Post by: luvmystang67 on January 23, 2019, 07:54:56 AM
I've got a basic design for a Tipi selected, but I need some help on the details. Basic idea is low weight (not ultralight) spike camp type tent that I can use to dry things on a laundry line inside. Shooting for <10 lb mark with the stove.
Already Determined:
Its going to be 12 isosceles triangles that are 141 inches tall (at center) and about 55" across the base. This will yield a radius of about 101" (diameter of 202" or 16'10") which should yield a floor space of 223 ft^2. It will be 99" tall or 8'4" at the center. The material is a PU4000 from Ripstop by the Roll and the thread will be a Gutermann Tex 50 (unless someone convinces me otherwise). This is roughly modeled after an 8 man kifaru, seek outside or titanium goat tent. It will have a stove jack, an air vent, side tie-outs, and obviously some kind of door.
Designs Roughly Copied
https://store.kifaru.net/8-man-tipi-p78.aspx
https://seekoutside.com/8-person-tipi-pre
http://www.titaniumgoat.com/vertex8.html
Material:
https://ripstopbytheroll.com/products/1-6-oz-silpoly-pu4000-woodland-camo
My list of questions that I hope you can all help with:
1. What do I do for a door? Most tents I see do not have a zip to the top, also, do I put a zip on a seam that I'm already stitching or do I cut a zipper in mid-panel? I kind of like the design shown here, which basically has a cover over the top to allow for a much greater opening and might keep rain off, but might also be unnecessary: https://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/shelters-3/WG114.html
2. Do I need to add catenary curves to my seams and/or to the base cuts? Do these actually provide much value in a tipi for the extra effort? How much offset do people use? If I did it, I'm tempted to do something small like 2" at center, but I'm also not even sure its needed.
3. What materials do I use for tie-outs and how to I affix them to the seams? Do I take a doubled up piece of my main tent material and affix a small nylon loop to it and then stitch that into my seams? Any recommendation here? How far up should my tie-outs go? Looks like many people tie them up about 2'.
4. Similar to #3, what do I really need for the stake supports? Can I just double or triple up with my tent scraps for reinforcement and put a nylon loop on the ends of the seams and perhaps some on the midspans of my triangles? I know some people use like cordura patches, are these really necessary?
5. Any great recommendations on the stove jack, its location, the edge room required, etc? I have the material from ripstop by the roll, but I'm trying to figure out how to integrate it. One example here just leaves a hole in the tent, which is surrounded by velcro, which I like because you could replace the stove jack easily if you needed to (if it got singed or something), but appears to add some bulk and weight. I guess the idea here is that you'd just put a blockoff panel of tent material (also velcro) over it if not in use. The other option is to build it in and sew on a tent material flap that could be rolled up above it and have both panels be permanently affixed to the tent. Anyone have examples or photos of how the big dogs do it? How about edge margins? https://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/shelters-3/WG114.html
6. What do I do at the base of the tent? Most of the ones I look at have a small gap between the tent and the ground when stretched. There are also other examples that leave a little bit of unstretched material below the lowest tie downs as a kind of wind block and seal with the ground. I like the look of this, even though it'd probably end up with my tent getting dirty. It'd be nice not to have a draft coming in at the base of the tent where I'm sleeping. Does anyone have any experience and design consideration when it comes to this? Also how do I finish the bottom of the tent? Do I put a nylon strip down there for strength and durability, or just do a roll stitch to save weight as the durability isn't needed? The two types of bases I'm looking at are:
this pic again: https://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/shelters-3/WG114.html
versus a standard dead-end type finish: https://store.kifaru.net/8-man-tipi-p78.aspx
7. How do I finish off the top of this bad boy? Do I leave the top open and then sew a small cone piece on? Do I bring the tops together like a hat and then cone over that? What does the top cone need to be? How much do I need to reinforce the inside for the pole support? Functionally, how do I do this with the machine?
8. Stupid question... does the 1.6oz mean 1.6oz per actual square yard, or is it per material yard (which is wider than 3 ft)? I bought 24 "yards" of material, but nearest I can figure I should have a little more than 30 square yards of tent surface. If I'm trying to get an approximate tent material weight before all the extras, I'm assuming I'm at 3 lbs given 1.6oz x 30 actual square yards.
Thanks for anyone who takes the time to read this, I need a little help. I've already gotten a few pointers from Jonathan S. Also, pics are worth 1000 words, so if you have any that'd help me.
