Post by: sRaud on October 25, 2018, 06:28:01 PM
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
Post by: The Marquis on October 26, 2018, 09:22:45 AM
It's worth noting that the state has easements through Weyerhaueser land, but the word in the woods is that a call to DNR won't get much response on the matter.
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on October 26, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
Post by: Stein on October 26, 2018, 02:04:25 PM
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Post by: 7mmfan on October 26, 2018, 02:05:25 PM
Post by: GodLovesUgly on October 26, 2018, 02:17:11 PM
Look at other states. Texas for instance...
Post by: chiwawadan on October 26, 2018, 02:53:26 PM
We're lucky PUBLIC land is even a thing.It's mostly private land, but the hunting is absurdly good in Texas... In fact, your mention of TX made me curious about the numbers.
Look at other states. Texas for instance...
Estimates (with 95% confidence from the surveyors) were that 935,629 deer (whitetail and mule combined) were harvested last year in Texas. 28,935 deer were harvested in WA (if I did the math right based on 2017 harvest reports). WA is 26.5846% the size of TX. If WA had the same rate of harvest per square mile of land as TX, there would have been 248,733 deer harvested last year.
Or to put it statistically, there were 3.4833 deer kills per square mile in TX and 0.405 kills per square mile in WA. The success rate is 60.57% for whitetails and 35.83% for Mule Deer in TX.
But, there is 1% of the state huntable in TX and 31.7% of the state huntable in WA. Huntable here being defined as land open to the public for hunting.
I'm not really making a point here, I just thought the statistics were interesting. And also to clarify how good the hunting is down there. Granted, a lot of the TX deer have a sizeable corn feeder diet.
As for the OP's question, I think The Marquis has given some good advice here.
Post by: SpurInSpokane on October 26, 2018, 04:23:14 PM
I just listened to a meateater podcast talking about this exact thing. Pretty sure the number they threw out was 9,000,000 acres nationwide of landlocked public land.
I could be wrong about this, but wasn't that in reference just to the western states they were studying? I'd actually have to go back and listen to be sure, I guess. It could have been nation-wide...
Post by: fishnfur on October 26, 2018, 05:15:03 PM
We're lucky PUBLIC land is even a thing.It's mostly private land, but the hunting is absurdly good in Texas... In fact, your mention of TX made me curious about the numbers.
Look at other states. Texas for instance...
Estimates (with 95% confidence from the surveyors) were that 935,629 deer (whitetail and mule combined) were harvested last year in Texas. 28,935 deer were harvested in WA (if I did the math right based on 2017 harvest reports). WA is 26.5846% the size of TX. If WA had the same rate of harvest per square mile of land as TX, there would have been 248,733 deer harvested last year.
Or to put it statistically, there were 3.4833 deer kills per square mile in TX and 0.405 kills per square mile in WA. The success rate is 60.57% for whitetails and 35.83% for Mule Deer in TX.
But, there is 1% of the state huntable in TX and 31.7% of the state huntable in WA. Huntable here being defined as land open to the public for hunting.
I'm not really making a point here, I just thought the statistics were interesting. And also to clarify how good the hunting is down there. Granted, a lot of the TX deer have a sizeable corn feeder diet.
As for the OP's question, I think The Marquis has given some good advice here.
- There's a lot less cougars and big predators in TX too.
- Also, forests are great hiding spots for deer, but the food is out where the sun shines.
- Winter survival also takes a huge toll in more northern states. Not so much so in the Lone Star.
- I'd love to go hunt some WT in Texas though. Talk about longhorns!
Post by: Camo on October 26, 2018, 06:51:29 PM
I just listened to a meateater podcast talking about this exact thing. Pretty sure the number they threw out was 9,000,000 acres nationwide of landlocked public land.
I could be wrong about this, but wasn't that in reference just to the western states they were studying? I'd actually have to go back and listen to be sure, I guess. It could have been nation-wide...
I think it was 13 western states?
Post by: Bob33 on October 26, 2018, 07:16:14 PM
When landowners are paid tens of thousands of dollars to raise and protect game behind high fences, harvest rates will definitely be higher.
Post by: chiwawadan on October 26, 2018, 09:10:02 PM
I wouldn't say hunting is better in Texas. Shooting, yes.They call it picking not hunting in Central Texas. The deer hear the sound of that corn feeder to off and in they run.
