Post by: Switchback on March 08, 2018, 04:10:04 PM
I'm pretty heavily leaning toward the Smokercraft Alaskan 15. But Smokercraft also makes the Big Fish 14. The Big Fish is appealing because I can load it up with more gear, and I like the layout better. It also has a livewell. What concerns me is the shape of the hull. Or the bow. I'm not a boat terminologist. But the front of the boat is shaped like a canoe, which is pretty much the opposite of all the other boats I've used.
I assume they do it for more usable room, and stability. But I also assume it might suck in rough water? I have experience with 14' Lunds in 2-3' chop and it sucks, and I assume the Big Fish would suck even more?
Tell me the downsides of it, there have to be some! There's really nothing about it online anywhere. I don't want to buy a boat and then realize it's terrible.
Thanks!
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on March 08, 2018, 04:13:43 PM
I like the one with the canvas topper.
Post by: NRA4LIFE on March 08, 2018, 04:39:59 PM
Post by: Stein on March 08, 2018, 05:18:12 PM
I ran a 14' Smokercraft in the salt for several years, you just have to pick your days and areas.
Post by: Crunchy on March 08, 2018, 05:29:09 PM
Post by: Encore 280 on March 08, 2018, 06:54:11 PM
Post by: Stein on March 08, 2018, 08:51:13 PM
Easier to beach a tin boat than a glass one if ya had or want to. Tin ones may ride a bit rougher in a chop but then a good sailor tries not to get caught in those situations. Be safe.
:yeah:
The best part about those boats is you can launch when and where others can't and avoid the crowds. Even on my bigger boat, I went with aluminum for the ease of cleanup, lack of polishing required and the ability to run it up on any beach without crying.
Post by: Switchback on March 09, 2018, 10:21:21 AM
Definitely set on aluminum vs. glass, because about 80% of my use will be lake fishing while camping, so I need a boat I can beach near the campsite.
Will just have to pick days on the Sound wisely – I'll mostly just be heading out to drop crab and shrimp pots, and then squid fish in the colder months. I know this won't be a setup to regularly go fishing up in the strait or anything like that!
Post by: Henrydog on March 09, 2018, 10:25:15 AM
Post by: Alchase on March 09, 2018, 10:55:08 AM
If you do get the 14 get it with the split seat instead of the middle bench. Makes a word of difference in how you can stow gear and move around.
They are fantastic lake boats when paired with the right motor. I used 15 hp 4 stroke Yamaha on both, and the 15 ft would do 28 MPH at WOT, and still troll down to 0.5 MPH.
I you are taking it on the sound, you would want to very weather aware. I did Point-No-Point, Hood Canal too many times to count, and Point Defiance many times, but a heavier boat would handle the wind and swells better.
Post by: Switchback on March 09, 2018, 11:28:29 AM
I had a 13ft Smoker Craft Alaskan Deep-V and A 15 ft Smokercraft Alaskan Deep-V w/split seat.
If you do get the 14 get it with the split seat instead of the middle bench. Makes a word of difference in how you can stow gear and move around.
They are fantastic lake boats when paired with the right motor. I used 15 hp 4 stroke Yamaha on both, and the 15 ft would do 28 MPH at WOT, and still troll down to 0.5 MPH.
I you are taking it on the sound, you would want to very weather aware. I did Point-No-Point, Hood Canal too many times to count, and Point Defiance many times, but a heavier boat would handle the wind and swells better.
Split seats in the middle are a must – especially since I plan on crabbing and squidding out of it. The Alaskan 15 has them, and the Big Fish does as well – and the Big Fish seems a little more open, plus it has a livewell, and the bow is level and easier to get a trolling motor on there. I attached a picture of the Big Fish layout. Only thing I don't like better about the Big Fish is the bow, very snub-nosed instead of the longer and more angled bow of the Alaskan. Just seems like it'd be a lot wetter of a ride, but I suppose either boat is not gonna be great if the waves pick up.
Whichever one I get I'm planning on a 25hp motor or maybe a 30 – I got caught in real bad wind one time in a 14' Lund with a 9.9, was miserable getting back to the launch.
Post by: Alchase on March 09, 2018, 08:37:37 PM
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 09, 2018, 09:24:02 PM
A 14’ Lund SST (Big Fish) will plane at about 10-12 knots and ride heavier water at a lower and safer speed while a deeper vee will require a few more knots and be less sea worthy IMO. Also having a console steer vs. a tiller steer on a 14’ boat greatly decreases the useable area of the small boat and makes the captains ride much rougher.
If I were to get a 14’ class boat I would opt for the broader bow and tiller steer engine if I were planning (or preparing) on being in rough seas.
