Post by: Robm78 on November 21, 2017, 09:16:30 AM
I just read that if the gate is Weyerhauser, you have to pay $200+ per person to drive......Ok....that just sucks but hey, I'll walk....nope, thats $50!!!!!
Post by: 92xj on November 21, 2017, 09:17:45 AM
Post by: Robm78 on November 21, 2017, 09:30:37 AM
How much would you charge to let the public walk and drive on your private property?
Wow...you condone this? Well, I dont even have a response for you.
Post by: X-Force on November 21, 2017, 09:32:47 AM
How much would you charge to let the public walk and drive on your private property?
Wow...you condone this? Well, I dont even have a response for you.
:chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on November 21, 2017, 09:33:11 AM
The majority of private timberland in Washington now requires an access fee.
Post by: Sandberm on November 21, 2017, 09:35:57 AM
I put a question mark after the "their" for a reason.
Question. Do the timber companies own this land or do they lease it from the public?
Post by: grundy53 on November 21, 2017, 09:38:33 AM
I'm just gonna come out and say it, I'm relatively new to hunting, live in eastern Wa. and had no idea until I joined this message board that timber companies charged money to hunt on their? land.They own it.
I put a question mark after the "their" for a reason.
Question. Do the timber companies own this land or do they lease it from the public?
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: Gringo31 on November 21, 2017, 09:42:17 AM
They should be thankful for the opportunity......if it remains one.
Post by: 92xj on November 21, 2017, 09:53:23 AM
How much would you charge to let the public walk and drive on your private property?
Wow...you condone this? Well, I dont even have a response for you.
Figured after your "rant", that would be your response.
Go buy your own land and never worry about buying access to others.
Post by: Curly on November 21, 2017, 09:57:05 AM
Post by: h20hunter on November 21, 2017, 10:02:03 AM
How much would you charge to let the public walk and drive on your private property?
Wow...you condone this? Well, I dont even have a response for you.
Don't hunt it. Simple as that. Look into leasing fees elswhere. Yes, they do get tax breaks but frankly, it's as cheap of access as you will ever find.
Post by: jackelope on November 21, 2017, 10:04:43 AM
It's private property.....
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 21, 2017, 10:04:59 AM
Post by: jackelope on November 21, 2017, 10:09:01 AM
A couple hundred bucks to drive in doesn't seem like a bad deal to me, especially if you look into prices of leasing your own place or buying your own private property. $50 to walk in is a bargain!
Post by: cougforester on November 21, 2017, 10:17:26 AM
They own the land, but they do get huge tax breaks. :twocents:
And?
Post by: Curly on November 21, 2017, 10:21:25 AM
They own the land, but they do get huge tax breaks. :twocents:
And?
And what? :dunno:
Post by: bobcat on November 21, 2017, 10:24:57 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on November 21, 2017, 10:27:02 AM
Post by: bobcat on November 21, 2017, 10:31:28 AM
The public does still have access, just for a small fee. I don't see the issue. If you own your own land, you get to make the rules. :dunno:
Well, not exactly true. It's debatable whether the fee is "small," but besides that, the only people that get access are those who are online with a high speed internet connection at the designated time, and are able to purchase a permit before they are all gone, which sometimes is only about 3 minutes.
Post by: cougforester on November 21, 2017, 10:34:04 AM
They own the land, but they do get huge tax breaks. :twocents:
And?
And what? :dunno:
The designated forest land tax program has no implications on public access. Many thousands of landowners across the state utilize the same program (albeit on a smaller scale), and they do not have to grant access to others. Sounds like you already many know this, just wanted to offer more info for others to better understand the issue! :)
Post by: Woodchuck on November 21, 2017, 10:38:45 AM
How would you like it if other people dictated to you what you can and can't do with your property?I don't see the issue. If you own your own land, you get to make the rules. :dunno:
Well, not exactly true. It's debatable whether the fee is "small," but besides that, the only people that get access are those who are online with a high speed internet connection at the designated time, and are able to purchase a permit before they are all gone, which sometimes is only about 3 minutes.
