Post by: colockumelk on March 09, 2009, 05:15:43 PM
wildthing@dfw.wa.gov
Dear Wildlife Commission,
My name is:
My email address is:
I agree with the following letter that Mr. Aaron Blanchard has typed up. This needs to happen as soon as possible not later, as later will be too late for the Colockum elk herd. I am sending this to you to let you know that I support a Permit only system for the Colockum (GMU's 328 and 329) instead of the proposed "true spike" rule.
Dear Wildlife Commission,
My name is Aaron Blanchard and I represent a group known as Washington Sportsmen. Recently I attended the meeting that was held in Ellensburg, WA. First of all I would like to thank you for the time I was allowed to speak and I again thank you for taking the time to read this. The following are the facts of the situation. It is also exactly what I said at the meeting in Ellensburg. All of the following facts and statistics are from your website. They have been taken from harvest reports, game trend reports and also the studies done for the elk herd plans. I was also asked a question that I should have answered more thoroughly. At the end is the response to that question.
In the past 5 years the branch bull population in the Colockum has been absolutely decimated. Currently the branch bull to cow ratio is 5:100. In 2002 there were 391 branch bulls in the Colockum and as of 2007 there are only 116 branch bulls left. This is a decline of 70%. LET ME REITERATE THAT. That is a decline of 70%. That is a decline of 14% a year. If this trend continues by 2011 there wont be any branch bulls left in the Colockum.
You need to act now, now 3 years from now. You need to go to permit only now. The elk need a stimulus package worse than our country does. There are various reasons why the branch bull population has been decimated. They are poaching, tribal-hunting, and far too much road access. Some of these are out of your hands and others will take alot of time and resources to change. Time that the Colockum elk do not have. You need to control what you can which is spike recruitment. You have the power to make things happen now which is what you need to do.
The main problem with the Colockum elk herd is spike recruitment. In the Colockum the average harvest is 135 per GMU. In the Yakima herd the average spike harvest per GMU is only 57. The Colockum has a spike harvest average per GMU of almost 3 times that of the Yakima GMUs. 85% of all yearling bulls in the Colockum are killed every year. Only 15% of yearling bulls in the Colockum survive their first two years. In 2005 only 46 spikes made it through the hunting season in the entire Colockum.
The best course of action is to go to Permit Only now, not later. Do what is right even if it is unpopular. Sometimes the right choice isn't the popular choice. Often the popular opinion isn't always an ethical one. In any case during the surveys over the past year the public favored permit only over the "True Spike" proposition. So why did you not go to permit only like the public wanted? For those that oppose this what many people don't realize is that every year in the Colockum 300 or more spikes are harvested by hunters. If it were permit only this would mean 300 more spikes would survive to become branch antlered bulls every year. With special permit success rates being about 50% this would mean you could give out 600 branch bull permits in the Colockum every year instead of the 6 that were given out last year.
For the sake of the elk in the Colockum please do the right thing. True Spike might have been a good idea ten years ago but right now the True Spike concept would be too little and too late.
I was asked this question at the end of my speech. "Would I support the closure of all elk hunting in the Colockum for one year."
My answer was a definate yes. But under four conditions.
1.) It's closed to everyone for that year. Licensed-Hunters, Master-Hunters, and Tribal-Hunters. The courts have ruled that state regulation of tribal exercise of off-reservation hunting rights on open and unclaimed land is preempted by the Stevens Treaties, except where state regulation is necessary for conservation purposes While the Boldt Decision of February 12, 1974 did grant the tribes 50% of all the fish harvest it did reserve the state's right to
The courts have ruled that state regulation of tribal exercise of off-reservation hunting rights on open and unclaimed land is preempted by the Stevens Treaties, except where state regulation is necessary for conservation purposes
2.) After a year when you do open it up it goes to permit only for at least three years in order to moniter how well the herd is doing. If it goes back to the status quo we will be in the same boat we are in right now.
