Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: KB88 on April 09, 2019, 06:30:10 AM
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I am ready to buy my first semi auto 3.5” shotgun, after 12 years of hunting pumps. My question to all of you, does the 3.5 demo auto rock your shoulder pretty bad? I have a Winn Sxp in 3.5 and after a long day of 3.5s I can feel it. To top it off in the last 2 months I am developing a shoulder pain while doing everyday activities (work related).
Let me know how you fair with it?
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Yes, it is noticeably stouter recoil. You also don't need 3.5" to kill anything you can legally shoot with it in this state. Tons of big geese are brought down with 3".
If I had a bad shoulder or was recoil sensitive I wouldn't hesitate to use 3" on geese and 2 3/4" on ducks.
That said, you could always buy a 3.5" gun and have the capability to shoot anything.
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Yeah no need for 3.5 shells. I shoot 2 3/4 for ducks and upland. Occasionally I'll shoot 3 inch shells for jump shooting or geese. I do have a 3.5 inch sx3 but I have never ran any through it.
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My question would be why are you shooting 3 1/2's. Go to 3's. I have an SXP and it kicks like a mule with 3's. I am not a waterfowler just a turkey guy but I can tell you the my Stoeger P350 and Winchester 1300 shooting the same exact turkey loads in 3" doesn't even come close to how much the SXP kicks. The semi some of that recoil will get taken up in the gas operatopm of the action I believe. On the SXP were you using the factory choke. You can buy these extended chokes and most of them are also ported which should take some punch out of the recoil to. Both my P350 and Win 1300 have turkey chokes the 1300 is the only one that is ported. I just got one on my SXP but have not shot it with the choke yet.
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I use 3.5s for geese, as others said, 3” shells will get it done on ducks as long as you’re not sky busting. Sometimes I’ll load a 3.5 as the 3rd shot when I’m duck hunting depending on our decoy setup if I think I’ll have some longer range follow up shots or cripples to swat.
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Like others have already said you don’t “need” 3.5”. However, I do own several shotguns that will accept them. They shoot the smaller stuff well and you always have the option for the larger shell if you want it, etc.
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I love my 3.5 but I only buy 3.5 for turkey or big honker-focused hunts. Anything else is 3". Here lately I've even dropped to 2 3/4 for upland game, or just left the 12 at home and brought out the 20.
That being said, I still haven't bought a semi auto. I don't really see the value. Pumping my shotgun has never slowed me down enough to not get a second shot in, even for teal. You're generally pumping while recovering from the recoil of the first shot anyways. Third shot is generally reserved for cripples with either action.
Seems like my friends who shoot semis have more maintenance, spend more up front, and don't really get a lot more value out of it.
Not trying to talk you out of it, just trying to offer another perspective. They're sexy, but they're expensive.
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I use one of these chokes when shooting 3.5 or any other size: http://www.wadwizard.com/index.htm
It definitely softens the punch to your shoulder especially those turkey loads and makes the shot more effective at longer ranges. I grew tired of the mule kicking my shoulder with every shot. When you age and degenerative joint disease of the shoulder sets in that recoil definitely becomes a problem. These chokes solved the problem.
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As others have said, 3.5" isn't really needed. I stopped shooting them years ago and never looked back. You can still kill plenty of honkers with 3", just be smart with your shots and shoot them in the face :tup:
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I don't shoot 3-1/2" to much, as I can work them in close and kill them fine with 3". If your looking for a 3-1/2" gun, you gas auto loaders will have the lightest felt recoil. Your inertia guns will kick a bit more. I prefer inertia though, as they are super simple to clean and maintain. They swing fast. I shoot the Benelli M2, 3" only & SBEII which shoots 2-3/4" to 3-1/2". My boys shoot the Winchester SX3 & SX4 shotgun. Cost was the factor for my boys as the Winchesters are about half the price of the Benelli.
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From someone who has had shoulder issues and a couple of surgery's I can tell you that
3 1/2s aren't any fun to shoot any more. Especially a turkey load. It's worse every year. I went to 3" but as I age even those will wear on you. I used to hunt waterfowl with a couple guys that only used 20 gauge. Ducks and geese. They could really rock those birds. Thinking about going that route myself.
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I don't shoot 3-1/2" to much, as I can work them in close and kill them fine with 3". If your looking for a 3-1/2" gun, you gas auto loaders will have the lightest felt recoil. Your inertia guns will kick a bit more. I prefer inertia though, as they are super simple to clean and maintain. They swing fast. I shoot the Benelli M2, 3" only & SBEII which shoots 2-3/4" to 3-1/2". My boys shoot the Winchester SX3 & SX4 shotgun. Cost was the factor for my boys as the Winchesters are about half the price of the Benelli.
I agree with h2o, no need for the 3.5", 3" and 2.75" will do the job. Inertia guns do kick more, I've had three and sold them all because of the recoil. I'm using a Beretta 391 or a Baikal (don't laugh it works) in the field. I also have a shoulder issue it cant hold up the big shells. Sporting Clays is my game and I get in 4-5K rounds a year. Now even my 12 GA O/U is giving my pain, I switched to my 20 GA O/U last year. If I'm shooting a course with long targets I'll grab my back-up a Win SX3 sporting.
:twocents:
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I remember when Mossberg came out with the 12ga 3.5" in a pump in the 90's. We bought one and I took it to an "end of the year" high school class party. We were shooting clays and I handed a kid the shotgun. The first round was a low base 8 shot and the second was a 3.5" T shot.
The kid missed the first shot, pumped it and then let go the 3.5. It was one of the funniest things I have seen, he thought the shotgun blew up on him, he grabbed his shoulder and thought he busted his collar bone. He was done shooting for awhile.
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I remember when Mossberg came out with the 12ga 3.5" in a pump in the 90's. We bought one and I took it to an "end of the year" high school class party. We were shooting clays and I handed a kid the shotgun. The first round was a low base 8 shot and the second was a 3.5" T shot.
The kid missed the first shot, pumped it and then let go the 3.5. It was one of the funniest things I have seen, he thought the shotgun blew up on him, he grabbed his shoulder and thought he busted his collar bone. He was done shooting for awhile.
:chuckle:
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I shoot both semi and pump in 3 and 3.5.
The problem I have with the 3.5 semis is that they get expensive quick and also tend to be a half pound heavier. With a less expensive shotgun I feel better about taking it out in the marsh or near saltwater. Pumps are also better if you need to break it down in the field.
As for 3.5 I like having it for public if it is busy and I don't get many good shots. But if I was on private shooting over decoys I would be fine with 2.75 or a 20 gauge.
So I think it depends on where and what you shoot. If you do a lot of trap I would definitely go with the semi.
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I own 4 pump guns, not in love with the sxp so I’m headed to the dark side. I know some autos that shoot 3.5 struggle to shoot 2.75 light loads. I agree 3’s are enough but if I’m paying auto loader price I’m going to buy a gun that’s going to take whatever I feed it.
I’ll have to shoot some inertia vs gas autos I suppose.
No trap ever, just waterfowl and upland. Thanks for input fellas
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I have a gas operated browning semi auto and an inertia Benelli sbe2. Without a doubt the inertia kicks harder. It’s also the gun I prefer and use the most.