Post by: Gringo31 on November 21, 2017, 10:44:03 AM
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 21, 2017, 10:49:40 AM
..
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 21, 2017, 10:52:15 AM
The public does still have access, just for a small fee. I don't see the issue. If you own your own land, you get to make the rules. :dunno:
Well, not exactly true. It's debatable whether the fee is "small," but besides that, the only people that get access are those who are online with a high speed internet connection at the designated time, and are able to purchase a permit before they are all gone, which sometimes is only about 3 minutes.
I know it is a sore subject for those of us that have been around long enough to remember how it was.
It is debatable on what is a small fee, but something to consider is that spread it out over the lenght of the permit and it is less than what a lot of pepole pay for a cup of coffee a day.
Some areas include camping at no extra charge and firewood cutting as well.
The quick selling out of areas like Vail is a pain, but I think it fair to say, those who do not have high speed internet probably know someone who does. Is it a pain...yes, but certainly doable.
As has been said, at least there is the opportunity to get out in the timberlands, it could certainly be shut down with no chance to access it, and no recourse to fight it.
Think places like Capitol Forrest are over run now...??
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 21, 2017, 10:52:26 AM
Post by: Hot Lunch on November 25, 2017, 04:42:54 PM
Post by: cem3434 on November 25, 2017, 05:02:54 PM
They own the land, but they do get huge tax breaks. :twocents:
True, but the original purchase agreements also stated that Weyco would provide access to the public since the state was selling them public land for $1 per acre and giving them massive tax credits. Weyco managed the property for years on behalf of the state and got the majority of the timber proceeds for managing the state land. They then in turn took the profit, bought the property and agreed to huge tax breaks as part of always allowing public access. Im torn because there are things to like and hate about pay to play land, but I firmly believe that the state should not continue to honor the tax breaks.....and I'm a Weyco shareholder.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 25, 2017, 06:14:19 PM
Post by: PolarBear on November 25, 2017, 06:16:46 PM
I'll never understand why people complain about this. It's private property. At least they give you the option to access it at all. Am I missing something? Man...what would it be like if they didn't give access at all?:yeah:
It's private property.....
Post by: PolarBear on November 25, 2017, 06:18:18 PM
Not surprised. $200 is a steal for access to private land for the season.Yeah, I paid $350 for a Vail key. This is my last year though due to the amount of *censored*es and poaching.
Post by: Alchase on November 25, 2017, 06:36:41 PM
The two units are about the size from the Columbia to the National Park boundary and from the coast to Hood canal.
Post by: hunter399 on November 25, 2017, 07:02:18 PM
Post by: Fullabull on November 26, 2017, 09:44:50 PM
Post by: Matth on November 27, 2017, 09:37:21 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 27, 2017, 05:45:35 PM
How would you like it if other people dictated to you what you can and can't do with your property?I don't see the issue. If you own your own land, you get to make the rules. :dunno:
Well, not exactly true. It's debatable whether the fee is "small," but besides that, the only people that get access are those who are online with a high speed internet connection at the designated time, and are able to purchase a permit before they are all gone, which sometimes is only about 3 minutes.
The government already dictates what a person can and can't do with their property...........all properties.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on November 27, 2017, 06:09:14 PM
Not surprised. $200 is a steal for access to private land for the season.Yeah, I paid $350 for a Vail key. This is my last year though due to the amount of *censored*es and poaching.
Not such a steal when you want to hunt one unit for deer and another for elk. Hard enough for most to buy one permit let alone two and when they buy two permits, that just means there are less people hunting when there is a limit on the # of permits sold. With less people hunting, it actually interfere's with WDF&G's management. Maybe someone bought a permit for an area they want to hunt muzzleloader early season in, and still have a tag but that unit isn't open for late season? They still have a license and tag, but are shut out of late season for lack of an access permit.