3.) When it is permit only you issue far more permits than are currently issued. Without the massive amounts of spikes being harvested every year, you would have these spikes living to become branch bulls so you could afford to give out far more branch bull permits. I have submitted an example of just how many permits you could give out. I came up with the numbers by this method. I took (Avg. # of spikes harvested in the Colockum 266.) And disributed those amongst the three user groups utilizing your distribution ratios. (Modern would get 170 of the 266.) I then multiplied that number by the average special permit success rate. (170 x 70%= 221) I then added the amount that is already given out to get my total of permits you could and should give out. (221 + 9 = 230) So for example if it goes to permit only you could give out 230 branch bull permits instead of 9 and still grow the herd. Below are the numbers. Obviously this is just an example of how many numbers could be possible. This is obviously not the exact number that would be used and I'm sure you guys would set your own numbers.
CSP Current amount of bull permits given out.
SPIKE HARVEST Total Amount of Spikes killed in that unit that could have become branch bulls
RATIO % Percent of Animals that go to that user group/Number of animals entitled to that user group.
ADD Additional amount of special permits that would now be available.
TOTAL The new amount of special permits that would now be given out.
CSP SPIKE HARVEST RATIO% ADD. TOTAL
MODERN 9 266 64%170 221 230
MUZZLE 1 266 15%/40 59 60
BOW 4 266 21%/56 96 100
TOTAL 14 376 390
4.) After three years do a study to see if the Colockum elk herd can again be hunted using a general season now that road closures have had a chance to be implemented. The intent of the permit only is not to make the permit only a permanent change but only a temporary one in order to build the herd back up. And to give us time to create physical barriers to limit some of the road access that is available in GMU's 328 and 329.
With 390 branch permits given out and a success rate of 65% this would only lead to the harvest of 256 bull elk a year. Far short of the 300 plus spikes killed a year with the current seasons. Again thank you for your time. And I hope that you will listen to us and take our ideas into consideration. We are not doing this to promote some sort of trophy hunt. We are doing this so for the Colockum elk herd. We all want to see the Colockum elk herd thrive so that our children and our childrens children can enjoy the same type of hunting that we currently enjoy.
Respectfully Aaron Blanchard and www.washingtonsportsmen.com (http://www.washingtonsportsmen.com)
Post by: Shannon on March 09, 2009, 08:54:37 PM
I don't hunt the Colockum but am interested in having quality hunts for my kids there if they choose when they get older. Hopefully your efforts help.
Post by: colockumelk on March 09, 2009, 09:46:57 PM
Post by: colockumelk on March 10, 2009, 03:24:35 PM
After three years do a study to see if the Colockum elk herd can again be hunted using a general season now that road closures have had a chance to be implemented. The intent of the permit only is not to make the permit only a permanent change but only a temporary one in order to build the herd back up. And to give us time to create physical barriers to limit some of the road access that is available in GMU's 328 and 329.
Post by: colockumelk on March 14, 2009, 11:16:35 AM
Post by: Slider on March 14, 2009, 03:03:34 PM
Send it to this e-mail wildthing@dfw.wa.gov
Dear Wildlife Commission,
My name is:
My email address is:
I agree with the following letter that Mr. Aaron Blanchard has typed up. This needs to happen as soon as possible not later, as later will be too late for the Colockum elk herd. I am sending this to you to let you know that I support a Permit only system for the Colockum (GMU's 328 and 329) instead of the proposed "true spike" rule.
Dear Wildlife Commission,
My name is Aaron Blanchard and I represent a group known as Washington Sportsmen. Recently I attended the meeting that was held in Ellensburg, WA. First of all I would like to thank you for the time I was allowed to speak and I again thank you for taking the time to read this. The following are the facts of the situation. It is also exactly what I said at the meeting in Ellensburg. All of the following facts and statistics are from your website. They have been taken from harvest reports, game trend reports and also the studies done for the elk herd plans. I was also asked a question that I should have answered more thoroughly. At the end is the response to that question.
In the past 5 years the branch bull population in the Colockum has been absolutely decimated. Currently the branch bull to cow ratio is 5:100. In 2002 there were 391 branch bulls in the Colockum and as of 2007 there are only 116 branch bulls left. This is a decline of 70%. LET ME REITERATE THAT. That is a decline of 70%. That is a decline of 14% a year. If this trend continues by 2011 there won’t be any branch bulls left in the Colockum.