Thanks,
Stang
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 23, 2019, 07:59:19 AM
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,192689.0.html
Another.
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,194768.msg2748614.html#msg2748614
Post by: Dhoey07 on January 23, 2019, 08:01:05 AM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 23, 2019, 08:09:02 AM
Get a hold of Jonathan_S:yeah: He’s built several - lucky source of info right here. :tup:
I have a seek outside 8 man. If building from scratch would design with tie outs 3’ up and catenary curves so you almost have 3’ sidewalls. Similar effect of lowering center pole a couple feet and snugging up guylines.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 23, 2019, 08:10:03 AM
Post by: CoryTDF on January 23, 2019, 08:24:58 AM
Going to be selling a TiGoat large WiFi stove soon if anybody is interested. I have to finish up testing and review then it's off to market.
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 23, 2019, 08:25:39 AM
I just got an 8 man SO with XL stove. Let me know if you want any pics of details. But otherwise, Jonathan_S is your guy for DIY.
I'd love to see some photos of the areas I was curious about... basically the inside and outside of the peak, the way the stove jack is installed, the way the guy-line loops are attached, the reinforcements on the stake-out points, etc.
Basically a couple of detail pics that might help me. If you don't have that but have some general pics of it assembled, that'd be helpful too. I just don't have a good existing one to lay eyes on.
thanks, stang
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 23, 2019, 08:29:37 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 23, 2019, 08:36:01 AM
Those were my areas of interest, too, when thinking about DIY.I just got an 8 man SO with XL stove. Let me know if you want any pics of details. But otherwise, Jonathan_S is your guy for DIY.
I'd love to see some photos of the areas I was curious about... basically the inside and outside of the peak, the way the stove jack is installed, the way the guy-line loops are attached, the reinforcements on the stake-out points, etc.
Basically a couple of detail pics that might help me. If you don't have that but have some general pics of it assembled, that'd be helpful too. I just don't have a good existing one to lay eyes on.
thanks, stang
I'll see what I can get you. Got to burn in the stove and will likely do a test setup this weekend.
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 23, 2019, 08:38:36 AM
Realized when I saw this that I forgot to follow up again with you. I'm finishing a tent in the next few weeks and will post some pics for you based on what we talked about
Not a problem, I just needed to start a thread to get going on this. I have all the material and its burning a hole in my pocket. I want to get it cut out at least and extras ordered so I can get going before the sun comes out and I don't want to be sewing anymore.
Also, my wife is away a few days next week so I can take over the living room with cutting stuff and not be interfered with.
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 23, 2019, 08:44:44 AM
Get a hold of Jonathan_S:yeah: He’s built several - lucky source of info right here. :tup:
I have a seek outside 8 man. If building from scratch would design with tie outs 3’ up and catenary curves so you almost have 3’ sidewalls. Similar effect of lowering center pole a couple feet and snugging up guylines.
Oh man I've gone through 375 yards of nylon 65". I added up the miles of thread one time but I forget what it was
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 23, 2019, 08:53:05 AM
3. I use cordura, burn the edges and then nylon webbing or polypro webbing for the stake loops
4. Stove jack centered, the top attached to the bottom of the top cone is the most stable and easiest to utilize the rest of the tent.
6. Base of the tent just double roll and hem.
7. With the canopy done and zipper installed, turn the tent inside out. Then with the top cone (cut and fitted to be slightly smaller than the top of the tent) right side out, drop it into the hole of the tent. Pin in place and sew, sew, sew. Leave enough material from the seam that you can fold it back over and sew again and again. A grosgrain binding over top of it all is helpful and looks good.
8. 1.6 oz = 36”x36” prior to the silicone treatment
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 23, 2019, 10:35:54 AM
Get a hold of Jonathan_S:yeah: He’s built several - lucky source of info right here. :tup:
I have a seek outside 8 man. If building from scratch would design with tie outs 3’ up and catenary curves so you almost have 3’ sidewalls. Similar effect of lowering center pole a couple feet and snugging up guylines.
Does something like this ACTUALLY give you more space or just the illusion of more space?
Also, how does this relate to the slack material at the base of the panels? I like the idea of using that to be able to block wind out, but I don't really want to be piling dirt on the extra material at the base of my tent either... so maybe it wouldn't provide any benefit.
