Post by: chukar hunter on December 01, 2017, 03:34:55 PM
More and more the talk these days of my hunting group is getting into long range rifles. I know the information is available on the interweb on what you should by, how much you should spend, ect, but honestly all of the opinions are mind blowing and even after the purchase of a multi-thousand set-up, how to even operate the gun effectively. Are their any local(westside) gun ranges or clubs that offer long range shooting classes? I'd even go eastside if there was a weekend class of some sort. I'd like to explore as much information as possible before making the upfront investment, just to find out that it's not what I want or need.
I'm not a self proclaimed long range hunter and would rather shoot an animal with my bow at 20 yards all day long. That said, I've had a few in state and out of state experiences this year alone, that if I had a firearm capable (and I was trained) I could have put some real life time trophies on the ground. Shots out to 5 and 600 yards that I didn't feel comfortable with my current setup or training.
Any advice on where to start and training that may be available? Willing to put in the work to get proficient at these distances.
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on December 01, 2017, 04:02:34 PM
Post by: h20hunter on December 01, 2017, 04:09:09 PM
I've been meaning to ask Travis....last year they did a class in Wenatchee. 2018?
Post by: KFhunter on December 01, 2017, 04:13:53 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 01, 2017, 04:25:39 PM
There's a slew of factory rifles even on the lower end of the cost spectrum that are well capable at the distances you mentioned with factory fodder to boot.
A class would cost you more than the basic set up. It's a simple concept Mil's or MOA, your choice. A little math and crap gets shot and dies. Simple.
People way over think the shooting long stuff. 600 yards is a chip shot.
Post by: GoldenRing270 on December 01, 2017, 05:34:25 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 01, 2017, 06:44:23 PM
Shooting distance is simply a little math. Allot of game gets killed every year at distance. This isn't a ethics post.
Post by: KFhunter on December 01, 2017, 06:51:13 PM
Did I mention a bench or steel plate for that matter?
Shooting distance is simply a little math. Aloft of game gets killed every year at distance. This isn't a ethics post.
Correct, unethical shots can happen at any distance with any tool be it archery, off the rack guns or full custom rigs...it's all situational, shooter talent, quality of gear, and cooperation of the animal being shot.
back on track now, a guy wants to learn how to shoot. A class would be a good way to do that if he doesn't know someone with some basics, or he can go it alone.
I guarantee with a good class (he seems willing to spend the coin) he'll accelerate his learning curve tremendously, and develop less bad habits.
Post by: h20hunter on December 01, 2017, 06:59:13 PM
Post by: GoldenRing270 on December 01, 2017, 07:11:23 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on December 01, 2017, 07:21:18 PM
I can do math. A class is not about that. A class is about hands on shooting instruction. A class is about getting together with like minded individuals about a shared interest. A class is about making some connections and learning some things Google won't teach you. Provide some input or don't. Derail or for lack of a better term trash the thread or belittle the OP for wanting to better themselves and I'll send you packing. Clear enough?sorry sir but the class will most def. start with math and how to do it quickly with formulas so it can be done before any changes are likely to happen,Like wind,direction.movement etc.Then on to how to hold,breath,setup rifle.getting acquainted with trigger,positions.learning how to read wind at distances from terrain................meeting people like yourself,,,,,,,,,,,,,,etc etc etc.it is no quick meet and greet go shoot done. :tup:
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on December 01, 2017, 07:26:14 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 01, 2017, 07:28:47 PM
Shooting at distance is all math! Your hold and breaking the shot is the same at 600 is it is at 100. You just need to do the math. Drop and windage. Math, math math.
Post by: Oh Mah on December 01, 2017, 07:29:55 PM
All this said i would love to get groups together in diff. areas of the members of this site and compete against the other groups.I was thinking just yesterday that it would be awesome to have a long range thread on this forum for this very reason.
Post by: h20hunter on December 01, 2017, 07:33:18 PM
Post by: JDHasty on December 01, 2017, 09:16:53 PM
Way back when I was a kid there was an outfitter in Wyoming who used to say that eastern varmint shooters were the hunters he trusted most at long range shooting. Les Bowman is his name and basically what he had to say was that varmint shooters knew their limitations better, more often than accomplished western big game hunters and almost invariably would either drop down on their butt and get solid using their knees, find something to put a glove or their pack on for a rest or would look for a location to fire prone. Wherein almost all others were ready to shoot offhand at distant animals. Varmint shooters also were experienced in doping wind under FIELD conditions and most importantly had learned patience. Not rushing the shot when it comes to shooting live game.
