Post by: Special T on August 14, 2018, 05:17:18 PM
What specific, tangible changes would you encourage the New Director to make or pursue that could convince you to sign off a price hike? Perhaps it can Happen in Short order perhaps not. Extra style points awarded for easily executed changes that should have already been done for the list of reasons you provide.
Now before you guys start spewing stuff like start issuing wolf tags, which we would all love but aint going to happen, i will give one ive been yammering on. Change the Waterfowl bag limit on Mergansers to a separate limit. 2, 4,6 dont matter to me... the down side is this is likely a longer term project as it requires a bunch of states to agree and involves the feds.
Brain Storm away!
Post by: idahohuntr on August 14, 2018, 05:50:39 PM
Some specifics:
1. Get rid of the hunt by permission scam...and any loopholes that allow people to enroll in programs that don't actually give average sportsmen much benefit.
2. Substantially increase funding to pay for access agreements. Prioritize long term agreements to large land tracts.
3. Incentivize landowners to provide access...tax breaks, habitat work, patrols, maybe even limited numbers of tags.
4. Setup a committee of sportsmen to prioritize how access funding is spent.
Frankly, if wdfw said they needed 30 million to open up all the private western wa timberlands and a bunch of other areas in this state, I'd drive to Olympia to advocate on their behalf. 30 million to pay a bunch of wolf facilitators, management positions etc...they can pound sand.
Post by: Alan K on August 14, 2018, 05:51:57 PM
Year around cougar seasons.
April 1 - November 30th general bear season (west side anyway, don't know that it'd work on the east side).
I don't want to see increased opportunity in the form of longer seasons etc. I want to see it in the form or predator reduction which will in turn boost game populations and increase success rate. Additional success on top of continually declining populations doesn't help anything.
Post by: HntnFsh on August 14, 2018, 07:37:20 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 14, 2018, 07:57:04 PM
Post by: GBoyd on August 14, 2018, 08:03:00 PM
We can hunt them year round in Oregon and it's not like they all get shot out. Hunting is best in June when all the really stupid ones are hopping around and are the perfect age for eating. They're good introductory game and perfect for kids, but I'm definitely not going out for them during Washington's season because there's too many other things to hunt at that time of year.
Post by: Special T on August 14, 2018, 08:11:25 PM
Here's an easy one: year round rabbits.
We can hunt them year round in Oregon and it's not like they all get shot out. Hunting is best in June when all the really stupid ones are hopping around and are the perfect age for eating. They're good introductory game and perfect for kids, but I'm definitely not going out for them during Washington's season because there's too many other things to hunt at that time of year.
Please expand on your experience in Oregon... We dont have the jackrabbits like Easter Oregon has... Certainly not in any numbers that ive heard of...
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 14, 2018, 08:14:31 PM
Post by: Dhoey07 on August 14, 2018, 09:06:30 PM
Remove cougar quotas
Restrict second deer/elk tags to private lands only.
Ban gill netting for everyone
Stop rotetone-ing lakes
Make commercial pay for their enforcement
Post by: GBoyd on August 14, 2018, 09:19:05 PM
Here's an easy one: year round rabbits.
We can hunt them year round in Oregon and it's not like they all get shot out. Hunting is best in June when all the really stupid ones are hopping around and are the perfect age for eating. They're good introductory game and perfect for kids, but I'm definitely not going out for them during Washington's season because there's too many other things to hunt at that time of year.
Please expand on your experience in Oregon... We dont have the jackrabbits like Easter Oregon has... Certainly not in any numbers that ive heard of...
I don't do the jackrabbit shoots, but we have a good and stable population of cottontails over the whole state. I can't think of any reason that Washington would need a closed season. I believe that rabbits are able to withstand enormous amounts of pressure without problems. Anyone that has tried to clear a farm of them can attest to that.
Basically, there's no biological reason that it closes in Washington, just tradition and not enough rabbit hunters out there anymore to bring it up at the meetings.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on August 14, 2018, 09:19:16 PM
Stop rotetone-ing lakes
Make commercial pay for their enforcement
Interesting thought
Post by: j_h_nimrod on August 14, 2018, 09:50:54 PM
Here's an easy one: year round rabbits.
We can hunt them year round in Oregon and it's not like they all get shot out. Hunting is best in June when all the really stupid ones are hopping around and are the perfect age for eating. They're good introductory game and perfect for kids, but I'm definitely not going out for them during Washington's season because there's too many other things to hunt at that time of year.
Please expand on your experience in Oregon... We dont have the jackrabbits like Easter Oregon has... Certainly not in any numbers that ive heard of...
I don't do the jackrabbit shoots, but we have a good and stable population of cottontails over the whole state. I can't think of any reason that Washington would need a closed season. I believe that rabbits are able to withstand enormous amounts of pressure without problems. Anyone that has tried to clear a farm of them can attest to that.
Basically, there's no biological reason that it closes in Washington, just tradition and not enough rabbit hunters out there anymore to bring it up at the meetings.
:yeah: rabbits are a tough game to hunt and are excellent for kids. I loved hunting them and had some great experiences while “rabbit hunting”. Got us out and paying attention to our surroundings n nature. Had a good lesson in shooting as well.
Stop rotetone-ing lakes. there are sound biological reasons for this in many circumstances, but agree it is abused by “purist” WDFW bios to return a minimally viable native species to a great mixed “non-native” fishing area
Make commercial pay for their enforcement “IIRC states are only minimally responsible for commercial enforcement and reimbursed through taxes already assessed.
Interesting thought
Post by: bigtex on August 14, 2018, 09:55:33 PM
Make commercial pay for their enforcementThey do
Post by: bigtex on August 14, 2018, 10:01:28 PM
Stand up to the tribes. Skoks come to mind. WDFW has a hatchery that feeds the Skok river but the Skoks lay claim to the river and I see them run nets all the way across it within 100 yards of the hatchery. And I don't even fish it!It's not just the Skokomish Tribe in this case it's the federal government. In 2016 the Department of Interior Solicitor's Office (legal counsel) issued an opinion that the actual river/riverbed of the Skokomish River itself is part of the reservation. This was not a new ruling but rather one that was affirming a decision made in the 1970s and essentially ignored by WA.
When Trump took office the new DOI Solicitor revoked some of the latter opinions issued under the Obama Admin but they did not revoke this ruling. Quite honestly with Ryan Zinke (who loves tribes) as the Secretary of Interior I don't think we will see any movement on that Obama era ruling.
