Post by: 509 on June 25, 2018, 01:22:30 PM
I will go ahead and notify the Forest Service, but I would like to know if there are any Washington state laws regarding illegal posting of public lands and roads??
I fully intend to hike and walk my “public roads”. I suspect that the initial contact will be a call to a Deputy Sheriff so in addition to breaking of Federal law it would be nice to cite a state law to the Deputy.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Post by: Woodchuck on June 25, 2018, 01:28:26 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on June 25, 2018, 01:31:36 PM
I'd imagine that it is with Forest Service approval, and it is likely to prevent theft and vandalism and to minimize liability risks.
But I am talking about actual logging operations and equipment, not just surveying the grounds. It would be like driving or hiking into an actual construction site, something that you just wouldn't want to do, IMO.
:twocents:
Post by: Humptulips on June 25, 2018, 01:35:22 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 25, 2018, 01:41:47 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on June 25, 2018, 02:42:47 PM
Post by: idaho guy on June 25, 2018, 03:08:09 PM
Post by: 509 on June 25, 2018, 04:21:13 PM
I have the Forest Service side covered.
The company has posted a LOT of land so hoping to use this opportunity to get some public’s interested in the illegal posting of public land.
Post by: bigtex on June 25, 2018, 04:45:55 PM
What I really need is the Washington state WAC posting of public land illegally. I believe there is one since WDFW has had a couple of busts in the basin. Need to know if the WAC applies to Federal lands.It's no longer a crime but rather an infraction (similar to a a barbed hook ticket) but this applies to posting of signs preventing hunting/fishing without the landowners permission. RCW 77.15.160(6)(c)
I have the Forest Service side covered.
The company has posted a LOT of land so hoping to use this opportunity to get some public’s interested in the illegal posting of public land.
The best contact will be the USFS, they will sort it out with the timber company.
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Post by: pianoman9701 on June 26, 2018, 06:16:32 AM
Post by: grundy53 on June 26, 2018, 09:09:07 AM
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: 509 on July 03, 2018, 07:58:16 PM
Here is how to check on illegal posting of Forest Service managed public land by Mr. Weyerhauser or others.
Every Forest Supervisors office has a map atlas called the "ROAD ATLAS". It is usually kept by the Engineering section or Lands staff. A lot of people at the front desk have NO CLUE that it even exists, but everybody in Engineering or Lands knows about it.
Get a lat/long or mark the illegal posting on a Forest Service map. The best maps for this purpose are what the Forest Service calls the Fire Maps or District Maps. They show EVERY road, plus nifty items like helispots and water holes for fire engines.
You can then compare your map to the "ROAD ATLAS" which shows road status and who owns it and easements.
The Forest Service PURCHASED these easements in almost all cases for timber sale access, HOWEVER, it is Forest Service policy that when they buy a easement it includes PUBLIC ACCESS. Does not have to be vehicle access, but it is ALWAYS that the public has the right to use the road to access public lands. It does NOT provide access to private lands along the road.
The BLM is slightly different in that BLM does get easements that are for GOVERNMENT PURPOSES ONLY. Those easements do not give the public the right of access. However, BLM has been shifting over the years to public easements when possible.
I do not know about the DNR easement policy.
For EVERY road there is a easement document prepared that shows the price the taxpayers paid for the easement, plus a bunch of legal stuff. But the key words in the document are always....."and to other users including members of the public......
You should get a copy of the easement to carry with you in case somebody doesn't understand your rights as a "member of the public" not to mention a taxpayer that paid for the road access.
In Mr. Weyerhauser's illegal posting I found one road that was OWNED by DNR and on top of it has a Forest Service easement. The land owned by Mr. Weyerhauser was FIVE miles down the road. The first five miles were all public land on the sides. However, he posted it right at the county road!!
As outdoors folks I really think we need legislation to make this illegal and include a fine. Really Mr. Weyerhauser knows better.....he is just trying to steal from the public.
Post by: wolfbait on July 04, 2018, 12:41:21 PM
One of them owns land on one side connected to USFS, he actually keeps a pretty good eye on his "private USFS" land, he has run off quite a few people with his arrogant attitude. I was falling some hazard trees for his neighbor one time, he come running up, and started in on me, I told him I would call the sheriff and let them straighten his problem out, shut him right up.
Post by: optic2 on July 04, 2018, 02:12:41 PM
I know of at least three different families that moved to the Methow from the west side in the last 30 years and posted USFS land as private property-No Trespassing, has kept some of the people out during hunting season.
One of them owns land on one side connected to USFS, he actually keeps a pretty good eye on his "private USFS" land, he has run off quite a few people with his arrogant attitude. I was falling some hazard trees for his neighbor one time, he come running up, and started in on me, I told him I would call the sheriff and let them straighten his problem out, shut him right up.
Let them know I know where I'm at from using to OnX maps and they can shove it.
