Post by: Diehard0123 on March 10, 2009, 07:08:22 AM
Post by: jackelope on March 10, 2009, 07:24:47 AM
Post by: HoofsandWings on March 10, 2009, 02:43:28 PM
i am headed to the blues this weekend to have a look around. i heard all the big snow was gone....i wonder if it all came back.Looking at the snotel sites, Touche (5500') 88" up from 60" last week. Spruce Springs (5700') 64" up from 41" last week.
Snake Basin/Asotin (4000') 20" up from 6" last week.
Post by: jackelope on March 10, 2009, 02:44:58 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on March 10, 2009, 07:03:59 PM
Post by: turkey slayer on March 15, 2009, 08:38:45 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on March 15, 2009, 08:58:04 PM
Post by: Phantom Gobbler on March 15, 2009, 08:58:58 PM
Did you see good numbers of birds down low near the farms this weekend? Two hard winters in a row is putting the birds to the stress test! :(
Post by: Dustin07 on March 15, 2009, 09:12:47 PM
Post by: Diehard0123 on March 16, 2009, 07:17:34 AM
Went over to put up my game cameras and and to go and look for some horns over in Fruitland on some of are property and their is still 2 feet of snow, can't even get down to our camp. When is it going to go away, are we going to be hunting in snow opening weekend again >:(
Wow, that is pretty bad.
Post by: turkey slayer on March 16, 2009, 10:31:07 AM
I haven't herd that we had a big hit this winter, seems to me the birds are doing pretty good in the NE. What bio. did you talk to was he fron the NE area?
Anyway I herd we are going to start warming up over on this side.
Post by: turkeydancer on March 16, 2009, 10:51:17 AM
The reports I have coming in from my landowners say the birds did fine in the Colville area. It may be a hit or miss thing on bird kills (as it is on the amount of snow) for localized areas. My experience is that the turkeys are pretty hardy, survival smart, and also adapt quickly to the conditions.
Post by: Wacenturion on March 16, 2009, 11:37:09 AM
Post by: giddyhitch on March 16, 2009, 11:46:46 AM
Post by: Phantom Gobbler on March 16, 2009, 12:15:13 PM
Post by: Machias on March 16, 2009, 12:17:15 PM
Post by: turkey slayer on March 16, 2009, 12:19:03 PM
Wacenturion, what do you meen
Post by: giddyhitch on March 16, 2009, 12:21:51 PM
Post by: Phantom Gobbler on March 16, 2009, 12:24:28 PM
Post by: turkeydancer on March 16, 2009, 12:28:01 PM
I lost respect for the upland bird "manager" who had agreed at our state meeting to defer any thought of that until this year to allow for further study and additional comment ... and the negotiations for the new 3 year management plan.
>:( Hey Mick !!! - Target the "excess" birds, not the entire population ... we worked too hard for this wonderful opportunity !!! >:( >:( >:(
Post by: giddyhitch on March 16, 2009, 12:29:17 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on March 16, 2009, 01:30:27 PM
(except where WDFW issues kill permits in lieu of trapping an relocating >:().
Wacenturion, what do you meen
At times in the recent past WDFW has essentially issued a kill permit and even helped eliminate birds that were considered a nuisance in some locations in the NE. Tried to search to find one article from the Spokeman Review by Rich Launders a few years ago, but could not locate it.
WDFW used to trap and relocate birds to other counties in the 90's....that was the right way and promoted great PR between the affected landowner, local sportsmen, as well as landowners and sportmen/public in other counties that were receiving the birds.
This new approach of killing birds by WDFW officials and/or landowners outside the season or by increasing the fall harvest limits to hopefully rid areas of excess birds is just the "I'm to lazy to do it right management " by WDFW powers to be. Of course these guys hate turkeys, so I guess this is a predictable management approach. Personally...I think WDFW needs a good enema.
