Post by: nutntoit on June 24, 2018, 06:32:22 PM
Post by: 87Ford on June 24, 2018, 06:33:58 PM
Post by: Man Tracker on June 24, 2018, 08:29:09 PM
Post by: jrebel on June 24, 2018, 08:36:54 PM
You should have one of each. :tup:
Post by: Bob33 on June 24, 2018, 08:47:34 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 24, 2018, 09:03:22 PM
Post by: metlhead on June 24, 2018, 09:37:23 PM
Post by: nutntoit on June 24, 2018, 09:40:11 PM
Post by: Bob33 on June 24, 2018, 09:45:33 PM
Post by: T-Bone on June 25, 2018, 07:42:02 AM
To be honest, I start the pheasant season with a 28 Ga. and then move up to the 20 Ga. or my favorite, the 16 Ga. I do hunt late in the season with an extremely light Ithaca Model 280 SXS or Ithaca Model 37 pump both in 12 Ga. Even then 1 1/8 oz. of lead or bismuth #5 shot seems plenty. I'll save the 1 1/4 oz. lead #5 or #4 shot load for those windy, spooky bird days or the (ugh) group, gang pheasant drive...Grew up in Iowa...Been there/done that...Never again.
Post by: tlbradford on June 25, 2018, 08:03:12 AM
Post by: birddogdad on June 25, 2018, 09:17:01 AM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 25, 2018, 09:33:23 AM
Post by: AWS on June 25, 2018, 09:37:21 AM
Post by: nwwanderer on June 25, 2018, 06:16:41 PM
Post by: jackson7 on June 25, 2018, 07:02:38 PM
Post by: Smokeploe on June 26, 2018, 06:30:55 AM
If you feel comfortable using the 12 great, if you like the feel of the 20 that is great!
When I use to duck hunt in the Sacramento valley decades ago I used a 20 ga pump and reloaded my own shells and I got just as many ducks and geese as my hunting partner back then. I shot the same flocks he did with his 12 ga, most of my loads were either 1 or 1 1/8 oz loads in the 20. Yes I had a 12 ga, it was just to heavy so I used the 20
Smokeploe
Post by: Henrydog on June 26, 2018, 08:05:57 AM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on June 26, 2018, 08:09:00 AM
The difference between 7/8oz to 1 1/4 is negligible with the amount of shot depending on size. 2 things matter with shotgun, if it shoots where you are looking (ie fits) and the load patterns well. That said I would not shoot a goose with a 410. But a pheasant with a 20ga you are confident with will be just as dead as the one you hammer with a 10ga
We hunted geese quite effectively as kids with .410s. It really does come down to placement.
Post by: CP on June 26, 2018, 09:11:33 AM
Post by: tlbradford on June 26, 2018, 09:53:00 AM
A 12g will do everything that a 20g will do, and more, and better. I see no reason to own anything but a 12g.
Then you haven't hiked chukar cliffs or waded through miles of muddy fields with a nice light 20 guage.
Post by: CP on June 26, 2018, 12:38:21 PM
A 12g will do everything that a 20g will do, and more, and better. I see no reason to own anything but a 12g.
Then you haven't hiked chukar cliffs or waded through miles of muddy fields with a nice light 20 guage.
I have a 5.9lb 12g. Most 20s weigh more than that, I'm sure there are a few that weigh a bit less but the difference is negligible.
Post by: tlbradford on June 26, 2018, 12:49:44 PM
A 12g will do everything that a 20g will do, and more, and better. I see no reason to own anything but a 12g.
Then you haven't hiked chukar cliffs or waded through miles of muddy fields with a nice light 20 guage.
I have a 5.9lb 12g. Most 20s weigh more than that, I'm sure there are a few that weigh a bit less but the difference is negligible.
In that case you are correct. I went from a couple of 12's that were between 6.5 and 7.6 lbs, to a little 20 gauge golden snipe that weighs what your 12 guage does. That pound made a lot of difference.
Post by: 2MANY on June 26, 2018, 01:10:05 PM
Post by: Stein on June 26, 2018, 05:18:20 PM
The other advantage is ammo availability, way more in stock and more choices for 12.
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Post by: mossy8352 on June 26, 2018, 05:55:02 PM
Post by: jetjockey on June 26, 2018, 08:12:11 PM
A 12g will do everything that a 20g will do, and more, and better. I see no reason to own anything but a 12g.
Then you haven't hiked chukar cliffs or waded through miles of muddy fields with a nice light 20 guage.
I have a 5.9lb 12g. Most 20s weigh more than that, I'm sure there are a few that weigh a bit less but the difference is negligible.