Post by: Dan-o on July 04, 2018, 03:33:12 PM
I know of at least three different families that moved to the Methow from the west side in the last 30 years and posted USFS land as private property-No Trespassing, has kept some of the people out during hunting season.
One of them owns land on one side connected to USFS, he actually keeps a pretty good eye on his "private USFS" land, he has run off quite a few people with his arrogant attitude. I was falling some hazard trees for his neighbor one time, he come running up, and started in on me, I told him I would call the sheriff and let them straighten his problem out, shut him right up.
Let them know I know where I'm at from using to OnX maps and they can shove it.
GPS is the best invention ever.
Where I hunt there are a couple farmers who like to keep people off public property.
I've had some great discussions with them when they try to stop me.
I offer to call the Sheriff or the BLM regional manager (who's name I have in my phone) and suddenly they think it's OK for me to be on public land.
I try not to be a jerk, but this does get to me.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on July 05, 2018, 08:36:38 AM
I know of at least three different families that moved to the Methow from the west side in the last 30 years and posted USFS land as private property-No Trespassing, has kept some of the people out during hunting season.Gebbers are closing lots of roads in the Chiliwist and lower valley through the County Commissioners. They have figured out a way to get the county to abandon roads and they gate them.
One of them owns land on one side connected to USFS, he actually keeps a pretty good eye on his "private USFS" land, he has run off quite a few people with his arrogant attitude. I was falling some hazard trees for his neighbor one time, he come running up, and started in on me, I told him I would call the sheriff and let them straighten his problem out, shut him right up.
Post by: baldopepper on July 05, 2018, 09:13:10 AM
Post by: cbond3318 on July 05, 2018, 09:26:45 AM
Someday I hope.
Post by: KB88 on July 05, 2018, 09:44:13 AM
Post by: skeeter 20i on July 05, 2018, 10:13:52 AM
Ive never been fortunate enough to have some d bag come and try to run me off public land. Some guys have all the luck. :(
Someday I hope.
What part of Idaho are you in? If you're in the panhandle I can take you to one this weekend for sure. He comes out to "greet" me every time I park the truck and start walking in, we usually exchange well wishes as I move on thru.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 05, 2018, 10:25:15 AM
Post by: wolfbait on July 05, 2018, 12:23:28 PM
I know of at least three different families that moved to the Methow from the west side in the last 30 years and posted USFS land as private property-No Trespassing, has kept some of the people out during hunting season.Gebbers are closing lots of roads in the Chiliwist and lower valley through the County Commissioners. They have figured out a way to get the county to abandon roads and they gate them.
One of them owns land on one side connected to USFS, he actually keeps a pretty good eye on his "private USFS" land, he has run off quite a few people with his arrogant attitude. I was falling some hazard trees for his neighbor one time, he come running up, and started in on me, I told him I would call the sheriff and let them straighten his problem out, shut him right up.
That's kind of a different deal, Gebber's own bother sides of the road, and I believe they do the maintenance on some of those roads. Would be different if that was the only road going through, but it's not the case.
Don't know if this happens much in other areas, but the last forty years in the Methow, seems the first thing people do when they buy a chunk of land is throw up the No Trespassing signs and there are several that post land they don't own, including sections of the river. Funny thing, they don't mind hunting on land that they don't own and is posted, hell they will even fix the fences so their critters can run on private range, gutsy people.
Post by: fireweed on July 16, 2018, 10:12:25 AM
NEVER EVER trust what you are told.
I went and actually looked up some of these easements. They are everywhere and the ones written before about 1980 have a standard language that says "This easement is conveyed for the purposes of construction, reconstruction, use and maintenance of a road or roads for the purpose of providing access to and from lands now owned or hereafter acquired by the State."
I can't imagine how a member of the public walking that road with that easement on their way to state land could possibly be considered a trespasser.
These older documents do not specify that these easements are for forestry or administrative use only in any way. If you find a parcel of DNR mixed in with Weyco or other permit for entry timber land, first, check the gate and see if it has a DNR lock, next visit the county auditor or DNR office and do some digging (counties are even putting these online and searchable) then read the actual text of the easement. Roads with easements change a lot, but often refer to the "original language of the easement" when they change, even today.
I haven't asked the DNR what they think about hiking to these parcels with "access to state land" easements, and they may side with Weyco but the language of the easement is on the side of access.
Post by: 509 on July 16, 2018, 01:23:19 PM
Post by: Alpine Mojo on July 18, 2018, 07:28:42 PM
The best contact will be the USFS, they will sort it out with the timber company.
Yeah, I'm sure they will get right on it...
Post by: fireweed on July 20, 2018, 09:20:43 AM
But now with a wholesale closure of all land owned by these companies (in some cases HALF the land in a county!), there now is proof of hostility with a crossing, and no longer any neighborly accommodation by these large companies. After so many years of your driveway (for example) being in a company's permit-required area, an easement seeker has a better claim since there is proof of hostility and adverse use between the parties (vs. neighborly accommodation).
Same thing probably holds for a logging road.