Post by: Wingin it on April 08, 2018, 07:20:10 PM
Post by: elkaholic123 on April 08, 2018, 07:55:13 PM
10 mpg :yike: plenty of power though.
Post by: no.cen.wa on April 08, 2018, 08:14:18 PM
But, you would look cool in that huge Ford truck, just get your wallet out! 8)
Post by: High Climber on April 08, 2018, 08:15:31 PM
Post by: jackelope on April 08, 2018, 08:37:54 PM
Post by: jackelope on April 08, 2018, 08:39:01 PM
If you don’t tow with it, do you really need a super duty? Just sacrificing fuel costs for what? You can tow 12k with a half ton F150.With that said, a lot of my construction company customers are going away from diesels. Maintenance and repair costs are big, DEF is a pain in the butt, etc.
Post by: Skillet on April 08, 2018, 09:51:12 PM
Now that I don't regularly tow long distance and/or heavy loads, the expense of diesel maintenance and newer model emission issues aren't worth the slim benefits. If I bought a newer truck, I'd buy gas.
Post by: C-Money on April 09, 2018, 07:39:30 AM
Post by: lord grizzly on April 09, 2018, 07:44:57 AM
Post by: jjhunter on April 09, 2018, 12:00:08 PM
Post by: JWEBB on April 09, 2018, 08:55:14 PM
If you don’t tow with it, do you really need a super duty? Just sacrificing fuel costs for what? You can tow 12k with a half ton F150.
I'd like to see someone pull 12k with an F150 up vantage :chuckle:.
Post by: Timberstalker on April 09, 2018, 09:01:41 PM
If you don’t tow with it, do you really need a super duty? Just sacrificing fuel costs for what? You can tow 12k with a half ton F150.
I'd like to see someone pull 12k with an F150 up vantage :chuckle:.
You’d be surprised what the new Ecoboosts are capable of.
And no I don’t own one, but they do well with 12K.
Post by: syoungs on April 09, 2018, 09:28:11 PM
I went gas back in 2008...have not missed diesel one bit. I would encourage a hard look at the 6.2, or a V10 if you can find one.
Love my 3v v10, does everything I've ever needed it to do.
Post by: Skillet on April 09, 2018, 10:09:19 PM
None of us "need" the bigger torque numbers the marketing departments have suggested we do, but we buy them anyway.
Post by: jackelope on April 09, 2018, 10:23:17 PM
If you don’t tow with it, do you really need a super duty? Just sacrificing fuel costs for what? You can tow 12k with a half ton F150.
I'd like to see someone pull 12k with an F150 up vantage :chuckle:.
You’d be amazed. And it’s a v6.
Post by: follow maggie on April 09, 2018, 10:56:12 PM
Heavy Duty GMC commercial truck engine in the late 40's/ early 50's was a 302 cu in inline 6, 165 hp and 260-ish ft/# of torque. That engine powered a good part of America's economic post-war boom. Pulling 45,000# with it was normal business, even up the Vantage Grade.
None of us "need" the bigger torque numbers the marketing departments have suggested we do, but we buy them anyway.
It’ll do it, but few of us like traveling on the highway at 20 mph
Post by: huntnphool on April 10, 2018, 12:02:16 AM
A Toyota can "pull/tow" my boat on paper, but I'd hate to have to stop quickly at 50+mph, especially on a downhill grade with one.
I'll save the "buttons" discussion for another thread. :chuckle:
Post by: Miles on April 10, 2018, 02:56:27 AM
If you don’t tow with it, do you really need a super duty? Just sacrificing fuel costs for what? You can tow 12k with a half ton F150.
I'd like to see someone pull 12k with an F150 up vantage :chuckle:.
You’d be amazed. And it’s a v6.
I’ve got a 41’ fifth wheel that’s 12k dry. I really doubt an f150 would last long towing it up and down a pass. If anyone wants to give it a try, please take video and post it.
Jackelope, when did you move to the sales department? :chuckle:
FYI
And if you’re spending the money on a diesel, why not get a 3/4 ton? Good mileage and more towing capacity..