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3.5 inch shells are for guys who can't decoy birds or can't shoot. I have never shot one and most people I hunt with don't use them either. My brother in law hunted big honks for 3 years with 2 3/4 shells because he got a deal on the shells. If I had bad shoulder problems I would look at a gas gun and maybe even look at a 20 gauge. I have never tried them but Boss Shot shell claim that their 2 3/4 shell hit like a ton of bricks and it's supposed to help reduce felt recoil. If I had a bad shoulder I would look at everything even if it costs a little more to stay out there hunting. Good luck and I hope you can find the right combo for your shoulder.
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+1 EWU
I do my waterfowling with 2 1/2" shells with either 7/8 oz of iTX 6's or 1 oz of Bismuth 5's and all my hunting is on public lands both fresh and saltwater.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/KP88Nj.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/922/A1jnMK.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/vLhYWI.jpg)
Shoot the ones you KNOW you can kill, pass on the ones you THINK you can kill.
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AWS beautiful gun
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I wouldn’t buy a gun for waterfowl that doesn’t have the ablilty to chamber 3 1/2 however I never use them. I just don’t like the idea of limiting myself but I also learned my first year of waterfowling that there is no need to beat yourself up when 3 inch is plenty... heck even if you are sky busting lol.
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I would not recommend the Remington 11-87 Super Magnum Express. Mine does not always cycle 3.5" turkey loads.
I like my Winchester SX3, but I am unsure of it handling all loads. You're welcome to test shoot both if you want.
Like others have said, you don't need to shoot 3.5" shells. You can shoot 3" shells, switch to hevi-shot, have the barrel ported, buy a ported choke, learn to shoot better, get a better recoil pad, etc. No sense beating yourself up.
The only reason I shoot 3.5" shells is for turkey, and that's only a few shots per year.
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3.5 inch shells are for guys who can't decoy birds or can't shoot. I have never shot one
Lol well you should try shooting one. They're a lot of fun.
There are public areas of Western Wa where it's pretty much pass only and you can have constantly changing winds and rain as well.
No one is shooting 100% in those conditions. Why not add more pellets to the air?
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3.5 inch shells are for guys who can't decoy birds or can't shoot. I have never shot one
Lol well you should try shooting one. They're a lot of fun.
There are public areas of Western Wa where it's pretty much pass only and you can have constantly changing winds and rain as well.
No one is shooting 100% in those conditions. Why not add more pellets to the air?
I guess I should say I have shot 3 1/2 but don't see a reason for it. My current gun is only a 3 inch gun. I have shot 3.5 for ducks and turkeys when I was young and dumb but see no reason for it anymore.
Reading what you say about Western Wa all I hear is we sky blast because no body can work birds so why not have more pellets in the air? I enjoy the art of decoying birds and want them at 20-30 yards and pass a lot of shot I see other guys take. If they don't get in that range I let them go and they won that battle but to each their own.
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There are also any number of public areas with lots of birds where you will rarely see another hunter and the ducks decoy readily. It is a lot more fun to hunt those areas than to have to deal with places that have had the birds blasted so much. But then you actually have to put some effort into finding them when it is easier to BUY a bigger gun than the others and try and scratch down a few high flyers.
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3.5 inch shells are for guys who can't decoy birds or can't shoot. I have never shot one
Lol well you should try shooting one. They're a lot of fun.
There are public areas of Western Wa where it's pretty much pass only and you can have constantly changing winds and rain as well.
No one is shooting 100% in those conditions. Why not add more pellets to the air?
I guess I should say I have shot 3 1/2 but don't see a reason for it. My current gun is only a 3 inch gun. I have shot 3.5 for ducks and turkeys when I was young and dumb but see no reason for it anymore.
Reading what you say about Western Wa all I hear is we sky blast because no body can work birds so why not have more pellets in the air? I enjoy the art of decoying birds and want them at 20-30 yards and pass a lot of shot I see other guys take. If they don't get in that range I let them go and they won that battle but to each their own.
Has nothing to do with being able to work them. There are areas where it is basically like a corridor and they are spooked by someone else when they enter. They aren't stopping for anything at that point. So you can either take your spot on the exit or drive 2 1/2 hours home.
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There are also any number of public areas with lots of birds where you will rarely see another hunter and the ducks decoy readily. It is a lot more fun to hunt those areas than to have to deal with places that have had the birds blasted so much. But then you actually have to put some effort into finding them when it is easier to BUY a bigger gun than the others and try and scratch down a few high flyers.
In Western Wa that isn't a realistic solution. You would be telling some people to not hunt a spot 15 minutes away and instead drive 3-4 hours. For a 9-5r with a family that is just is not realistic. Or maybe you are assuming everyone has a boat?
It's very easy to buy a 3.5. You can get a used one for less than $300. It's not like 3.5 decreases your odds so I don't get why some people are so bothered by them. They are overkill for decoying ducks in a tranquil setting but in a coastal walk-in with 45 mph winds yea you want one.
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3.5 inch shells are for guys who can't decoy birds or can't shoot. I have never shot one
Lol well you should try shooting one. They're a lot of fun.
There are public areas of Western Wa where it's pretty much pass only and you can have constantly changing winds and rain as well.
No one is shooting 100% in those conditions. Why not add more pellets to the air?
I guess I should say I have shot 3 1/2 but don't see a reason for it. My current gun is only a 3 inch gun. I have shot 3.5 for ducks and turkeys when I was young and dumb but see no reason for it anymore.
Reading what you say about Western Wa all I hear is we sky blast because no body can work birds so why not have more pellets in the air? I enjoy the art of decoying birds and want them at 20-30 yards and pass a lot of shot I see other guys take. If they don't get in that range I let them go and they won that battle but to each their own.
Has nothing to do with being able to work them. There are areas where it is basically like a corridor and they are spooked by someone else when they enter. They aren't stopping for anything at that point. So you can either take your spot on the exit or drive 2 1/2 hours home.
I shouldn't cast stones but I would honestly scout more and find a spot where that wasn't the case. You'll never catch me at a spot like that. We all deal with turds who skyblast on public land but I can still get what I want out of the hunt which is finishing birds. Most people shoot those passing areas because they don't want to put in the work behind the windshield or hiking in farther. Might not be your case because I have no clue where you hunt or who you are.
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There are also any number of public areas with lots of birds where you will rarely see another hunter and the ducks decoy readily. It is a lot more fun to hunt those areas than to have to deal with places that have had the birds blasted so much. But then you actually have to put some effort into finding them when it is easier to BUY a bigger gun than the others and try and scratch down a few high flyers.
In Western Wa that isn't a realistic solution. You would be telling people to not hunt a spot 15 minutes away and instead drive 3-4 hours. For a 9-5r with a family that is just is not realistic. Or maybe you are assuming everyone has a boat?
It's very easy to buy a 3.5. You can get a used one for less than $300. It's not like 3.5 decreases your odds so I don't get why some people are so bothered by them. They are overkill for decoying ducks in a tranquil setting but in a coastal walk-in with 45 mph winds yea you want one.
I work 9-5, have a family and drive 3-4 hours to hunt, what's your point?
A couple reason why I'm against 3.5 inch shells. First, the post about a dude with a bad shoulder haha. All these guys jumping in here say get a 3.5 inch gun for a dude with a bad shoulder is crazy. My original post is helpful for someone who may have shoulder problems. Second, when a gun throws in 3.5 inch shells they go well now I can shoot farther out. I saw an article I believe at Field and Stream that talks about your success rate and yardage. Like everyone would assume the farther the bird is out the less of a chance you are at killing it which in turns leave more wounded birds. I hunt with a buddy who likes to shoot 3.5 inch at big geese and I'm fine with it and would never mock him for it. He doesn't kill any more geese than he would with 3 inch and really probably the same amount if he used 2 3/4 but it gives him confidence. I hunt high winds all the time and still shoot 3's or 2 3/4. It's all about shot selection.