Another old timer, Bob Milek, in a personal conversation added that varmint shooters knew their limit in the field better than most all others. And respected their limitations.
I might add that team shooting off a solid bench in the field gives you the advantage of observing the flight of bullets by watching the shock wave when spotting from behind the gun. Hundreds and hundreds of bullets, and the shooter gets the experience of having held rock solid, held off just so or having dialed in the perfect shot and then missed - sometimes by a wide margin and analyzing how the bullet did not land where he could have sworn it would.
It also schools a man on what loading precision ammo is all about.
I will add this, even though it is not as applicable to long range shooting as it is for all field shooting, "walking varmint shooting" teaches a man to drop to sitting really efficiently, to spot a location that offers a solid resting position quickly, and if he is shooting prairie dogs wherein 500 to a thousand offhand or rested shots in a day are not out of the question, by the time you have been doing it for a few days you get so sharp that "your rifle becomes a part of you."
I have shot high power, position, rifle silhouette and other games well enough to have trophies sitting at mom's house and can say unequivocally that in my experience there is nothing that is as good at making a guy good at every aspect of long range field shooting as varmint shooting will. And in the process it teaches you to use your binocular and spotting scope the way you need to if you are going to reliably find game in the field.
Post by: mountainman on December 01, 2017, 09:43:31 PM
Post by: mountainman on December 01, 2017, 09:44:23 PM
Get into varmint shooting and it will provide you with the knowledge of not only shooting, but spotting game at range.Bob was a good man👍
Way back when I was a kid there was an outfitter in Wyoming who used to say that eastern varmint shooters were the hunters he trusted most at long range shooting. Les Bowman is his name and basically what he had to say was that varmint shooters knew their limitations better, more often than accomplished western big game hunters and almost invariably would either drop down on their butt and get solid using their knees, find something to put a glove or their pack on for a rest or would look for a location to fire prone. Wherein almost all others were ready to shoot offhand at distant animals. Varmint shooters also were experienced in doping wind under FIELD conditions and most importantly had learned patience. Not rushing the shot when it comes to shooting live game.
Another old timer, Bob Milek, in a personal conversation added that varmint shooters knew their limit in the field better than most all others. And respected their limitations.
I might add that team shooting off a solid bench in the field gives you the advantage of observing the flight of bullets by watching the shock wave when spotting from behind the gun. Hundreds and hundreds of bullets, and the shooter gets the experience of having held rock solid, held off just so or having dialed in the perfect shot and then missed - sometimes by a wide margin and analyzing how the bullet did not land where he could have sworn it would.
It also schools a man on what loading precision ammo is all about.
I will add this, even though it is not as applicable to long range shooting as it is for all field shooting, "walking varmint shooting" teaches a man to drop to sitting really efficiently, to spot a location that offers a solid resting position quickly, and if he is shooting prairie dogs wherein 500 to a thousand offhand or rested shots in a day are not out of the question, by the time you have been doing it for a few days you get so sharp that "your rifle becomes a part of you."
I have shot high power, position, rifle silhouette and other games well enough to have trophies sitting at mom's house and can say unequivocally that in my experience there is nothing that is as good at making a guy good at every aspect of long range field shooting as varmint shooting will. And in the process it teaches you to use your binocular and spotting scope the way you need to if you are going to reliably find game in the field.
Post by: The scout on December 01, 2017, 10:16:36 PM
Post by: mountainman on December 01, 2017, 10:37:05 PM
Maybe mountanman kid will give you a lesson he is the best shot I have ever seentaught him everything he knows 👍lol!
Seriously, Jr. Is the best shot I know!
Post by: JDHasty on December 01, 2017, 11:35:16 PM
I have taught classes several times. They were designed and formatted for the average hunter, bringing personal, hunting weight rifles, hunting powered scopes. 2 days classroom (for the "math" and to evaluate general skill and comprehension). Day 3 to the field. All were able to place first shot in a deer kill zone area at 600 yards by days end. Some progressed quickly, others took longer. All would agree, the "curve" was less then to research, read, research and read some more as opposed to 3 days of on-hand. Most reported back after hunting season ended..most shots were around 200 yards ☺
I totally endorse the classes as a way to make the learning curve that I lived assume exponential form and get you up to proficiency in long range shooting a lot faster than I did.
