Post by: jadeball1 on September 26, 2018, 09:40:28 PM
Post by: bornhunter on September 26, 2018, 09:46:08 PM
Post by: bigtex on September 26, 2018, 10:10:45 PM
What are the violations? You can send me a private message if you want. Some infractions count towards license suspension, some don't. All criminal offenses count towards suspension.
Post by: Mfowl on September 26, 2018, 10:42:25 PM
Post by: Special T on September 26, 2018, 11:31:08 PM
No personal experience but someone I know received a suspension. Their appeal was denied. None of the infractions were criminal. 2 fishing salmon with barbed hooks (or insufficiently crimped hooks) and one pulling a shrimp pot after fishing time ended. Even though the shrimp were rail dumped and not retained. Had he known better at the time he would have fought each infraction as they occured. Since he paid them they counted towards his license suspension instead.I would give up hunting and fishing if that was how I lost my ability to hunt/fish.
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Post by: pianoman9701 on September 27, 2018, 09:16:52 AM
Post by: N7XW on September 27, 2018, 09:25:31 AM
:cue: This should get good in about 5, 4, 3,...:chuckle:
Post by: 2MANY on September 27, 2018, 09:29:23 AM
It's the American way.
Post by: Rainier10 on September 27, 2018, 09:35:22 AM
Get a lawyer, pay the money, and get off.:yeah:
It's the American way.
If the regs say one thing and RCW is different and they admitted that the regs are now incorrect seems like an easier case than proving a spike bull could be a branched antler bull/bullwinkle.
Post by: KFhunter on September 27, 2018, 09:44:57 AM
but then I remember the mentally disabled kid getting a ticket for fishing without a license, never mind he didn't have a hook or bait or whatever..there was zero chance he'd catch anything.
and then I know of a recent story where a guy reported a possible elk poaching, WDFW police couldn't find the carcass so they called the guy so he buzzed down there on his quad to show them, they thanked him for his service then handed him a ticket for riding without a helmet.
I know of other asinine stories of people getting citations for this or that, so I won't bust the OP's balz without knowing the specifics, knowing what *some* WDFW officers will cite for.
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 09:45:11 AM
This is a good thing for people to understand. The regulation booklet is NOT the law. If WDFW wanted to they could be like California and simply copy and paste RCWs and WACs from the legal book into the reg book and say have at it boys! But, they try to make it into plain English.Get a lawyer, pay the money, and get off.:yeah:
It's the American way.
If the regs say one thing and RCW is different and they admitted that the regs are now incorrect seems like an easier case than proving a spike bull could be a branched antler bull/bullwinkle.
You all also need to understand that the legal system in WA for resource crimes changed in 2012. Prior to 2012 you could be handed a misdemeanor citation with a fine and pay it just like a traffic ticket (it was referred to as bail forfeiture). If you paid it you were pleading guilty to the misdemeanor offense. In 2012 the Supreme Court changed the rule and now require those charged with misdemeanors appear before a judge (no more fines on criminal tickets). In 2005 WDFW changed a bunch of regulations from misdemeanors to infractions, the state legislature has said offenses which were misdemeanors in 2005 and have subsequently been downgraded to an infraction STILL count towards license suspension. But "new" infractions created after 2005 do not count.
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 09:50:17 AM
Part of me wants to say: "well, you screwed up 3 times in 10 years what do you expect?"And in each of those circumstances laws were broken weren't they? Now does that mean they deserved a ticket, well in case of the fishing license scenario I will say no.
but then I remember the mentally disabled kid getting a ticket for fishing without a license, never mind he didn't have a hook or bait or whatever..there was zero chance he'd catch anything.
and then I know of a recent story where a guy reported a possible elk poaching, WDFW police couldn't find the carcass so they called the guy so he buzzed down there on his quad to show them, they thanked him for his service then handed him a ticket for riding without a helmet.
I know of other asinine stories of people getting citations for this or that, so I won't bust the OP's balz without knowing the specifics, knowing what *some* WDFW officers will cite for.
Fact is, everybody has their right to a trial for any offense in WA. In fact the kid who got cited for no license had his ticket rightfully dismissed. In the scenario this post was made about the individual has either pled or been found guilty three times. The back of WDFW's tickets (those that are handwritten) are different then any other citations issued by agencies in WA in that it actually states you may lose your hunting/fishing privileges if you accumulate multiple convictions.
As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.
Post by: Sandberm on September 27, 2018, 10:03:36 AM
Part of me wants to say: "well, you screwed up 3 times in 10 years what do you expect?"And in each of those circumstances laws were broken weren't they? Now does that mean they deserved a ticket, well in case of the fishing license scenario I will say no.
but then I remember the mentally disabled kid getting a ticket for fishing without a license, never mind he didn't have a hook or bait or whatever..there was zero chance he'd catch anything.
and then I know of a recent story where a guy reported a possible elk poaching, WDFW police couldn't find the carcass so they called the guy so he buzzed down there on his quad to show them, they thanked him for his service then handed him a ticket for riding without a helmet.
I know of other asinine stories of people getting citations for this or that, so I won't bust the OP's balz without knowing the specifics, knowing what *some* WDFW officers will cite for.