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I shouldn't cast stones but I would honestly I would scout more and find a spot where that wasn't the case. You'll never catch me at a spot like that. We all deal with *censored*s who skyblast on public land but I can still get what I want out of the hunt which is finishing birds. Most people shoot those passing areas because they don't want to put in the work behind the windshield or hiking in farther. Might not be your case because I have no clue where you hunt or who you are.
The coastal spots are not hundreds of acres where pass shooters are just being lazy or not looking at maps. A lot of these areas are heavily developed so you are driving through burbs to get to them. Some are not only tiny but also abandoned by the state. There is also no way of knowing if someone is already there so you can't just drive from spot to spot until you find one that is empty. On a Saturday you could drive to every spot and not find an empty one. It can be pretty rough and you want every pellet you can put in the air. Some of us go out there for other activities and then duck hunt on the side. So it's not like we are all starting with a completely open weekend and a boat in the garage.
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I work 9-5, have a family and drive 3-4 hours to hunt, what's your point?
If someone has family obligations they can't just take every free weekend to drive 6-8 hours. They might only have a free morning and in such cases the local wetland is the only way they will be hunting. So it's either public warfare or nothing.
I saw an article I believe at Field and Stream that talks about your success rate and yardage. Like everyone would assume the farther the bird is out the less of a chance you are at killing it which in turns leave more wounded birds. I hunt with a buddy who likes to shoot 3.5 inch at big geese and I'm fine with it and would never mock him for it. He doesn't kill any more geese than he would with 3 inch and really probably the same amount if he used 2 3/4 but it gives him confidence. I hunt high winds all the time and still shoot 3's or 2 3/4. It's all about shot selection.
Yes the farther out a bird is the less chance you have of killing it. Odds of killing an 60 yard bird are much worse than a 6 yard bird.
More pellets = increased kill probability assuming everything is equal. Go to tungsten or bismuth and that still remains true. It's not like you are forced to always use 3.5. Like I said earlier I don't use it for decoying ducks. But for turkey and crowded public you might as well shoot the extra pellets if everything else is equal.
But 3.5 isn't for everyone, there are definitely people that flinch on the recoil and would be better shooters with 3 or even 2.75. There is some video of a guy shooting 3.5 turkey and busting his nose.
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I work 9-5, have a family and drive 3-4 hours to hunt, what's your point?
If someone has family obligations they can't just take every free weekend to drive 6-8 hours. They might only have a free morning and in such cases the local wetland is the only way they will be hunting. So it's either public warfare or nothing.
I saw an article I believe at Field and Stream that talks about your success rate and yardage. Like everyone would assume the farther the bird is out the less of a chance you are at killing it which in turns leave more wounded birds. I hunt with a buddy who likes to shoot 3.5 inch at big geese and I'm fine with it and would never mock him for it. He doesn't kill any more geese than he would with 3 inch and really probably the same amount if he used 2 3/4 but it gives him confidence. I hunt high winds all the time and still shoot 3's or 2 3/4. It's all about shot selection.
Yes the farther out a bird is the less chance you have of killing it. Odds of killing an 60 yard bird are much worse than a 6 yard bird.
More pellets = increased kill probability assuming everything is equal. Go to tungsten or bismuth and that still remains true. It's not like you are forced to always use 3.5. Like I said earlier I don't use it for decoying ducks. But for turkey and crowded public you might as well shoot the extra pellets if everything else is equal.
But 3.5 isn't for everyone, there are definitely people that flinch on the recoil and would be better shooters with 3 or even 2.75. There is some video of a guy shooting 3.5 turkey and busting his nose.
I don't know what your obligations are and don't want to make judgement but if something is your passion you find time. I live within 3 hours of good hunting and feel lucky about that, but if I lived farther I would go less but still find the time to make a good hunt or two. If you feel more confident in your 3.5 shells that's awesome, I still don't believe they are needed unless you're sky blasting then yep every pellet matters. Please keep buying them because they cost more and that's good for economy.
You're right there are more pellets in a 3.5 inch shell than a 3 inch but if you're shooting at 30 yards it really doesn't matter that much. Shooting a bigger shell also includes bigger recoil which makes it tougher to get on a second shot. I don't recommend them because people think more pellets means I can shoot farther out which injures more birds. If those birds you clip on the coast sails how do you retrieve them? If you're taking the same shot no matter what shot shell you're using than you're doing it right.
I'm hunting the "Wild Turkey Capital of Washington" this next week and shooting 2 3/4 shot, why? Because I enjoy working birds in close and that's what I want out of my hunt. In 25 years of hunting I have yet seen a situation where I thought "Hey I would have got that bird if I was using a bigger shot shell".
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I really have no debate with shorter shells. My deadliest shotty was a worn out 2 3/4 wing master fixed choke I went to the 3/12 when they switched to steel shot figuring i could open up the choke a bit and deliver more pellets on target. Steel didn't hit as hard as lead and I thought a couple more on target wouldn't hurt. Never increased my range at all. When steel first came out it sucked.
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If you feel more confident in your 3.5 shells that's awesome, I still don't believe they are needed unless you're sky blasting then yep every pellet matters. Please keep buying them because they cost more and that's good for economy.
Well sky blasting implies people just randomly shooting at birds regardless of range. I don't agree with that but it happens and people were doing it before 3.5 existed. There are public areas where a lot of shots are at 40/50 on flying birds that already went over someone else's decoys. Not ideal but 3.5 is useful there.
If those birds you clip on the coast sails how do you retrieve them? If you're taking the same shot no matter what shot shell you're using than you're doing it right.
There are spots where if you don't drop the duck from the sky then it will go in a slough or be a huge pita to retrieve. Got to be really careful in some of those areas since the mud can be very dangerous. You won't get them all. I agree that too many people think 3.5 automatically means more range but that isn't why I buy it. I want more hits in the kill zone. You can probably find hot 3.5 that has more powder / fewer pellets to extend the range but I'm not looking for it.
I'm hunting the "Wild Turkey Capital of Washington" this next week and shooting 2 3/4 shot, why? Because I enjoy working birds in close and that's what I want out of my hunt. In 25 years of hunting I have yet seen a situation where I thought "Hey I would have got that bird if I was using a bigger shot shell".
But you have probably passed on turkeys that were at 50/60 yards that someone from the West side would have taken and that is where the 3.5 can make the difference. Since you are in Spokane it isn't as far of a drive which lets you scout and be more selective. If I lived that close I'd probably take a bow or ultra light semi 20 most of the time.
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To me the 3.5" magnum is much like a longrange big game rifle, buying the ability to take game at longer ranges rather than learning the skills to get closer to game.
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“does the 3.5 demo auto rock your shoulder pretty bad?”
I shoot the Berta A400 and cant say enough about it. Great recoil reduction system which enhances comfort, control and target acquisition. Beretta claims up to 70% recoil reduction. Never had a problem with any load or mixing loads. Really enjoy shooting it. Their pretty expensive, but well worth it..IMO.
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I work 9-5, have a family and drive 3-4 hours to hunt, what's your point?