Where I was going is that you have to put what you learned into practice in order for it to take hold. You are going to be sharp at the end of the class, but then how do you make that experience a permanent part of your hunting going forward?
Also, how are you going to learn to drop on your butt or spot a solid resting position, get solid and on target and get a shot off IN THE FIELD?
I used to help a guy that took candidates who were in the Patrol Academy and were having trouble qualifying with their side arm get qualified... and keep a job they had, or get a job, where someone will be trying to kill them some day.
That is what I focused on when I said, over, and over, and over, and over: I can get you to the point that you can qualify, but I hope that is not the goal you leave here with. After qualifying you MUST stick with this routine until it becomes "routine." And also expand on what I have taught you with your side arm so that you can put what you learned from me into practice under field conditions.
And then a year later they were back. And although I got paid handsomely the first time, and I was getting paid handsomely again... I felt like: Gee, I don't know if this is something I want to be a part of.
These individuals had an ammunition allowance and paid range time, but lacked the something (interest) that would make it fun enough that they would make that aspect of a young LEO's career a priority. They were focused on other things, usually the job they ultimately wanted. But it is hard to perform in the ultimate position of your dreams if you are dead, and for a young LEO w/o field skills... you do the math. I was teaching them how to shoot under controlled conditions on a range. Tey left very good at that, but...???
Perhaps I digress, but I did so to make a point. To become one with a firearm IN THE FIELD you have to spend a LOT of time shooting it IN THE FIELD and to become proficient in the field at live game you have to spend a LOT of time in the field hunting and if you want to become one with your firearm in the field shooting game at long range... you do the math. Big game seasons are short and few shots are taken and few animals are spotted if you are not a trophy hunter passing up a lot of lesser game.
Fortunately for a guy that wants to be a proficient long range hunter the desire is normally there, where it gets dicey is in the commitment to become good enough at finding rockchuck colonies or prairie dog towns is not strong enough that they quit before they can depend on budgeting time to go on a shoot and expect to put their skills into practice.
Where I am going with this is: I totally endorse taking classes or of self teaching long range shooting. I wholly and unreservedly endorse any hunter wanting to get better and extend their range in the field. I agree that skill development, mathematics and range practice is valuable, but all of the foregoing needs to be put into practice in the field and it can be frustrating when you cannot find game that you can shoot hundreds of rounds at and I am going to help you and other varmint shooters are going to help you, but we are not going to take you to our shooting spots. That is unless you meet a guy that has lost his varmint shooting partner and takes you under his wing.
I am not trying to throw a wet blanket on your aspirations, not at all. But I am being a realist. My Bridget gets a thorough schooling on how lucky she is to go varmint shooting... and not be spending the weekend looking for a place that has chucks to shoot. Unless you are similarly blessed you are going to have to push through the frustration and keep at it until you develop the skill to locate colonies. That means personal skills in talking to people as well as skill in knowing where to start looking. And this practice in developing those skills also pays dividends in big game hunting. So it is valuable too.
Post by: JDHasty on December 02, 2017, 12:18:00 AM
Get into varmint shooting and it will provide you with the knowledge of not only shooting, but spotting game at range.Bob was a good man
Way back when I was a kid there was an outfitter in Wyoming who used to say that eastern varmint shooters were the hunters he trusted most at long range shooting. Les Bowman is his name and basically what he had to say was that varmint shooters knew their limitations better, more often than accomplished western big game hunters and almost invariably would either drop down on their butt and get solid using their knees, find something to put a glove or their pack on for a rest or would look for a location to fire prone. Wherein almost all others were ready to shoot offhand at distant animals. Varmint shooters also were experienced in doping wind under FIELD conditions and most importantly had learned patience. Not rushing the shot when it comes to shooting live game.
Another old timer, Bob Milek, in a personal conversation added that varmint shooters knew their limit in the field better than most all others. And respected their limitations.
I might add that team shooting off a solid bench in the field gives you the advantage of observing the flight of bullets by watching the shock wave when spotting from behind the gun. Hundreds and hundreds of bullets, and the shooter gets the experience of having held rock solid, held off just so or having dialed in the perfect shot and then missed - sometimes by a wide margin and analyzing how the bullet did not land where he could have sworn it would.