Post by: huntnphool on April 10, 2018, 04:23:14 AM
If you don’t tow with it, do you really need a super duty? Just sacrificing fuel costs for what? You can tow 12k with a half ton F150.
I'd like to see someone pull 12k with an F150 up vantage :chuckle:.
You’d be amazed. And it’s a v6.
I’ve got a 41’ fifth wheel that’s 12k dry. I really doubt an f150 would last long towing it up and down a pass. If anyone wants to give it a try, please take video and post it.
Jackelope, when did you move to the sales department? :chuckle:
FYI
And if you’re spending the money on a diesel, why not get a 3/4 ton? Good mileage and more towing capacity..
I'd like to see that 3.0L V6 Powerstroke in the Expedition!
Post by: Viking360 on April 10, 2018, 05:56:51 AM
Post by: Wingin it on April 10, 2018, 06:23:54 PM
Post by: C-Money on April 11, 2018, 06:56:40 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 13, 2018, 10:57:10 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/c58d1dc59239255ef8b6e982b0164a2b.jpg)
Not a sales guy, Miles. Just don’t understand why someone who admittedly has no need for a diesel would buy one and submit themselves to the added maintenance cost and purchase price of one. Especially when you can buy an f150 or any other brand half ton gas truck that will tow a lot, cost less money to purchase and less money to maintain. And I guess I was wrong. It’s rated to tow 13,200 pounds. Not 12,000.
Post by: Thenewguy on April 14, 2018, 09:06:24 AM
Post by: ryan2202 on April 14, 2018, 09:30:15 AM
A lot of people don't like the idea of DEF - but I haven't had an issue. DEF needs to be refilled at every oil change - shouldn't need to top it off before then.
My truck 6.7L is much better for towing and hauling that my 6.2L.
Post by: Miles on April 16, 2018, 03:17:48 AM
Sure the gas rig will tow some weight, but all things equal on the heavier end of towing, I’ll bet the diesel far outlives the gas rig that was tached out on every hill. I don’t see gas powered semi trucks all over the place. Think about that for a second if you plan on towing.
I’ll stick to my diesel. Here’s the mileage for a morning commute to work, mostly hwy. 3/4 ton. I check periodically and the computer system has never been off more than .6 mpgs.
Post by: browney5er on April 16, 2018, 05:23:18 AM
Post by: browney5er on April 16, 2018, 05:49:03 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/22d8153eee51f2a70e31b428778c16f2.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/c58d1dc59239255ef8b6e982b0164a2b.jpg)
Not a sales guy, Miles. Just don’t understand why someone who admittedly has no need for a diesel would buy one and submit themselves to the added maintenance cost and purchase price of one. Especially when you can buy an f150 or any other brand half ton gas truck that will tow a lot, cost less money to purchase and less money to maintain. And I guess I was wrong. It’s rated to tow 13,200 pounds. Not 12,000.
So you’re saying if I have an 11,000 lb 5th wheel that I tow I should be fine with an f-150 and its half ton frame and half ton brakes and half ton transmission. As long as it’s under 13,200 I have no need for anything larger. I beg to differ and if you say that’s not what you said than you better reread your post.
Post by: Miles on April 16, 2018, 07:29:59 AM
I’m curious what kind of mileage you get when you go back up the hill to your house.
Lol. I average 21 - 23 home. It’s a mix of up and down between Colorado Springs and Denver. Speeds are 65 - 80.
Post by: Miles on April 16, 2018, 07:51:12 AM
Post by: baker5150 on April 16, 2018, 08:44:57 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/22d8153eee51f2a70e31b428778c16f2.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/c58d1dc59239255ef8b6e982b0164a2b.jpg)
Not a sales guy, Miles. Just don’t understand why someone who admittedly has no need for a diesel would buy one and submit themselves to the added maintenance cost and purchase price of one. Especially when you can buy an f150 or any other brand half ton gas truck that will tow a lot, cost less money to purchase and less money to maintain. And I guess I was wrong. It’s rated to tow 13,200 pounds. Not 12,000.
