Post by: Badhabit on March 03, 2018, 06:36:20 PM
Now that I have a new .270 Win. and a 7 mm Weatherby I'd like to know if they really need to be broken in or not. Anyone care to share some thoughts please.
Post by: jdb on March 03, 2018, 06:46:40 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on March 03, 2018, 06:54:00 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2018, 07:13:29 PM
Post by: Bob33 on March 03, 2018, 07:30:39 PM
How should I break-in my new Shilen barrel?
Break-in procedures are as diverse as cleaning techniques. Shilen, Inc. introduced a break-in procedure mostly because customers seemed to think that we should have one. By and large, we don't think breaking-in a new barrel is a big deal. All our stainless steel barrels have been hand lapped as part of their production, as well as any chrome moly barrel we install. Hand lapping a barrel polishes the interior of the barrel and eliminates sharp edges or burrs that could cause jacket deformity. This, in fact, is what you are doing when you break-in a new barrel through firing and cleaning.
Here is our standard recommendation: Clean after each shot for the first 5 shots. The remainder of the break-in is to clean every 5 shots for the next 50 shots. During this time, don't just shoot bullets down the barrel during this 50 shot procedure. This is a great time to begin load development. Zero the scope over the first 5 shots, and start shooting for accuracy with 5-shot groups for the next 50 shots. Same thing applies to fire forming cases for improved or wildcat cartridges. Just firing rounds down a barrel to form brass without any regard to their accuracy is a mistake. It is a waste of time and barrel life.
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2018, 07:33:54 PM
What I haven't done is hand lapped a production barrel (why bother right?) but I think it would be interesting
Post by: Thehowler on March 03, 2018, 08:12:11 PM
Post by: hunter399 on March 03, 2018, 08:25:57 PM
I thought it was myth intell a few ar15 barrels I had was shooting 6in groups,did the cleaning like I said above by 60 rounds groups tighten up like 1in at 100 some of my most accurate guns where done this way .does it matter no,will it hurt no.
I think what hurts new barrel the most is the crud new barrels have in them from manufacturing.
Post by: hunter399 on March 03, 2018, 08:32:57 PM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
That's the way it is.
Post by: mountainman on March 03, 2018, 08:47:55 PM
I do a break in, idea is to extend times between defouling cleanups. The last remington production barrel I did never did clean up and still leaves copper, but the tikka barrel cleaned up right away and left very little copper even new.Yup, some barrels Definetly are reamed better then others. But don't let some on here know what you found between Remington and Tikka, they might burst a vein😉
It Definetly is NOT a myth, especially when it comes to prevent rate of fouling, which relates to longer shot strings before cleanings..
Read responses to the contrary to follow lol!
Post by: lord grizzly on March 03, 2018, 09:07:26 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2018, 09:09:39 PM
Post by: h20hunter on March 03, 2018, 09:14:22 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on March 03, 2018, 09:14:43 PM
http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html
Post by: lord grizzly on March 03, 2018, 09:16:11 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2018, 09:16:34 PM
The OP has factory rifles with production barrels. They haven't been lapped, a proper break in procedure can (poorly) replicate the missing lapping procedure that benchmark and other custom barrel makers do.
but hey what do I know :dunno: keep going on custom gun maker sites and apply the info you've googled to production rack guns.
Post by: lord grizzly on March 03, 2018, 09:21:55 PM
following that logic no barrel would ever get shot out
No breaking them in is starting to shoot them out, not make them “better” hence my comment about refining
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2018, 09:23:30 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on March 03, 2018, 09:28:10 PM
a benchmark barrel that's been hand lapped is not the same thing, apples and oranges.
The OP has factory rifles with production barrels. They haven't been lapped, a proper break in procedure can (poorly) replicate the missing lapping procedure that benchmark and other custom barrel makers do.
but hey what do I know :dunno: keep going on custom gun maker sites and apply the info you've googled to production rack guns.
Well I could have typed it myself but why? It’s an old article, this thread just reminded me of it. Guess next time I’ll post three to four personal references for you to cross check me. Bet you’d be surprised some of the company I keep. I won’t try and help in the future, sorry
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2018, 09:38:56 PM
Post by: N7XW on March 03, 2018, 10:33:37 PM
Post by: runamuk on March 03, 2018, 10:39:37 PM
The last three guns sighted in with help by text in less than 10 shots, havent cleaned any of them, past experience cleaning wrecks my pattern.
But you do what makes your socks roll. If you like cleAning then make it part of your sight in.