It also schools a man on what loading precision ammo is all about.
I will add this, even though it is not as applicable to long range shooting as it is for all field shooting, "walking varmint shooting" teaches a man to drop to sitting really efficiently, to spot a location that offers a solid resting position quickly, and if he is shooting prairie dogs wherein 500 to a thousand offhand or rested shots in a day are not out of the question, by the time you have been doing it for a few days you get so sharp that "your rifle becomes a part of you."
I have shot high power, position, rifle silhouette and other games well enough to have trophies sitting at mom's house and can say unequivocally that in my experience there is nothing that is as good at making a guy good at every aspect of long range field shooting as varmint shooting will. And in the process it teaches you to use your binocular and spotting scope the way you need to if you are going to reliably find game in the field.
Indeed. I met him in The Sportsman in Livingston and then would see him at SHOT Shows when I was in the industry.
My grandfather kind of started the Livingston Sportsman's Club. He bought two traps and sunk them in concrete and would hook them with his wrecker and take them out to the Yellowstone River a couple evenings every week. He would also buy a half boxcar of clay targets and cases of shotgun shells just get reimbursement for the cost of shotgun shells and targets. That kind of made me a minor celebrity when I went out to the gun club. Mike Venterino lived outside Livingston at that time, he still may. I still have a dozen of the wooden shotshell cases that the shells came in back in those days. There were hundreds of them in grandpa's basement when I was young,, if I had only known what they would be worth today.
I would corner Bob at the SHOT Show and tell him of my trials and tribulations w/my super 14 223 barrel and he would offer helpful hints. He was on "Team TC" and would take all the time in the world with me, kind of alluding, but not saying...".
The last time I saw him he asked me if that 223 Contender barrel was figured out yet? I told him: I'm over it, I gave it to one of my employees and bought an XP 100. Bob said: Now your cooking with gas! There was more to the conversation, but that is what I remember.
He liked to shoot prairie dogs and we went to Roundup/Musselshell to a friend of mine's ranch once for an afternoon. He had a scoped pistol and I had my model 65 in 218 Bee with a receiver sight on it and he thought it was really cool that a young guy with a Riimaki Sako in 222 and a Savage Anshutz in 222 Mag wanted to go screw around on a PD town with a model 65 for a day.
Post by: CaNINE on December 02, 2017, 06:54:59 AM
Elk of a lifetime 880 yards away and moving up the opposite ridge, he's going to pause for 5 seconds broadside just below the spine before he disappears forever. You look around and not a shooting bench or flat piece of ground to be found, forget prone and a bipod, you have 60 seconds to come up with a firing solution, establish a shooting position, determine if you have an ethical shot that you can execute and make the shot.
I'm not aware of anyone offering this type of training in Washington but if you're willing to go out of State I can offer some suggestions.
I took instruction from Non-Typical Outfitters in Wyoming and it was excellent. It's also just downright fun.
Post by: jackelope on December 02, 2017, 07:25:48 AM
Get into varmint shooting and it will provide you with the knowledge of not only shooting, but spotting game at range.Bob was a good man
Way back when I was a kid there was an outfitter in Wyoming who used to say that eastern varmint shooters were the hunters he trusted most at long range shooting. Les Bowman is his name and basically what he had to say was that varmint shooters knew their limitations better, more often than accomplished western big game hunters and almost invariably would either drop down on their butt and get solid using their knees, find something to put a glove or their pack on for a rest or would look for a location to fire prone. Wherein almost all others were ready to shoot offhand at distant animals. Varmint shooters also were experienced in doping wind under FIELD conditions and most importantly had learned patience. Not rushing the shot when it comes to shooting live game.
Another old timer, Bob Milek, in a personal conversation added that varmint shooters knew their limit in the field better than most all others. And respected their limitations.
I might add that team shooting off a solid bench in the field gives you the advantage of observing the flight of bullets by watching the shock wave when spotting from behind the gun. Hundreds and hundreds of bullets, and the shooter gets the experience of having held rock solid, held off just so or having dialed in the perfect shot and then missed - sometimes by a wide margin and analyzing how the bullet did not land where he could have sworn it would.
It also schools a man on what loading precision ammo is all about.
