Post by: Special T on October 23, 2018, 01:12:12 PM
As usual Rinella writes an impressive article. Im a big advocate for those whom emphasis voice for those that pay the bills and have skin in the game.
Perhaps i dont run in these circles so im unaware, but i dont see the hate for consumptive users that he references in his article out side of them reducing sportsmen opportunities. Im unbothered by Mountain bikers, hikers, bird watchers, campers, mountaineers and rock climbers. I would would bet that many of us have or do participate in these activities as well. Aside from verbal pejoratives like leave lickers and bunny huggers when they attack our opportunities, what have sportsmen groups done to reduce non consumptive users opportunity? I cannot think of any...
Your thoughts?
Post by: cbond3318 on October 23, 2018, 01:42:54 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 23, 2018, 01:48:28 PM
Post by: chiwawadan on October 23, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
I have a great deal of respect for Rinella, even though he borders on the sanctimonious from time to time. He's a good ambassador for our hunting heritage. I'll also not soon forget the marketing package he sent for the auction after Aaron died. He didn't even hesitate. He's a good human. :tup:I enjoy listening to his podcast, watching his show, and I own both his hunting guidebooks. Having said that, I think it's safe to say he jumps that sanctimonious border fairly regularly.
Interesting article.
Post by: Special T on October 23, 2018, 05:00:48 PM
I think that is a great article written by a man that understands the need for bringing together all users for the betterment of the land and wildlife we ALL love, regardless of political party, opinions on Wolves, Grizzlies, methods of take , support of hunting or the lack thereof, the differences go on and on. I also think if the take away is a “what have we done to them” attitude, the point has been missed, sharply. :twocents:
Let me make some clarifying points. First off this letter isnt really written for hunters, its written for hikers. Outside isnt a hunting magazine. Secondly I think it was a great article and it reinforces what a great ambassador he is. Thirdly It wasnt my take away it was an honest question. Im only aware of nonconsumptive users making waves for hunters. If you know of the reverse i actually wanted to know.
Post by: Jpmiller on October 23, 2018, 05:49:05 PM
Other than this summer when I had a gal and her husband scream "I can see you" while glassing about 50 yards up off a trail in goat rocks I've never had a bad experience with other user groups in the woods and I'm still not certain what there motives were and if it had anything to do with my rifle and pack I do wish they'd vote their passions and support it financially though.
Post by: cbond3318 on October 23, 2018, 06:00:06 PM
I think that is a great article written by a man that understands the need for bringing together all users for the betterment of the land and wildlife we ALL love, regardless of political party, opinions on Wolves, Grizzlies, methods of take , support of hunting or the lack thereof, the differences go on and on. I also think if the take away is a “what have we done to them” attitude, the point has been missed, sharply. :twocents:
Let me make some clarifying points. First off this letter isnt really written for hunters, its written for hikers. Outside isnt a hunting magazine. Secondly I think it was a great article and it reinforces what a great ambassador he is. Thirdly It wasnt my take away it was an honest question. Im only aware of nonconsumptive users making waves for hunters. If you know of the reverse i actually wanted to know.
I apologize Special T for interpreting that as your take away. The only things that come to mind are small, localized pushes for limiting access to ATV’s or OHV’s, shutting down access to hikers during an active hunting season and support for a “backpack tax”. It’s a blurry line though because as you stated, the typical sportsman often cross recreates whereas not every hiker hunts. I don’t think any example of just Sportsmen making waves for Non consumptive users is common because we as strictly sportsmen don’t have the numbers. To the point of the article, it is paramount we continue to be conscious of our image, conduct and willingness to work with all groups because frankly, we need them. The few articles I’ve gleaned from Outside have given me the impression they have a level headed position on the line between Sportsmen and non consumptive users.
Post by: Alchase on October 23, 2018, 06:14:15 PM
We were gearing up at Hearts Pass when the showed up. They had to ride in the back of a pickup, in the rain all the way.
The one lady who was bad mouthing hunters in the store, says
“we can’t seem to get away from all these orange wearing a$$holes”!