When landowners are paid tens of thousands of dollars to raise and protect game behind high fences, harvest rates will definitely be higher.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on October 26, 2018, 09:25:25 PM
Post by: M_ray on October 27, 2018, 11:59:59 AM
I wouldn’t assume, there are millions of acres of public land with no legal access outside of a helicopter.
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Well there is, anyone that has spent anytime at all hunting the western states has run across landlocked federal, state and Blm lands constantly. Some of which are so close to the road you could spit on it but you can’t step on the 3ft strip of private to get on it. So yes there are millions of landlocked state and federal lands with no way on to them outside of a helicopter. There used to be a guy with a show on TV about helicoptering into these locked public lands but I don’t remember the name of it.
Post by: huntnfmly on October 27, 2018, 01:12:40 PM
His name is Randy Newberg there is also a big debate on corner crossing to access these statelands that are in the millions of acresI wouldn’t assume, there are millions of acres of public land with no legal access outside of a helicopter.
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Well there is, anyone that has spent anytime at all hunting the western states has run across landlocked federal, state and Blm lands constantly. Some of which are so close to the road you could spit on it but you can’t step on the 3ft strip of private to get on it. So yes there are millions of landlocked state and federal lands with no way on to them outside of a helicopter. There used to be a guy with a show on TV about helicoptering into these locked public lands but I don’t remember the name of it.
Post by: fireweed on October 27, 2018, 02:00:56 PM
Is there any legal way to access stateland that is basically surrounded by Weyerhaeuser I would assume that the state has an easement but I can’t find it on my gps with hunt Washington chip or the hunt onX app..Nearly all state DNR land, even landlocked land, has some type of easement. The key is to get a hold of the specific easement and read the details. Nowadays, the timber companies are very careful to specifically EXCLUDE the public. ie, the easement will say for "administrative purposes only" or for "Forestry purposes only". However, back in the 60's and 70's the easements I've found say the purpose is to "access state land" or "access the lands of the parties" in the easement, with no language excluding anyone. Now the DNR and private landowners might disagree, but I don't see how anyone walking down a road headed to state land with an easement with a specific purpose of accessing state land could be found to be trespassing. Get and carry a copy of the easement first from the court house.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
Post by: M_ray on October 27, 2018, 03:54:27 PM
Is there any legal way to access stateland that is basically surrounded by Weyerhaeuser I would assume that the state has an easement but I can’t find it on my gps with hunt Washington chip or the hunt onX app..Nearly all state DNR land, even landlocked land, has some type of easement. The key is to get a hold of the specific easement and read the details. Nowadays, the timber companies are very careful to specifically EXCLUDE the public. ie, the easement will say for "administrative purposes only" or for "Forestry purposes only". However, back in the 60's and 70's the easements I've found say the purpose is to "access state land" or "access the lands of the parties" in the easement, with no language excluding anyone. Now the DNR and private landowners might disagree, but I don't see how anyone walking down a road headed to state land with an easement with a specific purpose of accessing state land could be found to be trespassing. Get and carry a copy of the easement first from the court house.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
This is only feasible if you plan to hunt one or two pieces... many of us hunt all over the west and it would be a full time job trying to research the thousands of pieces in your hunting areas. I for one don’t want to end up in a barn upside down by boots assuming there is an easement... Rule of thumb across the west is “ If it doesn’t touch the road DONT access!”