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 23, 2019, 10:43:19 AM
I'll encourage you and everybody to not overthink a tent build. It's rare to find a place to pitch it perfect anyway.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 23, 2019, 11:25:59 AM
I'd rather sew in an extra panel or two than try and mark catenary curves. Maybe I'd feel differently if time weren't as important to me in an individual build.amen Jon! It's a teepee, dont over think it. The more complex you make it the bigger the PITA its gonna be to pitch at 11pm after a 6 mile hike in 25mph wind and snow :chuckle:
I'll encourage you and everybody to not overthink a tent build. It's rare to find a place to pitch it perfect anyway.
Post by: CoryTDF on January 23, 2019, 02:47:58 PM
https://www.magnafabrics.com/
I bought some cordura from them and it was good stuff.
Post by: spin05 on January 27, 2019, 11:49:15 PM
Post by: Shawn Ryan on January 28, 2019, 12:27:53 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 28, 2019, 02:06:16 AM
Q-5: I put a Ti-Goat jack in a Go-Lite SL4. I had velcro sewn around the jack on the outside and a "matching" sil-nylon cover to place over the hole when not using the stove.
How do you like the velcro panel versus sewn in? Is there any real disadvantage to doing this method versus just sewing the panel in directly?
I like the removable/replaceable aspect of this design, but it would probably be virtually weight neutral to sew in the stove jack and put a roll-up flap cover over it and perhaps a bit more durable. I guess the only disadvantage here would be if you KNOW you won't be bringing the stove, you save the weight of the jack material, but that is pretty minor in the grand scheme.
Any further thoughts on this?
Thanks for the pics!
-Brandon
Post by: Shawn Ryan on January 28, 2019, 05:22:24 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 28, 2019, 06:56:27 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 28, 2019, 07:00:27 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 28, 2019, 07:02:34 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 28, 2019, 07:04:40 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 28, 2019, 07:10:05 PM
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 29, 2019, 05:19:33 AM
the stove jack material I Have looks about the same.
What is the smallest edge margin between the stove hole and the tent material?
Thanks Flounderz.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 29, 2019, 05:47:03 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on February 18, 2019, 09:13:39 AM
I have some time lapse videos that I may try to load... but there’s some plumbers crack in the best one... so we’ll see.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190218/2eedaba9dd7780303e0636ed483dca13.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190218/a613982b7ceeb3dbb0e1e09cd08cbf85.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190218/4e50ec24b609193d17a50abdbf046813.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: MLHSN on February 18, 2019, 09:31:36 PM
Post by: luvmystang67 on February 19, 2019, 01:45:34 AM
Here’s my time lapse on cutting the panels. I cut a total of 12 of these. Took me about 5.5 hours to mark and make cuts.
Not sure if this automatically embeds or not.
Sorry about the plumbers crack or as the Brits say “Builders Bum”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 19, 2019, 05:14:24 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 26, 2019, 08:36:48 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on February 26, 2019, 10:22:41 AM
You have much use for a tipi on that side of the pond? You planning some backcountry rabbit hunting trips?
Its a winter project... I'll bring it home with me!
Otherwise... no, not really... :'(
Post by: luvmystang67 on July 08, 2019, 05:31:57 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 08, 2019, 05:54:04 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on July 08, 2019, 06:09:37 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on July 08, 2019, 06:20:48 AM
Also, I forgot to leave seam margin at the peak, so my peak seams are a little funky and it kind of spirals round a center point. It makes getting the top taut a little challenging. I'm going to take up some slack and fold down and sew over some extra when I put the stove jack in tonight.
I think a 6" longer pole and that will perk things up a bit.
Catenary curves seemed to work alright. I'm generally pleased. Weighs about 4 lbs before stove jack and center pole. I'll buy a new center pole in the US when I return.
Post by: luvmystang67 on July 08, 2019, 06:41:49 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: CoryTDF on July 08, 2019, 03:13:09 PM
Post by: luvmystang67 on July 09, 2019, 08:10:40 AM
So cool man!!! Happy to see how will it turned out!
Yeah thanks, it was a ton of work really. Although, I did have to learn to sew before doing it, so there was a steep learning curve.
I used a rolled hem foot on the base last night and saved myself a ton of time. I also installed the stove jack, which I think turned out pretty well. Excited for elk hunting now!
The material is a silpoly PU4000, so I hope we'll have some good waterproofness and limited stretch. I bought a titanium goat wifi stove on here from another member, so I'm excited to see how it transpires.
Still, I'll definitely buy my next tipi and stick to small projects, 1 man tents or tarps in the future.