I walked over to her rifle on my shoulder handgun on my belt, and just smiled at her and said
“my son asked me why we don’t offer you a ride to Hearts Pass since that is where we were headed. I was going to offer all of you a free ride, you would have been warm and dry. Then We heard your comments about hunters, my son asked why do they hate us dad? I told him I don’t think they hate us, they are just misinformed. You might want to think about that over the next few miles on the trail, in your wet clothes.”
They got real quiet as they geared up to hit the trail.
Post by: shallowforks on October 23, 2018, 06:40:44 PM
My son and I stopped at the Mazama store a few years back. There were four hikers doing the PCT waiting for their ride back up Hearts Pass. We came in bought some munchies and heard two of them bad mouthing hunters, clearly pointing their conversations towards us. In their conversation with the guy behind the counter they said they were paying $90 each to be given a ride up to the PCT at Hearts Pass. I smiled and left.
We were gearing up at Hearts Pass when the showed up. They had to ride in the back of a pickup, in the rain all the way.
The one lady who was bad mouthing hunters in the store, says
“we can’t seem to get away from all these orange wearing a$$holes”!
I walked over to her rifle on my shoulder handgun on my belt, and just smiled at her and said
“my son asked me why we don’t offer you a ride to Hearts Pass since that is where we were headed. I was going to offer all of you a free ride, you would have been warm and dry. Then We heard your comments about hunters, my son asked why do they hate us dad? I told him I don’t think they hate us, they are just misinformed. You might want to think about that over the next few miles on the trail, in your wet clothes.”
They got real quiet as they geared up to hit the trail.
I wouldn’t have wanted to give them a ride either. I wonder though... If we offered our kindness in the face of their obvious contempt could we change their hearts and minds about us even more? I think you had a great idea to give them a free ride.
Post by: Jpmiller on October 23, 2018, 07:14:22 PM
Post by: Special T on October 23, 2018, 07:54:18 PM
I dont remeber the details but thank you for jogging my memory on the back pack tax. Essentially an excise tax on outdoor gear so they have financial skin in the game just like sportsmen. Not all that different than state parks passes or now the discover pass. Those taxes arnt really pushed by sportsmen as much as the state but I understand the intent. Additionally the DP funds are for state parks not really wild places like more remote DNR spots.I think that is a great article written by a man that understands the need for bringing together all users for the betterment of the land and wildlife we ALL love, regardless of political party, opinions on Wolves, Grizzlies, methods of take , support of hunting or the lack thereof, the differences go on and on. I also think if the take away is a “what have we done to them” attitude, the point has been missed, sharply. :twocents:
Let me make some clarifying points. First off this letter isnt really written for hunters, its written for hikers. Outside isnt a hunting magazine. Secondly I think it was a great article and it reinforces what a great ambassador he is. Thirdly It wasnt my take away it was an honest question. Im only aware of nonconsumptive users making waves for hunters. If you know of the reverse i actually wanted to know.
I apologize Special T for interpreting that as your take away. The only things that come to mind are small, localized pushes for limiting access to ATV’s or OHV’s, shutting down access to hikers during an active hunting season and support for a “backpack tax”. It’s a blurry line though because as you stated, the typical sportsman often cross recreates whereas not every hiker hunts. I don’t think any example of just Sportsmen making waves for Non consumptive users is common because we as strictly sportsmen don’t have the numbers. To the point of the article, it is paramount we continue to be conscious of our image, conduct and willingness to work with all groups because frankly, we need them. The few articles I’ve gleaned from Outside have given me the impression they have a level headed position on the line between Sportsmen and non consumptive users.
Are there areas of agreement between the consumptive and non? Absolutely. I dislike being looked down upon however when it is our Pitman robers/dingle Johnson dollars at work that benefits all... which is why Rhinella is a better ambassador than I am.
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Post by: SilkOnTheDrySide on October 24, 2018, 06:27:08 AM
And we turned that interaction into a positive by the time it was done.