If someone has family obligations they can't just take every free weekend to drive 6-8 hours. They might only have a free morning and in such cases the local wetland is the only way they will be hunting. So it's either public warfare or nothing.
I saw an article I believe at Field and Stream that talks about your success rate and yardage. Like everyone would assume the farther the bird is out the less of a chance you are at killing it which in turns leave more wounded birds. I hunt with a buddy who likes to shoot 3.5 inch at big geese and I'm fine with it and would never mock him for it. He doesn't kill any more geese than he would with 3 inch and really probably the same amount if he used 2 3/4 but it gives him confidence. I hunt high winds all the time and still shoot 3's or 2 3/4. It's all about shot selection.
Yes the farther out a bird is the less chance you have of killing it. Odds of killing an 60 yard bird are much worse than a 6 yard bird.
More pellets = increased kill probability assuming everything is equal. Go to tungsten or bismuth and that still remains true. It's not like you are forced to always use 3.5. Like I said earlier I don't use it for decoying ducks. But for turkey and crowded public you might as well shoot the extra pellets if everything else is equal.
But 3.5 isn't for everyone, there are definitely people that flinch on the recoil and would be better shooters with 3 or even 2.75. There is some video of a guy shooting 3.5 turkey and busting his nose.
I don't know what your obligations are and don't want to make judgement but if something is your passion you find time. I live within 3 hours of good hunting and feel lucky about that, but if I lived farther I would go less but still find the time to make a good hunt or two. If you feel more confident in your 3.5 shells that's awesome, I still don't believe they are needed unless you're sky blasting then yep every pellet matters. Please keep buying them because they cost more and that's good for economy.
You're right there are more pellets in a 3.5 inch shell than a 3 inch but if you're shooting at 30 yards it really doesn't matter that much. Shooting a bigger shell also includes bigger recoil which makes it tougher to get on a second shot. I don't recommend them because people think more pellets means I can shoot farther out which injures more birds. If those birds you clip on the coast sails how do you retrieve them? If you're taking the same shot no matter what shot shell you're using than you're doing it right.
I'm hunting the "Wild Turkey Capital of Washington" this next week and shooting 2 3/4 shot, why? Because I enjoy working birds in close and that's what I want out of my hunt. In 25 years of hunting I have yet seen a situation where I thought "Hey I would have got that bird if I was using a bigger shot shell".
I hunt turkeys exclusively with 3.5" shells.
I think about 95% of my turkeys could have been cleanly killed with a trap load of number 8's since most are within 15-20 yards.
But aint nobody taking my 3.5" shells! :tup:
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Konrad 50 yards at passing ducks is sky blasting and if not it’s walking the line. Don’t believe me stand underneath a 150 ft tree and look up.
You’re 100% right I won’t take a 60 yard shot on a turkey and I encourage you to become a better hunter and sportsman so you don’t have to take those shots too. Please stop using excuses for taking questionable shots, everyone has been in the situation when we didn’t have a boat and didn’t live close to our favorite areas but still practiced ethical shooting.
Maybe my stance on 3.5 wasn’t made very clear. I don’t hate 3.5 but I don’t think they are needed and too many people think well bigger shell equals more range. This is incorrect because of ones skill. One can not consistently make shots at 50 plus yards. They may not even realize they hit the bird but the bird flies a mile away and dies or is wounded. I know multiple people that have to walk with their dogs on leashes because they can almost pick up a full limit of wounded birds on the walk in. Now if you like the extra payload of a bigger shell and an ethical range like Dan-o that’s awesome and it’s how the shells should be used. I still know guys who shoot 10 gauges.
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Konrad 50 yards at passing ducks is sky blasting and if not it’s walking the line. Don’t believe me stand underneath a 150 ft tree and look up.
I know exactly where 50 yards is. I have a 75 yard archery target in my back yard.
You’re 100% right I won’t take a 60 yard shot on a turkey and I encourage you to become a better hunter and sportsman so you don’t have to take those shots too. Please stop using excuses for taking questionable shots, everyone has been in the situation when we didn’t have a boat and didn’t live close to our favorite areas but still practiced ethical shooting.
Well there you go being insulting again. Maybe I should assume that anyone who doesn't buy 3.5 is just poor and has to make excuses. How does that sound?
I use a carlson turkey choke and with a 3.5 shell and I can put multiple hits on the neck of a turkey target at 60 yards every single time. It isn't questionable. I'll do it 10 times in a row if you want to pay for the ammo. I haven't taken a turkey at 60 but I wouldn't hesitate. I'll probably have a bow next week which is more likely to wound a turkey at 20 yards than a properly patterned shotgun at 60. But I'm guessing you wouldn't insult me over that.
I know multiple people that have to walk with their dogs on leashes because they can almost pick up a full limit of wounded birds on the walk in. Now if you like the extra payload of a bigger shell and an ethical range like Dan-o that’s awesome and it’s how the shells should be used. I still know guys who shoot 10 gauges.
If you use a 3.5 properly you are less likely to have crippled birds. The guys that just shoot at anything are probably using the cheapest 2.75 and 3" shells. That's what I see littering most areas.
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Dang, I've only used 2 3/4 hunting ducks and geese,been yrs but what's changed? More pressure,bigger geese,..
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He probably uses a 416 Cheytac for deer hunting too
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He probably uses a 416 Cheytac for deer hunting too
Who me?
Actually I'm in a gun thread here where I said I would take a 7-08 over a 300 magnum. Only magnum I own is a 22.
This reminds me of a Glock thread where the people that don't own one really, really want you to know why they didn't buy one. Kind of weird if you ask me.
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Dang, I've only used 2 3/4 hunting ducks and geese,been yrs but what's changed? More pressure,bigger geese,..
Me too. Too many 3" shells give me a headache.
Geese and ducks both have gotten way bigger and tougher. I blame climate change.
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Konrad 50 yards at passing ducks is sky blasting and if not it’s walking the line. Don’t believe me stand underneath a 150 ft tree and look up.
I know exactly where 50 yards is. I have a 75 yard archery target in my back yard.
You’re 100% right I won’t take a 60 yard shot on a turkey and I encourage you to become a better hunter and sportsman so you don’t have to take those shots too. Please stop using excuses for taking questionable shots, everyone has been in the situation when we didn’t have a boat and didn’t live close to our favorite areas but still practiced ethical shooting.
Well there you go being insulting again. Maybe I should assume that anyone who doesn't buy 3.5 is just poor and has to make excuses. How does that sound?
I use a carlson turkey choke and with a 3.5 shell and I can put multiple hits on the neck of a turkey target at 60 yards every single time. It isn't questionable. I'll do it 10 times in a row if you want to pay for the ammo. I haven't taken a turkey at 60 but I wouldn't hesitate. I'll probably have a bow next week which is more likely to wound a turkey at 20 yards than a properly patterned shotgun at 60. But I'm guessing you wouldn't insult me over that.
I know multiple people that have to walk with their dogs on leashes because they can almost pick up a full limit of wounded birds on the walk in. Now if you like the extra payload of a bigger shell and an ethical range like Dan-o that’s awesome and it’s how the shells should be used. I still know guys who shoot 10 gauges.
If you use a 3.5 properly you are less likely to have crippled birds. The guys that just shoot at anything are probably using the cheapest 2.75 and 3" shells. That's what I see littering most areas.