Post by: turkeydancer on March 16, 2009, 01:36:01 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on March 16, 2009, 03:26:18 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on March 16, 2009, 03:41:13 PM
It is too bad that the transplanting hasn't continued. Some counties benefited tremendously from this, and all Merriam counties could use a boost from the NE birds... introducing new blood lines never hurts.
So true.....especially when you have excess birds to deal with. Everyone wins. But then again each WDFW Region has an office and you have your naysayers there also. Can you imagine a reason for denying the release of birds into Klickitat County in the late 90's that were trapped in Stevens? Merriams...same subspecies.....just didn't want any more birds is all. Regional Wildlife Biologist and his field biologist were opposed. I think they believed they would eat all the western pond turtles or endangered snails. You know all that "sky is falling bull****" these eco freaks throw out to defend their stance.
Unbelievable. They...those idiots, also nixed several additional releases of Easterns into areas of SW Washington. Doesn't make you feel warm all over knowing WDFW staff is looking out for you and creating more opportunity? Like I said above...WDFW needs an enema. Those kind of people should have never been hired. :bdid:
Post by: turkeydancer on March 16, 2009, 03:48:11 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on March 16, 2009, 03:54:23 PM
Did I see somewhere you and your son were going to N. Lincoln for the opener? If so, might run into you as that's where I plan to open with this year, unless it's still snowed in.
Post by: yelp on March 16, 2009, 04:17:24 PM
Funny, they are not shy about increasing your hunting fees for species that they refuse to provide population support for ... this year however, 3 NWTF biologists are coming out to "help" the WDFW with their 3 year game management plan ... keep the fingers crossed.
Well that should say it all right there... apparently the people in charge have no clue how to manage wild turkeys in Washington if they need assistance from outside Washington. They are after money plain and simple (cooperatively speaking)..which can be positive don't get me wrong. Hopefully the WANWTF representatives can also meet with these biologists and voice concerns..So that they don't give the powers that be the OK as the "NWTF representatives"..Maybe I 'm just paranoid. It would be positive to grease the skids with these representatives and have the NWTF biologists develop a better plan than the current one. One that promotes education and works with private landowners on nuisance issues. Bringing back trap and transfer efforts, etc.. The Wild Turkey is the most successful sport in Washington and there is a lot of money made at the state level as well as locally. It is a renewable resource...we now harvest 6000 birds statewide...which is amazing compared to 12 years ago...I am biased because I love the sport. :twocents:
Post by: fishunt247 on March 16, 2009, 04:31:57 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on March 16, 2009, 04:33:53 PM
Now............6000 birds harvested
Mid 80's......... 62 birds harvested
Now that's what I call a stimulus! :yike:
Post by: Wacenturion on March 16, 2009, 05:01:28 PM
Centurion, are you referencing the region 3 biologist, the same one who got in all that heat a few years back about falsifying evidence of the lynx. If you are, my dad a little squabble with him during some of the Yakima County plants. My dad, who was the chapter chairman of the Yakima chapter, tried to persuade him to plant some birds in Reynolds Creek. Traditionally, on every other plant in the Tampico area, birds naturally migrated over to Reynolds Creek and did well there. But the biologist claimed that Reynolds Creek didn't have as many "pine nuts" so the birds would survive the winters as well. What a joke. Too much "science" and not enough actual observation. Guess what? After the plants in Nasty Creek and other areas in Tampico, more birds ended up in Reynolds Creek. Go figure.
No, I was referring to the nut jobs in the Vancouver office. At that time the Region 5 office controlled Klickitat County. Now I think Klickitat is part of Region 3 and managed through the Yakima region.
No pine nuts huh? What an idiot! That's the trouble with all of these experts in the WDFW who don't like or either don't know crap about turkeys. Just what we all need.....more s'perts. Gee, you would think they believe turkeys are so fragile that they could not adapt to not enough pine nuts? Your Dad should have told him..."why the hell you think they now exist in 49 of 50 states, many where they were not native..........Because they are adaptable you friggin moron!"
What was the Biologist's initials.