Post by: lokidog on August 14, 2018, 10:05:10 PM
Remove cougar quotas.
Offer third deer doe tags in the San Juans.
Post by: Dhoey07 on August 14, 2018, 10:08:13 PM
Make commercial pay for their enforcementThey do
Great, I can check that one off the list.
Post by: Elkcollector82 on August 15, 2018, 01:44:19 AM
Make buck deer a 2pt minimum westside and 3pt for eastside
Make more eastside gmu draw only units for early deer season
Make coastal gmu and all cascade mountain range gmu general spring bear units, then all Other regions make more available draw spring bear tags.
Let us least use bait for spring bear.
Make general bear season start August 1st through November 31 for all gmu
Post by: HntnFsh on August 15, 2018, 05:47:48 AM
Stand up to the tribes. Skoks come to mind. WDFW has a hatchery that feeds the Skok river but the Skoks lay claim to the river and I see them run nets all the way across it within 100 yards of the hatchery. And I don't even fish it!It's not just the Skokomish Tribe in this case it's the federal government. In 2016 the Department of Interior Solicitor's Office (legal counsel) issued an opinion that the actual river/riverbed of the Skokomish River itself is part of the reservation. This was not a new ruling but rather one that was affirming a decision made in the 1970s and essentially ignored by WA.
When Trump took office the new DOI Solicitor revoked some of the latter opinions issued under the Obama Admin but they did not revoke this ruling. Quite honestly with Ryan Zinke (who loves tribes) as the Secretary of Interior I don't think we will see any movement on that Obama era ruling.
Thank you for the enlightenment Bigtex. That's interesting info. I realize that a few of those fish are caught by sports fishers before they reach the river. But it frustrates me to see a WDFW hatchery raising these fish at sportsmen and tax payer expense seemingly, now for the tribes to use as financial gain. A couple weeks ago there were a few tribal member trucks and I think I remember seeing a fish buyer truck parked at the Purdy cutoff rd. And nets stretched all the way across the river starting at the hiway bridge.
I wonder if there has been any progress in talks to opening the river back up to fishing for the general public. If that's not going to happen maybe WDFW should just shut that hatchery down. I know it wont happen. Theres more to it than that. But just a thought.
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 15, 2018, 06:02:40 AM
Post by: KFhunter on August 15, 2018, 11:13:47 AM
https://www.kxly.com/news/wolf-pack-kills-a-cow-in-eastern-wa/781416438
Quote
SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) - Members of the Togo wolf pack in the Colville National Forest of eastern Washington state killed one cow and injured another last week.
The state Department of Fish and Wildlife says the Togo pack is responsible for five depredations in the past 10 months, including two last November and one in May.
The agency said Monday that it was alerted last week about a potential wolf depredation near Danville, Washington. Staff have confirmed the cow was killed by a wolf or wolves.
The agency's policy allows the killing of wolves that prey on livestock three times in a 30-day period or four times in a 10-month period.
The agency says it will continue to monitor the Togo pack as it considers its next steps.
http://www.capitalpress.com/Washington/20180813/togo-wolfpack-attacks-livestock-again-in-ne-washington
Quote
A wolfpack in northeast Washington has reached the threshold for Fish and Wildlife to consider lethal removal
Fish and Wildlife director Kelly Susewind, less than a month on the job, told wildlife managers to work over the weekend to confirm the number of adults in the pack and learn as much as possible about the pack’s activities before he considers further action, according to a department statement Saturday.
Remember the first calf "didn't count" because the rancher wasn't using range riders, fladdery or these stupid fox lights (all a joke) but what the article doesn't mention is this rancher has a ton of family, he's literally related to half the county :chuckle: and they're up there all the time with ATV's and such.
And we're talking about confirmed kills, there's a lot more unconfirmed and missing cattle.
My suggestion to the new director is he take immediate and decisive action on the wolves.
Historically WDFW has done everything they could to turn an easily documented wolf depredation into anything but a wolf kill/attack. I would suggest they back on on that notion and actually do their best to determine cause of death/attack on livestock free from bias.
Post by: Stein on August 15, 2018, 11:17:51 AM
Post by: WSU on August 15, 2018, 11:23:22 AM
It begs the question: why are we OK harvesting some animals to the brink of what's biologically sustainable and not OK doing the same with others?
Post by: idahohuntr on August 15, 2018, 11:36:39 AM
It's interesting how they treat predators differently. For example, with salmon, they set the seasons to specifically kill every one possible without doing actual population harm (even that is arguable, as they are plenty happy reducing escapement goals and harvesting more, harvesting until ESA, etc.). With cougars, there is no argument that the actual population is suffering. Just some study that says cougars interact different if we kill a few more.I think one major difference is that all salmon returning are going to die that year, so harvesting as many as you can up to the point that it does not effect recruitment is a solid principle...not the case for animals with an indefinite life span like cougars, wolves, elk etc.
It begs the question: why are we OK harvesting some animals to the brink of what's biologically sustainable and not OK doing the same with others?
Post by: WSU on August 15, 2018, 11:38:10 AM
It's interesting how they treat predators differently. For example, with salmon, they set the seasons to specifically kill every one possible without doing actual population harm (even that is arguable, as they are plenty happy reducing escapement goals and harvesting more, harvesting until ESA, etc.). With cougars, there is no argument that the actual population is suffering. Just some study that says cougars interact different if we kill a few more.I think one major difference is that all salmon returning are going to die that year, so harvesting as many as you can up to the point that it does not effect recruitment is a solid principle...not the case for animals with an indefinite life span like cougars, wolves, elk etc.
It begs the question: why are we OK harvesting some animals to the brink of what's biologically sustainable and not OK doing the same with others?
Except it absolutely has an effect on recruitment.
Post by: idahohuntr on August 15, 2018, 11:53:03 AM
Yes, particularly if they overharvest...but it still addresses your overall question...major difference in life history is why harvest management is so different.It's interesting how they treat predators differently. For example, with salmon, they set the seasons to specifically kill every one possible without doing actual population harm (even that is arguable, as they are plenty happy reducing escapement goals and harvesting more, harvesting until ESA, etc.). With cougars, there is no argument that the actual population is suffering. Just some study that says cougars interact different if we kill a few more.I think one major difference is that all salmon returning are going to die that year, so harvesting as many as you can up to the point that it does not effect recruitment is a solid principle...not the case for animals with an indefinite life span like cougars, wolves, elk etc.