Post by: Alchase on March 09, 2018, 10:04:15 PM
If I were to get a 14’ class boat I would opt for the broader bow and tiller steer engine if I were planning (or preparing) on being in rough seas.
Totally disagree, my 15 ft Alaskan had the same 15 HP 4-stroke Yamaha without controls.
Adding the forward controls made that boat many times more pleasant to drive in all conditions. Especially by yourself. It also got up on plane better with the weight in the center of the boat. The difference was dramatic.
I also had a 10 ft Livingston with a 8 hp Yamaha. I installed mid boat controls, and it was an improvement, especially trolling on the salt, Point-no-point, etc..
No one is saying this size boat is "optimal" for sea state 4 or better, but you can get a ton of use if weather aware.
Post by: Skillet on March 09, 2018, 10:37:46 PM
Get whatever floorplan you like, you're not going to be busting through an honest 2' chop in either. In a light sub 1' wind chop that will still allow you to plane, the hull form of the 15' will ride significantly better.
Post by: Crunchy on March 09, 2018, 11:09:02 PM
16' open tiller PA special "New Bay."
2016 Yamaha 40hp tiller 80ish hours still several years of warranty left
Scotty electric DR
Lowrance 5" with RAM mount
19 gallon in bow gas tank
Lights, bilge, fuse panel
Great shape EZ Loader trailer
Flat fiberglas floor
2 captains chairs with arms rests like new purchased from Uitlander out of his NR
Ill throw in some crab pots
$5500 ****New Price****obo all offers considered
Post by: Alchase on March 10, 2018, 08:16:27 PM
Tiller all the way in a boat that size. A wheel wastes so much room and reduces overall utility, imho. Ride is WAY better in the back in rougher water, far less amplification of movement. Been there.
Get whatever floorplan you like, you're not going to be busting through an honest 2' chop in either. In a light sub 1' wind chop that will still allow you to plane, the hull form of the 15' will ride significantly better.
LMAO
My wheel and controls mounted to the side of the boat forward and above the right side split seat.
No floor space taken up at all.
Smokercraft boats are very light boats. Having all the weight in the back, allows the bow to be caught by the wind, more than a balance load would.
I had the boat in both configurations, there is no comparison.
This is the same console I had on my 15 ft, but on a 13 ft Smokercraft.
http://ymarina.channelbladelive.com/searchengine/print.aspx?diid=2428078&Type=A&indid=1&bvdid=19681
I will make a correction, the vertical support takes up a small bit of floor space. But not significant.
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 10, 2018, 09:20:58 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 10, 2018, 09:34:56 PM
http://www.boatstoreusa.com/steering/ezy-glide-stick-iii-boat-steering-model-870/
Also not all steering wheels have a lot of turn lock to lock, I've driven a 14 foot aluminium jet boat over 500hp and the wheel didn't make a full turn lock to lock, it was about 3/4 turn. You did not take your hands off that wheel when driving to "spin the wheel around" like a typical pleasure boat. Your hands stayed put at the 10 and 2 position lock to lock (they had too, or you'd loose your grip). It's all about the ratio and many steering systems have different ratio's available.
edit
I see he's talking about salt water though, so I agree with a tiller. I watched those Alaskans out of Seward go in pretty rough water with a small tiller that left me shaking my head but I suspect it was pretty normal for them. I don't have a lot of salt water experience.
I'm used to rivers with logs in them so I like to see. My favorite is a stick control with stand up center console with grab bars. Your legs are shock absorbers and you can see everything.
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 10, 2018, 10:05:32 PM
ditch the wheel and get a stick control, they're quick as a tiller and you can sit forward and enjoy the better visibility over the bow.
http://www.boatstoreusa.com/steering/ezy-glide-stick-iii-boat-steering-model-870/
Also not all steering wheels have a lot of turn lock to lock, I've driven a 14 foot aluminium jet boat over 500hp and the wheel didn't make a full turn lock to lock, it was about 3/4 turn. You did not take your hands off that wheel when driving to "spin the wheel around" like a typical pleasure boat. Your hands stayed put at the 10 and 2 position lock to lock (they had too, or you'd loose your grip). It's all about the ratio and many steering systems have different ratio's available.
edit
I see he's talking about salt water though, so I agree with a tiller. I watched those Alaskans out of Seward go in pretty rough water with a small tiller that left me shaking my head but I suspect it was pretty normal for them. I don't have a lot of salt water experience.
I'm used to rivers with logs in them so I like to see. My favorite is a stick control with stand up center console. Your legs are shock absorbers and you can see everything.
A lot of east coast working boats run the stick controls. From what I have heard the take a bit to get used to, but mega overkill on a 15’ skiff with less than a 40hp outboard.
