Post by: bucklucky on October 23, 2007, 06:30:04 PM
Post by: actionshooter on October 23, 2007, 06:39:21 PM
Post by: bucklucky on October 23, 2007, 06:40:58 PM
Post by: Ray on October 23, 2007, 06:42:38 PM
Having said that - nobody said blacktails don't weigh over 200 lbs. I think your topic title is a little misleading as far as the points you are trying to get at from a previous thread and the points that other people were making.
Post by: boneaddict on October 23, 2007, 06:52:28 PM
Post by: Ray on October 23, 2007, 06:58:09 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 23, 2007, 07:06:16 PM
If you didn't weigh the whole deer how do you know what the live weight is? What deer weight chart? Ya know those charts aren't completely acurate right? Might want to preface the weights with "and according to the chart".
Post by: Ray on October 23, 2007, 07:15:50 PM
Post by: Palmer on October 23, 2007, 07:49:16 PM
Remember also that you have Sitkas, Columbians, and Muley mixes. so on the islands you may have Sitka Blacktail which are much smaller. Many Blacktail mare mixed Sitka and Columbian. In the Cascades you've got a mix of Blacktail and Muley.
My butcher wants the head taken off as well as dressed out so he says the dead weight is 60%. Dead weight/60% = live weight.
Post by: Dman on October 23, 2007, 08:17:04 PM
You never know the weight of an animal or other object until you weigh it on a scale. Just like I said before. If someone said they weighed an animal I would take their word on that. If they didn't then expect people to question it.
Having said that - nobody said blacktails don't weigh over 200 lbs. I think your topic title is a little misleading as far as the points you are trying to get at from a previous thread and the points that other people were making.
Let's just say that everyone's blacktail experience may be different, they do vary in size locally -as stated above, very well put, but they definitely can reach well over 200lbs. An islands blacktail doesn't have the habitat needed to reach the size of say, a Cascade foothill buck. I don't agree that you cannot field judge the size of a deer. It's no different than benchmarking during any type of construction project. You start with say a 150lb forky, there's your benchmark. You have him weighed and several other buck's of varying size weighed, now you have a relatively accurate way to gauge the size of any future buck. Fairly easy to tell, if you know your own capabilities say, squat press-wise to tell how much you are lifting off the ground also, when packing a deer, so there's really two different ways to help you field judge the weight.
Post by: Ray on October 23, 2007, 08:20:58 PM
Quote
I don't agree that you cannot field judge the size of a deer.
1- never said people cannot field judge animal.
2- did say this though. Expect people to question it if you didn't weigh it.
Quote
Weight is something to be proud of in some circumstances.
I agree it is something to be proud of. however nobody but hunters care. that's my point there.
Post by: Dman on October 23, 2007, 08:31:50 PM
Post by: Ray on October 23, 2007, 08:32:43 PM
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on October 23, 2007, 08:46:57 PM
It's just damn tough to get a weight on a deer most of the time. I know of only one place about two hours south of me I could get it done, not going to drive that far! My hunting partner suggested I use my wife's nice bathroom scale, that would be the last you'd hear from me........
You have to drive that far to weigh a deer? Goo buy a scale from Sportsman, Cabelas, Bass Pro, or Sportco. I use to keep one at the deer process I wroked for and my taxidermy shop. Looks like I need to go buy another one.
Post by: Ray on October 23, 2007, 08:48:18 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on October 23, 2007, 10:10:56 PM
Post by: Palmer on October 23, 2007, 10:43:12 PM
Post by: Palmer on October 23, 2007, 10:56:08 PM
I just wanted to give an example of a 200 #er.
Post by: Blacktail135 on October 23, 2007, 11:18:39 PM
My heaviest was 199 field dressed.
Hunted Indian Is. year's ago out of Port Townsend where they kept track of deer weight's and the heaviest they had on the chart was 212lbs. Smallest was 37lbs.
Post by: Ray on October 23, 2007, 11:45:52 PM
135 lbs at the butcher without the head so according to him 135/.6 = 225lbs. Or according to others on this thread 135/.7 = 193lbs.
I just wanted to give an example of a 200 #er.
It is interesting to note that the formulas offer a 30+ lb weight difference. However one thing is for sure... it was weighed so we definitely know something about it. Once something is placed on or hung from a scale a certain amount of speculation is gone from my mind and there is definitely some evidence which is more concrete than "I can squat this and press that" sort of self declared expertise. To me, that is hocus pocus jingus garbage. That's a candid response; not callous, retaliatory or anything with mal intent. I call something like that bogus because it is not even a rarely used standard of any sort and seemingly not by more than one human being. It's something someone made up just today as far as I can tell. Also, me saying that does not equate to: "you have to measure all of your animals or you are a liar" either.