It begs the question: why are we OK harvesting some animals to the brink of what's biologically sustainable and not OK doing the same with others?
Except it absolutely has an effect on recruitment.
Post by: jagermiester on August 15, 2018, 12:48:30 PM
Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take. In other states MT for example it feels more like they are managing the resource so that it will be there in the future but they know that they need and want the hunting oportunity to exist and be successful. Without us and more importantly future generations of us this whole thing will fall flat on its face. The more expensive and the more complicated it gets the less likely it is to succeed in the future.
Post by: Special T on August 15, 2018, 01:57:29 PM
I like this idea because it's simple, unencumbered by traditional political constraints, and seems like low hanging fruit.Here's an easy one: year round rabbits.
We can hunt them year round in Oregon and it's not like they all get shot out. Hunting is best in June when all the really stupid ones are hopping around and are the perfect age for eating. They're good introductory game and perfect for kids, but I'm definitely not going out for them during Washington's season because there's too many other things to hunt at that time of year.
Please expand on your experience in Oregon... We dont have the jackrabbits like Easter Oregon has... Certainly not in any numbers that ive heard of...
I don't do the jackrabbit shoots, but we have a good and stable population of cottontails over the whole state. I can't think of any reason that Washington would need a closed season. I believe that rabbits are able to withstand enormous amounts of pressure without problems. Anyone that has tried to clear a farm of them can attest to that.
Basically, there's no biological reason that it closes in Washington, just tradition and not enough rabbit hunters out there anymore to bring it up at the meetings.
I love lots of the ideas some of the ideas seem pretty simple but the more detail on the ideas the better.
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Post by: Special T on August 15, 2018, 02:00:23 PM
Eliminate cougar quotas. I know you don't want to hear about wolves but sorry. Wolves need delisting and managing. The NE corner of the state is suffering and the wolves need to be controlled there. They need to fear contact with man..I hear you... just trying to brainstorm the probable solutions. I think sportsmen can have more success in changing.
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Post by: Special T on August 15, 2018, 02:01:19 PM
Our new director is very hesitant to pull the trigger on wolves, wants more studying done. The Togo pack has met the threshold for lethal removal. The new director waffles.I think your right that this event will be very telling.
https://www.kxly.com/news/wolf-pack-kills-a-cow-in-eastern-wa/781416438QuoteSPOKANE, Wash. (AP) - Members of the Togo wolf pack in the Colville National Forest of eastern Washington state killed one cow and injured another last week.
The state Department of Fish and Wildlife says the Togo pack is responsible for five depredations in the past 10 months, including two last November and one in May.
The agency said Monday that it was alerted last week about a potential wolf depredation near Danville, Washington. Staff have confirmed the cow was killed by a wolf or wolves.
The agency's policy allows the killing of wolves that prey on livestock three times in a 30-day period or four times in a 10-month period.
The agency says it will continue to monitor the Togo pack as it considers its next steps.
http://www.capitalpress.com/Washington/20180813/togo-wolfpack-attacks-livestock-again-in-ne-washingtonQuoteA wolfpack in northeast Washington has reached the threshold for Fish and Wildlife to consider lethal removal
Fish and Wildlife director Kelly Susewind, less than a month on the job, told wildlife managers to work over the weekend to confirm the number of adults in the pack and learn as much as possible about the pack’s activities before he considers further action, according to a department statement Saturday.
Remember the first calf "didn't count" because the rancher wasn't using range riders, fladdery or these stupid fox lights (all a joke) but what the article doesn't mention is this rancher has a ton of family, he's literally related to half the county :chuckle: and they're up there all the time with ATV's and such.
And we're talking about confirmed kills, there's a lot more unconfirmed and missing cattle.
My suggestion to the new director is he take immediate and decisive action on the wolves.
Historically WDFW has done everything they could to turn an easily documented wolf depredation into anything but a wolf kill/attack. I would suggest they back on on that notion and actually do their best to determine cause of death/attack on livestock free from bias.
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Post by: lokidog on August 15, 2018, 02:08:28 PM
Follow the rules and use solid science. That would resolve about 90% of what has been posted so far.
Where's the emotion and compassion in that?? :o :o
Post by: bigtex on August 15, 2018, 06:52:13 PM
Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.
There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.
I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.
There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on August 15, 2018, 07:02:19 PM
Post by: KFhunter on August 15, 2018, 07:14:58 PM
Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.
There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.
I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.
There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.
We could go back a few years and see what they looked like then. The argument would then be: "why do they need to be so different now?"
It would be a fun exercise in the justification of all these new rules and regs.
Post by: idahohuntr on August 15, 2018, 07:53:57 PM
The root cause of complex regulations is usually trying to maximize opportunity in a very constrained environment.Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.
There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.
I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.
There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.
We could go back a few years and see what they looked like then. The argument would then be: "why do they need to be so different now?"
It would be a fun exercise in the justification of all these new rules and regs.
"Closed" is a simple regulation.
That said, Washington has some stupid rules put in place that penalize legal hunters under the auspices of catching poachers. Apparently game wardens in Wa are dumber than all the wardens in the rest of the northwest.
Post by: bigtex on August 15, 2018, 08:29:10 PM
Each state has "stupid rules".The root cause of complex regulations is usually trying to maximize opportunity in a very constrained environment.Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.
There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.
I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.
There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.
We could go back a few years and see what they looked like then. The argument would then be: "why do they need to be so different now?"
It would be a fun exercise in the justification of all these new rules and regs.
"Closed" is a simple regulation.
That said, Washington has some stupid rules put in place that penalize legal hunters under the auspices of catching poachers. Apparently game wardens in Wa are dumber than all the wardens in the rest of the northwest.
Some of the states in the Midwest require your license be displayed on your back at all times.
Some states require your name be attached to your tree-stand/blind.
Some states require every big game animal taken be inspected by some government official in order for the tag to be "official."
A couple states still ban hunting on Sundays
Post by: idahohuntr on August 15, 2018, 08:43:19 PM
None of the rules you cited restrict law abiding sportsman from engaging in otherwise open/legal seasons. Things like no rifle while archery hunting (even though bear season is open) is what I'm referring to...again, it must be that Wa has inferior wardens.Each state has "stupid rules".The root cause of complex regulations is usually trying to maximize opportunity in a very constrained environment.Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.