I have never been able to find a cable option with quick lock to lock ratios. Those 1/2-1 turn systems are usually commercial hydraulic units that would near double the cost of a 15’ skiff and are not commonly available.
Visibility amidships when you need to be on the wheel and throttle is only marginally better that sitting at a tiller, and standing at a tiller is easier than at a side console. There is a reason the majority of jet sleds are tiller.
Post by: KFhunter on March 10, 2018, 11:03:48 PM
but like we agreed for the salt I'd just stick to tiller.
Post by: Alchase on March 11, 2018, 07:27:31 AM
Sorry Alchase, I will still disagree with you. On a boat of that size reaction time is much more important and having to turn a wheel 3-4 turns lock to lock is a huge hindrance when you need to make quick corrections. I have always preferred having an anchor and rode in the bow and fuel amidships. Ride is smoother in the stern with a tiller and you have more flexibility on how you trim the boat. There is also the consideration that if you put on a console you typically gain weight in an already load limited boat with the addition of a console, battery, hydraulic trim/tilt, and electric start. You can run without all that with a console but it is a pain, or have the same stuff with a tiller unnecessarily. When seas are really nasty and I need to react quick there is no comparison between a console and a tiller, and having the ability to get the bow up easier when necessary is big. A console on a small 15’ or less boat is more of an affectation or a way to feel like your boat is bigger than it really is. My .02...
J_H_Nimrod, You obviously make valid points, but he is not talking about a skiff to be used in rough water out on the salt. He is talking about a riveted lake boat to be used for occasional crabbing.
Both the models he asked about the only room for a gas tank is in the rear in the well next to the motor. The floors are ribbed and curved. Our neighbor on Hood Canal Put his tank under the middle bench. He loves it. Both models Switchback is talking about, do not have the middle bench. The consoles I bought from Smokercraft for small boats, are aluminum, with the wheel and throttle. One hydraulic line and one throttle cable.
No battery, hydraulic trim/tilt, or electric start necessary.
Switchback, either of your choices will do. I would go for the biggest you can afford.
One add on I have added to all of my small boats are "Smart Tabs", they are a piece of cake to install and help a small boat and get you on a plane quickly and reduce cavitation.
http://nauticusinc.com/smart-tabs/
Post by: KFhunter on March 11, 2018, 08:05:13 AM
I have a Kalamath 14', it's made for cutting through bigger water (for a small boat) but it's not suitable to hanging over the side pulling pots as it's tippy. I've never pulled crab pots with it, but I have pulled crawdad pots with it in lakes and they weigh a lot less than a crab pot and still I tip the boat even doing that, a loaded crab pot might get hairy.
Actually, I use a Columbia river anchor system on my Dad's boat, it's slick. You stick an anchor ball on the rope then drive, the ball float slides down the rope and submerges until it pops the anchor off the bottom then you keep on driving until the ball float smacks the anchor, then you just pull in slack line. You could do that with a crab pot in a small boat and save your arms and not tip the boat pulling a stuck pot. Drop the pot in outgoing tide, fish during the slack, then pick it up in the incoming tide (or vise verse) - the anchor ball float would be perfect for that.
Post by: Alchase on March 11, 2018, 08:27:43 AM
We use our 13 ft Boston Whaler with a manual crank usually for crab. You get a pretty good workout hauling a couple pots, LOL.
It stays up at our cabin on Hood Canal year round.
Post by: KFhunter on March 11, 2018, 08:30:08 AM
You want to make sure you get a rope lock that you can use on multiple lines, a lot of anchor pullers stay on one line..but the orvals ez pull snaps on and off so you can use it on multiple lines. The rope lock I use stays on the anchor line and would be difficult to switch from line to line, I haven't tried the orvals ez pull but it has good reviews I wouldn't hesitate to try it on crab pots.
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 11, 2018, 09:28:32 AM
Whatever you do, don’t try one of these line pull systems tied off to the stern! Always pull tied to the bow.
Post by: Alchase on March 11, 2018, 01:44:41 PM
This is what I use
You want to make sure you get a rope lock that you can use on multiple lines, a lot of anchor pullers stay on one line..but the orvals ez pull snaps on and off so you can use it on multiple lines. The rope lock I use stays on the anchor line and would be difficult to switch from line to line, I haven't tried the orvals ez pull but it has good reviews I wouldn't hesitate to try it on crab pots.
Pretty slick! Sure beats our old knuckle busting hand crank, LOL
Post by: KFhunter on March 11, 2018, 04:27:06 PM
I used a similar unit and it worked very well for an anchor but I did not have great luck using it with pots. I used it on shrimp pots in 400’ of water and the pot just has too much drag for the systems I have tried. For small pots it would probably work fine, but I would just prefer to hand pull with light pots under 100’. One way I did use it pulling pots was as a brake so I could rest.