You need to act now, now 3 years from now. You need to go to permit only now. The elk need a stimulus package worse than our country does. There are various reasons why the branch bull population has been decimated. They are poaching, tribal-hunting, and far too much road access. Some of these are out of your hands and others will take a lot of time and resources to change. Time that the Colockum elk do not have. You need to control what you can which is spike recruitment. You have the power to make things happen now which is what you need to do.
The main problem with the Colockum elk herd is spike recruitment. In the Colockum the average harvest is 135 per GMU. In the Yakima herd the average spike harvest per GMU is only 57. The Colockum has a spike harvest average per GMU of almost 3 times that of the Yakima GMUs. 85% of all yearling bulls in the Colockum are killed every year. Only 15% of yearling bulls in the Colockum survive their first two years. In 2005 only 46 spikes made it through the hunting season in the entire Colockum.
The best course of action is to go to Permit Only now, not later. Do what is right even if it is unpopular. Sometimes the right choice isn't the popular choice. Often the popular opinion isn't always an ethical one. In any case during the surveys over the past year the public favored permit only over the "True Spike" proposition. So why did you not go to permit only like the public wanted? For those that oppose this what many people don't realize is that every year in the Colockum 300 or more spikes are harvested by hunters. If it were permit only this would mean 300 more spikes would survive to become branch antlered bulls every year. With special permit success rates being about 50% this would mean you could give out 600 branch bull permits in the Colockum every year instead of the 6 that were given out last year.
For the sake of the elk in the Colockum please do the right thing. True Spike might have been a good idea ten years ago but right now the True Spike concept would be too little and too late.
I was asked this question at the end of my speech. "Would I support the closure of all elk hunting in the Colockum for one year."
My answer was a definite yes. But under four conditions.
1.) It's closed to everyone for that year. Licensed-Hunters, Master-Hunters, and Tribal-Hunters. The courts have ruled that state regulation of tribal exercise of off-reservation hunting rights on open and unclaimed land is preempted by the Stevens Treaties, except where state regulation is necessary for conservation purposes While the Boldt Decision of February 12, 1974 did grant the tribes 50% of all the fish harvest it did reserve the state's right to
The courts have ruled that state regulation of tribal exercise of off-reservation hunting rights on open and unclaimed land is preempted by the Stevens Treaties, except where state regulation is necessary for conservation purposes
2.) After a year when you do open it up it goes to permit only for at least three years in order to monitor how well the herd is doing. If it goes back to the status quo we will be in the same boat we are in right now.
3.) When it is permit only you issue far more permits than are currently issued. Without the massive amounts of spikes being harvested every year, you would have these spikes living to become branch bulls so you could afford to give out far more branch bull permits. I have submitted an example of just how many permits you could give out. I came up with the numbers by this method. I took (Avg. # of spikes harvested in the Colockum 266.) And distributed those amongst the three user groups utilizing your distribution ratios. (Modern would get 170 of the 266.) I then multiplied that number by the average special permit success rate. (170 x 70%= 221) I then added the amount that is already given out to get my total of permits you could and should give out. (221 + 9 = 230) So for example if it goes to permit only you could give out 230 branch bull permits instead of 9 and still grow the herd. Below are the numbers. Obviously this is just an example of how many numbers could be possible. This is obviously not the exact number that would be used and I'm sure you guys would set your own numbers.
CSP Current amount of bull permits given out.
SPIKE HARVEST Total Amount of Spikes killed in that unit that could have become branch bulls
RATIO % Percent of Animals that go to that user group/Number of animals entitled to that user group.
ADD Additional amount of special permits that would now be available.
TOTAL The new amount of special permits that would now be given out.
CSP SPIKE HARVEST RATIO% ADD. TOTAL
MODERN 9 266 64%170 221 230
MUZZLE 1 266 15%/40 59 60
BOW 4 266 21%/56 96 100
TOTAL 14 376 390
4.) After three years do a study to see if the Colockum elk herd can again be hunted using a general season now that road closures have had a chance to be implemented. The intent of the permit only is not to make the permit only a permanent change but only a temporary one in order to build the herd back up. And to give us time to create physical barriers to limit some of the road access that is available in GMU's 328 and 329.