Maybe this subject is like someone field judging their distances while shooting and someone who has an accurate rangefinder... I like to think I am good at judging distance but I would never be certain without verifying with something other than intuition or speculation.
Furthermore... the people who keep perpetuating the topic here about large blacktail deer appear fixated on a remark I made which was "I have never laid eyes on 200lb blacktail buck". They somehow seem to have instantly equated that to "200lb blacktails don't exist"... at least as far as I can tell. The fact is that is a remark which I never made, suggested or implied. I think that what has really happened is that my comments were completely misconstrued and then people started trying to justify that there are indeed 200lb blacktails. Shortly after that remark Dman and yourself for example started posting links and pictures of large deer which in fact had been measured somehow. Unlike his deer which was called into question by people other than myself. To me, this shows that some people either 1) feel insulted or 2) have read into my remarks and things have become twisted up on their end
The existence of 200lb+ bucks really is not what the topic was about as much as just like I said before... You don't really know the weight of any object until you use standard weights , scales, or other measures to make the call on them. If you don't use something like that then don't be surprised if someone doubts you. That doesn't mean that someone's deer is not a nice one and it certainly is not a discredit. It's a matter of how people measure and compare things using established standards.
Post by: Palmer on October 24, 2007, 04:40:55 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 24, 2007, 06:07:49 AM
Quote
I'd guess he's well over 200lbs
Maybe live weight. Looks a little narrow through the chest to be 200 field dressed. :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on October 24, 2007, 06:22:04 AM
Course here is a thought, the butcher makes more money the more it weighs hmmmmmmmm :chuckle:
Time to start putting pics of 300 pounders on here I guess, you know BIG mule deer. :)
Post by: billythekidrock on October 24, 2007, 06:42:42 AM
Quote
Time to start putting pics of 300 pounders on here I guess, you know BIG mule deer.
Now you are going to get it started......I saw one killed that was 240 gutted near Omak..not a big deal ya say? The big deal was I watched the guy pack it on his back a 1/2 mile..
He killed this buck, a 4x5, and called me on the radio. Told me it was a 500 meter shot..I just laughed and said "well I don't know, will have to check it out". (The next day we ranged it at 385 yds). He was aiming between the eyes as the deer was facing him, slightly angling down hill and had the chest/neck/head/spine all in line. (hit it just beneath the eye) Anyway, we contacted one of the other two in our group by radio and he went back to the boat for packboards. It was gutted when I got to it so we took a rope and lowered it down the ridge to a draw with a cattle trail on flat ground. After waiting a bit, he remembered me telling him how to turn a deer into a backpack and asked if I would show him how.. I just laughed and said there is no 'f'ing way you are going to carry that out. He said he just wanted to see how it was done, so I showed him. After some time waiting, he asked if I could carry his rifle and pack if he could carry the deer. I told him if he could carry the deer I had better be able to carry everything we had. So he got down on his back and rolled into the deer. It was all I could do to help him get that thing on his back, but once we did I told him "go, don't stop, don't wait...just keep going". After a quarter mile he stopped and we tried to get contact on the radio..no luck. So he tries to load up again and I try to get him to wait. He wants to see the look on the other guys faces so we load up and go another good stretch before we run into the rest of our group.. The look was priceless! They cut him in half (more or less) and packed him out the other 1/2 mile to the boat. I was impressed as was the rest of the folks at camp. I took a ton of pics, but only two turned out (had a cheap digital). The one I really wanted was when we walked within 30 yards of a doe on the hill. She was totally confused by the buck ontop of my buddy, it's rear and tail banging into my buddies thighs...lol
Post by: billythekidrock on October 24, 2007, 06:47:34 AM
Post by: YellowDog on October 24, 2007, 09:23:07 AM
If you say the buck with the bigger body, I call BS. My point is that when it gets right down to it, weight doesn't matter.
A big buck is a big buck. Its nice to shoot a big bodied deer but weight isn't going to be much of a factor in which one I shoot. For all the record book guys, just to be sure, is there any scoring method that considers the weight of the animal? I think not.
If it is about the weight of the animal, go buy a cow its a lot easier and cheaper by the pound than hunting. I'm with huntwa, if you want to talk weight of an animal, put it on a scale, don't guess.
Post by: Dman on October 24, 2007, 09:51:16 AM
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2007, 10:07:54 AM
Post by: Dman on October 24, 2007, 10:33:31 AM
Post by: finnman on October 24, 2007, 11:09:26 AM
I never knew the calculation for figuring the weight of a butcher ready deer(gutted,legs and head off and skinned), but if it is weight/.6 then the muley I took last year in Entiat 165lbs./.6 = 275lbs., But again how honest or accurate is the scale your working with? I think it all relative and really an issue not worth getting excited over.