There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.
I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.
There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.
We could go back a few years and see what they looked like then. The argument would then be: "why do they need to be so different now?"
It would be a fun exercise in the justification of all these new rules and regs.
"Closed" is a simple regulation.
That said, Washington has some stupid rules put in place that penalize legal hunters under the auspices of catching poachers. Apparently game wardens in Wa are dumber than all the wardens in the rest of the northwest.
Some of the states in the Midwest require your license be displayed on your back at all times.
Some states require your name be attached to your tree-stand/blind.
Some states require every big game animal taken be inspected by some government official in order for the tag to be "official."
A couple states still ban hunting on Sundays
Post by: KFhunter on August 15, 2018, 09:15:56 PM
meh, no reason to attack WDFW Police, they don't write the rules.
My point is WDFW Olympia is a self serving bureaucracy, in another thread we're all talking about the increase in licenses and tags and request for more funds "to being back services that declined or went away since the recession" but it's not to gain access, open roads, improve habitat or to in any way make things better for hunting, fishing, or outdoor recreation...it's all to fund the behemoth in Olympia (and grow it) so they can churn out more and more regulations.
Post by: Stein on August 15, 2018, 09:29:09 PM
So, either everyone pays or only those who pay have a say. I'm good with either approach.
Post by: idahohuntr on August 15, 2018, 09:36:33 PM
Washington doesn't have wardens.Where do you think the crap comes from that I just described? Its proposed and supported by weak minded wdfw police and administrators.
meh, no reason to attack WDFW Police, they don't write the rules.
My point is WDFW Olympia is a self serving bureaucracy, in another thread we're all talking about the increase in licenses and tags and request for more funds "to being back services that declined or went away since the recession" but it's not to gain access, open roads, improve habitat or to in any way make things better for hunting, fishing, or outdoor recreation...it's all to fund the behemoth in Olympia (and grow it) so they can churn out more and more regulations.
Post by: KFhunter on August 15, 2018, 10:55:25 PM
I was glad when they lost the court ruling allowing handguns while archery hunting
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 16, 2018, 05:54:13 AM
Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.
There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.
I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.
There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.
Indeed. If people took the time to read a few other states, they’d see that there are seemingly odd and arbitrary rules in more than a few.
Btw... I REALLY wish I had one of those tags last year
Post by: Special T on August 16, 2018, 06:41:39 AM
I do have sympathy for WDFW in that Olympia jacked their funding for whatever they spend it on. Thus, I'm all for an across the board tax on every citizen in WA to manage their property and wildlife as opposed to lumping a huge portion on sportsmen and then given everyone a say in every cute animal management plan.There seems to be a series of problems with how the User Pays fee based system is executed and who those services go to. The Discover Pass is the most blaring and obnoxious example.
So, either everyone pays or only those who pay have a say. I'm good with either approach.
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Post by: blackveltbowhunter on August 16, 2018, 08:17:02 AM
Focus heavily on improving hunting access. It is so critical to retention, recruitment and the future of hunting it should be the highest priority program in WDFW.
Some specifics:
1. Get rid of the hunt by permission scam...and any loopholes that allow people to enroll in programs that don't actually give average sportsmen much benefit.
2. Substantially increase funding to pay for access agreements. Prioritize long term agreements to large land tracts.
3. Incentivize landowners to provide access...tax breaks, habitat work, patrols, maybe even limited numbers of tags.
4. Setup a committee of sportsmen to prioritize how access funding is spent.
Frankly, if wdfw said they needed 30 million to open up all the private western wa timberlands and a bunch of other areas in this state, I'd drive to Olympia to advocate on their behalf. 30 million to pay a bunch of wolf facilitators, management positions etc...they can pound sand.
:yeah: x10 in the world of Hunter recruitment that so many on here are always talking about, all of it pales in comparison to access to decent hunting area. Telling a brand new Hunter to just lay down boot leather in gpnf and risk seeing nothing, or go buy a 300 dollar pass in a 5 minute time slot for some untried private timberland is hurting hunter recruitment way more than the random negative comment on huntwa. IMO
Post by: Fishmaker57 on August 16, 2018, 10:22:46 AM
So....on to suggestions for Director Susewind:
Change policies so that every new regulation is reviewed by enforcement BEFORE putting them into effect. If you bother to ask enforcement as a whole, they will tell you that there are many regulations that are simply not enforceable.
Management....so top heavy the whole ship is about to tip over! Just because a large part of outside funding is federal and linked to ESA, it doesn't mean you have to hire more WMS3 positions to oversee these activities.
Science: Former Director Bern Shanks wasn't perfect, but the smartest thing he ever said was "we will be making all of our management decisions based on the best available science". I'm really not sure you could point to any decisions made in the last 10 years that followed this protocol. Management decisions today are made based on money, and who are we going to piss off, and how not to get sued. The only sure way to defend a decision, in fish & wildlife management, is science.
Harvest: Stop commercially harvesting all fish, unless it is a terminal area (lower Columbia SAFE program). WDFW allowed commercial harvest of Herring to go basically unchecked, until several stocks became ESA listed. You can't expect Puget Sound Salmon and Steelhead to recover if there isn't any FOOD!! Ask anyone who has fished Puget Sound for the last 20 years; you simply don't see the bait like we used to. The new plan to produce 10 million more salmon (for Orca Recovery) won't do much good if there isn't anything for them to eat.
Mule Deer: Someone please name me a state where they manage Mule Deer on a 3-point minimum! Due to this management decision, you have practically eliminated the genetics that produce eye guards. In Douglas County, I can show you 30+ two points almost any day of the week, in a matter of hours. I can also show you 2-points pushing 30" that do the majority of the breeding. I have hunted the Winthrop area since 1981, and back then there were more hunters than today, and we would still see 150+ deer everyday, without getting out of the truck. The local wildlife biologist has stated there are as many mule deer today as ever.....people just have to get out in the woods. Really? Just another symptom of the problem, too many biologists who are desk jockeys and need to get outside!
Elk: Spike versus True Spike? Are you kidding me? Absolutely no science behind this decision.....and enforcement will tell you there are many more 1x2 dead elk laying in the Clockum then 1x branch that were killed when it was legal.