I will add this, even though it is not as applicable to long range shooting as it is for all field shooting, "walking varmint shooting" teaches a man to drop to sitting really efficiently, to spot a location that offers a solid resting position quickly, and if he is shooting prairie dogs wherein 500 to a thousand offhand or rested shots in a day are not out of the question, by the time you have been doing it for a few days you get so sharp that "your rifle becomes a part of you."
I have shot high power, position, rifle silhouette and other games well enough to have trophies sitting at mom's house and can say unequivocally that in my experience there is nothing that is as good at making a guy good at every aspect of long range field shooting as varmint shooting will. And in the process it teaches you to use your binocular and spotting scope the way you need to if you are going to reliably find game in the field.
Indeed. I met him in The Sportsman in Livingston and then would see him at SHOT Shows when I was in the industry.
My grandfather kind of started the Livingston Sportsman's Club. He bought two traps and sunk them in concrete and would hook them with his wrecker and take them out to the Yellowstone River a couple evenings every week. He would also buy a half boxcar of clay targets and cases of shotgun shells just get reimbursement for the cost of shotgun shells and targets. That kind of made me a minor celebrity when I went out to the gun club. Mike Venterino lived outside Livingston at that time, he still may. I still have a dozen of the wooden shotshell cases that the shells came in back in those days. There were hundreds of them in grandpa's basement when I was young,, if I had only known what they would be worth today.
I would corner Bob at the SHOT Show and tell him of my trials and tribulations w/my super 14 223 barrel and he would offer helpful hints. He was on "Team TC" and would take all the time in the world with me, kind of alluding, but not saying...".
The last time I saw him he asked me if that 223 Contender barrel was figured out yet? I told him: I'm over it, I gave it to one of my employees and bought an XP 100. Bob said: Now your cooking with gas! There was more to the conversation, but that is what I remember.
He liked to shoot prairie dogs and we went to Roundup/Musselshell to a friend of mine's ranch once for an afternoon. He had a scoped pistol and I had my model 65 in 218 Bee with a receiver sight on it and he thought it was really cool that a young guy with a Riimaki Sako in 222 and a Savage Anshutz in 222 Mag wanted to go screw around on a PD town with a model 65 for a day.
JD-
How long ago were you an instructor for the patrol? WSP?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: rbros on December 02, 2017, 07:39:07 AM
Post by: JDHasty on December 02, 2017, 09:46:08 AM
Get into varmint shooting and it will provide you with the knowledge of not only shooting, but spotting game at range.Bob was a good man
Way back when I was a kid there was an outfitter in Wyoming who used to say that eastern varmint shooters were the hunters he trusted most at long range shooting. Les Bowman is his name and basically what he had to say was that varmint shooters knew their limitations better, more often than accomplished western big game hunters and almost invariably would either drop down on their butt and get solid using their knees, find something to put a glove or their pack on for a rest or would look for a location to fire prone. Wherein almost all others were ready to shoot offhand at distant animals. Varmint shooters also were experienced in doping wind under FIELD conditions and most importantly had learned patience. Not rushing the shot when it comes to shooting live game.
Another old timer, Bob Milek, in a personal conversation added that varmint shooters knew their limit in the field better than most all others. And respected their limitations.
I might add that team shooting off a solid bench in the field gives you the advantage of observing the flight of bullets by watching the shock wave when spotting from behind the gun. Hundreds and hundreds of bullets, and the shooter gets the experience of having held rock solid, held off just so or having dialed in the perfect shot and then missed - sometimes by a wide margin and analyzing how the bullet did not land where he could have sworn it would.
It also schools a man on what loading precision ammo is all about.
I will add this, even though it is not as applicable to long range shooting as it is for all field shooting, "walking varmint shooting" teaches a man to drop to sitting really efficiently, to spot a location that offers a solid resting position quickly, and if he is shooting prairie dogs wherein 500 to a thousand offhand or rested shots in a day are not out of the question, by the time you have been doing it for a few days you get so sharp that "your rifle becomes a part of you."
I have shot high power, position, rifle silhouette and other games well enough to have trophies sitting at mom's house and can say unequivocally that in my experience there is nothing that is as good at making a guy good at every aspect of long range field shooting as varmint shooting will. And in the process it teaches you to use your binocular and spotting scope the way you need to if you are going to reliably find game in the field.
Indeed. I met him in The Sportsman in Livingston and then would see him at SHOT Shows when I was in the industry.