If your shooting a sub 6lb, 12, your most likely also shooting 20ga loads, and not American 12ga loads. The steel isn’t thick enough to proof high pressure American shells in 99% of all sub 6lb 12 gauges. So, let’s make sure we are talking apples to apples. I believe my Griffin and Howe 12 ga is proofed to 1200 or 1310 bar. It’s a 6lb 10oz 12 guage. I don’t shoot the ultra high velocity magnum loads in that even with the high proof.
My go to shotgun over the years has been a 1923 LC Smith 20 guage with 2 1/2” chambers. I shoot RST 7/8 is loads at 1125 FPS in the heart of pheasant country. I’ve hunted WA, SD, NE, KS, CO, and several other states for pheasants. There are no pheasants more wild than a late season January CO pheasant. It’s not about the guage, it’s about the gun and the shooter.
Post by: bobcat on June 26, 2018, 08:31:26 PM
Post by: jetjockey on June 26, 2018, 09:13:03 PM
http://www.shootingtimes.com/long-guns/longgun_reviews_st_headintheclouds_201002/
Post by: Special T on June 26, 2018, 10:01:39 PM
If you find something that works for you use it....
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Post by: nutntoit on June 26, 2018, 11:22:56 PM
What dog are you hunting behind? Pointers = 20 guage, flushers = 12 gauge. With my pointer I often find myself waiting for the bird to get a little more distance from me.I hunt over pointing dogs.
Post by: nutntoit on June 26, 2018, 11:34:38 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on June 27, 2018, 02:33:27 AM
Post by: CP on June 27, 2018, 06:32:38 AM
A 12g will do everything that a 20g will do, and more, and better. I see no reason to own anything but a 12g.
Then you haven't hiked chukar cliffs or waded through miles of muddy fields with a nice light 20 guage.
I have a 5.9lb 12g. Most 20s weigh more than that, I'm sure there are a few that weigh a bit less but the difference is negligible.
If your shooting a sub 6lb, 12, your most likely also shooting 20ga loads, and not American 12ga loads. The steel isn’t thick enough to proof high pressure American shells in 99% of all sub 6lb 12 gauges. So, let’s make sure we are talking apples to apples. I believe my Griffin and Howe 12 ga is proofed to 1200 or 1310 bar. It’s a 6lb 10oz 12 guage. I don’t shoot the ultra high velocity magnum loads in that even with the high proof.
My go to shotgun over the years has been a 1923 LC Smith 20 guage with 2 1/2” chambers. I shoot RST 7/8 is loads at 1125 FPS in the heart of pheasant country. I’ve hunted WA, SD, NE, KS, CO, and several other states for pheasants. There are no pheasants more wild than a late season January CO pheasant. It’s not about the guage, it’s about the gun and the shooter.
It will shoot any 12g shell from the little mini shells up to 3" 2oz turkey loads :yike:
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-upland-ultralight-12-26-alloy-receiver-5-choke-tubes/
But I mostly shoot 7/8oz hand loads in it because light shotguns (regardless of gauge) kick like a mule and heavy loads are just not much fun.
Post by: jetjockey on June 27, 2018, 07:28:55 AM
Post by: ribka on June 27, 2018, 07:56:44 AM
I still prefer to use a 12 on heavily pressured birds on public land and late season prefer a semi auto
I hate missing shots on birds hunting with my dog after all of her hard work finding them
A 12g will do everything that a 20g will do, and more, and better. I see no reason to own anything but a 12g.
Then you haven't hiked chukar cliffs or waded through miles of muddy fields with a nice light 20 guage.
I have a 5.9lb 12g. Most 20s weigh more than that, I'm sure there are a few that weigh a bit less but the difference is negligible.
If your shooting a sub 6lb, 12, your most likely also shooting 20ga loads, and not American 12ga loads. The steel isn’t thick enough to proof high pressure American shells in 99% of all sub 6lb 12 gauges. So, let’s make sure we are talking apples to apples. I believe my Griffin and Howe 12 ga is proofed to 1200 or 1310 bar. It’s a 6lb 10oz 12 guage. I don’t shoot the ultra high velocity magnum loads in that even with the high proof.
My go to shotgun over the years has been a 1923 LC Smith 20 guage with 2 1/2” chambers. I shoot RST 7/8 is loads at 1125 FPS in the heart of pheasant country. I’ve hunted WA, SD, NE, KS, CO, and several other states for pheasants. There are no pheasants more wild than a late season January CO pheasant. It’s not about the guage, it’s about the gun and the shooter.
It will shoot any 12g shell from the little mini shells up to 3" 2oz turkey loads :yike:
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-upland-ultralight-12-26-alloy-receiver-5-choke-tubes/
But I mostly shoot 7/8oz hand loads in it because light shotguns (regardless of gauge) kick like a mule and heavy loads are just not much fun.