Post by: fishunt247 on March 16, 2009, 05:17:56 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on March 16, 2009, 05:31:19 PM
PM sent. And yep, what an idiot. So I sure hope all you guys are scouting areas with enough pine nuts ;)
Do they taste like wild hickory nuts? Too funny.............LOL.
Post by: Tom Tamer on March 16, 2009, 06:51:06 PM
I'll admit I was kind of sipping the koolaid a little trying to do what was right for the turkey but the more I read what Yelp and Wacent said the fog kind of parted....I still like the NWTF at least the folks that make it run. Mayb we just need to finally quit waiting on the Goobermint to help us and just do it. I got an F350 long bed we can get a few turkeys in the back of that. Move'em where we need to!
Maybe all of us on here and around start pressuring Mick to relocate obviously our voices aren't as loud as the landowners on this one? Or we start vigilante trap/transfers. :twocents:
Post by: yelp on March 16, 2009, 06:58:51 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on March 16, 2009, 07:05:52 PM
Unfortunately it not as easy as some of us just getting permission to do it....which would never happen. Those people actually doing the trapping...you know setting the charges in the rockets and pushing the button have to be licensed by L&I...an explosives license strictly for trap and transfer. Wdfw let all those with those licenses to expire, and many of them are in different positions. The staff in Upland Wildlife Restoration who did all the turkey work went from 22 during the 90's to I believe a total of 6 now.
It's not the trapping that's the problem. They just don't want birds to be relocated anywhere, plain and simple. They just conviently use that excuse to solve their problem. Pretty damn sad. :bash:
Post by: Wacenturion on March 16, 2009, 07:10:23 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on March 16, 2009, 07:13:31 PM
Post by: turkeydancer on March 16, 2009, 08:25:13 PM
We would probably have to get every turkey hunter in the state to write to their local and state reps, senators and other elected officials ... ie - pressure the government officials to pressure Mick et al ... otherwise you would probably get nailed for illegally transferring a state game animal without their "permission" into an area they hadn't "blessed" against their management "plan" .. and if we didn't have the blessing of national and the NWTF biologists, they would probably throw us into their "turkey" jail also. Totally frustrating to say the least ...
However, we need to bring this up at our next BOD meeting. I know Lyle would be on our side and we need to start somewhere righting the ship .... the rats are already starting to desert (oh, sorry Mick).
Post by: turkeydancer on March 16, 2009, 08:55:02 PM
Let me know if you want to meet up ...
To WaCent and Yelp ---
As far as the national and regional assistance, that is a result of the BOD/RDand National realizing we could use additional help out here with the WDFW .... especially them having our hands tied as to traps and transfers, or anything else that would benefit the turkeys. They may be able to help us right the ship and get it sailing straight again.
I know I must have said this before, but have you ever considered adding your voices of reason to the BOD. As long as you are an active member of a local chapter it's a pretty simple ... we meet usually twice a year (more only if it's really, really necessary) ... most other business is done with a couple of in between telcoms or via e-mails.
Post by: MerriamMan on March 16, 2009, 11:29:58 PM
Has anyone seen or heard any evidence that our turkeys are eating acorns from the indigenous Oregon white oaks we have in our beautiful state? I have checked the craw of every bird I have taken and this is what I've found: dandylion blossoms,plain ole grass, pine nut(Of course)snow berries(Have to show you guys the picture of this softball size craw that weighed 20oz.),little blue/huckle berry looking things, and, oh, one baby rattle snake,and much more. Conspicuous by it's absence is the acorn. do our turkeys eat em? I know down south the easterns literally live and die for them. my tie in to this thread is. If they are throwing words around like pine nuts and carrying capacity for reasons not to relocate than they are being far less than truthful. Every year here in central WA. I'd say many tons go back to ground UN eaten. Maybe Jerbear can chime in since he lives in the middle of oak central. Any way, so sorry for the rant, I just wondered if acorns are a food source for any of the birds you guys run into? Thanks
Post by: fishunt247 on March 17, 2009, 01:13:11 AM
Post by: yelp on March 17, 2009, 06:59:38 AM
WaCent - Missed your message earlier ... Maybe we can get together for dinner over there ... my boy and I will be arriving in Davenport Tuesday afternoon and will be there until Friday late afternoon or evening (landowners family gets the weekends), then the boy is heading back home and I'm heading to Colville to take one of my chapter members out (even if I have tagged out --- it's myas my way of "paying back" or "forward" my volunteers --- ie: a happy tukrey hunter is a happy volunteer). I will also see how my other members are doing, and we all may meet with Tacoma chapter members for dinner Saturday night. Probably stay there until Monday about noon. I probably will take my 25 ft trailer versus renting a room (but I don't like cooking and doing dishes during turkey season so we will just have at most a great start microwaved breakfast, then carry a lunch/snacks, and dine out in the evening). I like to hit it from before dawn to close to dark as needed ... but also take breaks as necessary if we feel like it and are getting too darn frustrated.