Fact is, everybody has their right to a trial for any offense in WA. In fact the kid who got cited for no license had his ticket rightfully dismissed. In the scenario this post was made about the individual has either pled or been found guilty three times. The back of WDFW's tickets (those that are handwritten) are different then any other citations issued by agencies in WA in that it actually states you may lose your hunting/fishing privileges if you accumulate multiple convictions.
As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.
I really like that you post here, its nice to have someone "in the know" explain stuff to us, but....dont you think its assanine that the guy got a no helmet ticket?
Its kind of like when people accidently drift onto the shoulder of the road, overcorrect and have a wreck. Cops give them a "Wheels off the road" ticket. That one really ramps up the hate for law enforcement.
Since the op brought the subject up....what are your 3 infractions?
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 10:19:15 AM
The OP has yet to say what the 3 violations are (are they infractions or misdemeanors, there is a difference) or send me a message about it.Part of me wants to say: "well, you screwed up 3 times in 10 years what do you expect?"And in each of those circumstances laws were broken weren't they? Now does that mean they deserved a ticket, well in case of the fishing license scenario I will say no.
but then I remember the mentally disabled kid getting a ticket for fishing without a license, never mind he didn't have a hook or bait or whatever..there was zero chance he'd catch anything.
and then I know of a recent story where a guy reported a possible elk poaching, WDFW police couldn't find the carcass so they called the guy so he buzzed down there on his quad to show them, they thanked him for his service then handed him a ticket for riding without a helmet.
I know of other asinine stories of people getting citations for this or that, so I won't bust the OP's balz without knowing the specifics, knowing what *some* WDFW officers will cite for.
Fact is, everybody has their right to a trial for any offense in WA. In fact the kid who got cited for no license had his ticket rightfully dismissed. In the scenario this post was made about the individual has either pled or been found guilty three times. The back of WDFW's tickets (those that are handwritten) are different then any other citations issued by agencies in WA in that it actually states you may lose your hunting/fishing privileges if you accumulate multiple convictions.
As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.
I really like that you post here, its nice to have someone "in the know" explain stuff to us, but....dont you think its assanine that the guy got a no helmet ticket?
Its kind of like when people accidently drift onto the shoulder of the road, overcorrect and have a wreck. Cops give them a "Wheels off the road" ticket. That one really ramps up the hate for law enforcement.
Since the op brought the subject up....what are your 3 infractions?
As far as your wheels off the road statement. State law requires the at-fault driver be cited when there is an LE response to a wreck. That being said do LEOs always follow that law, no. But then they are in a hard place where the LEO isn't following the law as well.
For the no helmet situation we don't know the facts. It's the typical "I heard that....." It could be as simple as KF stated or it may not. Heck I've heard stories of tickets I've written but I've never even written the ticket! But besides the point if the guy was riding an ATV without a helmet the law was broken. Every officer has different discretion, some WSP Troopers start citing speeders at 10 over the limit, others start at 15. But like I said before, the guy could fight it in court. I can tell you in the counties I patrol a no helmet ATV ticket will not be tossed by the judge without some evidence showing that the entire incident was a fabrication, there's just been too many ATV accidents in the area.
Post by: Sandberm on September 27, 2018, 10:43:51 AM
The OP has yet to say what the 3 violations are (are they infractions or misdemeanors, there is a difference) or send me a message about it.Part of me wants to say: "well, you screwed up 3 times in 10 years what do you expect?"And in each of those circumstances laws were broken weren't they? Now does that mean they deserved a ticket, well in case of the fishing license scenario I will say no.
but then I remember the mentally disabled kid getting a ticket for fishing without a license, never mind he didn't have a hook or bait or whatever..there was zero chance he'd catch anything.
and then I know of a recent story where a guy reported a possible elk poaching, WDFW police couldn't find the carcass so they called the guy so he buzzed down there on his quad to show them, they thanked him for his service then handed him a ticket for riding without a helmet.
I know of other asinine stories of people getting citations for this or that, so I won't bust the OP's balz without knowing the specifics, knowing what *some* WDFW officers will cite for.
Fact is, everybody has their right to a trial for any offense in WA. In fact the kid who got cited for no license had his ticket rightfully dismissed. In the scenario this post was made about the individual has either pled or been found guilty three times. The back of WDFW's tickets (those that are handwritten) are different then any other citations issued by agencies in WA in that it actually states you may lose your hunting/fishing privileges if you accumulate multiple convictions.
As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.
I really like that you post here, its nice to have someone "in the know" explain stuff to us, but....dont you think its assanine that the guy got a no helmet ticket?
Its kind of like when people accidently drift onto the shoulder of the road, overcorrect and have a wreck. Cops give them a "Wheels off the road" ticket. That one really ramps up the hate for law enforcement.
Since the op brought the subject up....what are your 3 infractions?
As far as your wheels off the road statement. State law requires the at-fault driver be cited when there is an LE response to a wreck. That being said do LEOs always follow that law, no. But then they are in a hard place where the LEO isn't following the law as well.