I have been insulting you are right but only because you talk about how great you are at non ethical shots. Would you take a 600 or 700 yard shot on a buck?. If you want encourage more people to take longer shots feel free but so far it seems like most people on here talk about working birds in close and taking ethical shots. As far as bow hunting goes it seems like a lot of people switched to heads shots because shooting turkeys in the vitals are tough and it leads to higher probably of injured birds.
You asked why people bash 3.5 inch shells and I said because I believe it leads to more unethical shots. Also thank you for proving my point 100%. Good luck on turkeys and if you head west this weekend I’ll buy shells and the beer.
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I have been insulting you are right but only because you talk about how great you are at non ethical shots.
No I actually haven't. I said I wouldn't hesitate to take a turkey at 60 and that isn't bragging. A lot of people are patterning to 60 with the latest ammo/choke combos. It's really nothing to brag about.
Would you take a 600 or 700 yard shot on a buck?.
No I wouldn't. Too much wind variability at that range.
You asked why people bash 3.5 inch shells and I said because I believe it leads to more unethical shots. Also thank you for proving my point 100%. Good luck on turkeys and if you head west this weekend I’ll buy shells and the beer.
I think your concern about 60 yard shots doesn't take modern ammo or chokes into account. I'd suggest reading about it and if you are still skeptical I'd be happy to come by some time when I am out that way and shoot some targets.
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/winchesters-long-beard-xr-turkey-loads-perfect-60-yard-shot/
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I have been insulting you are right but only because you talk about how great you are at non ethical shots.
No I actually haven't. I said I wouldn't hesitate to take a turkey at 60 and that isn't bragging. A lot of people are patterning to 60 with the latest ammo/choke combos. It's really nothing to brag about.
Would you take a 600 or 700 yard shot on a buck?.
No I wouldn't. Too much wind variability at that range.
You asked why people bash 3.5 inch shells and I said because I believe it leads to more unethical shots. Also thank you for proving my point 100%. Good luck on turkeys and if you head west this weekend I’ll buy shells and the beer.
I think your concern about 60 yard shots doesn't take modern ammo or chokes into account. I'd suggest reading about it and if you are still skeptical I'd be happy to come by some time when I am out that way and shoot some targets.
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/winchesters-long-beard-xr-turkey-loads-perfect-60-yard-shot/
I'm not debating whether modern equipment can or can't do something because I'm sure it can. I used to be able to shoot a bow a 100 yards and every time hit a dinner plate but that doesn't mean I should try that shot at an animal. I'll always agree with AWS about his points on 3.5 shells. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. When you extend you're range you increase the likelihood of injuring an animal. Would you disagree with that? With that in mind I talk about working the animals in close and making a more ethical shot. As hunters it is our duty to make those shots ethical and not wound animals. At 60 yards there is less room for error than there is at 20 yards.
If you're comfortable shooting at 60 yards that's awesome. Patterning your gun at a range and taking a shot at an animal at that ranger a little different. For me I would rather let that turkey walk (which I have done hundred of times) than take a long shot.
Back to why I don't like 3.5 shells. I think it gives people the false sense of distance they can shoot, but ones own ability rarely matches the equipment. This may not apply to you but it still holds true for most people out there. I wish more people would work birds in (turkey and waterfowl) than take longer shots.
I already offered to buy shells and beer...
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Back in the day when I did shoot 3.5s through my SBE it killed my shoulder until I bought an aftermarket recoil pad (Limbsaver brand). A noticeable improvement, but it still kicked pretty hard.
One day I woke up and decided I did not need / want to shoot 3.5s any more and life has been beautiful ever since.
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I'm not debating whether modern equipment can or can't do something because I'm sure it can. I used to be able to shoot a bow a 100 yards and every time hit a dinner plate but that doesn't mean I should try that shot at an animal.
Sure but at that range you have the risk of the deer jumping the shot even if you can hit a dinner plate so it's an entirely different scenario.
The 60 yard turkey shot is not the same category or even close.
If you are against 60 yard turkey shots then you should probably be against slug and muzzle hunting. I would bet more people miss on a 100 yard smoothbore shotgun (no scope) shot than on 60 yard turkey.
Back to why I don't like 3.5 shells. I think it gives people the false sense of distance they can shoot, but ones own ability rarely matches the equipment. This may not apply to you but it still holds true for most people out there.
I don't doubt that there are people that buy them for the wrong reasons. Same is true for all kinds of equipment.
But my guess is that the worst shooters are buying the cheapest equipment which isn't 3.5. So I wouldn't make assumptions about people that buy 3.5.
Any public area away from the water (pass shooting) will have far more cheap brand 2.5 and 3 inch shells on the ground. Maybe you have met some people that followed your assumption but I doubt it matches the real world. I would bet that the typical 3.5 hunter bought one for geese and uses 3" most of the time. Probably no where close to your stereotype.
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I'm not debating whether modern equipment can or can't do something because I'm sure it can. I used to be able to shoot a bow a 100 yards and every time hit a dinner plate but that doesn't mean I should try that shot at an animal.
Sure but at that range you have the risk of the deer jumping the shot even if you can hit a dinner plate so it's an entirely different scenario.
The 60 yard turkey shot is not the same category or even close.
If you are against 60 yard turkey shots then you should probably be against slug and muzzle hunting. I would bet more people miss on a 100 yard smoothbore shotgun (no scope) shot than on 60 yard turkey.
Back to why I don't like 3.5 shells. I think it gives people the false sense of distance they can shoot, but ones own ability rarely matches the equipment. This may not apply to you but it still holds true for most people out there.
I don't doubt that there are people that buy them for the wrong reasons. Same is true for all kinds of equipment.
But my guess is that the worst shooters are buying the cheapest equipment which isn't 3.5. So I wouldn't make assumptions about people that buy 3.5.
Any public area away from the water (pass shooting) will have far more cheap brand 2.5 and 3 inch shells on the ground. Maybe you have met some people that followed your assumption but I doubt it matches the real world. I would bet that the typical 3.5 hunter bought one for geese and uses 3" most of the time. Probably no where close to your stereotype.
At 60 yards you have plenty of factors. Does the turkey move, jump or shift his head, is your gun steady. Unless your shooting off sticks a little wiggle can throw off your shotgun quiet a bit. I'm not a fan of shotgun shooting slugs in general and all the people I know who shoot muzzleloaders try to stay around 50-80 yards. With out a scope, like this state requires, it's a tough shot when the yardage increases.
Maybe it's a east side vs west side thing because I see plenty of pass shooter/sky busters with 3.5 inch shells. How do I know this? Because they are normally slobs and I have to pick up after them. I rarely see 2 3/4 inch shells anywhere. It has nothing to do with price and that's something you brought up that makes zero sense. You can buy a 3.5 shotgun for under 400 bucks and the cost in shells isn't drastic. Fiochii for a case of 3" is 119 and 3.5" is 149, that's only 3 bucks a box. I don't anyone pass shooters or people who decoy birds care about a couple of bucks for a box of shells.
If you look at forums and on Facebook you see guys ask what shells size, brand and choke combo they can use for extending ranges. If you don't believe me look for yourself. When people ask about ranges you always see "I shoot a 3.5" because they don't make a 4 inch shell". I don't believe in extending ranges because most people skills aren't that good and they don't take the time to actually practice wing shooting. Extending ranges lead to more injured birds, Do you believe this is untrue?.