Post by: Special T on June 27, 2018, 08:16:24 AM
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: Wacenturion on July 01, 2018, 07:38:28 AM
I'm a huge fan of the 20ga and the 28ga. I like a lighter, smaller, faster, shotgun over the big bulky 12's. I am very confident with both of them out to 40 yards. I killed a couple of turkey's this year at 38 and 43 yards with my ruger o/u 20ga. And when I pulled the trigger it looked like they got hit over the head with a sludge hammer and didn't move. Next year I will only take my ruger o/u 28ga when I go turkey hunting.
Completely agree. Personally 28 gauges for me except for turkeys which I used a 22' extended choke 12 gauge that is an old friend and killed lot of birds. As far as weight, one needs to factor in shells as well. A box of 28 gauge shells are hardly noticeable say chasing chukars vs. a box of 12 gauge shells. That does make a difference. JMO
Post by: Parkern on July 02, 2018, 08:54:35 PM
Post by: Alpine Mojo on July 04, 2018, 05:47:21 PM
A 12g will do everything that a 20g will do, and more, and better. I see no reason to own anything but a 12g.
I've been pounding grouse for years with an old school SxS 20 gauge. I guess I've been doing it wrong all this time.
Post by: follow maggie on July 05, 2018, 06:41:46 PM
Post by: joe_dumy on July 23, 2018, 01:38:00 PM
Post by: 2MANY on July 23, 2018, 01:55:51 PM
You might as well consider a 16 or 28ga. I think both of them are superior to the 20 and 12. You also get a nice hobby reloading with the 16 and 28 ga. So something to do when you cant hunt.
True.
410 rocks as well if hunting over a pointing dog.
Post by: Fishnfowler on July 23, 2018, 05:48:35 PM
Post by: 10mmg on July 29, 2018, 04:14:08 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 06, 2018, 05:38:15 AM
A 20 can be lighter but a 12 has more shot capacity and is more versatile. Both will kill birds within their limitations which means shorter range with a 20.
:yeah: good explanation and exactly why I pack a 12 for most bird hunting
Post by: AspenBud on August 07, 2018, 10:57:35 PM
Tristan sells a cheap 16 gauge O/U, Franchise sells one that is a level up from that, and then there is Browning’s sweet 16 A5.
Post by: T-Bone on August 13, 2018, 11:40:35 AM
Buy a 16 gauge. Carries like a 20, hits like a 12.
Tristan sells a cheap 16 gauge O/U, Franchise sells one that is a level up from that, and then there is Browning’s sweet 16 A5.
X2...Also, the 16 Ga.Browning BPS Hunter model on a 20 Ga. receiver. Unfortunately the BPS Upland Special model in all gauges is now discontinued (per Browning's website).
Post by: nutntoit on August 16, 2018, 09:06:30 AM
If I ever find one of those with the English stock in 16ga I am definitely going to buy it. Those are nice little guns.Buy a 16 gauge. Carries like a 20, hits like a 12.
Tristan sells a cheap 16 gauge O/U, Franchise sells one that is a level up from that, and then there is Browning’s sweet 16 A5.
X2...Also, the 16 Ga.Browning BPS Hunter model on a 20 Ga. receiver. Unfortunately the BPS Upland Special model in all gauges is now discontinued (per Browning's website).
Post by: Cab on August 20, 2018, 11:41:37 AM
Post by: johnsc6 on August 22, 2018, 08:24:56 AM
Such a fallacy... there is no increased "range" with a 12 guage. The ONLY difference is amount of shot. Same size pellet flying the same speed equals same energy. I duck hunt with a 20 guage frequenlty and find it funny that folk think they need a 3.5" 12 gauge to kill a bird. Find a gun that fits and shoot it well.A 20 can be lighter but a 12 has more shot capacity and is more versatile. Both will kill birds within their limitations which means shorter range with a 20.
:yeah: good explanation and exactly why I pack a 12 for most bird hunting
Post by: bobcat on August 22, 2018, 08:32:12 AM
Such a fallacy... there is no increased "range" with a 12 guage. The ONLY difference is amount of shot. Same size pellet flying the same speed equals same energy. I duck hunt with a 20 guage frequenlty and find it funny that folk think they need a 3.5" 12 gauge to kill a bird. Find a gun that fits and shoot it well.A 20 can be lighter but a 12 has more shot capacity and is more versatile. Both will kill birds within their limitations which means shorter range with a 20.
:yeah: good explanation and exactly why I pack a 12 for most bird hunting
There sure is an advantage at longer distances with a 12 gauge. More shot means a denser pattern, which obviously will be more effective further out. If there was no advantage to more shot capacity, then everyone would be using 410 shotguns for goose hunting, and turkey hunting.