Whatever you do, don’t try one of these line pull systems tied off to the stern! Always pull tied to the bow.
:yeah:
even on the bigger boat we use the bow and just follow the line back to the anchor keeping it to the starboard side where the driver can see it so it's clear of the prop, then over the anchor, then keep going in the same direction and it's always popped up. We do break a zip tie once in a while if the anchor gets hung on a rock and trips, flipping over to release.
Post by: Switchback on March 12, 2018, 09:23:19 AM
I do have two more questions, because I'm new to saltwater. Is it best to get a saltwater trolling motor? I'd mostly use it in lakes, but I imagine myself having a sweet squid setup at some point, and it would be nice to have it instead of an anchor. Maybe people use it for salmon too.
Also, is a handheld VHF radio something I should get? I really don't think I'm ever going to be out in the actual ocean, but I'm not sure if I need one for weather updates or something. Doesn't seem necessary but figured I'd check.
Post by: Crunchy on March 12, 2018, 09:50:22 AM
From Honda website
The BF40 and BF50 are an outstanding combination of Honda’s legendary four-stroke engineering and our latest outboard innovations. The result? The lightest, most compact engines in their class. And because they are from Honda, they’re loaded with the unparalleled features and technology you want.
Like BLAST (Boosted Low Speed Torque). It’s activated by a quick movement of the throttle for vastly improved hole shots.
Programmed Electronic Fuel Injection, for easy starts, instant throttle response, slower trolling speeds, and overall better fuel economy.
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 12, 2018, 11:58:05 AM
I vote no to the trolling motor on a boat that size. With most of the newer engines you are fine at trolling speeds for prolonged periods.
Post by: Skillet on March 12, 2018, 12:37:48 PM
I would recommend a good handheld VHF if you are heading out in saltwater or around any shipping lanes. It is a good emergency device to have for a little peace of mind and comes in handy for weather checks.
They're not cheap, but this is a good idea if you can swing it. If you ever find yourself in the salt out of cell coverage, it is a pretty important tool. Here's mine - it lives in my "bug out" Pelican case and goes to shore with deckhands if I stay on the boat. Hold a charge for a long time.
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 12, 2018, 07:42:25 PM
I would recommend a good handheld VHF if you are heading out in saltwater or around any shipping lanes. It is a good emergency device to have for a little peace of mind and comes in handy for weather checks.
They're not cheap, but this is a good idea if you can swing it. If you ever find yourself in the salt out of cell coverage, it is a pretty important tool. Here's mine - it lives in my "bug out" Pelican case and goes to shore with deckhands if I stay on the boat. Hold a charge for a long time.
Ha! I have the same exact one. I also have a similar Standard Horizon that has worked very well. One note on battery powered radios, make sure you get a radio with a positive shutoff and not a live power button. The live power button models will drain a battery even if they are not powered on.
Post by: Alchase on March 13, 2018, 04:52:51 PM
I would recommend a good handheld VHF if you are heading out in saltwater or around any shipping lanes. It is a good emergency device to have for a little peace of mind and comes in handy for weather checks.
I vote no to the trolling motor on a boat that size. With most of the newer engines you are fine at trolling speeds for prolonged periods.
Agreed, my 15 hp Yamaha 4 stroke, would idle at 0.5 mph, perfect Kokanee trolling speed, LOL
Swtchback you have some great Kokanee fishing 20 miles south of you.
Post by: Calvin Rayborn on March 17, 2018, 09:49:31 PM
I would recommend a good handheld VHF if you are heading out in saltwater or around any shipping lanes. It is a good emergency device to have for a little peace of mind and comes in handy for weather checks.
They're not cheap, but this is a good idea if you can swing it. If you ever find yourself in the salt out of cell coverage, it is a pretty important tool. Here's mine - it lives in my "bug out" Pelican case and goes to shore with deckhands if I stay on the boat. Hold a charge for a long time.
Break/Break - Comin' into the locks!
Post by: Switchback on March 21, 2018, 12:59:04 PM
Definitely will pick up a handheld VHF radio – seems like a good choice, especially for $150 or less.
And I'm pretty set on a trolling motor – I'll be using this a lot in lakes, and for walleye and bass. Love the Minn Kota iPilot series, the remote and gps route setting and spot lock are great features. But the saltwater one is $1,500 and the freshwater one is $1,000 – so I was wondering if you need a trolling motor for saltwater at all, or if I could just get the freshwater one and take it off when fishing the Sound. 25hp Yamaha on a 14' Lund, I'm not sure if the main motor will troll slow enough or not.
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 21, 2018, 06:52:46 PM