Post by: sisu on October 24, 2007, 11:10:26 AM
This may sound all weird and far out but that is the way my Finnish roots are made.
Be happy you got something to eat, had a good time with friends and relatives, because you never know when your or their moment of leaving this wonderful life could happen.
Post by: BlackTail on October 24, 2007, 11:22:02 AM
Post by: Dman on October 24, 2007, 11:29:49 AM
I think you can make a division between trophy hunters and meat hunter's. The meat hunter may care about and appreciate a nice rack, but probably won't have a clue how to score it and ultimately cares more only that it was a huge buck. Washington isn't like Texas, where you'll have a buck with a world record rack and and dinker body on it. Generally, a large body size in Wa. = a buck with a decent rack also.
Post by: jackelope on October 24, 2007, 11:40:26 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi79.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj139%2FBAILEYDAD%2Fdeadhorse.gif&hash=f9784adfb24657fed5be6fb2c4d42abdb4bcaddb)
Post by: Intruder on October 24, 2007, 12:37:17 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 24, 2007, 12:39:36 PM
Here is at least a 285 pound whitie.........
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fdui.jpg&hash=2423a03ee3ae15649c698d27a8f827e48d992464)
Post by: bucklucky on October 24, 2007, 01:07:27 PM
Post by: Dman on October 24, 2007, 01:07:59 PM
-at least 350lbs
Post by: bucklucky on October 24, 2007, 01:10:40 PM
Post by: YellowDog on October 24, 2007, 01:13:43 PM
Post by: bucklucky on October 24, 2007, 01:15:17 PM
Post by: Ray on October 24, 2007, 01:16:51 PM
Post by: sisu on October 24, 2007, 01:20:43 PM
Post by: bucklucky on October 24, 2007, 01:24:49 PM
Post by: Dman on October 24, 2007, 01:37:28 PM
Post by: bucklucky on October 24, 2007, 01:39:16 PM
Post by: Palmer on October 24, 2007, 11:48:21 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 25, 2007, 06:10:23 AM
Post by: sisu on October 25, 2007, 09:04:10 AM
I'd post a picture of her but everyone here would request I be kicked off the site.
Post by: bucklucky on October 25, 2007, 09:50:59 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 25, 2007, 10:02:49 AM
or ask her to step on the scale. Either might have got you killed. :chuckle:
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on October 25, 2007, 02:07:04 PM
:chuckle:
Here is at least a 285 pound whitie.........
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fdui.jpg&hash=2423a03ee3ae15649c698d27a8f827e48d992464)
You have got to be joking :rolleyes:
Post by: Dman on October 25, 2007, 04:43:31 PM
A) Realize that we in our mid thirties, or younger have a lot to learn about the outdoors (myself included!) and need to keep expanding our knowledge base and experience level always.
-and
B) Relax and enjoy our friends, families and hunting experiences and be thankful for what we have, that's all that's important at the end of the day!! :hello: :hello: :hello:!!!
Post by: jackelope on October 25, 2007, 04:47:16 PM
thanks.
Post by: Palmer on October 25, 2007, 10:38:31 PM
I think over the Holidays we all just need to
A) Realize that we in our mid thirties, or younger have a lot to learn about the outdoors (myself included!) and need to keep expanding our knowledge base and experience level always.
-and
B) Relax and enjoy our friends, families and hunting experiences and be thankful for what we have, that's all that's important at the end of the day!! :hello: :hello: :hello:!!!
I get on this site because most of my friends and family are tired of me talk about deer hunting. It's all I think about 90% of the time until after I take a week off for whitetail late season. :drool: Then I finally get it out of my system and start thinking about snow skiing. If I were you I'd be flying high as a kite right now.
Post by: Kent Hunter on October 26, 2007, 03:10:13 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hunt101.com%2Fwatermark.php%3Ffile%3D504%2F7306disk_blacktail_029_Custom_-med.JPG&hash=a4501b78ebb5d2ff7d41d9492a7fafe1b4e77624)
Post by: Palmer on October 26, 2007, 03:45:37 PM
Post by: Dman on October 26, 2007, 04:19:50 PM
Got my meat back from Stewart's today, 102lbs processed off my buck. According the all the butcher chart's I can find, with an error margin of 10-15lbs, the buck was between 224 and 260lbs. Pretty broad range but gives a ballpark anyways.
Post by: Kent Hunter on October 26, 2007, 04:43:40 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 26, 2007, 05:59:44 PM
Quote
You can walk right up to them, even if they're whitetails.
when they're tame you can...
Post by: Palmer on October 26, 2007, 06:22:00 PM
Nice buck again Kent hunter, glad I missed out on the GR-A tag this year afterall....