Post by: sRaud on October 27, 2018, 04:03:26 PM
Post by: CLARKTAR on October 27, 2018, 04:36:51 PM
Where can a person look up and acquire these easements?Is there any legal way to access stateland that is basically surrounded by Weyerhaeuser I would assume that the state has an easement but I can’t find it on my gps with hunt Washington chip or the hunt onX app..Nearly all state DNR land, even landlocked land, has some type of easement. The key is to get a hold of the specific easement and read the details. Nowadays, the timber companies are very careful to specifically EXCLUDE the public. ie, the easement will say for "administrative purposes only" or for "Forestry purposes only". However, back in the 60's and 70's the easements I've found say the purpose is to "access state land" or "access the lands of the parties" in the easement, with no language excluding anyone. Now the DNR and private landowners might disagree, but I don't see how anyone walking down a road headed to state land with an easement with a specific purpose of accessing state land could be found to be trespassing. Get and carry a copy of the easement first from the court house.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
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Post by: fireweed on October 29, 2018, 07:20:30 AM
Where can a person look up and acquire these easements?Is there any legal way to access stateland that is basically surrounded by Weyerhaeuser I would assume that the state has an easement but I can’t find it on my gps with hunt Washington chip or the hunt onX app..Nearly all state DNR land, even landlocked land, has some type of easement. The key is to get a hold of the specific easement and read the details. Nowadays, the timber companies are very careful to specifically EXCLUDE the public. ie, the easement will say for "administrative purposes only" or for "Forestry purposes only". However, back in the 60's and 70's the easements I've found say the purpose is to "access state land" or "access the lands of the parties" in the easement, with no language excluding anyone. Now the DNR and private landowners might disagree, but I don't see how anyone walking down a road headed to state land with an easement with a specific purpose of accessing state land could be found to be trespassing. Get and carry a copy of the easement first from the court house.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
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I've done my research online with the county (Cowlitz) which is putting some of this on their parcel search or AUDITOR search records online to download. The counties (and sometimes libraries) also have paper or microfilm copies. Here's an example of the auditor records search. You need to search name State of Washington or Department of Natural Resources or the landowner that you think the state easement crosses (ie Weyerhaeuser)
http://www.co.cowlitz.wa.us/index.aspx?nid=1302
Unfortunately, Cowlitz hasn't put on the older easements yet, but you get the idea.
Be aware these easements change over time, so be sure it is up to date.
Post by: fireweed on December 16, 2018, 10:03:39 AM
Post by: JakeLand on December 16, 2018, 05:54:00 PM
Post by: highhunter on December 16, 2018, 07:28:37 PM
Post by: jmscon on December 16, 2018, 07:49:07 PM
Contact Backcountry Hunters and Anglers or RMEF, this is right up their alley.
I just came across some things yesterday that I need to look into, an old mainline that is now labeled as a private road and has a sign that says “do not enter no access to state timer board lands” and other things that OnX maps needs to correct or there is some serious squatting going on.
Keep up the good work!
Post by: Lumpy Taters on December 16, 2018, 08:50:28 PM
Post by: fireweed on December 17, 2018, 09:34:39 AM
Post by: ljsommer on December 17, 2018, 09:45:32 AM
Post by: cb1989 on December 17, 2018, 10:07:51 AM
Regarding the amount of private land in Texas: I am assuming that getting permission to hunt is easier there than it is here, due to political climate differences (good luck getting permission to hunt from a vegan Bernie supporter who thinks the 2nd amendment should be abolished)
Ha. I got a buddy in Texas... Joe 6pack's not gonna get permission on any good private land down there. Be like trying to get free access to flooded corn up here to hunt ducks. Too much money in it, nobody gives that away. Plus, when's the last time you met a Bernie that owns any land?
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on December 17, 2018, 02:18:23 PM
Regarding the amount of private land in Texas: I am assuming that getting permission to hunt is easier there than it is here, due to political climate differences (good luck getting permission to hunt from a vegan Bernie supporter who thinks the 2nd amendment should be abolished)Like most of the southeast US as well, Texas is Pay to Play. Private land is what is known as a deer lease, and the lessee pays the owner by the acre and year for the hunting rights. Many times hunters will band together as clubs to lease large acreages.
I once worked with a guy who was an avowed antihunter, yet owned a deer lease in Texas as an investment.
Post by: ljsommer on December 17, 2018, 02:29:39 PM
Post by: elkfins on December 17, 2018, 04:41:59 PM
Regarding the amount of private land in Texas: I am assuming that getting permission to hunt is easier there than it is here, due to political climate differences (good luck getting permission to hunt from a vegan Bernie supporter who thinks the 2nd amendment should be abolished)
Not the case. Productive hunting land is a big business down there via Leases and outfitters.
Post by: cb1989 on December 18, 2018, 09:32:49 AM
It makes me sad that this has become such a pay-to-win sport. I just got into it, but my grandpa hunted most of his life and was very poor when he did so, but was able to harvest deer and elk reliably. Now I feel like this is on its way to being a sport for the rich.
That's why quality, accessible public land is so important.
Post by: Samloffler on January 03, 2019, 07:29:54 PM
The closest I could get was the legal descriptions on the assessor's site referencing easement dates, but couldn't find the actual easement anywhere. I looked on the county website and the DNR website.
If anyone would give me some guidance on how to find the actual easement that would be great.