Personally, I wouldn't mind the fee if I could hunt any Weyerhauser property with a permit. But being locked into one unit really isn't worth it from what I see. I've bought the permit for two years, but next year I am saving the money and hunting out of state. That's two licenses and deer and elk tags (my son and I) Washington won't be selling next year, plus draw fees.
Post by: Stein on November 27, 2017, 07:09:47 PM
Not surprised. $200 is a steal for access to private land for the season.Yeah, I paid $350 for a Vail key. This is my last year though due to the amount of *censored*es and poaching.
Not such a steal when you want to hunt one unit for deer and another for elk. Hard enough for most to buy one permit let alone two and when they buy two permits, that just means there are less people hunting when there is a limit on the # of permits sold. With less people hunting, it actually interfere's with WDF&G's management. Maybe someone bought a permit for an area they want to hunt muzzleloader early season in, and still have a tag but that unit isn't open for late season? They still have a license and tag, but are shut out of late season for lack of an access permit.
Personally, I wouldn't mind the fee if I could hunt any Weyerhauser property with a permit. But being locked into one unit really isn't worth it from what I see. I've bought the permit for two years, but next year I am saving the money and hunting out of state. That's two licenses and deer and elk tags (my son and I) Washington won't be selling next year, plus draw fees.
:yeah: I came to the same conclusion, save the money and hunt in MT, ID or WY. For what I pay, I can have much better opportunities.
For what it is worth, farmers have tax breaks on their land as well as churches and a host of others that don't allow free access for recreation. I get why people are upset for having to pay not insignificant amounts for what used to be free, but it is what it is.
Post by: Axle on November 27, 2017, 07:10:35 PM
Post by: treefarmer on November 27, 2017, 07:41:20 PM
Post by: nocken n notchen on November 27, 2017, 07:54:39 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 28, 2017, 07:30:21 AM
i still think its a bunch of *censored* they own the trees not the land the land is own bye us the united states all tax payers pay for this now we all bitch know when they know they can get more cash out of us its kind of how the tribes feel im sure and know its hitting all us if we dont watch it it will be all sold to china to pay the goverments det and so called private land owners cant pay the workers them enough but give them keys to hunt so called private land when we got to walk threw the gates or ride us the tax payers and yes there paying there *censored* too but come on make it all the same you hike in ten miles and it takes 20min or so to drive not stoping at all clear cuts in some spots lookig for some hoof disease elk that nobody can fix is *censored* we talk to some private land owner workers they said there not coming back to hunt im glad to here that thay dont have generation of all the hard hitting hunters that hunted in them woods lot of us do so f.... ill bye one permit and walk in from the top in to a walk in only thats been that way for a while and they cant find elk rd hunters but we all been paying lets fix the elk cancer and forget whos getting rich and fix the proublem ive heard wfg screwed up again and destroyed 10 more or so percent of the elk in st helens then they wanted its less then 70 precent know and was a good stack of elk im sure they will blame it on winter kill and hoof disease maybe to much on my mind
HUH !
Post by: GoldenRing270 on November 28, 2017, 08:46:53 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on November 28, 2017, 08:49:35 AM
Quote
HUH !
:chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on November 28, 2017, 08:50:23 AM
This is why we need to fight to keep all the public land we currently have out of private hands and acquire as much new public land as possible. Folks may disagree with how the forest service manages the land but hunting and fishing opportunities are free and endless and if the land were privately managed the focus would be about removing resources to make money. Hunting and fishing opportunities would be expensive or disappear altogether. If the national forest were transferred to the state they would not have enough money to manage it and they would slowly sell it off to the private sector. Sportsman need to do everything in their power to prevent this from happening.
THIS!!!!
Post by: jackmaster on November 28, 2017, 08:55:29 AM
I'll never understand why people complain about this. It's private property. At least they give you the option to access it at all. Am I missing something? Man...what would it be like if they didn't give access at all?:yeah: :yeah: ITS PRIVATE LAND!! If you have a few hundred acres that holds some quality hunting let us all know so we can come hunt for free, since you against charging a fee and all :tup:
It's private property.....