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Post by: trophyhunt on October 24, 2018, 06:33:59 AM
I hunt nearly exclusively in the wilderness...killed my bear last year proned out in the PCT, met hundreds of hikers over the last 5 years and I’ve had ONE bad interaction with a hiker.I was going to say, most of my interactions have been positive.
And we turned that interaction into a positive by the time it was done.
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Post by: baker5150 on October 24, 2018, 07:07:40 AM
Mt Biker's are another story. My area is extremely popular for Bikers, they come from all over the country to ride here, and some think they own the mountain and it's access points. Unaware that most of the trails are illegally built, and most access points are privately owned. regardless, they like to inform me, regularly, that they built the trails, and I shouldn't be using them for anything but what they were built for.
I don't think it's an "anti hunter issue" as much as it is an "anti-everything except what we do" issue.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on October 24, 2018, 09:01:51 AM
My son and I stopped at the Mazama store a few years back. There were four hikers doing the PCT waiting for their ride back up Hearts Pass. We came in bought some munchies and heard two of them bad mouthing hunters, clearly pointing their conversations towards us. In their conversation with the guy behind the counter they said they were paying $90 each to be given a ride up to the PCT at Hearts Pass. I smiled and left.
We were gearing up at Hearts Pass when the showed up. They had to ride in the back of a pickup, in the rain all the way.
The one lady who was bad mouthing hunters in the store, says
“we can’t seem to get away from all these orange wearing a$$holes”!
I walked over to her rifle on my shoulder handgun on my belt, and just smiled at her and said
“my son asked me why we don’t offer you a ride to Hearts Pass since that is where we were headed. I was going to offer all of you a free ride, you would have been warm and dry. Then We heard your comments about hunters, my son asked why do they hate us dad? I told him I don’t think they hate us, they are just misinformed. You might want to think about that over the next few miles on the trail, in your wet clothes.”
They got real quiet as they geared up to hit the trail.
But at the same time you shouldn't let a few people color your opinion of an entire group. Should the guy in Capitol Forest represent hunters?
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,232505.0.html
Post by: Cab on October 24, 2018, 10:04:00 AM
Good: Mom with 2 kids runs into me walking back to my truck after turkey hunting. I was friendly and said Hi, she and her kids were extremely kind, even told me about where they saw birds.
Bad: Opening morning hunting deer 2 mountain bikers go past my dad on a trail and say loudly " UGH F'ing hunters are the worst, what are they even doing here" mind you this area is covered in signs telling you when hunting season is and to wear orange. I guess those 2 bikers didn't know how to read.
Good: Had a family walk in to an area I was bow hunting, I wave to them to be friendly and not freak them out. The little girl sees me and says to her dad " That guys trying to kill a deer thats bad, right dad?" Dad looks at his young daughter and says " Hell no it's not! hope he gets a big one!" :chuckle:
Bad: walking out after turkey hunting and this group that I guess fills the bird feeders in the area was coming the other way. I talk to them a bit and they just seemed uncomfortable so I kept it short. I hear the head guy say to everyone " yea those turkey hunters don't wear orange and they shoot each other all the time. It's dangerous being out here around them."
I've had very few run in's with non-hunters here on trail. I find I had a lot more negative experience hunting back east in small chunks of public land just outside of the suburbs. A LOT of female dog walkers were unfriendly but I was always nice, waved and said Hi. I realized very early on when hunting that I am the face of the sport to some of the people I am going to meet in the woods. If I'm friendly, treat them with respect and engage them in this way that hopefully they come away with a positive view of hunters.
You can't change every persons mind so I don't try to. I work with a lot of non-hunters (I'm only hunter they know or have actually met in person sometimes) and I do everything I can to always show the positive. None of them want to see grip and grins but fully support hunting now after talking/knowing me.
Post by: cbond3318 on October 24, 2018, 10:19:36 AM
The most flak I've caught is from OHV users on the mountain. Not sure why.