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 03, 2018, 10:45:13 PM
Bought a Remington a few years ago that fouled like crazy and took over two hundred shots before it stopped needed a cleaning every 10-20 rounds. Same with a Ruger American that took about 60
Apples to oranges is an understatement for this question
Post by: Biggerhammer on March 03, 2018, 11:32:25 PM
I've had rifles built with many different barrels:
Krieger
Benchmark
Hart
Schneider
Rock Creek (Super accurate)
Bartlein
BlackHole
Douglas
McGowen
Obermeyer
Shilen
Pac-Nor
ARP
MOD 1
Brux
And many others that were made by the above but rebranded. I'll got with a cut rifle barrel every time over a button pulled. I will take a Rock Creek or a Benchmark barrel above all the ones I have used. If I had to choose just one barrel manufacturer out of all the above listed barrels. I would go with Benchmark, amazing spooky accurate super clean barrels.
The worst barrel I have ever shot in over 30 years. When it comes to a break in. Was my Howa Alpine 6.5 Creedmoor. That barrel bled "Blue" for 200 rounds. Then it settled down and cleaned up. It would shoot 1/2 MOA for 21 to 25 rounds and then it opened up quick!
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on March 04, 2018, 12:06:09 AM
Myth
RIP Tod Riechert
Post by: jdb on March 04, 2018, 05:55:16 AM
Does anyone really think a soft brass bullet and a nylon brush is going to hone the hardened steel over and above the hardened steel tools that were used to finish it? Think about it...arent they copper??
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 04, 2018, 07:46:18 AM
Does anyone really think a soft brass bullet and a nylon brush is going to hone the hardened steel over and above the hardened steel tools that were used to finish it? Think about it...
Those tools weren’t super heated and moving 3000fps though
I had an older Savage that would shoot well, similar to @Biggerhammer, where it would open up wide (not from heat) after a few five round groups. After diligently stripping it down to clean steel after every five shots for a hundred rounds, I found it held zero and tight groups for dozens and dozens of shootings.
I mean you can literally see the difference after a proper (when needed) break in. How is this even an argument?
Post by: Magnum_Willys on March 04, 2018, 08:06:47 AM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on March 04, 2018, 08:20:46 AM
Post by: Curly on March 04, 2018, 08:28:22 AM
Post by: superdown on March 04, 2018, 09:40:20 AM
Post by: TVHunts on March 04, 2018, 09:41:16 AM
Most (maybe even all....) manufacturers say to break-in the barrel. Most of their instructions are similar. Seems like they would know best, so I follow their instructions. :twocents:
I agree, why wouldn’t you? Custom barrels are hand lapped as mentioned. Even for a non reloader seems like it’s worth a box of ammo to do so. As others have stated it also helps reduce fouling later. At least that is my experience and how I was taught by some very experienced loaders and shooters. So, I do it and, even with factory rifles can always seem to make them shoot well so I’ll stick with the system. To each their own :tup:
Post by: zwickeyman on March 04, 2018, 09:58:18 AM
I agree with some here that it depends on the rifle on how much break in it needs
Post by: mountainman on March 04, 2018, 10:02:13 AM
Does anyone really think a soft brass bullet and a nylon brush is going to hone the hardened steel over and above the hardened steel tools that were used to finish it? Think about it...
Those tools weren’t super heated and moving 3000fps though
I had an older Savage that would shoot well, similar to @Biggerhammer, where it would open up wide (not from heat) after a few five round groups. After diligently stripping it down to clean steel after every five shots for a hundred rounds, I found it held zero and tight groups for dozens and dozens of shootings.
I mean you can literally see the difference after a proper (when needed) break in. How is this even an argument?
Well said. To add that even rough bores, earlier Savage, would shoot amazingly accurate. No better, no worse after break-in. But like many have stated, they hold accuracy longer and cleanings were quicker.
I have found on rifles with commonly rough bores(newer Remington) a few passes with a tight JB patch, and its good to go
Post by: b23 on March 04, 2018, 10:04:53 AM
Post by: wooltie on March 05, 2018, 10:39:31 AM
This is my first custom barrel.
There was a lot of blue on the patches after each shot until shot 6. Like almost the entire patch was blue and green. Since shot 6, there has been faint blue to dark blue on the patches, but the blue is isolated to the tip of the patch next to the end of the jag.
The bore cleans up super fast. 2-3 wet patches get the black out, then there's just faint blue on the tip of the patch. At this point I can use the bronze brush to remove the copper.
The bore still accumulates copper at the muzzle end, though I'm not sure this is an issue. Butchs+bronze brush removes the copper.