So you’re saying if I have an 11,000 lb 5th wheel that I tow I should be fine with an f-150 and its half ton frame and half ton brakes and half ton transmission. As long as it’s under 13,200 I have no need for anything larger. I beg to differ and if you say that’s not what you said than you better reread your post.
I imagine in order to advertise this towing capacity they are required to build a frame, braking system, a trans to handle that load.
You need to stop thinking of this truck as a 1/2 ton.
Post by: Miles on April 16, 2018, 09:22:19 AM
Sorry, it does... just has to stop the truck and trailer at a speed of 20 mph in 80 ft or less. Doesn’t say anything about stopping a 13k 5’er on a 6% + downhill grade. Lol. It primarily focuses on speed and acceleration.
Post by: Timberstalker on April 16, 2018, 09:28:27 AM
If I’m remembering correctly, the standardized towing test does not factor in braking. It’s basically a hill climb. They don’t care what happens after you reach the top.
Isn't that what the runaway gravel ramps are for? :dunno:
Post by: baker5150 on April 16, 2018, 09:36:19 AM
If I’m remembering correctly, the standardized towing test does not factor in braking. It’s basically a hill climb. They don’t care what happens after you reach the top.
Sorry, it does... just has to stop the truck and trailer at a speed of 20 mph in 80 ft or less. Doesn’t say anything about stopping a 13k 5’er on a 6% + downhill grade. Lol. It primarily focuses on speed and acceleration.
So the lawyers at Ford allow them to rate a towing capacity based on a hill climb? Doubt that. There is a massive amount of engineering involved in what they want to get out of these trucks. These companies aren't going to advertise something this truck can't handle safely, that's financial suicide.
Post by: Stein on April 16, 2018, 09:55:26 AM
http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/towing/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard/
Post by: jstone on April 16, 2018, 10:32:07 AM
Post by: Miles on April 16, 2018, 11:08:48 AM
If I’m remembering correctly, the standardized towing test does not factor in braking. It’s basically a hill climb. They don’t care what happens after you reach the top.
Sorry, it does... just has to stop the truck and trailer at a speed of 20 mph in 80 ft or less. Doesn’t say anything about stopping a 13k 5’er on a 6% + downhill grade. Lol. It primarily focuses on speed and acceleration.
So the lawyers at Ford allow them to rate a towing capacity based on a hill climb? Doubt that. There is a massive amount of engineering involved in what they want to get out of these trucks. These companies aren't going to advertise something this truck can't handle safely, that's financial suicide.
Read the towing standard linked in the post below yours. Then tell me how far off I am... I tow 12-15k regularly. A couple years ago I did a lot more research then the weekend warrior trying to tow a 5’er with his f-150. Unless things have changed, I stand by my initial post on what they focus on.
Post by: Timberstalker on April 16, 2018, 12:19:08 PM
If I’m remembering correctly, the standardized towing test does not factor in braking. It’s basically a hill climb. They don’t care what happens after you reach the top.
Sorry, it does... just has to stop the truck and trailer at a speed of 20 mph in 80 ft or less. Doesn’t say anything about stopping a 13k 5’er on a 6% + downhill grade. Lol. It primarily focuses on speed and acceleration.
So the lawyers at Ford allow them to rate a towing capacity based on a hill climb? Doubt that. There is a massive amount of engineering involved in what they want to get out of these trucks. These companies aren't going to advertise something this truck can't handle safely, that's financial suicide.
Read the towing standard linked in the post below yours. Then tell me how far off I am... I tow 12-15k regularly. A couple years ago I did a lot more research then the weekend warrior trying to tow a 5’er with his f-150. Unless things have changed, I stand by my initial post on what they focus on.
While I won't argue that your Duramax is a better tow rig then the F-150, the link you mention does provide Brake Testing.
The only dog in the fight I have, is that a Cummins is better than a D-max - but I'll leave it alone.
Post by: jackelope on April 16, 2018, 12:31:50 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/22d8153eee51f2a70e31b428778c16f2.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/c58d1dc59239255ef8b6e982b0164a2b.jpg)
Not a sales guy, Miles. Just don’t understand why someone who admittedly has no need for a diesel would buy one and submit themselves to the added maintenance cost and purchase price of one. Especially when you can buy an f150 or any other brand half ton gas truck that will tow a lot, cost less money to purchase and less money to maintain. And I guess I was wrong. It’s rated to tow 13,200 pounds. Not 12,000.