Got my meat back from Stewart's today, 102lbs processed off my buck. According the all the butcher chart's I can find, with an error margin of 10-15lbs, the buck was between 224 and 260lbs. Pretty broad range but gives a ballpark anyways.
Yes!!! That's what I'm talkin' about. Nice Buck. I wish you had a full photo of him.
Post by: Palmer on October 26, 2007, 06:30:14 PM
QuoteYou can walk right up to them, even if they're whitetails.
when they're tame you can...
Afraid not. When there's weather comin' in and they're on the move, I've tracked 'em and walked right up to them, bucks included. If you don't smell like a human and you give them a doe grunt, the young ones will stand there and stare at you. I'm talkin' about in the wild. Last year I walked up to within' 15 - 40 yards of 2 groups of whitetail deer within' 1 hour - a doe with two fawns and a 1 1/2 year old buck with two other deer. I could have thrown a rock at them.
Last summer I was observing several blacktail. The forkies and spikes will stare at you for minutes from 30 - 40 yards away. Whenever I came across the 4 point he bounded off.
Rule #1 Don't let them smell you as everybody knows. All the other tips are worthless without this one.
Post by: bucklucky on October 27, 2007, 11:29:13 AM
Post by: Palmer on October 27, 2007, 08:23:27 PM
Somebody keeps changing the title on this post! This may sound like B.S. but Iup where I hunt I can get pretty close to does and small bucks using "The Can". I could have touched a doe with my rifle once, another time I saw a doe about 75 yards ahead of me so I hit the can and kept hitting it as I walked towards it , got to about 5 yards and she moved to the side of the road, then another doe came off the cut bank right in front of me, went over to the other doe nudged her with her nose . They both rared up and started girl fighting with there hooves. This was within 5 yards of me. They broke up and the one doe went back behind me and the other one just stood there. Ive been able to get within 5 yards of does quite often doing that. The doe that I could have touched with my rifle is still around too. She never spooks when I come up the road. I did call in my drop horn buck using the can that same year.
Doe grunts or the can are very effective and a ton of fun. I've had lots of luck that way as long as I use scent free detergents and sprays.
Post by: Dman on October 27, 2007, 10:02:26 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 30, 2007, 10:45:03 AM
Post by: Bigshooter on November 02, 2007, 07:54:59 AM
Post by: jackelope on November 02, 2007, 08:04:32 AM
Quote
Somebody keeps changing the title on this post!
wonder who that could be bucklucky...
Post by: bucklucky on November 02, 2007, 08:38:42 AM
Post by: jackelope on November 02, 2007, 08:39:36 AM
Post by: bucklucky on November 02, 2007, 08:46:48 AM
Post by: Dman on November 02, 2007, 03:09:46 PM
-Lope, I did hear once of a 648lb blacktail buck shot down near Peachfuzz, somewhere in dipsnit County, story goes the hunter shot it in the leg real bad -it bled gravy................. ;D
Post by: Palmer on November 02, 2007, 04:01:54 PM
Post by: HuntingFanatic on November 02, 2007, 04:59:18 PM
the hunter shot it in the leg real bad -it bled gravy................. ;D
mmmm....venison gravy! :drool:
Post by: billythekidrock on November 02, 2007, 05:17:48 PM
the hunter shot it in the leg real bad -it bled gravy................. ;D
mmmm....venison gravy! :drool:
:tung: :tung:
Post by: Bigshooter on November 03, 2007, 02:07:53 PM
Post by: Idabooner on November 03, 2007, 03:04:42 PM
1. Butchers make more money the more the deer weighs.
2. You get x amount of meat back and you plug it into a chart, remember that anywhere from %15-30 of that weight might come from pork or beef talo or meat added in.
3.Guides, outfitters, and butchers make their living by satisfied customers. They love to inflate scores and weights to boost your egos to make you feel good about yourself. They will never say, ooooh thats a scrawny one.
Post by: bucklucky on November 03, 2007, 03:56:14 PM
Post by: Dman on November 03, 2007, 07:47:23 PM
Post by: Palmer on November 03, 2007, 10:17:41 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on November 04, 2007, 05:27:34 AM
Quote
3.Guides, outfitters, and butchers make their living by satisfied customers. They love to inflate scores and weights to boost your egos to make you feel good about yourself. They will never say, ooooh thats a scrawny one.
Well said!. This is a huge one. I see it all the time with bears. "The guide said it was over .... lbs" "We couldn't weight it, but the outfitter said it was bigger then the one that weighed ..."
All about keeping egos inflated and customers coming back.
Post by: Bigshooter on November 04, 2007, 07:04:29 AM
Post by: Wea300mag on November 04, 2007, 05:36:10 PM
Post by: jackelope on November 04, 2007, 07:39:39 PM
Post by: Dman on November 04, 2007, 07:53:13 PM