Post by: fireweed on January 05, 2019, 03:35:08 PM
Any updates on this? I spent some time today trying to locate easements for some state ground in Benton county but couldnt find anything. I don't think I'm looking in the right places.Go to the local DNR office with the Section-Township-Range date etc. of the parcel and the road number that you want. They have a database. If they don't have the specifics on the easement language, try to get the Book/Volume and Page number it is recorded on, or an "auditor file number". Sometimes a neighboring property (that also uses the road) that has recently been sold will have that in a title report that might be online with references to an easement. Go back to county with the auditor Number or the Volume/Page the easement is recorded on. You can also ask the county folks how to look it up in their books but at a minimum you need the Sect/Twnship/Range to start with and date always helps.
The closest I could get was the legal descriptions on the assessor's site referencing easement dates, but couldn't find the actual easement anywhere. I looked on the county website and the DNR website.
If anyone would give me some guidance on how to find the actual easement that would be great.
Post by: Samloffler on January 06, 2019, 11:36:10 AM
Post by: fishnfur on January 07, 2019, 12:45:19 AM
Is there any legal way to access stateland that is basically surrounded by Weyerhaeuser I would assume that the state has an easement but I can’t find it on my gps with hunt Washington chip or the hunt onX app..Nearly all state DNR land, even landlocked land, has some type of easement. The key is to get a hold of the specific easement and read the details. Nowadays, the timber companies are very careful to specifically EXCLUDE the public. ie, the easement will say for "administrative purposes only" or for "Forestry purposes only". However, back in the 60's and 70's the easements I've found say the purpose is to "access state land" or "access the lands of the parties" in the easement, with no language excluding anyone. Now the DNR and private landowners might disagree, but I don't see how anyone walking down a road headed to state land with an easement with a specific purpose of accessing state land could be found to be trespassing. Get and carry a copy of the easement first from the court house.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
I agree with Fireweed on this one. I'm sure you are required to stay within the confines of the easement as you pass. Most of these were deeded a long time ago with no intent to limit access to hunters or others. It was all legal-eze for allowing tree harvests on State owned landlocked parcels. Many of the deeds for easements were sold for a dollar, or some insignificant amount that satisfied the court's definition of a sale.
The easements that Weyco uses to cross private properties that they've sold more recently (say in the last 50 years) on the edges/borders of county roads are more specific, I believe, and require the landowner (or subsequent purchaser of that parcel) who purchased the land from Weyco, to allow loggers access to lands now landlocked subsequent to those sales. These types of easements are not likely open for public access into Weyco and deeper in DNR lands, if present.
Post by: fireweed on June 10, 2019, 08:08:36 AM
I wrote up my findings and sent it out to a few folks; Backcountry Hunters/Anglers, and Olympic Peninsula Org, and a state contact. I heard virtually nothing back. When contacting State Rep. Brian Blake about another issue, I brought the access easement to state land issue up and he replied that they were "working on it".
Through the grapevine yesterday I learned that the DNR is indeed working on this. Lawyers are getting involved. Weyerhaeuser, which I used as an example, is pushing back hard. They are claiming that the easements are for forestry only. My big fear now is that the DNR will chicken out and drop the issue, kowtowing to Big W's big influence. Everything is still quiet, and this "story" might not sit well with industry if it gets out. Maybe we should make sure it isn't buried.
Post by: Stein on June 10, 2019, 08:32:45 AM
Have you sent information to other parties than you have listed above? Randy Newberg comes to mind, I am sure there are others with more of an audience than we have here.
Post by: grade-creek-rd on June 10, 2019, 09:41:21 AM
Grade
Post by: fireweed on June 10, 2019, 11:39:13 AM
Post by: OutHouse on June 10, 2019, 12:57:39 PM
Post by: OutHouse on June 10, 2019, 01:49:20 PM
Post by: wooltie on June 10, 2019, 01:56:46 PM
So a quick update:
I wrote up my findings and sent it out to a few folks; Backcountry Hunters/Anglers, and Olympic Peninsula Org, and a state contact. I heard virtually nothing back. When contacting Brian Blake about another issue, I brought the access easement to state land issue up and he replied that they were "working on it".
Through the grapevine yesterday I learned that the DNR is indeed working on this. Lawyers are getting involved. Weyerhaeuser, which I used as an example, is pushing back hard. They are claiming that the easements are for forestry only. My big fear now is that the DNR will chicken out and drop the issue, kowtowing to Big W's big influence. Everything is still quiet, and this "story" might not sit well with industry if it gets out. Maybe we should make sure it isn't buried.