My grandfather kind of started the Livingston Sportsman's Club. He bought two traps and sunk them in concrete and would hook them with his wrecker and take them out to the Yellowstone River a couple evenings every week. He would also buy a half boxcar of clay targets and cases of shotgun shells just get reimbursement for the cost of shotgun shells and targets. That kind of made me a minor celebrity when I went out to the gun club. Mike Venterino lived outside Livingston at that time, he still may. I still have a dozen of the wooden shotshell cases that the shells came in back in those days. There were hundreds of them in grandpa's basement when I was young,, if I had only known what they would be worth today.
I would corner Bob at the SHOT Show and tell him of my trials and tribulations w/my super 14 223 barrel and he would offer helpful hints. He was on "Team TC" and would take all the time in the world with me, kind of alluding, but not saying...".
The last time I saw him he asked me if that 223 Contender barrel was figured out yet? I told him: I'm over it, I gave it to one of my employees and bought an XP 100. Bob said: Now your cooking with gas! There was more to the conversation, but that is what I remember.
He liked to shoot prairie dogs and we went to Roundup/Musselshell to a friend of mine's ranch once for an afternoon. He had a scoped pistol and I had my model 65 in 218 Bee with a receiver sight on it and he thought it was really cool that a young guy with a Riimaki Sako in 222 and a Savage Anshutz in 222 Mag wanted to go screw around on a PD town with a model 65 for a day.
JD-
How long ago were you an instructor for the patrol? WSP?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Never. I helped a guy that taught private classes and he had individuals come to him for help. He was very good at teaching people to shoot with a handgun and was good friends with a girlfriend I had at the time.
IIRC he was paying me ~$15/hour to help him out with the range session parts of his classes. Here is the craziest part of the whole experience of having known the guy... about fifteen years after that time he was charged with murder and plead out to IIRC felony manslaughter for killing a gal in Utah back in the 1960s.
I always considered the guy to be little strange, but he was nice enough and had a reputation for being a very good handgun instructor. He was in fact a darn good instructor, people left his classes shooting very well who could barely hit the target when they started his class.
Post by: yorketransport on December 02, 2017, 04:07:04 PM
If you’re a capable shot at short range already, just get out and practice under field conditions at longer ranges. It’s easy to get information overload and get discouraged or overwhelmed if you listen to too many different opinions. You don’t necessarily have to understand exactly why or how a vehicle functions to be a proficient driver and you don’t necessarily have to understand the physics behind external ballistics to be a proficient long range shooter.
Just go out and shoot in some different conditions until you know and understand your limitations. With a little practice you’ll be amazed at how big a 10” target seems at 5-600 yards. It’s all about real world practice.
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on December 04, 2017, 05:28:03 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on December 04, 2017, 06:04:56 PM
http://www.onlinehuntingauctions.com/Introduction-to-Long-Range-Shooting-Class-with-Allen-Ernst_i28644033
I donate two or three every year and hold the classes on a private range near Naches, WA. I've never had someone not be able to ring steel at a 1,000 yards by the end of the day, though not always with the rifles they bring.
I've had a couple guys who discovered they really had no business shooting at any living creature past 150 yards with the rifles they brought, but most guys are amazed at what they are able to reliably do at distances MUCH further than what they had originally thought possible. It's fun to watch the smiles on their faces light up once everything clicks and they start hammering steel at will.
DONATION:
This is a GREAT class to take before you buy a long-range rifle. Or, after you’ve bought one and want to learn how to make the most of it!
You are guaranteed to have a lot of fun and learn a lot during this one day course for up to four (4) people.
The objective of this course is to give the student shooter the knowledge and skill set to successfully hit targets out to the maximum effective range of their favorite big-game hunting rifle in real-world environmental conditions. This will be accomplished through classroom-type field instruction and then practical application on one of the nicest private long-range shooting ranges in the Pacific Northwest.
The morning will include a detailed discussion of the rifle components as a system, ballistics, ammo selection & preparation, proper cleaning, use of laser ballistic range-finder, wind estimation and effects, electronic ballistic applications and marksmanship concepts.
The remainder of the day will include equipment checks and hands-on real-world marksmanship practice. We will perform magneto chronographing during zero confirmation at 100 yards and then begin engaging steel targets in varying increments out to at least 1,000 yards (or much more!), environmental conditions and rifle/shooter capabilities pending. At the end of the course, the student should have a theoretical understanding of what it takes to reliably make first round hits at longer ranges. Most importantly, the shooters will understand their real-world maximum effective shooting range when using their favorite hunting rifle. The ethical hunter knows his capabilities and limitations!