Post by: T-Bone on August 22, 2018, 02:47:14 PM
I've used both but found that I was hunting thick woods so I often had shots that were close or the bird was still on the ground. 20ga seem to keep them intake better. If i'm in open country 12ga, thick woods 20ga.
Choke has a great deal to do with it; even more than gauge. For grouse in the woods, improved cylinder or even skeet would be my choice. It is also a good choice for valley quail. For pheasants and Huns, modified is my go-to choke.
The oz. of shot in the shell has a lot to do with it, too; regardless of gauge. In the uplands, more is not necessarily better.
Post by: jackson7 on August 22, 2018, 02:59:53 PM
Post by: floatinghat on August 23, 2018, 01:28:56 PM
I shoot a 12, I can shoot light and more square loads when desired or heavier loads later in the season. My go to is a 2 1/2" 11/8 oz, #6 shot or the same in a 2 3/4" shell.
Post by: nutntoit on August 27, 2018, 10:11:36 AM
That has been my philosophy so far as well. I like the versatility of the 12ga
I shoot a 12, I can shoot light and more square loads when desired or heavier loads later in the season. My go to is a 2 1/2" 11/8 oz, #6 shot or the same in a 2 3/4" shell.
Post by: thinkingman on August 30, 2018, 01:36:16 PM
When you're hunting wild pheasants, especially after opening weekend, you really need a 12 gauge with at least 1-1/4 ounces of shot. Often the closest shots you get will be roosters jumping up at 40 yards. By the time you shoot they're at least 50. Not a shot you really want to try with a 20 gauge.20ga 3" pheasant loads are 1 1/4oz of 5s.
Thats what I shoot after the opener.
Same velocity as 12ga, slight different pattern.
Post by: JLS on August 30, 2018, 02:00:08 PM
When you're hunting wild pheasants, especially after opening weekend, you really need a 12 gauge with at least 1-1/4 ounces of shot. Often the closest shots you get will be roosters jumping up at 40 yards. By the time you shoot they're at least 50. Not a shot you really want to try with a 20 gauge.
In my experience, this is not the case at all.
I think it is much more a mind set issue than reality. I used to shoot 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 ounce loads from a 12 gauge all the time, thinking that was what I "needed". Since then, I found as shotgun that truly fits me, and I've since killed a pile of birds with a measly ounce of # 6s. This is from an improved cylinder bore no less.
Just like with rifles, bigger guns don't make up for poor shooting.
Post by: bobcat on August 30, 2018, 02:32:54 PM
Post by: tlbradford on August 30, 2018, 04:59:58 PM
When you're hunting wild pheasants, especially after opening weekend, you really need a 12 gauge with at least 1-1/4 ounces of shot. Often the closest shots you get will be roosters jumping up at 40 yards. By the time you shoot they're at least 50. Not a shot you really want to try with a 20 gauge.
In my experience, this is not the case at all.
I think it is much more a mind set issue than reality. I used to shoot 1 1/4 to 1 3/8 ounce loads from a 12 gauge all the time, thinking that was what I "needed". Since then, I found as shotgun that truly fits me, and I've since killed a pile of birds with a measly ounce of # 6s. This is from an improved cylinder bore no less.
Just like with rifles, bigger guns don't make up for poor shooting.
Distance is a matter of cover hunted and the quality of the dog and hunter, especially in Washington. That whole distance thing is more typical of the heavily corn fields of midwest. I am kicking up late season wild birds on public land because I hunt heavy cover, approach quietly, and have a dog that scent points and holds without creeping. However, all things being equal, more shot in the air, with a great pattern increases your chances of killing, especially at longer distances.
Post by: jetjockey on September 01, 2018, 07:14:05 AM
Sure, a one ounce load of 6's will do a great job of killing pheasants, but not at 50 to 60 yards.
Shhhh. Don’t tell this rooster. He was smoked at about 50 yards with 7/8oz of #5’s at only 1125fps. The only reason i don’t shoot that load all the time is because it’s a 100 year old gun that only comes out on occasion.
Btw. I shot a new 12 bore last year that I got from a good friend after he passed away. I lost more birds in one day last year with that 12 than I have the last two years combined.
Post by: merkelman on September 12, 2018, 05:33:30 PM
Post by: nutntoit on September 14, 2018, 01:40:02 PM
28 if you have good dog. All these were with a 28ga and all wild birds....That is exactly the look I get from my dogs when I make them pose for a picture next to birds! Nice gun. I don't have any experience with a 28 but sub gauges intrigue me.
Post by: merkelman on September 19, 2018, 09:18:14 PM