Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Hilltop123 on November 24, 2017, 10:44:41 AM

Title: Annealing, who does it?
Post by: Hilltop123 on November 24, 2017, 10:44:41 AM: For the one's that do it, are finding your SD's shrinking? Are you finding that the results are repeatable? With so much BS flying around the interweb, it's hard to tell whats truth and what snake oil. Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Annealing, who does it?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 24, 2017, 11:07:28 AM: My group size is typically cut in half when I anneal vs not. So I anneal everytime. This is with large 338's though (338-378 / 338 Lapua) so likely doesn't apply to smaller calibers. ( But I'm not tracking # of reloads per cartridge so if sorting like that may not see as much change)

My SD doesn't change as much but fewer fliers. I get pretty good results with virgin brass which is softer and more consistent than my annealing.

I use a generic propane torch, hold brass in a long socket in my handheld makita drill and spin it over flame for just under 5 seconds ( use metronome ap on my phone) and drop in deep pan of water. You can see the top 1/4th of the brass change luster.

I've been getting better SD's by not tumbling brass, just wipe off. I do brush inside neck with a spinning brush (lyman prep station) with a lil steel wool on it to remove excess carbon ( some is good). Also stuff steel wool into end of a socket in drill and hold case against that to burnish end after trimming, and chamfering in and out.

I like the clean shiny look of pin tumbling but definitely want to anneal if doing that.

After annealing I blow out with air, put on cookie sheet with towel at 125 degrees in oven ( shut off oven when it reaches 125 and then put tray in).

Everyone has their own goal, I'm shooting for 1" groups at 300 yards, 3" groups at 500 with 300 grain bullets. Sometimes get there without sorting bullets or brass as I haven't had time for that lately.
Title: Re: Annealing, who does it?
Post by: Hilltop123 on November 24, 2017, 11:35:07 AM: Quote from: Magnum_Willys on November 24, 2017, 11:07:28 AM
My group size is typically cut in half when I anneal vs not. So I anneal everytime. This is with large 338's though (338-378 / 338 Lapua) so likely doesn't apply to smaller calibers. ( But I'm not tracking # of reloads per cartridge so if sorting like that may not see as much change)

My SD doesn't change as much but fewer fliers. I get pretty good results with virgin brass which is softer and more consistent than my annealing.

I use a generic propane torch, hold brass in a long socket in my handheld makita drill and spin it over flame for just under 5 seconds ( use metronome ap on my phone) and drop in deep pan of water. You can see the top 1/4th of the brass change luster.

I've been getting better SD's by not tumbling brass, just wipe off. I do brush inside neck with a spinning brush (lyman prep station) with a lil steel wool on it to remove excess carbon ( some is good). Also stuff steel wool into end of a socket in drill and hold case against that to burnish end after trimming, and chamfering in and out.

I like the clean shiny look of pin tumbling but definitely want to anneal if doing that.

After annealing I blow out with air, put on cookie sheet with towel at 125 degrees in oven ( shut off oven when it reaches 125 and then put tray in).

Everyone has their own goal, I'm shooting for 1" groups at 300 yards, 3" groups at 500 with 300 grain bullets. Sometimes get there without sorting bullets or brass as I haven't had time for that lately.

The reason I'm asking is, I have a load that is shooting nice, I was just wanting to tighten my vertical dispersion.
(Think that's the correct term). My current SD's are running +/- 13, and was wondering if annealing would help this? By making neck tension more consistent. The attached photo, is of a 500 yard - 5 shot group, I managed to get done one day when the wind wasn't blowing.
Title: Re: Annealing, who does it?
Post by: jrebel on November 24, 2017, 11:40:46 AM: Tagging....I have also wondered this.

I have never annealed and have had extremely long life with all my brass. I haven't noticed an accuracy problem and with my long range 6.5 creedmore (almost max load) will shoot better than I can. If I do my part it will shoot sub 1" at 300 yards. I am thinking of building a larger caliber rifle....so maybe annealing is in my future based research and this thread.