For the no helmet situation we don't know the facts. It's the typical "I heard that....." It could be as simple as KF stated or it may not. Heck I've heard stories of tickets I've written but I've never even written the ticket! But besides the point if the guy was riding an ATV without a helmet the law was broken. Every officer has different discretion, some WSP Troopers start citing speeders at 10 over the limit, others start at 15. But like I said before, the guy could fight it in court. I can tell you in the counties I patrol a no helmet ATV ticket will not be tossed by the judge without some evidence showing that the entire incident was a fabrication, there's just been too many ATV accidents in the area.
Thanks for responding. I always respect your posts.
One of these days I'm going to get a ticket for not having a helmet on while I'm riding around the farm on my motorcycle(two wheels). And I will be pissed.
I've been riding around without a helmet for almost 40 years and been just fine. I'm not going fast. I make frequent stops and to have a helmet on would be rediculousy hot and uncomfortable as I deal with irrigation, etc. Though I see the local mega orchards make their employees wear silly half helmets while they ride 4 wheelers around. They are often over the top of a cap and not secured. The employees look thrilled.
Anyways, its beside the point, sorry for the thread hijack. Just curious how bad his infractions were. Misscounted his limit of trout? Barbed hook? Hunting on the Hanford reservation? Fishing with a pitchfork at the hatchery?
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 10:51:51 AM
You do not need to wear a helmet on your own land nor do those involved in agricultural and timber products activities need to wear them.The OP has yet to say what the 3 violations are (are they infractions or misdemeanors, there is a difference) or send me a message about it.Part of me wants to say: "well, you screwed up 3 times in 10 years what do you expect?"And in each of those circumstances laws were broken weren't they? Now does that mean they deserved a ticket, well in case of the fishing license scenario I will say no.
but then I remember the mentally disabled kid getting a ticket for fishing without a license, never mind he didn't have a hook or bait or whatever..there was zero chance he'd catch anything.
and then I know of a recent story where a guy reported a possible elk poaching, WDFW police couldn't find the carcass so they called the guy so he buzzed down there on his quad to show them, they thanked him for his service then handed him a ticket for riding without a helmet.
I know of other asinine stories of people getting citations for this or that, so I won't bust the OP's balz without knowing the specifics, knowing what *some* WDFW officers will cite for.
Fact is, everybody has their right to a trial for any offense in WA. In fact the kid who got cited for no license had his ticket rightfully dismissed. In the scenario this post was made about the individual has either pled or been found guilty three times. The back of WDFW's tickets (those that are handwritten) are different then any other citations issued by agencies in WA in that it actually states you may lose your hunting/fishing privileges if you accumulate multiple convictions.
As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.
I really like that you post here, its nice to have someone "in the know" explain stuff to us, but....dont you think its assanine that the guy got a no helmet ticket?
Its kind of like when people accidently drift onto the shoulder of the road, overcorrect and have a wreck. Cops give them a "Wheels off the road" ticket. That one really ramps up the hate for law enforcement.
Since the op brought the subject up....what are your 3 infractions?
As far as your wheels off the road statement. State law requires the at-fault driver be cited when there is an LE response to a wreck. That being said do LEOs always follow that law, no. But then they are in a hard place where the LEO isn't following the law as well.
For the no helmet situation we don't know the facts. It's the typical "I heard that....." It could be as simple as KF stated or it may not. Heck I've heard stories of tickets I've written but I've never even written the ticket! But besides the point if the guy was riding an ATV without a helmet the law was broken. Every officer has different discretion, some WSP Troopers start citing speeders at 10 over the limit, others start at 15. But like I said before, the guy could fight it in court. I can tell you in the counties I patrol a no helmet ATV ticket will not be tossed by the judge without some evidence showing that the entire incident was a fabrication, there's just been too many ATV accidents in the area.
Thanks for responding. I always respect your posts.
One of these days I'm going to get a ticket for not having a helmet on while I'm riding around the farm on my motorcycle(two wheels). And I will be pissed.
I've been riding around without a helmet for almost 40 years and been just fine. I'm not going fast. I make frequent stops and to have a helmet on would be rediculousy hot and uncomfortable as I deal with irrigation, etc. Though I see the local mega orchards make their employees wear silly half helmets while they ride 4 wheelers around. They are often over the top of a cap and not secured. The employees look thrilled.
Anyways, its beside the point, sorry for the thread hijack. Just curious how bad his infractions were. Misscounted his limit of trout? Barbed hook? Hunting on the Hanford reservation? Fishing with a pitchfork at the hatchery?
(3)(a) Except for an off-road vehicle equipped with seat belts and roll bars or an enclosed passenger compartment, it is a traffic infraction for any person to operate or ride an off-road vehicle on a nonhighway road without wearing upon his or her head a motorcycle helmet fastened securely while in motion. For purposes of this section, "motorcycle helmet" has the same meaning as provided in RCW 46.37.530.
(b) Subsection (3)(a) of this section does not apply to an off-road vehicle operator operating on his or her own land.
(c) Subsection (3)(a) of this section does not apply to an off-road vehicle used in production of agricultural and timber products on and across lands owned, leased, or managed by the owner or operator of the off-road vehicle or the operator's employer.