With 390 branch permits given out and a success rate of 65% this would only lead to the harvest of 256 bull elk a year. Far short of the 300 plus spikes killed a year with the current seasons. Again thank you for your time. And I hope that you will listen to us and take our ideas into consideration. We are not doing this to promote some sort of trophy hunt. We are doing this so for the Colockum elk herd. We all want to see the Colockum elk herd thrive so that our children and our children’s children can enjoy the same type of hunting that we currently enjoy.
Respectfully Aaron Blanchard and the Washington Sportsmen.
Post by: colockumelk on March 14, 2009, 03:21:23 PM
Forgot to keep the address that it goes to though. ;)
wildthing@dfw.wa.gov
Post by: gasman on March 14, 2009, 04:14:26 PM
I just sent off an e-mail.
Thanks for your hard work and dedication to the cause......
Post by: colockumelk on March 14, 2009, 04:51:45 PM
Also for those that don't like everything I said or wrote about please feel free to write your own version of what you would like to see happen involving a permit only system for three years. I know many feel it's completely the Indians fault. They are part of the problem in the Colockum but it's only a piece of the pie. I guarantee you they kill far more in the Yakima herds and they are fine. We need to look at ourselves first before we point the fingers and correct ourselves before we try and correct others. That's how I was raised and that's what I believe. :twocents: YAK-NDN had an excellant point. How can we go over to them screaming about them killing off all of our bulls when they can come back with the amount of bulls both branch and spikes (future bulls) that we kill a year.
Post by: Slider on March 14, 2009, 04:59:53 PM
Post by: colockumelk on March 14, 2009, 06:20:38 PM
Post by: Buckrub on March 14, 2009, 09:11:04 PM
Great letter Aaron,
It lays out the need not to hunt spikes....but leaves out specifics on general season. I can see them reverting to the old management style that got the herd in trouble to start with.
I think you know how I feel about general season....Five point antler restriction for all with less hunting days to control escapement.
Post by: colockumelk on March 15, 2009, 02:17:16 PM
After three years do a study to see if the Colockum elk herd can again be hunted using a general season now that road closures have had a chance to be implemented. The intent of the permit only is not to make the permit only a permanent change but only a temporary one in order to build the herd back up. And to give us time to create physical barriers to limit some of the road access that is available in GMU's 328 and 329
Great letter Aaron,
It lays out the need not to hunt spikes....but leaves out specifics on general season. I can see them reverting to the old management style that got the herd in trouble to start with.
I think you know how I feel about general season....Five point antler restriction for all with less hunting days to control escapement.
Like I said before though 2/3 to 3/4 of all the elk killed are killed during opening weekend. So your plan would mean that we could only hunt for one or two days. Plus all the big ones would be getting nailed and it would be just like before when it was any bull. Alot of little ones but no big healthy ones. Antler restrictions work well over on the west side where it's thick and they have escapement but over in the wide open Colockum they would not stand a chance.
Post by: Buckrub on March 15, 2009, 02:33:37 PM
One hundred thousand Washington elk hunters harvest approximately 7,000 elk annually from
an estimated population of approximately 56,000. Washington has more elk hunters per elk than
any other western state and has no limit on the number of elk licenses sold. Because anyone can
purchase a license and hunt elk, success rates for general season hunters are low. Without carefully managed season timing, antler point restrictions, and relatively short seasons, the male
sub-population would be over-harvested. Opportunities to hunt and spend time afield must be
balanced against achieving or maintaining elk population objectives. As herd population levels
increase, harvest levels will increase as well.
As mandated by the Washington State Legislature (RCW 77.04.012), “… the department shall
preserve, protect, perpetuate, and manage the wildlife…”; “the department shall conserve the
wildlife… in a manner that does not impair the resource…”; and “The commission shall attempt
to maximize the public recreational… hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile,
disabled, and senior citizens.” It is this mandate that sets the overall policy and direction for
managing hunted wildlife. Hunters and hunting will continue to play a significant role in the
conservation and management of Washington’s wildlife.