So you’re saying if I have an 11,000 lb 5th wheel that I tow I should be fine with an f-150 and its half ton frame and half ton brakes and half ton transmission. As long as it’s under 13,200 I have no need for anything larger. I beg to differ and if you say that’s not what you said than you better reread your post.
I said it’s rated to tow that much weight. How it does I have no idea. Totally not the point of the thread though either, but since it’s now jacked, if a truck is rated to tow X amount of weight, how is it not capable of towing X amount of weight? For the record I’m a huge fan of overkill when it comes to towing. I don’t think I’d ever want to tow 12k with a 1/2 ton truck. But the truck is rated to tow that much. So that means the frame and the brakes and the cooling system and everything that goes along with it is designed to handle that much weight.
Post by: jackelope on April 16, 2018, 12:34:55 PM
I’m curious how many that responded to this thread actually tow 12 - 13k on a regular basis...
Sure the gas rig will tow some weight, but all things equal on the heavier end of towing, I’ll bet the diesel far outlives the gas rig that was tached out on every hill. I don’t see gas powered semi trucks all over the place. Think about that for a second if you plan on towing.
I’ll stick to my diesel. Here’s the mileage for a morning commute to work, mostly hwy. 3/4 ton. I check periodically and the computer system has never been off more than .6 mpgs.
I’ve never towed 12k pounds in my life. Maybe 7000-8000 a few times. But that’s not my point.
Post by: jackelope on April 16, 2018, 12:36:08 PM
I am entertaining the idea of a new (to me anyway) truck. I do tow a few times a year but not so much that it's a major factor. It sounds like they are both pretty solid motors. What are your experiences with these two options? Fuel economy, life expectancy, etc.Here’s the original post in the thread just for keeping things on track.
Post by: baker5150 on April 16, 2018, 01:03:04 PM
If I’m remembering correctly, the standardized towing test does not factor in braking. It’s basically a hill climb. They don’t care what happens after you reach the top.
Sorry, it does... just has to stop the truck and trailer at a speed of 20 mph in 80 ft or less. Doesn’t say anything about stopping a 13k 5’er on a 6% + downhill grade. Lol. It primarily focuses on speed and acceleration.
So the lawyers at Ford allow them to rate a towing capacity based on a hill climb? Doubt that. There is a massive amount of engineering involved in what they want to get out of these trucks. These companies aren't going to advertise something this truck can't handle safely, that's financial suicide.
Read the towing standard linked in the post below yours. Then tell me how far off I am... I tow 12-15k regularly. A couple years ago I did a lot more research then the weekend warrior trying to tow a 5’er with his f-150. Unless things have changed, I stand by my initial post on what they focus on.
Yeah I read that. I can't help but think there is more to it than that. Like proving frame, and braking engineering. Maybe not, but I sure hope so.
Especially considering how many guys are out there towing well beyond a trucks capacity.
Post by: Special T on April 16, 2018, 02:25:10 PM
Braking is less of an issue for the half ton because if the electric brakes work on your trailer they do most of the work. If you want to be concerned about the hauling capacity worry about keeping the transmission cool, since the f150 is going to be a juice box. While a gas engine isn't as efficient as a diesel, it will work for the occasional use. Many folks forget about the gas engines used in many for the F series dump/delivery trucks of the 70s. Going back and forth over the pass would be hardest on the truck, but once again this has more to do with the transmission than anything else. Using a truck at max capacity occasionally is one thing. Using it several times a week is something else.
I wouldn't hesitate to use a gas truck to haul capacity up and down the I5 corridor, or the occasional trip over the pass. It will take longer, and be less efficient. The real question becomes how often, and how much.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: jackelope on April 16, 2018, 03:26:11 PM
Im gonna drop my 2c in here because im quite certain that there are only a couple of other folks that may have put more miles on towing behind a pickup than me.