The list goes on and on, and if only WDFW would create a citizens panel, made up of people who actually hunted and fished (more than once) as a sounding board for proposed management decisions, they just might win some of us back......
Post by: jagermiester on August 16, 2018, 11:18:04 AM
Each state has "stupid rules".The root cause of complex regulations is usually trying to maximize opportunity in a very constrained environment.Right now it feels like I need a lawyer to help me navigate a complicated system so that I can harvest an animal or catch a fish that they don't really want me to take.People say this same thing in every state "the regs are too confusing." I've asked game wardens across the country this and they've all heard this.
There are some states that don't even publish the actual season dates but rather state something along the lines of "Last Saturday in October extending for 25 days" and it is up to the hunter/angler to figure out the exact season.
I was recently in Texas where you can buy an "extra red drum tag" which allows you to take a red drum over the legal size limit, but it turns out you can buy this tag without first purchasing a fishing license but the tag is only applicable if you have also purchased a fishing license. Guess how many people get cited for fishing without a license in Texas because they simply have the extra red drum tag but not a fishing license, a bunch.
There are some states with simpler regs, but there are also states with more complex regs.
We could go back a few years and see what they looked like then. The argument would then be: "why do they need to be so different now?"
It would be a fun exercise in the justification of all these new rules and regs.
"Closed" is a simple regulation.
That said, Washington has some stupid rules put in place that penalize legal hunters under the auspices of catching poachers. Apparently game wardens in Wa are dumber than all the wardens in the rest of the northwest.
Some of the states in the Midwest require your license be displayed on your back at all times.
Some states require your name be attached to your tree-stand/blind.
Some states require every big game animal taken be inspected by some government official in order for the tag to be "official."
A couple states still ban hunting on Sundays
Just to clarify I think all of this is what we need to avoid.....
Right??
I can imagine a world where we buy our hunting licenses and tags online and need very little paper trail. Follow the regs and if we get stopped by a warden we would give them our Wild ID they can look up our information. If we have a animal that needs a tag it would be on that animal. New hunters take a simple class and that's it. I realize this is grossly over simplified but this is the culture thing that I was talking about in my initial post. Right now it feels like it is becoming us against them.
I will say this; the few times that I have had interactions with Wardens in the field over the last 30 years. They have all been pleasant and low key cool headed individuals.
Post by: huntnphool on August 16, 2018, 11:48:36 AM
After spending 20+ years with both the Dept. of Fisheries, then living through the merger with Dept. of Wildlife, I have some very strong feelings / opinions about the current state of affairs and past mistakes. Unfortunately, while I no longer work for WDFW, I continue to see the same mistakes being made, and the continuing saga of poor management decisions. Merger was by far the worse decision made in the history of both agencies (IMHO). They took two agencies, that by most accounts were solvent, and made them into one agency with a huge target on it's back. The move was supposedly made to save money.....obviously that didn't pan out. Wildlife was by and large a fee agency, basically in control of it's own dollars and made decisions that helped the folks that payed the bills.....us! Sure, not all decisions were scientifically sound (Chambers Creek Steelhead), but until mass marking came along, we all caught a bunch more fish! Fisheries existed on both fee and general fund dollars, but prior to 1994, general fund dollars were not spread as thin, and a larger piece of the pie was set aside for all of natural resources. Today, due to population growth and the bleeding heart liberals, all of natural resources get less than 1% of the general fund.
So....on to suggestions for Director Susewind:
Change policies so that every new regulation is reviewed by enforcement BEFORE putting them into effect. If you bother to ask enforcement as a whole, they will tell you that there are many regulations that are simply not enforceable.
Management....so top heavy the whole ship is about to tip over! Just because a large part of outside funding is federal and linked to ESA, it doesn't mean you have to hire more WMS3 positions to oversee these activities.
Science: Former Director Bern Shanks wasn't perfect, but the smartest thing he ever said was "we will be making all of our management decisions based on the best available science". I'm really not sure you could point to any decisions made in the last 10 years that followed this protocol. Management decisions today are made based on money, and who are we going to piss off, and how not to get sued. The only sure way to defend a decision, in fish & wildlife management, is science.
Harvest: Stop commercially harvesting all fish, unless it is a terminal area (lower Columbia SAFE program). WDFW allowed commercial harvest of Herring to go basically unchecked, until several stocks became ESA listed. You can't expect Puget Sound Salmon and Steelhead to recover if there isn't any FOOD!! Ask anyone who has fished Puget Sound for the last 20 years; you simply don't see the bait like we used to. The new plan to produce 10 million more salmon (for Orca Recovery) won't do much good if there isn't anything for them to eat.
Mule Deer: Someone please name me a state where they manage Mule Deer on a 3-point minimum! Due to this management decision, you have practically eliminated the genetics that produce eye guards. In Douglas County, I can show you 30+ two points almost any day of the week, in a matter of hours. I can also show you 2-points pushing 30" that do the majority of the breeding. I have hunted the Winthrop area since 1981, and back then there were more hunters than today, and we would still see 150+ deer everyday, without getting out of the truck. The local wildlife biologist has stated there are as many mule deer today as ever.....people just have to get out in the woods. Really? Just another symptom of the problem, too many biologists who are desk jockeys and need to get outside!
Elk: Spike versus True Spike? Are you kidding me? Absolutely no science behind this decision.....and enforcement will tell you there are many more 1x2 dead elk laying in the Clockum then 1x branch that were killed when it was legal.
The list goes on and on, and if only WDFW would create a citizens panel, made up of people who actually hunted and fished (more than once) as a sounding board for proposed management decisions, they just might win some of us back......
:brew:
Post by: vandeman17 on August 16, 2018, 11:50:38 AM
After spending 20+ years with both the Dept. of Fisheries, then living through the merger with Dept. of Wildlife, I have some very strong feelings / opinions about the current state of affairs and past mistakes. Unfortunately, while I no longer work for WDFW, I continue to see the same mistakes being made, and the continuing saga of poor management decisions. Merger was by far the worse decision made in the history of both agencies (IMHO). They took two agencies, that by most accounts were solvent, and made them into one agency with a huge target on it's back. The move was supposedly made to save money.....obviously that didn't pan out. Wildlife was by and large a fee agency, basically in control of it's own dollars and made decisions that helped the folks that payed the bills.....us! Sure, not all decisions were scientifically sound (Chambers Creek Steelhead), but until mass marking came along, we all caught a bunch more fish! Fisheries existed on both fee and general fund dollars, but prior to 1994, general fund dollars were not spread as thin, and a larger piece of the pie was set aside for all of natural resources. Today, due to population growth and the bleeding heart liberals, all of natural resources get less than 1% of the general fund.