Student shooters to provide their own rifle(s) and at least 50 rounds of ammo. Rifles should be chambered in big game hunting calibers and capable of shooting sub 1 MOA (1” groups or less) at one hundred yards. Preferably, scopes should have turrets with ¼ MOA (.25”) elevation and windage adjustments. Muzzle brakes and suppressors are welcome!!! Dates to be mutually acceptable during late Spring through early Summer of 2018
Post by: yorketransport on December 05, 2017, 06:48:54 AM
Post by: chukar hunter on December 05, 2017, 10:47:40 AM
Not to open a can of worms, but all classes seem to require an owner supplied rifle for the class. I do have a capable firearm(Remington model 700, 7mm mag), lethal to my current abilities ~ 350 yards. It's harvested +20 large game animals, though purchased in late 90's, I'm not sure it has the sub MOA capabilities so many new rifles tout. It's topped with a Leupold VX-II with dial scope. I'm a proficient shooter, took the rifle marksman award home, at every boy scout camp I attended!
With that said, how do I read through the fluff online and find a hunting rifle capable of hitting 1000 yds, while setting personal ethics limits out to 5 and 600 yards? I've perused Rbros, Gunwerks, Christiansen arms websites and while I drool at those rifles, I'm hard on equipment given the terrain and effort expelled on hunts. Will "sub par" rifles without the price tag seen above perform? I'm hard headed/loyal and will stick with the 7mm mag caliber, so what are the elements to consider when buying a long range rifle? Precision of barrel, muzzle break, ammunition, ect?
I don't reload yet, so would likely be utilizing factory made ammo. What would building vs buying an Rbros rifle save?
Thanks again for all of the information. I will be utilizing much of it and such great offers by many of the forum members on here.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 05, 2017, 11:57:20 AM
Post by: Bushcraft on December 05, 2017, 12:39:58 PM
Awesome information and what I was looking for! Thank you forum and for the efforts to keep on topic.
Not to open a can of worms, but all classes seem to require an owner supplied rifle for the class. I do have a capable firearm(Remington model 700, 7mm mag), lethal to my current abilities ~ 350 yards. It's harvested +20 large game animals, though purchased in late 90's, I'm not sure it has the sub MOA capabilities so many new rifles tout. It's topped with a Leupold VX-II with dial scope. I'm a proficient shooter, took the rifle marksman award home, at every boy scout camp I attended!
With that said, how do I read through the fluff online and find a hunting rifle capable of hitting 1000 yds, while setting personal ethics limits out to 5 and 600 yards? I've perused Rbros, Gunwerks, Christiansen arms websites and while I drool at those rifles, I'm hard on equipment given the terrain and effort expelled on hunts. Will "sub par" rifles without the price tag seen above perform? I'm hard headed/loyal and will stick with the 7mm mag caliber, so what are the elements to consider when buying a long range rifle? Precision of barrel, muzzle break, ammunition, ect?
I don't reload yet, so would likely be utilizing factory made ammo. What would building vs buying an Rbros rifle save?
Thanks again for all of the information. I will be utilizing much of it and such great offers by many of the forum members on here.
While you may luck out and get good accuracy with factory ammo, you'll invariably get better accuracy with the bullet you'd prefer to use if you reload and spend some time finding the sweet spot for your particular rifle. That goes for both factory and custom rifles.
As for rifles, you'll find that there is a rapidly diminishing return with respect to the cost vs. accuracy. For example, you could go buy a decent bone stock rifle, solid rings and bases, a good aftermarket stock and have a muzzle brake installed for about a quarter of the price of some of the rifles you mentioned. It will likely easily shoot under 1 MOA with it's favorite handload if you do your part. A few thousand dollars into a custom gun might only buy you another 1/4-1/2". That's all wasted money if you don't understand how to read or shoot in different environmental conditions.
So, at this stage of your interest level, I would encourage you to not dump $4-7K into a custom rifle. In my opinion cannonballing into the long range pool is a big mistake. Buy a good starter rifle OTC and put your money into very high quality glass (Nightforce, Schmidt & Bender, Kahles) and reloading gear and components...and classes. If after sending a few thousand rounds downrange you're still interested, then by all means step up to a an long hammer from RBros, Defensive Edge, Kirby Allen, etc.