Post by: KFhunter on September 27, 2018, 11:27:53 AM
Post by: KFhunter on September 27, 2018, 11:35:41 AM
As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.
That's my point, we don't know the circumstances of the OP's tickets. They could be an example of this comment (all agencies have *some* officers with little discretion or common since) or they could turn all our stomachs and none would feel any sympathy for his suspension.
Post by: Rainier10 on September 27, 2018, 12:21:41 PM
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 12:53:09 PM
And if he received three "asinine" tickets he could have fought them. And if that's the truth he also has pretty bad luck. An asinine ticket to one may be completely legit to others. There's lots of things officers could cite for but never do, yet some on here think tickets are written for it everyday.As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.That's my point, we don't know the circumstances of the OP's tickets. They could be an example of this comment (all agencies have *some* officers with little discretion or common since) or they could turn all our stomachs and none would feel any sympathy for his suspension.
Lets hold off on determining if they were good tickets until the OP actually tells us what he was cited for. :twocents:
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 12:57:00 PM
Does that include FS roads Bigtex? Like a rancher checking his cattle on a national forest lease?Ha. That's a good question. In reality it would all depend on whether a judge sees taking care of livestock as "production of agriculture." The state ATV code does not define "agriculture" so it's a gray area (it doesn't matter if other codes define it in a certain way). Some judges would say agriculture is simply plants, others would say it includes grazing. Until the state includes a definition it is a gray area.
I'd say wear the helmet. :twocents:
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 27, 2018, 01:03:32 PM
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 01:06:15 PM
I suppose someone could get three infractions or violations for one stop by LE. I would like to hear from the OP what exactly happened, since he opened up this can of worms. I've never had an infraction or violation, so at face value, this seems a bit odd. Admittedly, I'm a Boy Scout and read the regs meticulously, several times for the seasons and species that apply to my pursuits. :dunno:It doesn't work that way.
If you receive 100 tickets off one stop it counts as 1 conviction in terms of license suspension. It's essentially one incident. If it was simply the amount of tickets you received and were convicted of there would be a lot more suspended anglers/hunters.
Post by: KFhunter on September 27, 2018, 01:46:05 PM
And if he received three "asinine" tickets he could have fought them. And if that's the truth he also has pretty bad luck. An asinine ticket to one may be completely legit to others. There's lots of things officers could cite for but never do, yet some on here think tickets are written for it everyday.As far as "asinine tickets" officers in every agency write tickets for things that many may consider "asinine" it's not limited to one agency.That's my point, we don't know the circumstances of the OP's tickets. They could be an example of this comment (all agencies have *some* officers with little discretion or common since) or they could turn all our stomachs and none would feel any sympathy for his suspension.
Lets hold off on determining if they were good tickets until the OP actually tells us what he was cited for. :twocents:
Agreed
Post by: Rainier10 on September 27, 2018, 01:56:50 PM
If the OP doesn't want to share that I totally get it as well.
At that point I go back to my first post of hire a lawyer and have them get you cleared.
Post by: Oh Mah on September 27, 2018, 02:33:30 PM
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 02:37:37 PM
The helmet part @bigtex does that mean if wearing seat belts.with a roll bar in a side by side no helmet is required?Correct
Post by: 2MANY on September 27, 2018, 02:41:45 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on September 27, 2018, 02:43:28 PM
:tup:The helmet part @bigtex does that mean if wearing seat belts.with a roll bar in a side by side no helmet is required?Correct
Post by: Woodchuck on September 27, 2018, 02:44:37 PM
If you are wearing a helmet should you lick the windows, chew on crayons, or both?For you, both and wear a bib. :tup: :chuckle:
Post by: jadeball1 on September 27, 2018, 05:55:40 PM
Post by: Thehowler on September 27, 2018, 06:04:31 PM
But if you get the wrong judge, he will call you a poacher, and a menice to society.
Had a judge say that to me in court one time, defending myself when I was very young.
Post by: full choke on September 27, 2018, 06:13:31 PM
Today I sent a formal appeal thru my attorney. I will receive a hearing date and get to plead my case. The infractions I received was 1) - fishing for salmon without a punchcard. I’ll had nothing in the boat, was holding a net ready to net my sons fish, and was unable to find my card which was in fact on the boat that I found after they left. 2)- no plug in my shotgun. I had one in the gun , but it had broken(wood piece)and the officer was able to fit 3 shells in. 3) - retaining a Black Sea bass while fishing in area 4 during a halibut opener in water deeper than 20 fathoms. I was in 140 ‘ apparently. Now I admit to these oversites, mistakes, and forgetfulness. However, none of these infractions I feel are worthy of a suspension. None are intentional, none are premeditated offenses, and none should be considered criminal convictions that now label me because I paid my fine without contesting and a hearing. My understanding was a infraction could be paid, and would not go towards a suspension as mentioned on page 86 in blue lettering of the 2018 hunting reg book.
I feel for you. Those sound to be pretty petty offenses.