Post by: SeatoSummit88 on November 28, 2017, 09:49:42 AM
Post by: b0bbyg on November 28, 2017, 09:54:07 AM
i still think its a bunch of *censored* they own the trees not the land the land is own bye us the united states all tax payers pay for this now we all bitch know when they know they can get more cash out of us its kind of how the tribes feel im sure and know its hitting all us if we dont watch it it will be all sold to china to pay the goverments det and so called private land owners cant pay the workers them enough but give them keys to hunt so called private land when we got to walk threw the gates or ride us the tax payers and yes there paying there *censored* too but come on make it all the same you hike in ten miles and it takes 20min or so to drive not stoping at all clear cuts in some spots lookig for some hoof disease elk that nobody can fix is *censored* we talk to some private land owner workers they said there not coming back to hunt im glad to here that thay dont have generation of all the hard hitting hunters that hunted in them woods lot of us do so f.... ill bye one permit and walk in from the top in to a walk in only thats been that way for a while and they cant find elk rd hunters but we all been paying lets fix the elk cancer and forget whos getting rich and fix the proublem ive heard wfg screwed up again and destroyed 10 more or so percent of the elk in st helens then they wanted its less then 70 precent know and was a good stack of elk im sure they will blame it on winter kill and hoof disease maybe to much on my mind
HUH !
That hurt my head just trying to read it!
Wish Cryder would step in and respond.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 28, 2017, 09:57:19 AM
i still think its a bunch of *censored* they own the trees not the land the land is own bye us the united states all tax payers pay for this now we all bitch know when they know they can get more cash out of us its kind of how the tribes feel im sure and know its hitting all us if we dont watch it it will be all sold to china to pay the goverments det and so called private land owners cant pay the workers them enough but give them keys to hunt so called private land when we got to walk threw the gates or ride us the tax payers and yes there paying there *censored* too but come on make it all the same you hike in ten miles and it takes 20min or so to drive not stoping at all clear cuts in some spots lookig for some hoof disease elk that nobody can fix is *censored* we talk to some private land owner workers they said there not coming back to hunt im glad to here that thay dont have generation of all the hard hitting hunters that hunted in them woods lot of us do so f.... ill bye one permit and walk in from the top in to a walk in only thats been that way for a while and they cant find elk rd hunters but we all been paying lets fix the elk cancer and forget whos getting rich and fix the proublem ive heard wfg screwed up again and destroyed 10 more or so percent of the elk in st helens then they wanted its less then 70 precent know and was a good stack of elk im sure they will blame it on winter kill and hoof disease maybe to much on my mind
HUH !
That hurt my head just trying to read it!
Wish Cryder would step in and respond.
Or translate...
Post by: GodLovesUgly on November 28, 2017, 11:32:10 AM
To further this concept: I don't think it should be legal or acceptable for the State of Washington to condone PUBLIC property (be it lakes or forest lands) being landlocked PERIOD. There should ALWAYS be an easement access. Time and time again I see housing developments popping up and land-locking public parcels and completely shutting off access. It is BS for us to pay for those lands only to have them closed off to public access.
That's my rant.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 28, 2017, 11:36:32 AM
Post by: Curly on November 28, 2017, 11:51:39 AM
Did weyco stop harvesting and selling trees? Why should they loose their tax break? It's as simple as a land use fee, it off sets the cost of maintenance to their land caused by the RECREATIONAL users.
The gentlemen in the article said he was "forced" to by a tag because he drew a cow tag. I call BS, do your homework. It wasn't a secrete, it was posted in every hunting regs. Weyco even agreed to lengthen the purchase date to allow procrastinator and or half assed protestors who said they weren't gonna buy a permit purchase a pass.
The real problem here is keeping the access fee down. At $150 a year that's very affordable and breaks down to $12.50 per month. If users really cared about having a place to recreate, they would put their energy into making sure a long term deal between the state and weyco would get signed to keep the fee around the $150 mark and not turn into all land leases. The alternative is they close all their land to public access and nobody gets to hunt. Don't forget, they own almost the entire west side!