This is from the wdfw...now on to your questions.
Have I ever hunted the Clockum?
next year will be my 39th year hunting Washington...what do you think? Yes.
Yes it is a lottery system and YOU may never hunt for bull elk on the eastside in your entire life, and we still don't meet bull to cow ratio.
Ok...rifle hunters only get a weekend hunt...better than never! select road closures would enhance escapement...at least you would get to hunt. With no general season and a e/w tag, you don't draw you don't hunt that year and maybe you don't hunt there ever again, even with 15 points. 15 points only allows 45 entries into the draw system.
How could a weekend with a 1 in 3 chance of harvesting a mature bull be more restrictive than NEVER hunting.
I've hunted elk long enough to know mature bulls are very weary and even without cover they can put a man to shame in seconds....especially in the clockum.
Wouldn't road closures be considered habitat enhancement?
You yourself have said it would work in your comment but it would be a short season...why do I have to prove anything?
5 or 6 point antler restriction to a general season would be short for a lead thrower but I'd bet WE could figure out how to lengthen the season with select habitat enhancement (road closures).
Post by: Snapshot on March 15, 2009, 06:10:04 PM
Post by: colockumelk on March 15, 2009, 07:20:18 PM
Have I ever hunted the Clockum?
next year will be my 39th year hunting Washington...what do you think? Yes.
Yes it is a lottery system and YOU may never hunt for bull elk on the eastside in your entire life, and we still don't meet bull to cow ratio.
I'll most likely get drawn this year and I only have four points. Archery guys get drawn on average every four years in the Yakima GMU"s where the ML's and the rifle guys average every 6 years. Unless you put in for the Colockum only or the Blue MT units only you should as well.
Most of the Yakima herds meet their bull to cow ratio objectives. The Colockum doesn't because too many spikes are killed every year. Spike only works for the Yakima herd because they have alot less road access then we do. I know we both agree on limiting road access so no need toget into that.
Ok...rifle hunters only get a weekend hunt...better than never! select road closures would enhance escapement...at least you would get to hunt. With no general season and a e/w tag, you don't draw you don't hunt that year and maybe you don't hunt there ever again, even with 15 points. 15 points only allows 45 entries into the draw system.
How could a weekend with a 1 in 3 chance of harvesting a mature bull be more restrictive than NEVER hunting.
You must not be familiar with how the point system work. They square the points you have. Which means if you have 15 points then you would have 15x15=225 points. Again with this much points you could easily draw any Yakima unit even with a rifle tag.
Where do you think hunters couldn't hunt at all. I would rather get drawn every three years in the Colockum and get to have an awsome hunt, and; still get to hunt every year just in another GMU (There are 10 other GMU's to hunt) then only get to hunt for two days. In order to meet your 5 pt minimum objective the season would be so short it wouldn't even be worth it. Many take an entire week to go hunting and your plan would limit them to two days at the most.
I've hunted elk long enough to know mature bulls are very weary and even without cover they can put a man to shame in seconds....especially in the clockum.
Yes but with a rifle it's mostly about chance. Maybe in thicker areas a weary bull can survive but not in the open like that. They may evade one guy but are they going to be able to evade 9 other guys in one draw that's super open, when the bull is pushed? It's not a matter of how weary and cagey the bull is. When guys can shoot and see 400 yds the bull doesn't stand a chance. A chance that I'm trying to give these elk.
Wouldn't road closures be considered habitat enhancement?
Obviously there needs to be some major road restrictions in these GMU's. This will be my major goal this year is physically closing down as many roads as they'll let me close.
You yourself have said it would work in your comment but it would be a short season...why do I have to prove anything?
Because I've already proven myself to people with alot of facts and stats. I've shown that my method would indeed work. I've shown how mathematically you would get drawn every 3 years and many would get drawn every 2 years. Now YOU NEED to show us stats etc how your plan would work. How many days could guys hunt. What would the restrictions be, when would the season be. Who knows it might be a good idea and I'l incorporate it into my plans when I go before the commission and when I go to the big game round table discussions. Make a believer out of me. The more ideas the better.