Who did you write to at BHA? The WA chapter?
Post by: fireweed on June 10, 2019, 02:30:47 PM
yesSo a quick update:
I wrote up my findings and sent it out to a few folks; Backcountry Hunters/Anglers, and Olympic Peninsula Org, and a state contact. I heard virtually nothing back. When contacting Brian Blake about another issue, I brought the access easement to state land issue up and he replied that they were "working on it".
Through the grapevine yesterday I learned that the DNR is indeed working on this. Lawyers are getting involved. Weyerhaeuser, which I used as an example, is pushing back hard. They are claiming that the easements are for forestry only. My big fear now is that the DNR will chicken out and drop the issue, kowtowing to Big W's big influence. Everything is still quiet, and this "story" might not sit well with industry if it gets out. Maybe we should make sure it isn't buried.
Who did you write to at BHA? The WA chapter?
Post by: fireweed on June 10, 2019, 02:52:07 PM
All I can say as have others is read the easement carefully. If it is only for the grantee that excludes everyone else. County auditor is a good place to start but you will need the filing number. If you have the parcel number that you want to cross you could have a title company give you all easements or records affecting the parcel. You may want to ask them for any and all plat maps that have been filed with the county. These plat maps can also contain and/or create easements designated thereon. If you see an easement analyze the language carefully and sometimes there will be further language affecting the easement in the fine print on the right side of the plat map. Be wary of "for ingress and egress" as that may not include the public. The most clear language I have seen is "public access easement".Nothing I have run into says the easement is for public access specifically. However, I have found one county easement to public land "for all road purposes" that is posted and closed. Most of the language says "the easements are conveyed for the purposes of reconstruction, use, and maintenance of said existing roads for the purpose of providing access to and from lands now owned or hereafter acquired by the parties hereto." The parties being the state of Washington and a timber company. These easements are also described as permanent, divisible, and non-exclusive". I concede that the STATE can limit who uses their easement, and how it is used, but if the state decides that the public can use it, say for walk in access to state land, I don't see how the timber co. can legally object. After all, the shoe is already on the other foot, and timber companies are selling access on these same roads to their permit holders, who then can drive through or to state land on these roads. Why doesn't the state enjoy the same rights? The official line I've gotten from the DNR so far is that it is a "grey area".
Post by: OutHouse on June 10, 2019, 05:21:14 PM
All I can say as have others is read the easement carefully. If it is only for the grantee that excludes everyone else. County auditor is a good place to start but you will need the filing number. If you have the parcel number that you want to cross you could have a title company give you all easements or records affecting the parcel. You may want to ask them for any and all plat maps that have been filed with the county. These plat maps can also contain and/or create easements designated thereon. If you see an easement analyze the language carefully and sometimes there will be further language affecting the easement in the fine print on the right side of the plat map. Be wary of "for ingress and egress" as that may not include the public. The most clear language I have seen is "public access easement".Nothing I have run into says the easement is for public access specifically. However, I have found one county easement to public land "for all road purposes" that is posted and closed. Most of the language says "the easements are conveyed for the purposes of reconstruction, use, and maintenance of said existing roads for the purpose of providing access to and from lands now owned or hereafter acquired by the parties hereto." The parties being the state of Washington and a timber company. These easements are also described as permanent, divisible, and non-exclusive". I concede that the STATE can limit who uses their easement, and how it is used, but if the state decides that the public can use it, say for walk in access to state land, I don't see how the timber co. can legally object. After all, the shoe is already on the other foot, and timber companies are selling access on these same roads to their permit holders, who then can drive through or to state land on these roads. Why doesn't the state enjoy the same rights? The official line I've gotten from the DNR so far is that it is a "grey area".
I take it that you are referring to an easement deed and not an easement created by plat map? If that is the case then the state has an easement but like you say it might be their terms as to who gets to use it. Also, the state may not be able to widen the scope of use to include the public. What happens in these situations is that if the state said everyone can use our easement then the timber company files suit for overburdening the easement beyond the easement deed's plain terms. DNR is saying this is a gray area because it really is. When an easements terms are ambiguous, a court can look to the surrounding circumstances to determine whether the intent of the easement grant was to include the public. That can be difficult because with old easements the people who negotiated are often dead and there aren't witnesses.