There is a difference when you step up to a custom long range rig, but only if you know how to use it.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 05, 2017, 01:53:08 PM
Awesome information and what I was looking for! Thank you forum and for the efforts to keep on topic.
Not to open a can of worms, but all classes seem to require an owner supplied rifle for the class. I do have a capable firearm(Remington model 700, 7mm mag), lethal to my current abilities ~ 350 yards. It's harvested +20 large game animals, though purchased in late 90's, I'm not sure it has the sub MOA capabilities so many new rifles tout. It's topped with a Leupold VX-II with dial scope. I'm a proficient shooter, took the rifle marksman award home, at every boy scout camp I attended!
With that said, how do I read through the fluff online and find a hunting rifle capable of hitting 1000 yds, while setting personal ethics limits out to 5 and 600 yards? I've perused Rbros, Gunwerks, Christiansen arms websites and while I drool at those rifles, I'm hard on equipment given the terrain and effort expelled on hunts. Will "sub par" rifles without the price tag seen above perform? I'm hard headed/loyal and will stick with the 7mm mag caliber, so what are the elements to consider when buying a long range rifle? Precision of barrel, muzzle break, ammunition, ect?
I don't reload yet, so would likely be utilizing factory made ammo. What would building vs buying an Rbros rifle save?
Thanks again for all of the information. I will be utilizing much of it and such great offers by many of the forum members on here.
One of GUNWERKS favorite calibers is the 7mm or at least on TV it is..
I started with a store bought Savage Model 10 LE 308 and a Millett scope.
Post by: yorketransport on December 05, 2017, 09:50:24 PM
Awesome information and what I was looking for! Thank you forum and for the efforts to keep on topic.
Not to open a can of worms, but all classes seem to require an owner supplied rifle for the class. I do have a capable firearm(Remington model 700, 7mm mag), lethal to my current abilities ~ 350 yards. It's harvested +20 large game animals, though purchased in late 90's, I'm not sure it has the sub MOA capabilities so many new rifles tout. It's topped with a Leupold VX-II with dial scope. I'm a proficient shooter, took the rifle marksman award home, at every boy scout camp I attended!
With that said, how do I read through the fluff online and find a hunting rifle capable of hitting 1000 yds, while setting personal ethics limits out to 5 and 600 yards? I've perused Rbros, Gunwerks, Christiansen arms websites and while I drool at those rifles, I'm hard on equipment given the terrain and effort expelled on hunts. Will "sub par" rifles without the price tag seen above perform? I'm hard headed/loyal and will stick with the 7mm mag caliber, so what are the elements to consider when buying a long range rifle? Precision of barrel, muzzle break, ammunition, ect?
I don't reload yet, so would likely be utilizing factory made ammo. What would building vs buying an Rbros rifle save?
Thanks again for all of the information. I will be utilizing much of it and such great offers by many of the forum members on here.
The most accurate rifle I’ve ever shot or owned was a factory Savage LRPV in 22-250 with a Bushnell 4200 scope. The complete package cost me under $1300 and would put 5 shots into sub .25 MOA groups all day every day with groups in the .150” range when I had a good day. Don’t worry too much about the rifle. Likewise, you don’t need a $2000 optic. I’ve seen shooters make consistent hits beyond 1000 yards with everything from $250 Nikons to $5000 Hensoldts with my preference being for optics in the $1000-1500 range.
You could pick up a Savage in 7mm mag, throw a Leupold VX-3 on there and buy some quality ammo and do just fine shooting game to 600 yards for less than $1200. Take the money you saved one the rifle/scope combo and buy either ammo to practice with or a reloading press.
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on December 07, 2017, 05:10:30 PM
Post by: bigdub257 on December 07, 2017, 06:52:17 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on December 07, 2017, 07:10:10 PM
Tagging along and wondering if anyone has any thoughts or feedback regarding the Burris Eliminator scopes.
It's an overpriced gimmicky piece of garbage.
How's that for feedback? :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 07, 2017, 07:11:37 PM
Tagging along and wondering if anyone has any thoughts or feedback regarding the Burris Eliminator scopes.
Seems like an obvious progression from using rangefinder plus dial but idk just having a hard time liking it..... I've heard guys happy with it out to 700 yards though
Post by: bigdub257 on December 08, 2017, 06:22:55 PM