Let me know if you want to meet up ...
To WaCent and Yelp ---
As far as the national and regional assistance, that is a result of the BOD/RDand National realizing we could use additional help out here with the WDFW .... especially them having our hands tied as to traps and transfers, or anything else that would benefit the turkeys. They may be able to help us right the ship and get it sailing straight again.
I know I must have said this before, but have you ever considered adding your voices of reason to the BOD. As long as you are an active member of a local chapter it's a pretty simple ... we meet usually twice a year (more only if it's really, really necessary) ... most other business is done with a couple of in between telcoms or via e-mails.
Turkeydancer...Wacenturian and I will be in Lincoln County at my turkey camp. IF all goes well and the damn snow starts melting it will be Tuesday into the following week. I do have to work the 18th but will be back to camp later that evening. Anyways maybe we can have a meet and greet around the campfire at my camp.
Post by: yelp on March 17, 2009, 07:25:50 AM
I'd like to sneak a question in on this thread, not the main topic but the direction it's heading. I'll try to tie it all together at the end.
Has anyone seen or heard any evidence that our turkeys are eating acorns from the indigenous Oregon white oaks we have in our beautiful state? I have checked the craw of every bird I have taken and this is what I've found: dandylion blossoms,plain ole grass, pine nut(Of course)snow berries(Have to show you guys the picture of this softball size craw that weighed 20oz.),little blue/huckle berry looking things, and, oh, one baby rattle snake,and much more. Conspicuous by it's absence is the acorn. do our turkeys eat em? I know down south the easterns literally live and die for them. my tie in to this thread is. If they are throwing words around like pine nuts and carrying capacity for reasons not to relocate than they are being far less than truthful. Every year here in central WA. I'd say many tons go back to ground UN eaten. Maybe Jerbear can chime in since he lives in the middle of oak central. Any way, so sorry for the rant, I just wondered if acorns are a food source for any of the birds you guys run into? Thanks
MerriamMan...Most of the areas in the Yakima Area will support more turkeys, there was a lot of negativity about turkeys prior to and after releases in the 1990's and earlier and still today there is still some naysayers that say turkeys aren't doing well. Well they are wrong. They say that because they have know idea. I know for a fact the population is slowly growing north and south of Yakima. I talk with elk hunters that see them all over. But when you have negativity it breeds more negativity and it makes it hard to make the idea of supplemental releases are good thing. They would rather it fail than be successful it seems. As far as food sources, almost anything can be on the dietary hit list. Opportunistic feeders wild turkeys are adaptable to different habitats. The time of year will dictate diet. Greenup, flowers, to insects, to seeds, grains, fruits, nuts, etc..mast crops that get them through winters. The adaptable and opportunistic nature of the wild turkey also defines them as nuisance in some people eyes. There are examples of both but there are also solutions. Some of these solutions are not always agreed to by hunters or managers. Fall hunts, kill permits, etc.. All it would take is a little effort on the part of all to put the Nuisance issue away. But I think some like the idea of it and use it to push management direction. Not to drag you down...Like fishhunt247 says they will eat acorns. I know back east there are tastier acorns than others, but that is all I know.