What you are describing (if on an easement deed) could amount to a common law dedication to the state for that easement. If that occurred, it is possible it is already a county road but unlikely due to it being gated. Just based off of what we know now, it appears the county has an easement to access other lands but no one else. After hearing this stuff over the years I would never give any timber company money to use their land. I have heard all sorts of stories regarding them getting bull tags etc. and giving them to family. Its like the farmers here in central WA. I know several who like to hunt but never ever buy a tag because they get so many salvage tags some for any animal.
Post by: Goshawk on June 10, 2019, 09:49:21 PM
Our DNR really screwed the public out of some very good lands here in Western Washington.
Post by: spin05 on June 11, 2019, 03:12:53 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 11, 2019, 08:34:48 AM
In fact, one buddy in DNR told me they have to ask permission and meet a timber land owner / employee to be let past a gate for timber grading.
You'd think they would have keys and an easement
Post by: fireweed on June 14, 2019, 08:45:30 AM
From WDFW bi-weekly wildlife report:
"Private Lands Access Agreement: Wildlife Conflict Specialist/Private Lands Biologist Jacobsen met with representatives from Weyerhaeuser Company to enroll 6,638 acres of land in Wahkiakum County in WDFW’s Feel Free to Hunt access program. The majority of this land is
adjacent to land owned by Washington state, and will be an invaluable addition of land open to public hunting."
Post by: Goshawk on June 23, 2019, 07:52:26 AM
In fact, one buddy in DNR told me they have to ask permission and meet a timber land owner / employee to be let past a gate for timber grading.You'd think they would have keys and an easement
Yes you would, but it happens. I'm guessing it's something DNR really does not care about, or it's on purpose so they can argue their access to a land locked area is so bad they need to sell it off to a boarding land owner. Lewis County is spotted with land locked areas, or areas that used to be public access DNR that got swapped out with lands in the high cascades or coastlines. Either way, the local hunting / fishing / hiking population looses out again.
Post by: idaho guy on June 23, 2019, 08:39:32 PM
It makes me sad that this has become such a pay-to-win sport. I just got into it, but my grandpa hunted most of his life and was very poor when he did so, but was able to harvest deer and elk reliably. Now I feel like this is on its way to being a sport for the rich.
It doesn’t have to be a rich mans game. You might have to work harder but feel fortunate you live in a western state with quite a bit of public land :tup: you will find success if you keep at it and keep exploring new areas. If you lived in Texas my understanding is you want to hunt you will pay someone. I hate to see it becoming a big money sport too but there is still tons of opportunities for the average joe hunters. Sounds like you’re just getting into it don’t get discouraged and just enjoy the process. Half the fun is learning new places and methods to hunt. I hunted hogs in Texas and the reason their harvest rates are huge is they raise them like cattle in lots of places high fence stuff. Back to the topic good job fireweed interested to see where this could go! I would second reaching out to Randy newberg
Post by: fireweed on June 27, 2019, 08:29:17 AM
I know that in Lewis County there are several choice slices of DNR land that are indeed land locked and unassailable to the public. In fact, one buddy in DNR told me they have to ask permission and meet a timber land owner / employee to be let past a gate for timber grading.
Our DNR really screwed the public out of some very good lands here in Western Washington.
Lewis County is now a great place to do online research into easements. All of their records are online and you can use the advanced search tab to look up specific section/township/range. Dig into it to see what those DNR parcels have for access.
https://quickdocs.lewiscountywa.gov/recorder/eagleweb/docSearch.jsp
Post by: fireweed on July 03, 2019, 09:48:37 AM
This happened in mid-1967. Before that date (at least for Weyco) most easements had a purpose for "land management and administrative use"; for a decade after mid-1967 the easements purpose was for access "to and from" lands of the parties. There is no way that this wasn't intentionally done to open up the roads to more potential uses. Side by side, nearly every other word of the easements is the same. Proof positive that these roads were intentionally open to all "to and from" uses.
Unfortunately, if you run into a pre-1967 easement, chances are that it is more restrictive than a post-1967 easement.
Post by: fjp971 on July 03, 2019, 11:53:54 AM
Are we making progress? I don't know if this is just a coincidence or the influence of folk like us digging into the issue, but it appears Weyco land tied up with state land just got enrolled in feel free to hunt. Anyone have details about this land? How was it managed beforehand?I just went on the OnX app and clicked on most of the parcels in Wahkiakum county adjacent to the WA State land and I don't see anything labeled as Weyerhaueuser. Am I missing something? Most of them are showing the names of other timber holdings or some insurance companies. This thread is really interesting. I happened to listen to the MeatEater podcast talking about this issue recently also.