My understanding is that break in is supposed to smooth out the throat and allow carbon to smooth out the bore, thereby preventing copper build up. But I think even custom barrels accumulate copper, correct?
Post by: lord grizzly on March 05, 2018, 11:22:58 AM
I was done commenting here but I cant let a guy do that to his new custom barrel
Post by: h20hunter on March 05, 2018, 11:29:37 AM
Post by: h20hunter on March 05, 2018, 11:31:37 AM
Post by: Stein on March 05, 2018, 01:38:03 PM
I grew up religiously cleaning guns and it still kind of makes me cringe not cleaning my rifle, but I only clean it once a season and never with anything that would remove copper. One wet patch, then 2-3 dry patches max and a bit of oil if storing it for an extended period of time.
Post by: Bofire on March 05, 2018, 03:38:17 PM
Carl
Post by: yorketransport on March 05, 2018, 03:49:21 PM
I don't have any scientific data to back this up, but I'm pretty sure somebody on Facebook said something like this once.
Post by: h20hunter on March 05, 2018, 03:50:59 PM
That works but you have to use the boolits that are a bit gritty on tbe outside. Max loads and you will smooth it all out.
Post by: N7XW on March 05, 2018, 03:58:44 PM
I like to break in my barrels by firing about 100 rounds through them as fast as I can before even thinking about cleaning it. The theory is that if I get the metal hot enough, the bullets will polish out any imperfections in the now soft, malleable steel. :chuckle:But you have to use lapping ammo for it to work right :chuckle:
I don't have any scientific data to back this up, but I'm pretty sure somebody on Facebook said something like this once.
Post by: jay.sharkbait on March 05, 2018, 04:47:21 PM
I like to break in my barrels by firing about 100 rounds through them as fast as I can before even thinking about cleaning it. The theory is that if I get the metal hot enough, the bullets will polish out any imperfections in the now soft, malleable steel. :chuckle:
I don't have any scientific data to back this up, but I'm pretty sure somebody on Facebook said something like this once.
You are doing it wrong....
I like to take a steel cleaning rod and seat a cast lead projectile about 2" forward of the chamber. Then I load my "blue dot" speshul round behind that and let her rip...
I find this is the best way to "break her in"
Post by: N7XW on March 05, 2018, 04:56:58 PM
I would never run a bronze brush down any of my rifles. get a nylon and use more solvent.
I was done commenting here but I cant let a guy do that to his new custom barrel
I experimented with cleaning with patches only and was amazed at the crud that came out of my barrels while brushing them after they'd been thoroughly cleaned with only patches.
Don't know if bronze brushes can damage a bore but they sure seem to do a better job of cleaning stubborn carbon fouling. Anyone inspected a barrel with a bore scope to find bronze brush scratches?
Post by: Badhabit on March 05, 2018, 05:04:57 PM
http://bisonarmory.com/content/RifleBoreLapping.pdf
Post by: Magnum_Willys on March 05, 2018, 05:30:32 PM
Post by: Bofire on March 05, 2018, 05:38:05 PM
Carl
Post by: yorketransport on March 05, 2018, 06:53:41 PM
I like to break in my barrels by firing about 100 rounds through them as fast as I can before even thinking about cleaning it. The theory is that if I get the metal hot enough, the bullets will polish out any imperfections in the now soft, malleable steel. :chuckle:But you have to use lapping ammo for it to work right :chuckle:
I don't have any scientific data to back this up, but I'm pretty sure somebody on Facebook said something like this once.
Not necessarily. Sometimes I like to just take an under sized bullet (.284 bullets work well in a .308 bore) and roll them in sand after coating the bullet with wax. The trick is to use all natural free trade/wild harvest bee's wax and coat them with sand harvested by Aborigines from the shores of ephemeral lakes in the outback of Western Australia.
You simply coat the bullet until it reaches the desired bore diameter and start shooting. It's the only way I know of to guarantee a rifle capable of shooting "lights out" or being capable for both "driving tacks" and shooting "bug holes".
When I don't have access to free trade/wild harvest wax or Aboriginal harvested sand from the shores of ephemeral lakes in Western Australia, I usually just shoot the rifle and don't worry about breaking in my barrel. I just clean it when it stops shooting well. :twocents:
Post by: Biggerhammer on March 05, 2018, 07:13:39 PM
Post by: aaronoto on March 05, 2018, 07:32:48 PM
Post by: h20hunter on March 05, 2018, 07:39:50 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on March 05, 2018, 07:46:22 PM
Post by: aaronoto on March 05, 2018, 08:21:41 PM
AA What rifle?