Post by: TRD1911 on October 24, 2018, 10:29:54 AM
Post by: Alchase on October 24, 2018, 10:53:54 AM
My son and I stopped at the Mazama store a few years back. There were four hikers doing the PCT waiting for their ride back up Hearts Pass. We came in bought some munchies and heard two of them bad mouthing hunters, clearly pointing their conversations towards us. In their conversation with the guy behind the counter they said they were paying $90 each to be given a ride up to the PCT at Hearts Pass. I smiled and left.
We were gearing up at Hearts Pass when the showed up. They had to ride in the back of a pickup, in the rain all the way.
The one lady who was bad mouthing hunters in the store, says
“we can’t seem to get away from all these orange wearing a$$holes”!
I walked over to her rifle on my shoulder handgun on my belt, and just smiled at her and said
“my son asked me why we don’t offer you a ride to Hearts Pass since that is where we were headed. I was going to offer all of you a free ride, you would have been warm and dry. Then We heard your comments about hunters, my son asked why do they hate us dad? I told him I don’t think they hate us, they are just misinformed. You might want to think about that over the next few miles on the trail, in your wet clothes.”
They got real quiet as they geared up to hit the trail.
But at the same time you shouldn't let a few people color your opinion of an entire group. Should the guy in Capitol Forest represent hunters?
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,232505.0.html
That was the only interaction I can remember with hikers that was negative. It was apperent they wanted nothing to do with hunters, or I would have offered.
Most are just a wave and a little small talk. Some are good conversations about their hike, or where I am headed.
Post by: jstone on October 24, 2018, 11:22:00 AM
Post by: konradcountry on October 27, 2018, 07:11:29 PM
If there is a problem with anyone it is urban walkers that assume nearby public land isn't open for hunting.
Post by: fireweed on October 29, 2018, 04:28:10 PM
Rescued four cold, wet PCT hikers from a September blizzard. They were VERY happy to see hunters and bought dinner for us after we gave them a ride to town. I've worked at the National Park service with some very true eco-believers and these people were very curious and/or supportive of hunting--after all its organically grown, non-GMO, free range, and low emissions protein.
Post by: saylean on November 14, 2018, 11:55:04 AM
Hunters and hikers have a ton in common, much more than either side likes to admit many times. It is great to see Steve speak out on this, as we all should. We all need to come together and fight to keep our public lands just that and to realize that "public" means there are a lot of different interests involved.
I've enjoyed bear sausage with other hikers when I have been out, showcased them mountain goats and bear, animals they would have never seen unless I had pointed them out. Remember guys and gals, WE are ambassadors to our sport, so lets act like it every chance we get.
Post by: 7mmfan on November 14, 2018, 12:18:30 PM
I did a class at cabelas this past summer called "Hikers to Hunters" for those hikers who were interested in getting into hunting. While it wasn't a huge class (under 20) it was still great to have people show up, with an open mind, and with the willingness to learn. Hopefully, those individuals left with a positive outcome and maybe voiced those opinions to others in their "hiker" circle.
Hunters and hikers have a ton in common, much more than either side likes to admit many times. It is great to see Steve speak out on this, as we all should. We all need to come together and fight to keep our public lands just that and to realize that "public" means there are a lot of different interests involved.
I've enjoyed bear sausage with other hikers when I have been out, showcased them mountain goats and bear, animals they would have never seen unless I had pointed them out. Remember guys and gals, WE are ambassadors to our sport, so lets act like it every chance we get.
:tup:
Post by: Special T on November 14, 2018, 01:20:39 PM
https://lnt.org/learn/7-principles
I believe it is this philosophical difference that separates sportsmen from hikers. LNT ethos is closely linked to catch and release fly fishing. The evidence of this link is provided by the attempts of Hiking and climbing outfits like REI, Patagonia and others to expand into that segment with limited success. I believe this expansion has been handicapped because it runs against the basic ethos. Many fishermen balk at Purist Catch and relief types, and yet the minimal intrusion runs a fowl of the core ethos of LNT hence the struggle.
The irony is that all the hunters that that Ive encountered hiking in follow the LNT philosophy in general terms but not with the Religious fervor that some hiking groups promote.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 14, 2018, 02:31:27 PM