Braking is less of an issue for the half ton because if the electric brakes work on your trailer they do most of the work. If you want to be concerned about the hauling capacity worry about keeping the transmission cool, since the f150 is going to be a juice box. While a gas engine isn't as efficient as a diesel, it will work for the occasional use. Many folks forget about the gas engines used in many for the F series dump/delivery trucks of the 70s. Going back and forth over the pass would be hardest on the truck, but once again this has more to do with the transmission than anything else. Using a truck at max capacity occasionally is one thing. Using it several times a week is something else.
I wouldn't hesitate to use a gas truck to haul capacity up and down the I5 corridor, or the occasional trip over the pass. It will take longer, and be less efficient. The real question becomes how often, and how much.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
But this thread is about a truck that will be used to possibly tow a few times a year.
Post by: Timberstalker on April 16, 2018, 03:39:50 PM
Im gonna drop my 2c in here because im quite certain that there are only a couple of other folks that may have put more miles on towing behind a pickup than me.
Braking is less of an issue for the half ton because if the electric brakes work on your trailer they do most of the work. If you want to be concerned about the hauling capacity worry about keeping the transmission cool, since the f150 is going to be a juice box. While a gas engine isn't as efficient as a diesel, it will work for the occasional use. Many folks forget about the gas engines used in many for the F series dump/delivery trucks of the 70s. Going back and forth over the pass would be hardest on the truck, but once again this has more to do with the transmission than anything else. Using a truck at max capacity occasionally is one thing. Using it several times a week is something else.
I wouldn't hesitate to use a gas truck to haul capacity up and down the I5 corridor, or the occasional trip over the pass. It will take longer, and be less efficient. The real question becomes how often, and how much.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
But this thread is about a truck that will be used to possibly tow a few times a year.
That was 2 pages ago, so can't we derail? :dunno:
Post by: Special T on April 16, 2018, 03:40:40 PM
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: Miles on April 16, 2018, 04:42:17 PM
I’m curious what kind of mileage you get when you go back up the hill to your house.
Here you go..
Post by: Wingin it on April 16, 2018, 06:46:46 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on April 17, 2018, 06:07:49 AM
Sure a gasser will work for some of you. Personally I went from a gasser to a diesel and would never go back if doing much towing at all. The diesel is just way more relaxing to drive, and when I'm driving, going on vacation etc. I go so I can relax as much as possible.
Post by: jackelope on April 17, 2018, 09:00:12 AM
Just some thoughts on the gas vs. diesel debate. I'm sure a gasser would pull a trailer ok . May even stop it ok. But to me part of the advantage of a diesel is the weight of the tow vehicle. According to a quick search the heaviest Ford F150 is listed at 4950 lbs. My 06 Chevy with the Duramax is 7500 lbs. I like that extra weight because it doesn't get pushed around as much as a lighter vehicle. I think this is especially noticeable on longer trailers. Tow the same weight with both properly set up over a variety of roads and terrain and I will take the heavier rig every time. People talk about braking. With my Duramax on some pretty steep downhill grades the engine and transmission hold me back where I would have to be riding the brakes in a gasser. Ive been on some pretty steep grades where I didn't have to touch the brakes. Especially if I used the manual shift option. Another big one for me is that a gasser will be working really hard on hard pulls. Personally when the gassers I towed with were running at high RPM it just wasn't relaxing to me. Just seemed to always have me on edge. I like it when I'm pulling hard and only running about 1800 rpm. Just less stressful.
Sure a gasser will work for some of you. Personally I went from a gasser to a diesel and would never go back if doing much towing at all. The diesel is just way more relaxing to drive, and when I'm driving, going on vacation etc. I go so I can relax as much as possible.
The OP was talking about deciding between a super duty with a diesel or a super duty with a big gas engine. It was probably me who got the thread sidetracked into an F150 debate, but that was only because the big trucks cost more and it didn't sound to me like a guy who may tow a few times a year needed a super duty and could save himself some $$$ on the purchase price and maintenance and fuel costs.