So....on to suggestions for Director Susewind:
Change policies so that every new regulation is reviewed by enforcement BEFORE putting them into effect. If you bother to ask enforcement as a whole, they will tell you that there are many regulations that are simply not enforceable.
Management....so top heavy the whole ship is about to tip over! Just because a large part of outside funding is federal and linked to ESA, it doesn't mean you have to hire more WMS3 positions to oversee these activities.
Science: Former Director Bern Shanks wasn't perfect, but the smartest thing he ever said was "we will be making all of our management decisions based on the best available science". I'm really not sure you could point to any decisions made in the last 10 years that followed this protocol. Management decisions today are made based on money, and who are we going to piss off, and how not to get sued. The only sure way to defend a decision, in fish & wildlife management, is science.
Harvest: Stop commercially harvesting all fish, unless it is a terminal area (lower Columbia SAFE program). WDFW allowed commercial harvest of Herring to go basically unchecked, until several stocks became ESA listed. You can't expect Puget Sound Salmon and Steelhead to recover if there isn't any FOOD!! Ask anyone who has fished Puget Sound for the last 20 years; you simply don't see the bait like we used to. The new plan to produce 10 million more salmon (for Orca Recovery) won't do much good if there isn't anything for them to eat.
Mule Deer: Someone please name me a state where they manage Mule Deer on a 3-point minimum! Due to this management decision, you have practically eliminated the genetics that produce eye guards. In Douglas County, I can show you 30+ two points almost any day of the week, in a matter of hours. I can also show you 2-points pushing 30" that do the majority of the breeding. I have hunted the Winthrop area since 1981, and back then there were more hunters than today, and we would still see 150+ deer everyday, without getting out of the truck. The local wildlife biologist has stated there are as many mule deer today as ever.....people just have to get out in the woods. Really? Just another symptom of the problem, too many biologists who are desk jockeys and need to get outside!
Elk: Spike versus True Spike? Are you kidding me? Absolutely no science behind this decision.....and enforcement will tell you there are many more 1x2 dead elk laying in the Clockum then 1x branch that were killed when it was legal.
The list goes on and on, and if only WDFW would create a citizens panel, made up of people who actually hunted and fished (more than once) as a sounding board for proposed management decisions, they just might win some of us back......
:rockin:
Post by: bearpaw on August 16, 2018, 12:17:44 PM
After spending 20+ years with both the Dept. of Fisheries, then living through the merger with Dept. of Wildlife, I have some very strong feelings / opinions about the current state of affairs and past mistakes. Unfortunately, while I no longer work for WDFW, I continue to see the same mistakes being made, and the continuing saga of poor management decisions. Merger was by far the worse decision made in the history of both agencies (IMHO). They took two agencies, that by most accounts were solvent, and made them into one agency with a huge target on it's back. The move was supposedly made to save money.....obviously that didn't pan out. Wildlife was by and large a fee agency, basically in control of it's own dollars and made decisions that helped the folks that payed the bills.....us! Sure, not all decisions were scientifically sound (Chambers Creek Steelhead), but until mass marking came along, we all caught a bunch more fish! Fisheries existed on both fee and general fund dollars, but prior to 1994, general fund dollars were not spread as thin, and a larger piece of the pie was set aside for all of natural resources. Today, due to population growth and the bleeding heart liberals, all of natural resources get less than 1% of the general fund.
So....on to suggestions for Director Susewind:
Change policies so that every new regulation is reviewed by enforcement BEFORE putting them into effect. If you bother to ask enforcement as a whole, they will tell you that there are many regulations that are simply not enforceable.
Management....so top heavy the whole ship is about to tip over! Just because a large part of outside funding is federal and linked to ESA, it doesn't mean you have to hire more WMS3 positions to oversee these activities.
Science: Former Director Bern Shanks wasn't perfect, but the smartest thing he ever said was "we will be making all of our management decisions based on the best available science". I'm really not sure you could point to any decisions made in the last 10 years that followed this protocol. Management decisions today are made based on money, and who are we going to piss off, and how not to get sued. The only sure way to defend a decision, in fish & wildlife management, is science.
Harvest: Stop commercially harvesting all fish, unless it is a terminal area (lower Columbia SAFE program). WDFW allowed commercial harvest of Herring to go basically unchecked, until several stocks became ESA listed. You can't expect Puget Sound Salmon and Steelhead to recover if there isn't any FOOD!! Ask anyone who has fished Puget Sound for the last 20 years; you simply don't see the bait like we used to. The new plan to produce 10 million more salmon (for Orca Recovery) won't do much good if there isn't anything for them to eat.
Mule Deer: Someone please name me a state where they manage Mule Deer on a 3-point minimum! Due to this management decision, you have practically eliminated the genetics that produce eye guards. In Douglas County, I can show you 30+ two points almost any day of the week, in a matter of hours. I can also show you 2-points pushing 30" that do the majority of the breeding. I have hunted the Winthrop area since 1981, and back then there were more hunters than today, and we would still see 150+ deer everyday, without getting out of the truck. The local wildlife biologist has stated there are as many mule deer today as ever.....people just have to get out in the woods. Really? Just another symptom of the problem, too many biologists who are desk jockeys and need to get outside!
Elk: Spike versus True Spike? Are you kidding me? Absolutely no science behind this decision.....and enforcement will tell you there are many more 1x2 dead elk laying in the Clockum then 1x branch that were killed when it was legal.
The list goes on and on, and if only WDFW would create a citizens panel, made up of people who actually hunted and fished (more than once) as a sounding board for proposed management decisions, they just might win some of us back......
Mule Deer
If there was no point restriction on mule deer I'm afraid we wouldn't have many breeders with any number of points in the NE. Perhaps it should be a 4 point rule or draw rather than 3 point in some units like Douglas County? Maybe it should be two point only for a couple years. We had 2 point only in part of Idaho for several years and the big bucks really flourished. Some people will say draw would be better, but it's amazing how many hunters I talk to from states with draws that wish they had over the counter tags like states in the pacific northwest. Additionally, if youth have to draw we won't be recruiting many hunters.