From WDFW bi-weekly wildlife report:
"Private Lands Access Agreement: Wildlife Conflict Specialist/Private Lands Biologist Jacobsen met with representatives from Weyerhaeuser Company to enroll 6,638 acres of land in Wahkiakum County in WDFW’s Feel Free to Hunt access program. The majority of this land is
adjacent to land owned by Washington state, and will be an invaluable addition of land open to public hunting."
Post by: fireweed on August 30, 2019, 10:12:23 AM
So more digging leads to more information. Right now the timber companies are claiming that all their easements with the DNR for all time were only for land management and administrative purposes. That just ain't so. In fact, the OPPOSITE is true. The easements started off MORE restricted then became wide open, before switching back to the restricted language. This was a deliberate change.
This happened in mid-1967. Before that date (at least for Weyco) most easements had a purpose for "land management and administrative use"; for a decade after mid-1967 the easements purpose was for access "to and from" lands of the parties. There is no way that this wasn't intentionally done to open up the roads to more potential uses. Side by side, nearly every other word of the easements is the same. Proof positive that these roads were intentionally open to all "to and from" uses.
Unfortunately, if you run into a pre-1967 easement, chances are that it is more restrictive than a post-1967 easement.
To update--what is so special about 1967. That is the year the timber industry got the legislature to pass proposed modifications to the STATE CONSTITUTION to grant the timber and open space tax shifts! Citizens voted on it in 1968. After more digging it appears several large timber companies--Weyerhaeuser, Burlington Norther/Northern Pacific; International Paper/Long Bell; St Regis Paper--all changed the wording of their DNR easements at about the same time, just as citizens were getting ready to vote on this huge tax shift that hugely benefited the timber industry. They obviously wanted to show that they were providing public access and a public benefit and thus deserved the vote and support for the new tax law. Most companies kept this broad wording of their easements in place for about a decade, and as the tax law became accepted (less likely to be reversed) they gradually returned to the old, restricted easement language.
This is proof positive that these roads were intended to be accessible to the public, and that the tax law was rewarding timber companies for public recreation on their land.
Post by: Buckhunter24 on August 30, 2019, 10:25:17 AM
Open space designation is, but I cannot see any indication that designated forest is.
Post by: The Marquis on August 30, 2019, 12:35:35 PM
Are we making progress? I don't know if this is just a coincidence or the influence of folk like us digging into the issue, but it appears Weyco land tied up with state land just got enrolled in feel free to hunt. Anyone have details about this land? How was it managed beforehand?I just went on the OnX app and clicked on most of the parcels in Wahkiakum county adjacent to the WA State land and I don't see anything labeled as Weyerhaueuser. Am I missing something? Most of them are showing the names of other timber holdings or some insurance companies. This thread is really interesting. I happened to listen to the MeatEater podcast talking about this issue recently also.
From WDFW bi-weekly wildlife report:
"Private Lands Access Agreement: Wildlife Conflict Specialist/Private Lands Biologist Jacobsen met with representatives from Weyerhaeuser Company to enroll 6,638 acres of land in Wahkiakum County in WDFW’s Feel Free to Hunt access program. The majority of this land is
adjacent to land owned by Washington state, and will be an invaluable addition of land open to public hunting."
Weyerhaueueueueueser bought Longview Fiber a few years ago. Longview Timberlands are owned by them. That's what you can look for. There is a big parcel surrounded entirely by state land that has a notable easement that's frequently used and a few parcels toward the river. It seems like it might be all lands in that county owned by them save a couple tiny parcels.
Post by: Buckhunter24 on August 30, 2019, 12:39:00 PM
Post by: fireweed on November 07, 2019, 09:01:11 AM
Just when you think we are making progress on access the government Chicken's out because they are afraid of being sued.
Found an "all road uses" easement to several hundred acres of public land the is required by deed to be dedicated to public use, including specifically public river recreation. The land is accessed via an easement through Weyerhaeuser of about 2 miles. This Weyco property is leased out and the road is posted "no trespassing" by the lessee. The agencies controlling the land won't ruffle Weyerhaeuser's feathers and ask for the signs to be removed/modified. They are scared of being sued! After all, the land is "technically" accessible to the public already...by floating the river!