Post by: HntnFsh on April 17, 2018, 01:06:03 PM
Post by: fish vacuum on April 18, 2018, 05:35:28 PM
Most people overestimate their vehicle needs. There are people who need diesels and trucks beyond a half ton. And there are people who own 2500/3500's that could be replaced by a minivan.
Post by: rtspring on April 18, 2018, 06:09:09 PM
Post by: J.Brower on April 19, 2018, 09:40:12 AM
I wouldn't trade my diesel for any gas motor. But thats me. Its simple some people need them and some people don't. With the price of trucks these days they all suck!!!
I had that same train of thought, until I finally gave up my 99 Ram for a 15' ecoboost f150. :chuckle: Still more than happy with it and don't regret it one bit, other than having payments, that part DOES suck. :bash:
Post by: Alchase on April 19, 2018, 11:26:44 AM
I’m curious what kind of mileage you get when you go back up the hill to your house.
Here you go..
Unless the last 50 miles your drove were down hill with a tail wind, the 23 MPG average is 7 MPG better than my 3.7 Dakota :yike:
Lets not even mention doing that with double the HP, bigger bed, and more payload, I would just get seriously depressed :ACRY:
Post by: dontgetcrabs on April 19, 2018, 05:03:31 PM
I wouldn't trade my diesel for any gas motor. But thats me. Its simple some people need them and some people don't. With the price of trucks these days they all suck!!!
Glad you moved on from that super charged toy truck you bragged about. :tup:
Post by: Miles on April 19, 2018, 05:20:55 PM
I’m curious what kind of mileage you get when you go back up the hill to your house.
Here you go..
Unless the last 50 miles your drove were down hill with a tail wind, the 23 MPG average is 7 MPG better than my 3.7 Dakota :yike:
Lets not even mention doing that with double the HP, bigger bed, and more payload, I would just get seriously depressed :ACRY:
I commute from the Springs to Denver. It’s not downhill both ways... I posted mpgs for both legs of the trip. With that type of hwy fuel mileage it’s hard for me to understand the appeal of the “smaller” trucks. But I also tow a 41’ fifth wheel pretty regularly, so that plays a part in my thought process.
Post by: bigmacc on April 19, 2018, 07:07:37 PM
I wouldn't trade my diesel for any gas motor. But thats me. Its simple some people need them and some people don't. With the price of trucks these days they all suck!!!
I had that same train of thought, until I finally gave up my 99 Ram for a 15' ecoboost f150. :chuckle: Still more than happy with it and don't regret it one bit, other than having payments, that part DOES suck. :bash:
Same here, diesels all in the family for years and years, Fords and dodge, I too picked up a 2015 ecoboost in 15, love it!
Post by: kckrawler on April 19, 2018, 07:47:47 PM
I’m curious what kind of mileage you get when you go back up the hill to your house.
Here you go..
Unless the last 50 miles your drove were down hill with a tail wind, the 23 MPG average is 7 MPG better than my 3.7 Dakota :yike:
Lets not even mention doing that with double the HP, bigger bed, and more payload, I would just get seriously depressed :ACRY:
I commute from the Springs to Denver. It’s not downhill both ways... I posted mpgs for both legs of the trip. With that type of hwy fuel mileage it’s hard for me to understand the appeal of the “smaller” trucks. But I also tow a 41’ fifth wheel pretty regularly, so that plays a part in my thought process.
Stock or modified?
Post by: Alchase on April 23, 2018, 10:16:52 AM
I’m curious what kind of mileage you get when you go back up the hill to your house.
Here you go..
Unless the last 50 miles your drove were down hill with a tail wind, the 23 MPG average is 7 MPG better than my 3.7 Dakota :yike:
Lets not even mention doing that with double the HP, bigger bed, and more payload, I would just get seriously depressed :ACRY:
I commute from the Springs to Denver. It’s not downhill both ways... I posted mpgs for both legs of the trip. With that type of hwy fuel mileage it’s hard for me to understand the appeal of the “smaller” trucks. But I also tow a 41’ fifth wheel pretty regularly, so that plays a part in my thought process.
Believe me the appeal of small trucks, turns into a myth once you have one, LOL.
Especially with numbers like that