Post by: vandeman17 on August 16, 2018, 12:44:01 PM
Post by: Dhoey07 on August 16, 2018, 01:19:01 PM
After spending 20+ years with both the Dept. of Fisheries, then living through the merger with Dept. of Wildlife, I have some very strong feelings / opinions about the current state of affairs and past mistakes. Unfortunately, while I no longer work for WDFW, I continue to see the same mistakes being made, and the continuing saga of poor management decisions. Merger was by far the worse decision made in the history of both agencies (IMHO). They took two agencies, that by most accounts were solvent, and made them into one agency with a huge target on it's back. The move was supposedly made to save money.....obviously that didn't pan out. Wildlife was by and large a fee agency, basically in control of it's own dollars and made decisions that helped the folks that payed the bills.....us! Sure, not all decisions were scientifically sound (Chambers Creek Steelhead), but until mass marking came along, we all caught a bunch more fish! Fisheries existed on both fee and general fund dollars, but prior to 1994, general fund dollars were not spread as thin, and a larger piece of the pie was set aside for all of natural resources. Today, due to population growth and the bleeding heart liberals, all of natural resources get less than 1% of the general fund.
So....on to suggestions for Director Susewind:
Change policies so that every new regulation is reviewed by enforcement BEFORE putting them into effect. If you bother to ask enforcement as a whole, they will tell you that there are many regulations that are simply not enforceable.
Management....so top heavy the whole ship is about to tip over! Just because a large part of outside funding is federal and linked to ESA, it doesn't mean you have to hire more WMS3 positions to oversee these activities.
Science: Former Director Bern Shanks wasn't perfect, but the smartest thing he ever said was "we will be making all of our management decisions based on the best available science". I'm really not sure you could point to any decisions made in the last 10 years that followed this protocol. Management decisions today are made based on money, and who are we going to piss off, and how not to get sued. The only sure way to defend a decision, in fish & wildlife management, is science.
Harvest: Stop commercially harvesting all fish, unless it is a terminal area (lower Columbia SAFE program). WDFW allowed commercial harvest of Herring to go basically unchecked, until several stocks became ESA listed. You can't expect Puget Sound Salmon and Steelhead to recover if there isn't any FOOD!! Ask anyone who has fished Puget Sound for the last 20 years; you simply don't see the bait like we used to. The new plan to produce 10 million more salmon (for Orca Recovery) won't do much good if there isn't anything for them to eat.
Mule Deer: Someone please name me a state where they manage Mule Deer on a 3-point minimum! Due to this management decision, you have practically eliminated the genetics that produce eye guards. In Douglas County, I can show you 30+ two points almost any day of the week, in a matter of hours. I can also show you 2-points pushing 30" that do the majority of the breeding. I have hunted the Winthrop area since 1981, and back then there were more hunters than today, and we would still see 150+ deer everyday, without getting out of the truck. The local wildlife biologist has stated there are as many mule deer today as ever.....people just have to get out in the woods. Really? Just another symptom of the problem, too many biologists who are desk jockeys and need to get outside!
Elk: Spike versus True Spike? Are you kidding me? Absolutely no science behind this decision.....and enforcement will tell you there are many more 1x2 dead elk laying in the Clockum then 1x branch that were killed when it was legal.
The list goes on and on, and if only WDFW would create a citizens panel, made up of people who actually hunted and fished (more than once) as a sounding board for proposed management decisions, they just might win some of us back......
Mule Deer
If there was no point restriction on mule deer I'm afraid we wouldn't have many breeders with any number of points in the NE. Perhaps it should be a 4 point rule or draw rather than 3 point in some units like Douglas County? Maybe it should be two point only for a couple years. We had 2 point only in part of Idaho for several years and the big bucks really flourished. Some people will say draw would be better, but it's amazing how many hunters I talk to from states with draws that wish they had over the counter tags like states in the pacific northwest. Additionally, if youth have to draw we won't be recruiting many hunters.
I hunted elk in a unit that was OTC for 2 points only and Draw for Any Buck. I saw some absolute mashers in that unit. .....
Post by: bigmacc on August 16, 2018, 05:02:53 PM
After spending 20+ years with both the Dept. of Fisheries, then living through the merger with Dept. of Wildlife, I have some very strong feelings / opinions about the current state of affairs and past mistakes. Unfortunately, while I no longer work for WDFW, I continue to see the same mistakes being made, and the continuing saga of poor management decisions. Merger was by far the worse decision made in the history of both agencies (IMHO). They took two agencies, that by most accounts were solvent, and made them into one agency with a huge target on it's back. The move was supposedly made to save money.....obviously that didn't pan out. Wildlife was by and large a fee agency, basically in control of it's own dollars and made decisions that helped the folks that payed the bills.....us! Sure, not all decisions were scientifically sound (Chambers Creek Steelhead), but until mass marking came along, we all caught a bunch more fish! Fisheries existed on both fee and general fund dollars, but prior to 1994, general fund dollars were not spread as thin, and a larger piece of the pie was set aside for all of natural resources. Today, due to population growth and the bleeding heart liberals, all of natural resources get less than 1% of the general fund.
So....on to suggestions for Director Susewind:
Change policies so that every new regulation is reviewed by enforcement BEFORE putting them into effect. If you bother to ask enforcement as a whole, they will tell you that there are many regulations that are simply not enforceable.
Management....so top heavy the whole ship is about to tip over! Just because a large part of outside funding is federal and linked to ESA, it doesn't mean you have to hire more WMS3 positions to oversee these activities.
Science: Former Director Bern Shanks wasn't perfect, but the smartest thing he ever said was "we will be making all of our management decisions based on the best available science". I'm really not sure you could point to any decisions made in the last 10 years that followed this protocol. Management decisions today are made based on money, and who are we going to piss off, and how not to get sued. The only sure way to defend a decision, in fish & wildlife management, is science.
Harvest: Stop commercially harvesting all fish, unless it is a terminal area (lower Columbia SAFE program). WDFW allowed commercial harvest of Herring to go basically unchecked, until several stocks became ESA listed. You can't expect Puget Sound Salmon and Steelhead to recover if there isn't any FOOD!! Ask anyone who has fished Puget Sound for the last 20 years; you simply don't see the bait like we used to. The new plan to produce 10 million more salmon (for Orca Recovery) won't do much good if there isn't anything for them to eat.