I started posting all the evidence of shooting rates and wounding animals as range increase but it was a lot! Dept of Interior and Kansas has good ones about shooting skill and wounding animals. Kansas state out of the 25,000 shot gun hunters they tested not one has hit 6 of 8 clays at 40 yards and DoI stated that at 60 yards 66% of ducks are wounded and not killed. Not all wounded birds don't go un-retrieved but with all my reading I see anywhere from 15-30% of wounded birds aren't retrieved.
Now if you're using 3.5 to help kill ducks inside of those lethal ranges that's awesome but if you're using them to extend range you should reconsider. There's no law against sky blasting or even and exact number to it but it's up to all sportsman to take the most ethical shot possible.
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I think 60 yards is pushing it but 50 with a good choke and 3-1/2 shells can give a good pattern. Don't forget the main point of a 3-1/2 vs a 3 or 2-3/4 is the increased amount of pellets you are throwing down range at the target thus increasing the odds of a successful hit. Why do you think they make the 3-1/2?I use the WadWizard Supreme choke tube. It makes a difference and certainly lessens the punch to your shoulder especially with those turkey loads. Take a look at their patterns. There is a 50 yard pattern shown shot with only a 3 inch shell. Looks good to me. http://wadwizard.com/supremenon.htm#
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Chokes makes ZERO difference on perceived recoil. Factors in shotgun recoil are size of payload, burn rate of powder (shells) and stock fit and weight (gun itself) This is in regards to a standard stock, not one outfitted with a soft touch, clydle slide or the like
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It does when that after market choke is ported. There is 3 factors in all of this imo. Shooter skill, ckoke/pattern and shotgun. I know I have an affective kill range out to 60 yards with my setup and that is using Hevi-shot choke tube and 3" Hevi-shot Magnum blend 5,6,7 shot. I don't take that shot but if I need to I feel confident in it. Now I use to duck hunt and pheasant hunt with an old JC Higgins pump factory full choke. I could not jump shoot to save my life with that gun. I had to let the birds get out to about 30 plus yards. Put them down everytime. Using 2 3/4" shells. So size really doesn't matter as much to me. :chuckle: Lets also keep it civil please. Seems to be getting a bit hitted. Thanks
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Chokes makes ZERO difference on perceived recoil. Factors in shotgun recoil are size of payload, burn rate of powder (shells) and stock fit and weight (gun itself) This is in regards to a standard stock, not one outfitted with a soft touch, clydle slide or the like
Wrong. Certain chokes do not restrict the end of the barrel like most chokes. I know because I use one. It cuts the punch to the shoulder in half. Go read up on that choke I posted about. You might learn sumpting.
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I think 60 yards is pushing it but 50 with a good choke and 3-1/2 shells can give a good pattern. Don't forget the main point of a 3-1/2 vs a 3 or 2-3/4 is the increased amount of pellets you are throwing down range at the target thus increasing the odds of a successful hit. Why do you think they make the 3-1/2?I use the WadWizard Supreme choke tube. It makes a difference and certainly lessens the punch to your shoulder especially with those turkey loads. Take a look at their patterns. There is a 50 yard pattern shown shot with only a 3 inch shell. Looks good to me. http://wadwizard.com/supremenon.htm#
Are you talking about 60 yards on a turkey or waterfowl? I do think they is a big difference in the two.
They made a shake weight so manufacturers will make anything they think they can sell to people haha. I do think 3.5 inch shells have their place for people who want to use them. A study I read said that at 50 yards you get an increase of about 10% harvest rate with a 3.5" vs a 3". The same study also stated that under 40 yards the wounded rate of a hit bird was less than 30% but at 50 yards it jumped to 50/50 and at 60 yards it went to 66%. Looking at that my conclusion is that shorter distances equals a better kill rate than a bigger shell. So if you used a 3.5" shell at under 40 yards your success rate would go up no doubt. So I do see a point in 3.5 shell but just not for the assumption that it can extend ranges.
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Pegasus, I have been reading that site since you posted it. I see no claims on recoil. Not being arguementive I an seriously interested in it. Maybe I am just missing it.
I shoot about 15k 12ga a year and reload 10-12k a year. I will leave it at that with the wishes of the moderators
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It does when that after market choke is ported. There is 3 factors in all of this imo. Shooter skill, ckoke/pattern and shotgun. I know I have an affective kill range out to 60 yards with my setup and that is using Hevi-shot choke tube and 3" Hevi-shot Magnum blend 5,6,7 shot. I don't take that shot but if I need to I feel confident in it. Now I use to duck hunt and pheasant hunt with an old JC Higgins pump factory full choke. I could not jump shoot to save my life with that gun. I had to let the birds get out to about 30 plus yards. Put them down everytime. Using 2 3/4" shells. So size really doesn't matter as much to me. :chuckle: Lets also keep it civil please. Seems to be getting a bit hitted. Thanks
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I agree on the 3 factors but I think ones skill is normally over exaggerated. Also ones ability to determined distances is normally way off too. How many times have you watched birds above the tree line and people open up at them to talk to them later about how they were working birds in close haha.
I'm not saying those statements about you because there are people out there who practice and truly are good shots. I also bet that even though you feel effective out to 60 yards you take more shots at 20-30 than 60.
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https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/2012/08/4-factors-influence-felt-recoil-shotguns
http://www.omahamarian.org/trap/shotshellenergy.html
http://claytargettesting.com/study2/pages/study2a.html This test was done by Neil Winston
Sorry for the delayed response I had to shoot a practice round of trap at lunch.
EWUeagles I graduated from same highly esteemed Harvard of Spokane Co :chuckle: and still heavily fish and hunt that area. We've more than likely crossed paths out in the scablands.
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Pegasus, I have been reading that site since you posted it. I see no claims on recoil. Not being arguementive I an seriously interested in it. Maybe I am just missing it.
I shoot about 15k 12ga a year and reload 10-12k a year. I will leave it at that with the wishes of the moderators
They make no claim about the recoil but since it does not restrict, it definitely reduces the recoil. I would say about 50 percent. Shooting turkey loads used to kill my shoulder and I have shoulder issues. They now feel like a 2-3/4 low brass load. It is a shoulder saver and you can use it for almost all hunting. Wasn't cheap but was a big help plus I can shoot better with it. Read about how it also affects the shot string. Pretty interesting. I bot one years ago when they had just started. I wrote a testimonial for them when I shot a turkey that year at about 50 yards. Super clean kill. I don't see the testimonial anymore but I think they replaced it with newer ones plus I never sent a pic along with it. I have bot three of those from them. One did not quite seat all the way down on a Baikal shotgun and they remanufactured it for me for free.
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It does when that after market choke is ported. There is 3 factors in all of this imo. Shooter skill, ckoke/pattern and shotgun. I know I have an affective kill range out to 60 yards with my setup and that is using Hevi-shot choke tube and 3" Hevi-shot Magnum blend 5,6,7 shot. I don't take that shot but if I need to I feel confident in it. Now I use to duck hunt and pheasant hunt with an old JC Higgins pump factory full choke. I could not jump shoot to save my life with that gun. I had to let the birds get out to about 30 plus yards. Put them down everytime. Using 2 3/4" shells. So size really doesn't matter as much to me. :chuckle: Lets also keep it civil please. Seems to be getting a bit hitted. Thanks
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I agree on the 3 factors but I think ones skill is normally over exaggerated. Also ones ability to determined distances is normally way off too. How many times have you watched birds above the tree line and people open up at them to talk to them later about how they were working birds in close haha.
I'm not saying those statements about you because there are people out there who practice and truly are good shots. I also bet that even though you feel effective out to 60 yards you take more shots at 20-30 than 60.