I was once given a speeding ticket on I-90, right between the two exits to Ellensburg. I was heading eastbound right at 6am, I was in the right lane, being passed by a car in the left lane. State trooper heading westbound, flipped a U-turn through the median, and pulled me over. Said I was doing 58 in a 55 (yeah- this was a couple of years ago...) I argued with him for awhile, he read me the riot act and wrote me the ticket. I took it to court. Took a day off work- drove to Ellensburg, sat in the court house while every single person in front of me was let off of their infractions. Including a kid who ran a stop sign, with an open container, and no insurance. My moment to shine finally came- it was my word against the Trooper- Lieutenant so and so, 28 years service to WSP blah blah blah, I am sure related somehow to the judge. I got stuck with the ticket.
Sometimes ya just get screwed...
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 06:22:41 PM
Today I sent a formal appeal thru my attorney. I will receive a hearing date and get to plead my case. The infractions I received was 1) - fishing for salmon without a punchcard. I’ll had nothing in the boat, was holding a net ready to net my sons fish, and was unable to find my card which was in fact on the boat that I found after they left. 2)- no plug in my shotgun. I had one in the gun , but it had broken(wood piece)and the officer was able to fit 3 shells in. 3) - retaining a Black Sea bass while fishing in area 4 during a halibut opener in water deeper than 20 fathoms. I was in 140 ‘ apparently. Now I admit to these oversites, mistakes, and forgetfulness. However, none of these infractions I feel are worthy of a suspension. None are intentional, none are premeditated offenses, and none should be considered criminal convictions that now label me because I paid my fine without contesting and a hearing. My understanding was a infraction could be paid, and would not go towards a suspension as mentioned on page 86 in blue lettering of the 2018 hunting reg book.
When did these occur?
The black bass offense is a criminal offense not an infraction (unless the officer gave you a huge break and wrote you for an infraction which legally is iffy). No punch card is an infraction. No plug depends on the year, either is criminal or an infraction.
It doesn't matter if it was premeditated. These offenses are strict liability offenses which means the govt doesnt need to prove intent.
You could have easily fought and likely had the no punch card ticket thrown out, but you didn't. Not to sound like an ass but you got cited three times and paid the fine each time which means you pled guilty.
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Post by: KFhunter on September 27, 2018, 06:47:55 PM
Today I sent a formal appeal thru my attorney. I will receive a hearing date and get to plead my case. The infractions I received was 1) - fishing for salmon without a punchcard. I’ll had nothing in the boat, was holding a net ready to net my sons fish, and was unable to find my card which was in fact on the boat that I found after they left. 2)- no plug in my shotgun. I had one in the gun , but it had broken(wood piece)and the officer was able to fit 3 shells in. 3) - retaining a Black Sea bass while fishing in area 4 during a halibut opener in water deeper than 20 fathoms. I was in 140 ‘ apparently. Now I admit to these oversites, mistakes, and forgetfulness. However, none of these infractions I feel are worthy of a suspension. None are intentional, none are premeditated offenses, and none should be considered criminal convictions that now label me because I paid my fine without contesting and a hearing. My understanding was a infraction could be paid, and would not go towards a suspension as mentioned on page 86 in blue lettering of the 2018 hunting reg book.
I can't fault WDFW police for writing those citations (and I don't think you fault them either)
The resulting suspension for those citations you listed seems a bit much and the rules not clear with all the dates and times changing things up, I hope you find success in your appeal or at least lessen the suspension some.
Post by: Bofire on September 27, 2018, 06:56:48 PM
Carl
Post by: KFhunter on September 27, 2018, 06:58:16 PM
Not to Jack the thread but a big Thanks to BigTex for answering these questions as best he can.
Carl
:yeah:
Valuable asset to the forum.
Post by: bearpaw on September 27, 2018, 06:58:31 PM
Post by: Mudman on September 27, 2018, 07:03:43 PM
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 07:05:59 PM
Has WDFW forgotten how to write a warning ticket? It seems to me a warning would have been good enough for a couple of those situations?Or people could follow regs. Here we go again blaming officers for writing tickets and not people for following laws. This individual could have fought all three tickets (in some cases thru the mail) but he didn't.
And fyi, WDFW has a higher percentage of warnings given for violations then they do citations.
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Post by: KFhunter on September 27, 2018, 07:09:01 PM
Has WDFW forgotten how to write a warning ticket? It seems to me a warning would have been good enough for a couple of those situations?
THAT would require a whole other set of circumstances we'll never know the answers too, for we'd have to hear from the WDFW officer/s who wrote those citations and why not a warning.
I do agree on the liberal use of warnings and educating vs penalizing when possible, but at some point the rubber has to meet the road...
Post by: Bob33 on September 27, 2018, 07:19:54 PM
Quote
I have thought the forum as a whole is very supportive of WDFW LE, I think it's the management and predator policies of WDFW that are the most critisized!
Post by: BNAElkhntr on September 27, 2018, 07:20:50 PM
I'm Sorry for the OP situation with that said I've hunted and fished in this state and 3 others and a foreign country for over 40 years and been contacted by various law enforcement agencies and quite frankly I feel not enough. In those years I have never been cited for anything Look the Pamphlets hard to read sometimes but when in doubt Don't do it :twocents:
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 07:39:43 PM
Really?:yeah:QuoteI have thought the forum as a whole is very supportive of WDFW LE, I think it's the management and predator policies of WDFW that are the most critisized!