Ruger Precision
Post by: N7XW on March 05, 2018, 08:22:02 PM
:bow: love it!I like to break in my barrels by firing about 100 rounds through them as fast as I can before even thinking about cleaning it. The theory is that if I get the metal hot enough, the bullets will polish out any imperfections in the now soft, malleable steel. :chuckle:But you have to use lapping ammo for it to work right :chuckle:
I don't have any scientific data to back this up, but I'm pretty sure somebody on Facebook said something like this once.
Not necessarily. Sometimes I like to just take an under sized bullet (.284 bullets work well in a .308 bore) and roll them in sand after coating the bullet with wax. The trick is to use all natural free trade/wild harvest bee's wax and coat them with sand harvested by Aborigines from the shores of ephemeral lakes in the outback of Western Australia.
You simply coat the bullet until it reaches the desired bore diameter and start shooting. It's the only way I know of to guarantee a rifle capable of shooting "lights out" or being capable for both "driving tacks" and shooting "bug holes".
When I don't have access to free trade/wild harvest wax or Aboriginal harvested sand from the shores of ephemeral lakes in Western Australia, I usually just shoot the rifle and don't worry about breaking in my barrel. I just clean it when it stops shooting well. :twocents:
Post by: Magnum_Willys on March 05, 2018, 08:31:51 PM
Sometimes crazy stuff just works.
4 shots duplicated with 4 more.
Post by: mountainman on March 05, 2018, 09:32:57 PM
After firelapping - factory 338-378 w 300 grainers @ 2850.That's impressive! My 338-378 improved after firelapping, although not quite to that degree
Sometimes crazy stuff just works.
4 shots duplicated with 4 more.
Post by: Bob33 on March 05, 2018, 09:38:41 PM
I'm only biting if the bullets are shade grown, free ranging troll line caught.I like to break in my barrels by firing about 100 rounds through them as fast as I can before even thinking about cleaning it. The theory is that if I get the metal hot enough, the bullets will polish out any imperfections in the now soft, malleable steel. :chuckle:But you have to use lapping ammo for it to work right :chuckle:
I don't have any scientific data to back this up, but I'm pretty sure somebody on Facebook said something like this once.
Not necessarily. Sometimes I like to just take an under sized bullet (.284 bullets work well in a .308 bore) and roll them in sand after coating the bullet with wax. The trick is to use all natural free trade/wild harvest bee's wax and coat them with sand harvested by Aborigines from the shores of ephemeral lakes in the outback of Western Australia.
You simply coat the bullet until it reaches the desired bore diameter and start shooting. It's the only way I know of to guarantee a rifle capable of shooting "lights out" or being capable for both "driving tacks" and shooting "bug holes".
When I don't have access to free trade/wild harvest wax or Aboriginal harvested sand from the shores of ephemeral lakes in Western Australia, I usually just shoot the rifle and don't worry about breaking in my barrel. I just clean it when it stops shooting well. :twocents:
Post by: wooltie on March 05, 2018, 09:57:24 PM
I dunno I've sunk a lot of time and money into this my main rifle, so I just want to do it right even if that means doing something may not be necessary i.e. shoot 1 / clean 1. Break in may not be necessary, but if done properly, I don't see how it could make the gun perform less? :dunno:
The bronze brush is interesting. Not using one makes sense if the solvents with do the work. I've used Butch's and Eliminator. I'll try just eliminator. It's funny -- Benchmark advocates for Eliminator because Butch's is like harmful or something, while Lilja says to use Butch's and a bronze brush. I guess to each their own.
Thanks Magnum for the tip on heat tubing the brass end of the guide rod.
Post by: Biggerhammer on March 05, 2018, 10:32:01 PM
First 300 yard group 1/2" inch.
Gotta love a non-belted power house.
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The 285gr Hornadys flat crush Mulies!