Post by: h20hunter on July 09, 2019, 08:12:46 AM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on July 09, 2019, 08:36:15 AM
Post by: CoryTDF on July 09, 2019, 11:46:08 AM
LOL that was me you bought the stove from. It will work great for your set up. You will probably get too hot if you load the stove up heavy.So cool man!!! Happy to see how will it turned out!
Yeah thanks, it was a ton of work really. Although, I did have to learn to sew before doing it, so there was a steep learning curve.
I used a rolled hem foot on the base last night and saved myself a ton of time. I also installed the stove jack, which I think turned out pretty well. Excited for elk hunting now!
The material is a silpoly PU4000, so I hope we'll have some good waterproofness and limited stretch. I bought a titanium goat wifi stove on here from another member, so I'm excited to see how it transpires.
Still, I'll definitely buy my next tipi and stick to small projects, 1 man tents or tarps in the future.
Post by: luvmystang67 on July 10, 2019, 05:52:00 AM
LOL that was me you bought the stove from. It will work great for your set up. You will probably get too hot if you load the stove up heavy.So cool man!!! Happy to see how will it turned out!
Yeah thanks, it was a ton of work really. Although, I did have to learn to sew before doing it, so there was a steep learning curve.
I used a rolled hem foot on the base last night and saved myself a ton of time. I also installed the stove jack, which I think turned out pretty well. Excited for elk hunting now!
The material is a silpoly PU4000, so I hope we'll have some good waterproofness and limited stretch. I bought a titanium goat wifi stove on here from another member, so I'm excited to see how it transpires.
Still, I'll definitely buy my next tipi and stick to small projects, 1 man tents or tarps in the future.
Shoot, sorry, I need to start paying more attention. I forget who I got what from all the time or just names generally. My bad, thanks a ton again. I'm REALLY STOKED about the stove!
Post by: CoryTDF on July 10, 2019, 08:04:31 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on November 21, 2019, 03:05:12 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191121/db0a90b1150cbc715f521002dafe56f1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191121/54e0f3a7d62160ba5cac1509ef52f2d5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191121/90b82c633481c1ef65b85fc8107fa577.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Fl0und3rz on November 21, 2019, 03:13:39 PM
Post by: CoryTDF on November 22, 2019, 11:06:37 AM
Post by: kselkhunter on November 22, 2019, 11:49:38 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on November 22, 2019, 12:07:13 PM
How is that stove working out for you?
Stove is working out great. It is my first backpacking style stove, so I assume any challenges I have are common to all of them (which may or may not be true).
I'd love a slightly tighter seal between the stovepipe and the top of the stove, not sure how I can realistically do this, but it can get a little smokey.
The top and bottom panel are a little heat warped, which makes it difficult to assemble. I wish they'd heat them at the shop before they send them out to ensure they stick closer to the right shape.
It puts out a ton of heat, but when its out its out. I've started stacking rocks under and around it to try to preserve some of the heat made. This is just a new strategy of mine, no fault of the stove.
I do think I should get a spark arrestor for it, when it takes off it really gets blazing and I'm afraid a spark is going to land back on my tent.
Otherwise, my only complaint is that it gets too hot. Its slick as sh*t for drying stuff out and staying warm. Makes the tipi a really nice place to come back to or eat dinner in the rain. Something bout a fire...
Post by: kselkhunter on November 22, 2019, 12:19:27 PM
Definitely get a spark arrestor. Not sure what brand stove you have but most stove companies sell spares.
Some of the smoke issues can also be exacerbated by lack of airflow. I like to set mine up where the front of stove is facing the zipper of the tipi, and keep the zipper an inch or two open to make sure enough airflow gets in for the stove.
The rock-stacking under and around the stove helps hold heat longer. But unfortunately a titanium stove just doesn't hold heat. I use mine to dry my clothes every night, melt snow if I'm snow camping, and to warm up the tipi a bit before climbing into my sleeping bag. I don't get up during the night to keep it stoked....too much work and hampers my sleep cycle.
Post by: luvmystang67 on November 22, 2019, 01:28:59 PM
The smokey thing is common to many titanium backcountry stoves. I have a different brand stove, and same issue. It gets worse as they get older with more use as things don't fit as tightly over time. Sometimes I get smoke coming out from around the bolts/nuts that hold it together, other times from the creases on the sides. Typically opening the door of the stove a crack to increase airflow solves it. Once the stove gets roaring the smoke usually stops. I have more smoke issues if I have the rain cap on top the stove pipe as that causes more draft issues.