Immediately came to mind.
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Post by: jackelope on September 27, 2018, 07:40:17 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on September 27, 2018, 07:54:47 PM
I've seen plenty given out for shooting over the road though.
@bigtex am i wrong or would the op have been getting off lucky with the shotgun violation?Since it is federal law.
Post by: bigtex on September 27, 2018, 07:57:39 PM
:yeah: I see W.D.F.W LEO'S giving warnings every year at camp for vehicles to far off the road at camp,never seen them or heard that they gave a ticket to someone but always hear how someone was harassed by a LEO for doing it.Ask did you get a ticket? Answer no.My reply quit complaining then.If he was migratory bird hunting yes it could've gone federal.
I've seen plenty given out for shooting over the road though.
@bigtex am i wrong or would the op have been getting off lucky with the shotgun violation?Since it is federal law.
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Post by: Jpmiller on September 28, 2018, 06:50:36 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on September 28, 2018, 07:56:59 AM
Before we flame law enforcement for writing a ticket for breaking the law and not giving the guy a break it we should think about what the rest of the story could be. Maybe there isn't a "rest of the story" but I don't think we should assume either way and flame the OP or enforcement.
Post by: dfresh96 on September 28, 2018, 08:10:48 AM
Post by: jstone on September 28, 2018, 08:15:07 AM
Post by: Sneaky on September 28, 2018, 08:29:03 AM
Washington State’s Fish and Wildlife
Enforcement Code (Revised Code of
Washington Chapter 77 15) requires the
mandatory suspension of a person’s hunting
privileges if a person is convicted of one of the
following violations:
• Assaulting a Fish and Wildlife
Enforcement Officer or an employee or
agent of the Department performing
official duties
• Unlawful hunting of big game
• First degree waste of fish and wildlife
• Harvesting endangered fish or wildlife
• Hunting big game with an artificial light or
spotlight
• Violating the prohibition on hunting bear
with bait or the limitations on using dogs to
hunt bear, cougar, bobcat, or lynx
• Unlawfully purchasing or using a license
• Committing a crime that involves a willful
or wanton disregard for conservation of
wildlife
• Shooting another person or domestic
livestock while hunting
In addition, repeat offenders will receive a
mandatory two-year suspension of all fishing
and hunting privileges A repeat offender
is any person with two strikes within ten
years for big game hunting violations and
three strikes within ten years for all other
recreational hunting and fishing violations
The law treats an uncontested notice of
infraction, or a guilty plea as a conviction that
will be counted Bail forfeiture (payment of
a fine on a citation) will not count towards a
suspension
BF and uncontested NOI are not the same thing.
Post by: Mudman on September 28, 2018, 09:16:16 AM
Post by: dfresh96 on September 28, 2018, 09:27:09 AM
He was a local to the area we once had property. The sherriff who ticketed him came into our camp thinking we were riding in area fortunately we didnt have a atv with us.
He blamed us for turning him in but some new folks moved in area as well & got tired of him riding on private unposted property.
He should get his license suspended!!!!!
Post by: Rainier10 on September 28, 2018, 09:39:12 AM
We had a few differing of opinion conversations on the subject.Not sure if @jstone was saying your guy should get his license suspended @dfresh96 or if he was saying the OP should get his license suspended. :dunno:
He was a local to the area we once had property. The sherriff who ticketed him came into our camp thinking we were riding in area fortunately we didnt have a atv with us.
He blamed us for turning him in but some new folks moved in area as well & got tired of him riding on private unposted property.He should get his license suspended!!!!!
Post by: dfresh96 on September 28, 2018, 09:54:19 AM
I probably jumped the gun...We had a few differing of opinion conversations on the subject.Not sure if @jstone was saying your guy should get his license suspended @dfresh96 or if he was saying the OP should get his license suspended. :dunno:
He was a local to the area we once had property. The sherriff who ticketed him came into our camp thinking we were riding in area fortunately we didnt have a atv with us.
He blamed us for turning him in but some new folks moved in area as well & got tired of him riding on private unposted property.He should get his license suspended!!!!!
Its good to know that wdfw reviews infractions & such often, & can hold repeat offenders responsible weather its minor or major.
Post by: bigtex on September 28, 2018, 09:58:34 AM
An "infraction" is actually a classification of a violation. Similar to how a misdemeanor or a felony is a classification of a violation.
Example: If you are fishing without a license you are actually committing a misdemeanor not an infraction.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: Sandberm on September 28, 2018, 10:17:54 AM
I ride my motorcycle around the farm and ON the county roads around the farm with no helmet. The roads are NOT heavily traveled, it isnt like I'm riding down the freeway or in downtown. I'm making a living here, paying taxes, acting responsibly, being a good neighbor. I've been doing this for 35+ years and if I get a chicken bleep ticket for not wearing a helmet I will take it to court.
I feel a lot of "gotcha" in the amount of paperwork I have to carry in order to hunt/fish/explore outdoors. A discovery pass, which is invariably always in the "other rig" when I show up at the trailhead etc. >:( Northwest forest pass(which is also in the other rig/backpack), Fishing and hunting license with the right tag/punchcard, duck stamp, ..."Of crap, why did I grab the box of shotgun shells with lead?"