You are correct. I have never shot beyond 40 yards and don't plan on it. I just know I can.
I am sorry. I think we have jacked this post. The OP was originally talking 3 1/2's for duck hunting. It is a bit of a difference hunting ducks and turkeys. I have hunted both. I have only hunted ducks with 2 3/4' and was pretty successful between 30 and 40 yards.
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So to get back to the OP for a second. I shoot the original Super Black Eagle. I have moderate shoulder issues that are not getting better. I have never shot a 3.5 in a pump. The 3.5 in my gun doesn't bother me. Do I shoot them every time I hunt...no. I basically use them as my goose load. I do a fair amount of snow goose hunting and use 3.5 on those hunts. If I am buying a shotgun I want that 3.5 option if I feel I need/want it. Buy the gun with the most options.
Best of luck, shoulders can really hurt sometimes...it sucks
BD1
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Shoulder issues started after hunting season and is related to work. However at end of last season my gun was kicking my butt at the end of the weekend. I shoot 3” and 3-1/2” as most areas I hunt have random goose flights.
I’m not looking for speed or extreme range, I am purely seeing how others fair with 3.5” in an auto loader.
Thanks for input on gas vs inertia. I spoke with a salesman about inertia and he said sbe has a recoil spring in stock (comfort tech?) while the franchi has it in the forearm which creates different recoil. More research on my end req’d.
Something more for me to look into as I also want a gun capable of every size shell without changing pistons or springs. . .
Thanks again
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Shoulder issues started after hunting season and is related to work. However at end of last season my gun was kicking my butt at the end of the weekend. I shoot 3” and 3-1/2” as most areas I hunt have random goose flights.
I’m not looking for speed or extreme range, I am purely seeing how others fair with 3.5” in an auto loader.
Thanks for input on gas vs inertia. I spoke with a salesman about inertia and he said sbe has a recoil spring in stock (comfort tech?) while the franchi has it in the forearm which creates different recoil. More research on my end req’d.
Something more for me to look into as I also want a gun capable of every size shell without changing pistons or springs. . .
Thanks again
Sorry about the shoulder problem. I hope it won't slow you down too much in hunting. Everything I have heard is Beretta A400 is it has the least amount of felt recoil. I have shot them from time to time and they do feel good shooting them.
Seriously if it's a big issue I would look into Boss shotshell (I have never shot them because I'm cheap haha) but they claim 2 3/4 5 shot and 3" 2 or 3 shot is all you need for duck and geese respectfully. That would reduce felt recoil quite a bit. If my shoulders ever started taking too much of a beating I would look into it even though they cost about 250 a case.
Also if you're shoulder is really killing you don't get scared about a 20 gauge. They work great and would also help with felt recoil. Good luck this next season and I hope you get the right combo for your shoulder.
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http://www.slickslide.net/recoil_systems.htm
If recoil is a real issue it might be worth the phone call. I shoot ATA trap all over the Western States, a standard day is 300-400 rounds. Quite a few guys have some type of system installed, I am not at the point yet, but I have personally seen Tulley's work and it is top notch.
He is based out of Lewiston Id. Shotgun smiths are very hard to find in this area. There is also Soft Touch in the Portland metro area.
Above is his price list. He could likely reduce the recoil in a new gun or at least point you in the right direction
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http://www.slickslide.net/recoil_systems.htm
If recoil is a real issue it might be worth the phone call. I shoot ATA trap all over the Western States, a standard day is 300-400 rounds. Quite a few guys have some type of system installed, I am not at the point yet, but I have personally seen Tulley's work and it is top notch.
He is based out of Lewiston Id. Shotgun smiths are very hard to find in this area. There is also Soft Touch in the Portland metro area.
Above is his price list. He could likely reduce the recoil in a new gun or at least point you in the right direction
These are good systems. We use them in our trap guns. Only because of the amount of rounds we shoot. Keeps your shoulder from becoming tenderized.
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Do you shoot any PITA events or only ATA?
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Do you shoot any PITA events or only ATA?
ATA a lot in Mt because of the added money, Idaho, Eastern Or and Wa. Only PITA event I have shot was Yakima a month ago. Wenatchee-Yakima is as far west as I will go, I feel safer on the right side of the Cascade curtain :chuckle: From what I saw in Yakima the PITA is stacked. Sunday morning in singles I shot a 98 and was low man on my squad of 5
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You are talking about the spring yak right? Pomona is my home club. And yeah there were some pretty good scores.
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You are talking about the spring yak right? Pomona is my home club. And yeah there were some pretty good scores.
Yes Sir...Very nice club. My home base is Hauser Id, I'm a Wa resident but live really close to the line
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Also if you're shoulder is really killing you don't get scared about a 20 gauge. They work great and would also help with felt recoil. Good luck this next season and I hope you get the right combo for your shoulder.
I have a buddy down in California who shoots a 20 ga and is deadly on the ducks and even the geese if shot within reasonable range. He generally shoots Kent #2 shot through it.
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Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.
Heck, my duck gun of choice is a 20 gauge. Whenever I pick up my 12 gauge I shoot two and three quarter inch number threes LOL
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Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.
No it will not do the exact same thing. A 3.5 inch shell has more pellets which improves the pattern at longer ranges.
@EWUeagles Unfortunately I didn't use a 3.5 on the turkey I got last week. Had a problem with my 3.5 gun so I took the 3" semi and nailed a turkey a 15 yards. Was hoping to get a 50 or 60 yard shot for you ;)
Hopefully I can go again this season.
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Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.
No it will not do the exact same thing. A 3.5 inch shell has more pellets which improves the pattern at longer ranges.
@EWUeagles Unfortunately I didn't use a 3.5 on the turkey I got last week. Had a problem with my 3.5 gun so I took the 3" semi and nailed a turkey a 15 yards. Was hoping to get a 50 or 60 yard shot for you ;)
Hopefully I can go again this season.
I saw the picture of a turkey and congrats it looks like a beautiful Tom.
I shot my with 2 3/4 5 shot this weekend. No need for a 60 yard shot ever but it is clear me and you will always disagree on that point.
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Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.
No it will not do the exact same thing. A 3.5 inch shell has more pellets which improves the pattern at longer ranges.
@EWUeagles Unfortunately I didn't use a 3.5 on the turkey I got last week. Had a problem with my 3.5 gun so I took the 3" semi and nailed a turkey a 15 yards. Was hoping to get a 50 or 60 yard shot for you ;)
Hopefully I can go again this season.
I saw the picture of a turkey and congrats it looks like a beautiful Tom.
I shot my with 2 3/4 5 shot this weekend. No need for a 60 yard shot ever but it is clear me and you will always disagree on that point.
Yea we probably won't agree.
Congrats on the bird though!
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Plenty of YouTube videos and articles debunking the virtually non-existent advantage you are claiming.
3.5" shells drop off after 50 yards...at the same rate as a 3".
From 20-40 yds, a few extra pellets don't make a difference compared to selecting the right choke, shot size, and accurate shooting.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/4/18/3-12-inch-turkey-loads-worth-the-recoil/
Every gun/shell combo I have patterned has generated similar results to the authors, waterfowl and turkey loads.
Given the new tungsten and bismuth shot materials available, the already weak argument for 3.5" shells has become laughable.
Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.
No it will not do the exact same thing. A 3.5 inch shell has more pellets which improves the pattern at longer ranges.