5 or 6 point antler restriction to a general season would be short for a lead thrower but I'd bet WE could figure out how to lengthen the season with select habitat enhancement (road closures).
Post by: colockumelk on March 19, 2009, 03:15:09 PM
NOTESpike Harvest is the total number of spikes harvested on average every year between modern and archery seasons.
USER CURRENT# AVG Spec. Per. SPIKE # of ANIMAL ADD NEW AMT
GROUP PERMITS SUCC % HARVEST ENTITLED/% PERMITS PERMITS
Modern 6 54% 270 162/ 60% 295 301
Muz. Load. 1 65% 270 41/ 15% 63 64
Archery 4 24% 270 68/25% 283 287
Total 11 36% 270 270/100% 641 652
If you want to know what the numbers would be for the Yakima herd as well go to this link.
http://www.washingtonsportsmen.com/?q=node/85 (http://www.washingtonsportsmen.com/?q=node/85)
Post by: YellowDog on March 20, 2009, 09:35:38 AM
Post by: luvtohnt on March 20, 2009, 09:40:43 AM
Okay here are the new numbers. I did alot more research and crunched numbers based on the average of the last four hunting seasons not just last year. I also used the distribution formula that the WDFW uses. So here are the new numbers.
NOTESpike Harvest is the total number of spikes harvested on average every year between modern and archery seasons.
USER CURRENT# AVG Spec. Per. SPIKE # of ANIMAL ADD NEW AMT
GROUP PERMITS SUCC % HARVEST ENTITLED/% PERMITS PERMITS
Modern 6 54% 270 162/ 60% 295 301
Muz. Load. 1 65% 270 41/ 15% 63 64
Archery 4 24% 270 68/25% 283 287
Total 11 36% 270 270/100% 641 652
If you want to know what the numbers would be for the Yakima herd as well go to this link.
http://www.washingtonsportsmen.com/?q=node/85 (http://www.washingtonsportsmen.com/?q=node/85)
This all looks good, but the only thing that would concern me is there WILL be a higher success rate with less pressure from hunters so there has to be some way to figure a percentage that the success rate will increase by with the reduced number of hunters present.
Brandon
Post by: colockumelk on March 22, 2009, 06:49:45 PM
Yellow dog sure no problem.
Okay 270 spikes are killed a year total in the Colockum (328/329). The Muzzle Loaders are entitled to 15% of those animals. So 270 X 0.15 =40.5=41 animals. Now the ML special permit average success rate for the Colockum is 65% it would take Z amount of permits to get the desired 41 animals harvested so take 41 X 100/65= 63. Take the current amount of permits and add that to the new additional number. 63 +1= 64 permits would now be available to ML. I hope that helps. Thank you for the interest.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 23, 2009, 10:00:39 AM
From: WDFW Public Affairs (do.not.reply@dfw.wa.gov)
Sent: Fri 3/20/09 5:30 PM
To:
WDFW NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov/
March 20, 2009
Contact: Susan Yeager, (360) 902-2267
Fish and Wildlife Commission will consider
proposed hunting rules for 2009-11
OLYMPIA - The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission will consider adopting a three-year package of statewide hunting seasons and rules during a public meeting scheduled April 3-4 in Olympia.
The commission, which sets policy for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW), will meet both days at 8:30 a.m. in Room 172 of the Natural Resources Building at 1111 Washington St. S.E.
Hunting seasons under consideration include those for deer, elk, moose, bighorn sheep, mountain goat, black bear, cougar and small game in 2009, 2010 and 2011.
Commissioners also will consider proposed revisions in special seasons and hunting restrictions; opportunities for terminally ill and disabled hunters; landowner hunting permits and damage-prevention permit hunts; trapping seasons; big game and wild turkey auctions, raffle and special-incentive permits; special closures and game management unit boundary descriptions; non-toxic shot requirements; and hunting equipment restrictions.
The commission is scheduled to take action on the three-year hunting plan April 4, the second day of the public meeting. Proposals now before the commission are posted at http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/seasonsetting/index.htm#recommendations on the WDFW website.