I can not seem to remember to renew my boat registration for some reason. "Oh yeah, thats right I took the life lackets out the other day when I was cleaning the truck/boat" as i sit at the launch after driving an hour to get to the lake/river with no life jackets. :(
Yea, yea I know..."Sandberm you sound like you are forgetful more then anything else". Too much crap going on in my brain to pay attention to all the details I guess. Rant over, carryon. :sry:
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 28, 2018, 10:35:15 AM
Laws should be common sense written down. Over complexity of laws sets up a "gotcha" feeling and resentment towards the system.
I ride my motorcycle around the farm and ON the county roads around the farm with no helmet. The roads are NOT heavily traveled, it isnt like I'm riding down the freeway or in downtown. I'm making a living here, paying taxes, acting responsibly, being a good neighbor. I've been doing this for 35+ years and if I get a chicken bleep ticket for not wearing a helmet I will take it to court.
I feel a lot of "gotcha" in the amount of paperwork I have to carry in order to hunt/fish/explore outdoors. A discovery pass, which is invariably always in the "other rig" when I show up at the trailhead etc. >:( Northwest forest pass(which is also in the other rig/backpack), Fishing and hunting license with the right tag/punchcard, duck stamp, ..."Of crap, why did I grab the box of shotgun shells with lead?"
I can not seem to remember to renew my boat registration for some reason. "Oh yeah, thats right I took the life lackets out the other day when I was cleaning the truck/boat" as i sit at the launch after driving an hour to get to the lake/river with no life jackets. :(
Yea, yea I know..."Sandberm you sound like you are forgetful more then anything else". Too much crap going on in my brain to pay attention to all the details I guess. Rant over, carryon. :sry:
It's interesting that some people never violate the laws and others do and then some blame LE for the ticket. Are the F&G laws complicated? Yes. Can you figure them out if you're literate and take the time to do so? Yes. Will the WDFW answer questions over the phone or in person about ambiguous or confusing regs and wording? Yes. Can the Game officers issue a warning? On some things, yes. Is it their fault when they give you a ticket instead of a warning? No. I'm sorry for the OP's experience and hope his license privileges are returned to him by going to court.
Post by: Bob33 on September 28, 2018, 11:19:06 AM
LEOs are charged with enforcing laws they didn’t have any part of creating. It’s their duty and obligation to enforce them, with some discretion allowed in certain instances. If they don’t enforce the laws that were written by someone else, even if they don’t agree with them, they are derelict in their duties.
I have no doubt some LEOs are heavy handed. I can honestly say that I don’t recall ever meeting one in a span of many decades of hunting and fishing in Washington, other states, and other countries. Maybe I’m lucky; I don’t know.
When the number of some game animals killed illegally is estimated to be the same as those killed legally, it’s understandable that some LEO encounters may appear to be harsh but that’s doesn’t mean they weren’t justified.
Post by: Sandberm on September 28, 2018, 11:41:31 AM
I think the game wardens are spread too thin and wish the state would employ more of them. I think it would help deter people from keeping more then their legal limit of fish or game and I also think it might help deter break ins at trailheads etc..
Off topic, funny or just kind of weird story. A couple winters ago when it snowed a whole bunch I made the stupid decision the morning after a heavy snowfall to check on the roads and go over to my elderly parents place and the farm. I had no business being on the the road . I made it over to the farm and decided to blitz up the driveway with as much speed as possible to clear the snowdrifts :dunno: 30 feet in i get stuck. I go to digging out and not more then a minute later a game warden in a 4wd f150 pulls up. I'VE NEVER SEEN A GAME WARDEN IN ALL MY LIFE on our county road. We asses I'm screwed and then he offers up to pull me out with a tow rope he had behind the seat. Job done, I thank the friendly young man and proceed to head home.
I wish I would have gotten his name so I could write a thankyou note to WDFW and to let them know what a decent guy I thought he was.
Post by: jackelope on September 28, 2018, 12:24:25 PM
Perhaps there is an exception, but LEOs don’t write and enact laws. No LEO decided lead shot should be illegal for waterfowl. No LEO decided a Discover Pass is required to access DNR land. LEOs didn’t make helmet laws.
LEOs are charged with enforcing laws they didn’t have any part of creating. It’s their duty and obligation to enforce them, with some discretion allowed in certain instances. If they don’t enforce the laws that were written by someone else, even if they don’t agree with them, they are derelict in their duties.
I have no doubt some LEOs are heavy handed. I can honestly say that I don’t recall ever meeting one in a span of many decades of hunting and fishing in Washington, other states, and other countries. Maybe I’m lucky; I don’t know.
When the number of some game animals killed illegally is estimated to be the same as those killed legally, it’s understandable that some LEO encounters may appear to be harsh but that’s doesn’t mean they weren’t justified.
The only place I've ever been approached by any WDFW LEO was out on the sound in a boat, and it was because we weren't paying attention to the time fishing the Bubble. It closed at noon and it was after noon. We were clearly not paying attention, they gave us a warning and we pulled our gear.