:tup:
Title: Re: Annealing, who does it?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 24, 2017, 11:53:13 AM: Quote from: Hilltop123 on November 24, 2017, 11:35:07 AM
Quote from: Magnum_Willys on November 24, 2017, 11:07:28 AM
My group size is typically cut in half when I anneal vs not. So I anneal everytime. This is with large 338's though (338-378 / 338 Lapua) so likely doesn't apply to smaller calibers. ( But I'm not tracking # of reloads per cartridge so if sorting like that may not see as much change)

My SD doesn't change as much but fewer fliers. I get pretty good results with virgin brass which is softer and more consistent than my annealing.

I use a generic propane torch, hold brass in a long socket in my handheld makita drill and spin it over flame for just under 5 seconds ( use metronome ap on my phone) and drop in deep pan of water. You can see the top 1/4th of the brass change luster.

I've been getting better SD's by not tumbling brass, just wipe off. I do brush inside neck with a spinning brush (lyman prep station) with a lil steel wool on it to remove excess carbon ( some is good). Also stuff steel wool into end of a socket in drill and hold case against that to burnish end after trimming, and chamfering in and out.

I like the clean shiny look of pin tumbling but definitely want to anneal if doing that.

After annealing I blow out with air, put on cookie sheet with towel at 125 degrees in oven ( shut off oven when it reaches 125 and then put tray in).

Everyone has their own goal, I'm shooting for 1" groups at 300 yards, 3" groups at 500 with 300 grain bullets. Sometimes get there without sorting bullets or brass as I haven't had time for that lately.

The reason I'm asking is, I have a load that is shooting nice, I was just wanting to tighten my vertical dispersion.
(Think that's the correct term). My current SD's are running +/- 13, and was wondering if annealing would help this? By making neck tension more consistent. The attached photo, is of a 500 yard - 5 shot group, I managed to get done one day when the wind wasn't blowing.

Thats a great group. The vertical change due to a 12fps variation is only .45" at 500 yards with mine so I'm looking at something other than SD for vertical dispersion ( probably me !) If I see just vertical stringing I'm inclined to tweak load up or down .2-.3 grains and/or seating up or down .003 to see if anything changes. But with a sub 3" group at 500 I would need a perfect day to even think about it.
Title: Re: Annealing, who does it?
Post by: Jason on November 24, 2017, 12:03:30 PM: I use to get a lot of split necks before I started annealing my brass, especially since I like to run my loads as hot as my groups allow. I anneal everything after every second firing in rifle cartridges and have no issues and get twice or three times the brass life.
Title: Re: Annealing, who does it?
Post by: b23 on November 24, 2017, 12:21:45 PM: I just had this discussion with a gunsmith friend of mine last week. I'm not a competitive benchrest shooter where ever thou of an inch matters and I've never had a problem with necks cracking or splitting. Also, I keep all my brass rotated equally the same, meaning I don't ever mix up my brass, if I reload five or ten or however many rounds, they all will have been reloaded the same amount of times. I keep track of my brass and how many times it's been reloaded and won't mix in reloads that have been shot/reloaded 2 times with ones that have been shot/reloaded more than that same number of times. I think keeping your reloads sorted by how many times the brass has been shot has a definite affect on things.

Anneal if a person wants to but I'm not sure it's all that important to the vast majority and I think there are other areas that will yield better gains.
Title: Re: Annealing, who does it?
Post by: CaNINE on November 24, 2017, 12:22:23 PM: I've learned that even neck tension is pretty critical to consistent precision. I anneal after every firing.
Title: Re: Annealing, who does it?
Post by: AWS on November 24, 2017, 04:55:53 PM: I do it when forming some radicle brass, 6.5 Sauer from 9.3x72 and 222 Rem from 223. I do a lot wildcatting and anneal when I see necks starting to crack.
Title: Re: Annealing, who does it?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 24, 2017, 05:05:23 PM: Don't forget about chamber temperature. If I'm only waiting a couple minutes between shots then if I leave a round in the chamber more than half a minute while I get my sight picture perfect I'm liable to send a flier several inches high from the ammo heating up. Gotta either let chamber cool or get all set before closing bolt just before shooting. Using temp sensitive powders makes it worse.

This was today - let that 5th shot set in the chamber too long and got a flier 3" high - knew it should of pulled it out and put a cold one in.