Post by: Wacenturion on March 17, 2009, 07:42:24 AM
Post by: turkeydancer on March 17, 2009, 08:20:00 AM
Yelp/ Wacent - send me a PM (or e-mail my home "turkeydancer@centurytel.net") to let me know where you'll be camped and we'll make it by or meet up ... I'll return with my cell #. My son and I debated parking the trailer near the hunt sites (and taking the generator), but didn't want to come in and have to cook ... so we will probably pull in for full hook ups (at the Black Bear or similar) in Davenport or up north by the river) ... in the fall we have two properties available north of Davenport ... also have some friends up that direction .. boy loved it there last fall, so he wanted to go back this spring (I put him in the direct path of a slow turkey stampede and he shot 1 of the 50 at 10ft approx 1/2 hr after daylight this fall, then I took a 2nd at 30 yards). I also have a brother that lives over in the Almira area.
Post by: Tom Tamer on March 17, 2009, 03:47:16 PM
It amazing what folks can accomplish. Back when the birds were being actively trapped and relocated, there were a good number of NWTF members and some other local folks that helped out. Was busy work but fun and everyone felt like something was accomplished.
Unfortunately it not as easy as some of us just getting permission to do it....which would never happen. Those people actually doing the trapping...you know setting the charges in the rockets and pushing the button have to be licensed by L&I...an explosives license strictly for trap and transfer. Wdfw let all those with those licenses to expire, and many of them are in different positions. The staff in Upland Wildlife Restoration who did all the turkey work went from 22 during the 90's to I believe a total of 6 now.
It's not the trapping that's the problem. They just don't want birds to be relocated anywhere, plain and simple. They just conveniently use that excuse to solve their problem. Pretty damn sad. :bash:
Exactly right, when broached on the subject he said he didn't have the money to have one of the officials be there to shoot the rockets :liar: because one we do have the money, the money earmarked for the turkeys by law form the tag sales is sitting there not being used. Turkeydancer help me here but i believe last year it was about $150K ???? So Dave D. offered to get licensed and Mick shot that down. He wants off the tech committee yet still in charge typical politician can't stand it when " We the People" say our piece. Wac that's where some of us are coming from with the vigilante thing....what's to stop some one from getting qualified on the explosives or better yet are there any members out there who already are? The birds are here to stay and just ignoring them will not help any faction out there. I am sure D.D. is talking with National which already knows our situation out here and hopefully what I hear about the new regional Bio the NWTF has out here, he's a go-getter. What do we do form here on out? Storm the WDFW with pitchforks and torches and demand some un-bias managing of the turkey? I'm willing to put my boots on the ground. I'm not good at organizing but am good at helping with the grunt work. :twocents:
Post by: turkeydancer on March 17, 2009, 05:44:14 PM
Yep $150K - and that's only a 3rd of their haul for the turkeys, because 1/3 also goes to general fund and 1/3 to upland bird. Getting fat on the turkey tag funds, but wanting them to go away. Wonder how long before they say, "well gee whiz, got this $ 150K over here we don't plan on using for turks that we can use for this instead, by golly"! >:(
Whatever we do should start at the State Chapter level ... however, we need the local chapter presidents or their reps to start showing up to the business meeting, voice the opinions of their chapter members, and light a bonfire ! It's like I always say, "If you care, you got to get involved or at least speak up". And hopefully before decisions are made that one doesn't agree with ... and if you sit back and stay silent, you don't have the right to bitch when the smelly stuff hits the air oscillating device!! :bash:
Post by: NWTFhunter on March 18, 2009, 07:12:30 PM
It doesnt take a lic pyro tech at all ! Ca was having the same problem a couple of years ago, and was getting hit hard by the politics involving Homeland Sec and ATF. So they purchased a air cannon !!! No more need to be lic !!
If you are interested in who it was purchased through and cost I can get ahold of him and ask.
Dont let Mick or anyone else use that as an excuse anymore !!