Post by: csaaphill on October 02, 2018, 02:02:16 AM
Today I sent a formal appeal thru my attorney. I will receive a hearing date and get to plead my case. The infractions I received was 1) - fishing for salmon without a punchcard. I’ll had nothing in the boat, was holding a net ready to net my sons fish, and was unable to find my card which was in fact on the boat that I found after they left. 2)- no plug in my shotgun. I had one in the gun , but it had broken(wood piece)and the officer was able to fit 3 shells in. 3) - retaining a Black Sea bass while fishing in area 4 during a halibut opener in water deeper than 20 fathoms. I was in 140 ‘ apparently. Now I admit to these oversites, mistakes, and forgetfulness. However, none of these infractions I feel are worthy of a suspension. None are intentional, none are premeditated offenses, and none should be considered criminal convictions that now label me because I paid my fine without contesting and a hearing. My understanding was a infraction could be paid, and would not go towards a suspension as mentioned on page 86 in blue lettering of the 2018 hunting reg book.why didn't you fight them to begin with as BIGTEX so plainly makes a point on?
1. you found it and weren't actually fishing shouldn't have gave you a ticket.
2. you still had the plug, unless you knew then...? But those two I think you should of never been cited for.
3. Maybe But have no clue on those rules so....?
Wish you luck unlike others on here. :tup:
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 02, 2018, 06:54:14 AM
Today I sent a formal appeal thru my attorney. I will receive a hearing date and get to plead my case. The infractions I received was 1) - fishing for salmon without a punchcard. I’ll had nothing in the boat, was holding a net ready to net my sons fish, and was unable to find my card which was in fact on the boat that I found after they left. 2)- no plug in my shotgun. I had one in the gun , but it had broken(wood piece)and the officer was able to fit 3 shells in. 3) - retaining a Black Sea bass while fishing in area 4 during a halibut opener in water deeper than 20 fathoms. I was in 140 ‘ apparently. Now I admit to these oversites, mistakes, and forgetfulness. However, none of these infractions I feel are worthy of a suspension. None are intentional, none are premeditated offenses, and none should be considered criminal convictions that now label me because I paid my fine without contesting and a hearing. My understanding was a infraction could be paid, and would not go towards a suspension as mentioned on page 86 in blue lettering of the 2018 hunting reg book.why didn't you fight them to begin with as BIGTEX so plainly makes a point on?
1. you found it and weren't actually fishing shouldn't have gave you a ticket.
2. you still had the plug, unless you knew then...? But those two I think you should of never been cited for.
3. Maybe But have no clue on those rules so....?
Wish you luck unlike others on here. :tup:
Quite a few of us have wished him good luck in getting the suspension reversed.
Post by: floatinghat on October 02, 2018, 07:37:53 AM
BT, thanks for your insight, I have never received a citation for anything other than traffic related. However, reading this thread I now would contest it.
Can you answer this if the OP was only netting a fish and did not have a line in how could he have been cited? I am guessing he was fishing but that wasn't mentioned. I ask because sometimes I will take our son who has special needs out and he will net my fish. 2 in the boat 1 fishing and 1 netting. However, I always have extra rods/reels/tackle in the boat but there would only have been 1 line in the water at any time.
My gamecop stories are pretty positive. back when the S rivers were open for the C&R season I lived in Oregon. I was had just released and nice Steelhead on the fly and a GC came down and asked me how things were going. I told her great, I had just released a nice fish.... She checked me and smiled, then asked me about the family plunking below me in the tail out. I said I see them down there but hadn't really see them move. It ended up it was a dad with two girls fishing eggs and barbed hooks. She gave the dad a stern warning and told them to get legal or go. I was shocked she didn't write them up, but this was 20years ago.
Overall the guys in the field do a great job.
Post by: csaaphill on October 02, 2018, 08:55:57 PM
yeah I get that. :sry: :tup:Today I sent a formal appeal thru my attorney. I will receive a hearing date and get to plead my case. The infractions I received was 1) - fishing for salmon without a punchcard. I’ll had nothing in the boat, was holding a net ready to net my sons fish, and was unable to find my card which was in fact on the boat that I found after they left. 2)- no plug in my shotgun. I had one in the gun , but it had broken(wood piece)and the officer was able to fit 3 shells in. 3) - retaining a Black Sea bass while fishing in area 4 during a halibut opener in water deeper than 20 fathoms. I was in 140 ‘ apparently. Now I admit to these oversites, mistakes, and forgetfulness. However, none of these infractions I feel are worthy of a suspension. None are intentional, none are premeditated offenses, and none should be considered criminal convictions that now label me because I paid my fine without contesting and a hearing. My understanding was a infraction could be paid, and would not go towards a suspension as mentioned on page 86 in blue lettering of the 2018 hunting reg book.why didn't you fight them to begin with as BIGTEX so plainly makes a point on?
1. you found it and weren't actually fishing shouldn't have gave you a ticket.
2. you still had the plug, unless you knew then...? But those two I think you should of never been cited for.
3. Maybe But have no clue on those rules so....?
Wish you luck unlike others on here. :tup:
Quite a few of us have wished him good luck in getting the suspension reversed.