Several of those proposals reflect changes made in response to public testimony at the commission's meeting last month in Ellensburg, said Dave Ware, WDFW game manager. No further public testimony is scheduled on the three-year hunting plan at the April 3-4 commission meeting.
The proposals, developed after extensive public involvement, are based on the 2009-15 Game Management Plan, available at http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/management/2009-2015/ .
On the first day of the meeting, the commission is scheduled to take action on two proposed land transactions and will receive briefings from WDFW staff on issues ranging from the state's aquaculture industry to illegal marijuana growing on public lands.
A meeting agenda and background materials are posted on the commission's website at http://wdfw.wa.gov/commission/meetings.html .
Post by: colockumelk on March 23, 2009, 12:42:02 PM
Go to the above link and scroll down to page 62 and you'll read one of my public comments at the meeting.
My comment which was a tiny part of it says "Go permit only in the Colockum. Bulls are down 70% in 5 years. True Spike is not the answer."
Here's their response. Either they are straight up lying or they don't read their own research.
There are over 6,000 hunters that hunt the Colockum elk herd during the general season. The agency is not ready to implement that drastic of a measure at this time."
If they were to look at their own studies which are at the below links they would know that on average only 4,278 hunters have hunted the Colockum. And if you look at those numbers over the past 6 years they have been reduced by 56%
2007- 3,893 hunters
2006- 3,964 hunters
2005- 4,253 hunters
2004- 5,002 hunters
2003- 5,232 hunters
2002- 6,948 hunters
Here's the link with that info. Like I said either they are lying or they need to read their own reports because the number they replied with "6,000" and the latest number of hunters that their reports say "3893" are two very different numbers.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/harvest/index.htm
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 23, 2009, 07:48:47 PM
Post by: colockumelk on March 23, 2009, 08:36:45 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/harvest/index.htm (http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/harvest/index.htm)
What I was getting at is this. Their harvest reports say one thing but their response says another. Either they are lying or they do not read their own research. For example 3,893 different hunters claimed to have hunted in the "Clockum" in 2007. That is the only research that we can go off of. When they say that 6,000 hunters hunt the Clockum either their resonse is a lie or their research is a lie or like I said they don't read their own stuff.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 23, 2009, 10:15:29 PM
Post by: colockumelk on March 24, 2009, 01:51:17 PM
I was only talking about 328/329. But you are right part of 251 is just as much a part of the "Clockum" as the 328/329. So maybe I will start including them in those numbers.
Amamzingly enough also the WDFW is going to conduct a two year study to figure out why the bull to cow ratio in the Colockum keeps dropping and why spike recruitment is so low. WTF an idiot could look at a map and their harvest reports and in about 10 seconds figure that one out. Oh well I'm sure that the million dollars spent on that research grant will go to a good cause. :bash:
Post by: Buckrub on March 26, 2009, 04:21:07 PM
I think you are starting to see the real picture. The state doesn't care about the elk, they are concerned about money.
The wdfw has turned the elk into a lottery and raffle at the expense of the animals. This is why they can't be trusted with a permit only management, it would turn into a fundraiser.
A two year study is just putting off the few who are bitchin at the moment.
The best avenue would be to get hunters organized with a common goal, they will only listen to $$$$$$$$$$$! If you want the elk herd managed properly you will have to pay$$
Good luck
Post by: colockumelk on March 26, 2009, 04:34:11 PM
This all looks good, but the only thing that would concern me is there WILL be a higher success rate with less pressure from hunters so there has to be some way to figure a percentage that the success rate will increase by with the reduced number of hunters present.
Brandon
The only way they could do that is give out 10% less permits and from there see what the success % would be. And then continue to do what they do now which is base the amount of permits off of the success % and numbers of animals.
BTW I asked a certain person that I will leave anonymous and my number of 652 permits was off by 12. The number I was told would be 640.
And the study they are going to do is to study the migration patterns of the Colockum elk and also a big part is to study calf mortality and why the mortality rate is so high. The calf mortality thing alone in my opinion will be money well spent. I look forward to the results.