Mule Deer: Someone please name me a state where they manage Mule Deer on a 3-point minimum! Due to this management decision, you have practically eliminated the genetics that produce eye guards. In Douglas County, I can show you 30+ two points almost any day of the week, in a matter of hours. I can also show you 2-points pushing 30" that do the majority of the breeding. I have hunted the Winthrop area since 1981, and back then there were more hunters than today, and we would still see 150+ deer everyday, without getting out of the truck. The local wildlife biologist has stated there are as many mule deer today as ever.....people just have to get out in the woods. Really? Just another symptom of the problem, too many biologists who are desk jockeys and need to get outside!
Elk: Spike versus True Spike? Are you kidding me? Absolutely no science behind this decision.....and enforcement will tell you there are many more 1x2 dead elk laying in the Clockum then 1x branch that were killed when it was legal.
The list goes on and on, and if only WDFW would create a citizens panel, made up of people who actually hunted and fished (more than once) as a sounding board for proposed management decisions, they just might win some of us back......
:tup: :yeah:.....I still stay in touch with 3 folks who worked for the pre 94 Game dept and they all pretty much mimic your post word for word, especially about WDFW becoming way to top heavy and the new breed of bios that are booksmart but have no clue whats going on in the real world of our wildlife especially the ungulates, in fact one of them says these new bios "don't like to get their boots dirty" and he's not joking when he says it. !00% agree with your Winthrop area Mule deer observations, my family has hunted the Methow since 1917 and I have told many stories on here including pictures about the hay day of that herd and how it is now a mere shadow of what it once was and is continuing its tailspin. I remember as you do seeing 100,s in a days worth of roaming the hill over there as a kid in the 60,s and 70,s during hunting season, I counted over 200 come up a draw I was watching during a migration that had no animals with an antler, not even a spike all does and fawns, then 5 days later sitting on the same draw we counted 4 different groups of 30 or more head come up throughout the day with around 50 bucks(mostly 2points, 3points and some smaller 4,s) total mixed into the 4 groups and we let them all walk because we knew the big fellas would be coming through in the next couple days. I have litteraly 100,s of these kind of memories and 1000,s of pictures of this once thriving herd. Its just a shame what the mis-management along with the coddling of predators which includes the introduction of a new predator has done to this herd....Great post Fishmaker57.
Post by: Mudman on August 16, 2018, 06:40:35 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 18, 2018, 02:50:22 PM
Post by: fireweed on August 27, 2018, 06:59:35 PM
Focus heavily on improving hunting access. It is so critical to retention, recruitment and the future of hunting it should be the highest priority program in WDFW.
Some specifics:
1. Get rid of the hunt by permission scam...and any loopholes that allow people to enroll in programs that don't actually give average sportsmen much benefit.
2. Substantially increase funding to pay for access agreements. Prioritize long term agreements to large land tracts.
3. Incentivize landowners to provide access...tax breaks, habitat work, patrols, maybe even limited numbers of tags.
4. Setup a committee of sportsmen to prioritize how access funding is spent.
Frankly, if wdfw said they needed 30 million to open up all the private western wa timberlands and a bunch of other areas in this state, I'd drive to Olympia to advocate on their behalf. 30 million to pay a bunch of wolf facilitators, management positions etc...they can pound sand.
I agree with the access focus. There are so many things that could be done to improve access, starting with a look at the tax breaks that industrial timberland gets. They should not get the full property tax shift (paid for by neighbors) if they charge for non-motorized access. Several other states do this, but our state won't even look into it because they are scared of big timber.
2. No damage tags (including bear) unless the land is open for free during regular hunting seasons.
3. The WDFW needs to work with the DNR on access. Many old roads have DNR easements on them that were put there to access state land, and now those DNR sections are illegally locked behind some timber baron's gate, with a fee for entry. All anyone really needs to do is dig a little, and find that many of these "landlocked" state lands already have state access easements that the DNR can transfer to the WDFW.
4) KISS Keep it simple, Stupid.
the effort last year to make the fishing regs easier made them even more complicated.
We need a BS degree in regulations just to figure out how to fish our rivers anymore. No newbie will ever take up hunting or fishing without someone walking them through this regulation quagmire. Many of the rules just make violators out of honest people, and others are simply unenforceable. With all the DNA and new technology, some of the tag/transport rules could be made obsolete.
Post by: satchel3006 on August 27, 2018, 07:36:24 PM
Post by: lokidog on August 27, 2018, 11:13:22 PM
How about a squirrel season? I see squirrels everywhere in the forest yet we can’t hunt them due to the eastern (I think) grey squirrel being protected? That would aid in hunter recruitment for kids and such. I also agree for a year round rabbit season. Rifles for fall turkeys?
Hunting is allowed for Eastern Gray squirrels and Eastern Fox squirrels. The Western Grays and all of the little pine/douglas squirrels are
protected.
Post by: satchel3006 on August 28, 2018, 07:27:28 PM
Post by: bobcat on August 28, 2018, 07:43:08 PM
Post by: Bob33 on August 28, 2018, 07:51:21 PM
Western Grey Squirrels are listed as an endangered species. There's no way they'd have a hunting season on them."Threatened." ;)
http://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-200-100 (http://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-200-100)
Post by: bobcat on August 28, 2018, 07:58:30 PM
Western Grey Squirrels are listed as an endangered species. There's no way they'd have a hunting season on them."Threatened." ;)
http://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-200-100 (http://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-200-100)
Oh okay, just going by memory, but the effect is still the same. No hunting season.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 28, 2018, 08:01:52 PM
Western Grey Squirrels are listed as an endangered species. There's no way they'd have a hunting season on them.For Washington. In Oregon you can shoot the snot out of them.
Post by: lokidog on August 28, 2018, 09:50:28 PM
But there’s really no mention of that except under the unclassified wildlife. But it effectively doesn’t matter since at least to my eyes and eastern and western gray squirrel look exactly the same. An actual established season would be much better imo
Sure, they pretty much look alike... but the Westerns are protected based on location, so even an Eastern running around in an area that has Westerns is probably safe.
Post by: huntnphool on August 28, 2018, 11:35:55 PM
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,230156.msg3073459.html#msg3073459
How about suggestions concerning this?
Post by: satchel3006 on August 29, 2018, 08:16:47 AM