The tax break isn't for harvesting and selling trees. The reason for the tax break as outlined in state law is "so that present and future generations will enjoy the benefits which forest areas provide..." Here it is (again) http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=84.33.010 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=84.33.010) Raw materials is just one of those many listed benefits. Providing recreational spaces is another.
Why should the government give them--or any business--special treatment for operating a business as usual? You make and sell wigits so you automatically get a tax break? If the government and the legislature (and in this case the citizens of the state) voted in tax breaks special for you, it is because wigit-making has public benefits attached to it beyond what other businesses make and sell. In this case the "benefits which forest areas provide" are beyond growing and selling trees. Recreation is among those benefits, therefore a portion of the tax break compensates for recreational access. Charging the public to access the land while still enjoying the full tax benefit is no different that charging the state for wildlife habitat or for each logging job. If they just charged for vehicles, I could see a justification, but they are charging for all entry. Its simply Double-dipping.
P.S. the 5% excise tax on harvest only covers the property tax on the trees. It is inaccurate according to law to state that the excise tax replaces the property tax on the land. The above legislative link at the bottom.
Post by: GodLovesUgly on November 28, 2017, 01:49:08 PM
Post by: b0bbyg on November 28, 2017, 05:05:20 PM
In some cases it is a lot. Also, there are instances of public bodies of water that have become landlocked as well.I have seen a few small areas completely locked up by Weyerhaeuser, mostly in my areas they lock up the only short access to state and federal areas. You can still get to them but it requires mapping and lots of research to figure out the connecting areas for 2 areas I am familiar with.
Also, had to mention your user name cracked me up!
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 28, 2017, 05:51:42 PM
i still think its a bunch of *censored* they own the trees not the land the land is own bye us the united states all tax payers pay for this now we all bitch know when they know they can get more cash out of us its kind of how the tribes feel im sure and know its hitting all us if we dont watch it it will be all sold to china to pay the goverments det and so called private land owners cant pay the workers them enough but give them keys to hunt so called private land when we got to walk threw the gates or ride us the tax payers and yes there paying there *censored* too but come on make it all the same you hike in ten miles and it takes 20min or so to drive not stoping at all clear cuts in some spots lookig for some hoof disease elk that nobody can fix is *censored* we talk to some private land owner workers they said there not coming back to hunt im glad to here that thay dont have generation of all the hard hitting hunters that hunted in them woods lot of us do so f.... ill bye one permit and walk in from the top in to a walk in only thats been that way for a while and they cant find elk rd hunters but we all been paying lets fix the elk cancer and forget whos getting rich and fix the proublem ive heard wfg screwed up again and destroyed 10 more or so percent of the elk in st helens then they wanted its less then 70 precent know and was a good stack of elk im sure they will blame it on winter kill and hoof disease maybe to much on my mind
HUH !
That hurt my head just trying to read it!
Wish Cryder would step in and respond.
Mine too....
Post by: eastfork on December 19, 2017, 08:10:03 PM
Post by: Tbob on December 26, 2017, 03:46:38 PM
I actually like the idea of pay to play. Cuts down on the people who aren’t serious about being out there in the first place! I do feel bad for the folks that can’t afford the cost, but there is plenty of free access state and federal lands still out there..
Post by: Calvin Rayborn on December 29, 2017, 12:01:01 AM
Post by: Calvin Rayborn on December 29, 2017, 12:04:55 AM
They own the land, but they do get huge tax breaks. :twocents:- No kidding - All this land grabbing on the backs of Gov't corruption
Post by: Calvin Rayborn on December 29, 2017, 12:14:56 AM
Ridiculous - My old man barely knows how to google! Timber companies buncha sick elitists.The public does still have access, just for a small fee. I don't see the issue. If you own your own land, you get to make the rules. :dunno:
Well, not exactly true. It's debatable whether the fee is "small," but besides that, the only people that get access are those who are online with a high speed internet connection at the designated time, and are able to purchase a permit before they are all gone, which sometimes is only about 3 minutes.