Definitely get a spark arrestor. Not sure what brand stove you have but most stove companies sell spares.
Some of the smoke issues can also be exacerbated by lack of airflow. I like to set mine up where the front of stove is facing the zipper of the tipi, and keep the zipper an inch or two open to make sure enough airflow gets in for the stove.
The rock-stacking under and around the stove helps hold heat longer. But unfortunately a titanium stove just doesn't hold heat. I use mine to dry my clothes every night, melt snow if I'm snow camping, and to warm up the tipi a bit before climbing into my sleeping bag. I don't get up during the night to keep it stoked....too much work and hampers my sleep cycle.
I have the same issue at night. If i cut larger pieces they'll burn for longer, but I have to constantly tend to the damper. It needs a lot of air to get going, but I need to be there quickly to prevent it from "taking off". When it gets going it sounds like a jet and it'll get red hot halfway up the stove pipe if you dont' pay attention to it. Last thing I need is for that to happen mid-sleep.
Its a titanium goat wifi stove. They don't have them posted on their website right now (not sure if they're still in business or just reorganizing or what). I've meant to order a stove-side spark arrestor from them.
Still its a HUGE step up from no stove/heat. Boils water easily. I have found that I like to bring a small foldable handsaw now to cut larger pieces for it.
Post by: CoryTDF on November 22, 2019, 01:57:10 PM
The smokey thing is common to many titanium backcountry stoves. I have a different brand stove, and same issue. It gets worse as they get older with more use as things don't fit as tightly over time. Sometimes I get smoke coming out from around the bolts/nuts that hold it together, other times from the creases on the sides. Typically opening the door of the stove a crack to increase airflow solves it. Once the stove gets roaring the smoke usually stops. I have more smoke issues if I have the rain cap on top the stove pipe as that causes more draft issues.
Definitely get a spark arrestor. Not sure what brand stove you have but most stove companies sell spares.
Some of the smoke issues can also be exacerbated by lack of airflow. I like to set mine up where the front of stove is facing the zipper of the tipi, and keep the zipper an inch or two open to make sure enough airflow gets in for the stove.
The rock-stacking under and around the stove helps hold heat longer. But unfortunately a titanium stove just doesn't hold heat. I use mine to dry my clothes every night, melt snow if I'm snow camping, and to warm up the tipi a bit before climbing into my sleeping bag. I don't get up during the night to keep it stoked....too much work and hampers my sleep cycle.
I have the same issue at night. If i cut larger pieces they'll burn for longer, but I have to constantly tend to the damper. It needs a lot of air to get going, but I need to be there quickly to prevent it from "taking off". When it gets going it sounds like a jet and it'll get red hot halfway up the stove pipe if you dont' pay attention to it. Last thing I need is for that to happen mid-sleep.
Its a titanium goat wifi stove. They don't have them posted on their website right now (not sure if they're still in business or just reorganizing or what). I've meant to order a stove-side spark arrestor from them.
Still its a HUGE step up from no stove/heat. Boils water easily. I have found that I like to bring a small foldable handsaw now to cut larger pieces for it.
Heard a rumor that the founder of Ti-Goat died. Not sure if it's true but I am guessing it is as he never returned my email after I reviewed that stove for him.
I am surprised that you had a warping issue with it? I burned it in really hot on it's first burn so it should have held shape nicely and been pretty easy to assemble after that. Look for "fat wood" if you can find it. Fat wood is the center of most trees and can be found by kicking apart rotten logs or often times it is the only standing part of a rotten tree. You will get much longer burn times out of "fat wood" than sticks or chopped wood.
I am heading up tonight to test out 3 different Tipi's and titanium stoves. Should be a cool weekend of camping.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 26, 2019, 02:08:51 PM
Post by: luvmystang67 on November 30, 2019, 03:33:57 PM
Yes on the titanium stove but I'd ditch the propane stove with the 20# cylinder. Besides not being certified for inside use with the cylinder they create a ton of condensation issues with the propane byproduct being water.
This was when I had it set up next to the car as more of a base camp (note the cot). I have the propane heater in there for chilly mornings when i want a quick heat boost while I'm getting dressed. In backpack/spike camp mode, I would not have that.
The propane heater works a treat on chilly mornings, especially when morale is low.
Post by: madcow41 on February 20, 2020, 09:09:48 AM
Post by: bornhunter on February 20, 2020, 10:09:57 AM