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Post by: JL on March 06, 2018, 12:22:52 AM
Post by: mountainman on March 06, 2018, 01:44:18 AM
Some true snipers on this forum. I'd hate to see all the good groups! :tup: :chuckle:👌There are some amazing shooters, some actual ex-snipers I have shot with, hunted with, and competed with many of them. There are also some chest pounders on this forum that its fun to watch and read their posts. Most know who they are 😉
In regard to the OP, the recommendations from those here that follow manufacturers recommendations (the ones who build their barrels, obviously are the ones who know proper procedure, and don't just offer advice for the sake of the "snark"👍
Post by: Biggerhammer on March 06, 2018, 06:16:48 AM
Some true snipers on this forum. I'd hate to see all the good groups! :tup: :chuckle:
You would be surprised at how well allot of members here can shoot. That's what they do, thats why they are here. I'll bet on a serious varmint/Predator hunter everyday. Over a guy shooting a steel plate the size of a 747 at 431.3 Meters. When the other can hit Rockchucks laying flat (4" vertical
Target) 2 for 2 at 602 yards, from the sitting off a bipod to boot.😃
Post by: jasnt on March 06, 2018, 06:20:05 AM
If you are a compition shooter who's rifle will need cleaned after each session than a break in will help it clean out faster. If your not the kind of guy that needs to clean a rifle after every match then copper equilibrium is better. Jmo
Post by: jasnt on March 06, 2018, 06:22:12 AM
best group of my life was shot off my bipod sitting position. Who needs a bench anywaySome true snipers on this forum. I'd hate to see all the good groups! :tup: :chuckle:
You would be surprised at how well allot of members here can shoot. That's what they do, thats why they are here. I'll bet on a serious varmint/Predator hunter everyday. Over a guy shooting a steel plate the size of a 747 at 431.3 Meters. When the other can hit Rockchucks laying flat (4" vertical
Target) 2 for 2 at 602 yards, from the sitting off a bipod to boot.😃
Post by: Matth on March 06, 2018, 07:35:56 AM
After firelapping - factory 338-378 w 300 grainers @ 2850.That's awesome my factory MV doesn't shoot like that, It's probably me though.
Sometimes crazy stuff just works.
4 shots duplicated with 4 more.
Post by: mountainman on March 06, 2018, 05:31:03 PM
Post by: Calvin Rayborn on March 06, 2018, 08:15:04 PM
Post by: mountainman on March 06, 2018, 08:58:23 PM
Don't make a lick o difference. :twocents:Not so much in accuracy, but Definetly lessens cleanings between shot strings, and makes those cleanings simple and quick. Proven! 👍
Post by: Magnum_Willys on March 06, 2018, 10:46:17 PM
Gotta bed those weatherbys to get them to shoot. And with the big jump they like some bullets and some they don't. I couldn't get the bergers dialed in.After firelapping - factory 338-378 w 300 grainers @ 2850.That's awesome my factory MV doesn't shoot like that, It's probably me though.
Sometimes crazy stuff just works.
4 shots duplicated with 4 more.
Post by: Matth on March 07, 2018, 06:53:55 AM
Post by: Badhabit on March 11, 2018, 05:40:06 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on March 11, 2018, 07:01:37 PM
Post by: Badhabit on March 11, 2018, 08:23:43 PM
Post by: Badhabit on March 26, 2018, 11:32:03 AM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on March 26, 2018, 02:30:40 PM
Post by: Bob33 on March 26, 2018, 02:40:47 PM
“I broke my barrel in, and it shoots great.” What would have happened if you hadn’t broken it in? Would it still shoot great?
“I didn’t break my barrel in, and it shoots great.” What would have happened if you had broke your barrel in? Would it shoot better?
We’ll never know the answers.
Since every barrel is different and there’s no way to test both conditions, drawing conclusions that apply to every gun is essentially impossible.
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 26, 2018, 10:16:49 PM
I would add that I’ve never seen anybody say it’s absolutely necessary but I have seen it called a complete scam. If a barrel fouls heavy and quick, it’s something to consider
I’ve never thought it was -directly- an accuracy thing. Just a clean less often thing. :tup:
Post by: wooltie on March 27, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
I did the shoot 1 / clean 1 approach for the first 10 shots. Then, I fired 3 shot groups, cleaning after each group.
The patches were a dark, vibrant blue for the first 5 shots. The 6th patch did not have this dark, primary color blue. Thereafter, the shots were more bluish-green and lighter in color. Once I hit the 10-20 shot range, I saw no difference in patch color--just a light blue-ish green. I cleaned with Butches, but now use Boretech eliminator.
I used the same 150g soft point ammo for the break in. Around round 20 I fired some 180g accubond handloads. I cleaned the barrel after firing the first handload. The patch was that dark, vibrant, primary color blue. Subsequent handloads did not have this primary color blue, but exhibited the light blu-ish green color.
I don't know if the break in made any difference, but I did observe a difference in the patches going from primary color blue to light blue-ish green, and I haven't seen this primary color blue since.
So something was changing in the process. I called the good folks and benchmark who said that once the barrel is effectively broken in after that dark blue stuff is gone.
Post by: jaymark6655 on March 27, 2018, 10:13:48 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on March 27, 2018, 11:31:32 AM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on March 27, 2018, 12:17:22 PM
We are talking a box of shells and if reloading need up to half a box to dial in what will be loads anyway. Small investment overall.