@EWUeagles Unfortunately I didn't use a 3.5 on the turkey I got last week. Had a problem with my 3.5 gun so I took the 3" semi and nailed a turkey a 15 yards. Was hoping to get a 50 or 60 yard shot for you ;)
Hopefully I can go again this season.
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Plenty of YouTube videos and articles debunking the virtually non-existent advantage you are claiming.
3.5" shells drop off after 50 yards...at the same rate as a 3".
From 20-40 yds, a few extra pellets don't make a difference compared to selecting the right choke, shot size, and accurate shooting.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/4/18/3-12-inch-turkey-loads-worth-the-recoil/
Every gun/shell combo I have patterned has generated similar results to the authors, waterfowl and turkey loads.
Given the new tungsten and bismuth shot materials available, the already weak argument for 3.5" shells has become laughable.
Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.
No it will not do the exact same thing. A 3.5 inch shell has more pellets which improves the pattern at longer ranges.
@EWUeagles Unfortunately I didn't use a 3.5 on the turkey I got last week. Had a problem with my 3.5 gun so I took the 3" semi and nailed a turkey a 15 yards. Was hoping to get a 50 or 60 yard shot for you ;)
Hopefully I can go again this season.
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The article you cite shows the 3.5 did better at 40 and 50 yards and does not even identify what choke the author used. Chokes obviously make a huge difference in range and patterns. The article is germane to only one gun with an unidentified choke and thus qualifies as junk science and is worthless in proving your opinion.
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Plenty of YouTube videos and articles debunking the virtually non-existent advantage you are claiming.
3.5" shells drop off after 50 yards...at the same rate as a 3".
From 20-40 yds, a few extra pellets don't make a difference compared to selecting the right choke, shot size, and accurate shooting.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/4/18/3-12-inch-turkey-loads-worth-the-recoil/
Every gun/shell combo I have patterned has generated similar results to the authors, waterfowl and turkey loads.
Given the new tungsten and bismuth shot materials available, the already weak argument for 3.5" shells has become laughable.
Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.
No it will not do the exact same thing. A 3.5 inch shell has more pellets which improves the pattern at longer ranges.
@EWUeagles Unfortunately I didn't use a 3.5 on the turkey I got last week. Had a problem with my 3.5 gun so I took the 3" semi and nailed a turkey a 15 yards. Was hoping to get a 50 or 60 yard shot for you ;)
Hopefully I can go again this season.
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The article you cite shows the 3.5 did better at 40 and 50 yards and does not even identify what choke the author used. Chokes obviously make a huge difference in range and patterns. The article is germane to only one gun with an unidentified choke and thus qualifies as junk science and is worthless in proving your opinion.
This should really be two conversations, one for waterfowl and one for turkeys. Turkeys can be shot a farther range than waterfowl because of the use of TSS and lead shot and for the simple fact most shots are of a stationary target.
For Turkeys I couldn't find any data about efficiency of kill based on range. Can a gun pattern out to 60 yards? Yeah probably but can a hunter hit that 5 out or 8 times? Probably not. Again these are assumptions and I couldn't find any data to back this. I'm also excited for all the BA guys that want to talk about how amazing of a shot they are haha.
For waterfowl it is proven that as range increases your efficiency of cleaning killing the animal decreases. This is never about what a gun and ammo can do it's what can a hunter do. There's plenty of data out there that supports the theory of don't shoot 3.5 inch shells to extend your range instead decrease the distance. Can you shoot a duck at 60, 70 or 80 yards? Sure a magical bb hits every now and again but how many animals do you wound before that one hits? How many have sailed that aren't recovered?
Does 3.5 shell give you a better killing efficiency? Yep I stated that above it's around 10% but decreasing you're range to 20 or 30 yards will improve you're efficiency even more.
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Plenty of YouTube videos and articles debunking the virtually non-existent advantage you are claiming.
3.5" shells drop off after 50 yards...at the same rate as a 3".
From 20-40 yds, a few extra pellets don't make a difference compared to selecting the right choke, shot size, and accurate shooting.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/4/18/3-12-inch-turkey-loads-worth-the-recoil/
Every gun/shell combo I have patterned has generated similar results to the authors, waterfowl and turkey loads.
Given the new tungsten and bismuth shot materials available, the already weak argument for 3.5" shells has become laughable.
Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.
No it will not do the exact same thing. A 3.5 inch shell has more pellets which improves the pattern at longer ranges.
@EWUeagles Unfortunately I didn't use a 3.5 on the turkey I got last week. Had a problem with my 3.5 gun so I took the 3" semi and nailed a turkey a 15 yards. Was hoping to get a 50 or 60 yard shot for you ;)
Hopefully I can go again this season.
Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
The article you cite shows the 3.5 did better at 40 and 50 yards and does not even identify what choke the author used. Chokes obviously make a huge difference in range and patterns. The article is germane to only one gun with an unidentified choke and thus qualifies as junk science and is worthless in proving your opinion.
I posted 1 article.
Feel free to dig around and watch the exact thing I'm talking about happen on YouTube as well.
I find it so hilarious when guys cling to their belief that 3.5 inch shells are so superior. The right choke and shell combo plus a shooter who knows what they are doing is 99% of the equation.
If you want to pay 50% more per shell, deal with the excessive recoil, all for a occasionally marginal and sometimes negative ballistic advantage...knock yourself out!
Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
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Plenty of YouTube videos and articles debunking the virtually non-existent advantage you are claiming.
3.5" shells drop off after 50 yards...at the same rate as a 3".
From 20-40 yds, a few extra pellets don't make a difference compared to selecting the right choke, shot size, and accurate shooting.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/4/18/3-12-inch-turkey-loads-worth-the-recoil/
Every gun/shell combo I have patterned has generated similar results to the authors, waterfowl and turkey loads.
Given the new tungsten and bismuth shot materials available, the already weak argument for 3.5" shells has become laughable.
Why on Earth do people shoot 3 and 1/2 inch shells? Ballistically, a 3 inch shell out of a 12 gauge with a good forcing cone will do the same exact thing and burn way less powder and kick a whole lot less.
No it will not do the exact same thing. A 3.5 inch shell has more pellets which improves the pattern at longer ranges.
@EWUeagles Unfortunately I didn't use a 3.5 on the turkey I got last week. Had a problem with my 3.5 gun so I took the 3" semi and nailed a turkey a 15 yards. Was hoping to get a 50 or 60 yard shot for you ;)
Hopefully I can go again this season.
Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
The article you cite shows the 3.5 did better at 40 and 50 yards and does not even identify what choke the author used. Chokes obviously make a huge difference in range and patterns. The article is germane to only one gun with an unidentified choke and thus qualifies as junk science and is worthless in proving your opinion.
I posted 1 article.
Feel free to dig around and watch the exact thing I'm talking about happen on YouTube as well.
I find it so hilarious when guys cling to their belief that 3.5 inch shells are so superior. The right choke and shell combo plus a shooter who knows what they are doing is 99% of the equation.
If you want to pay 50% more per shell, deal with the excessive recoil, all for a occasionally marginal and sometimes negative ballistic advantage...knock yourself out!
Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
Hehe. No pun intended...
I hate 3.5 shells.
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The whole 3 vs 3.5 debate reminds me of guys who buy a 300 Remington Ultra Magnum and then tell the guys with a .30-06 that they don't have enough firepower to kill a deer.
Entertaining for sure.
The OP is going to have a banged-up shoulder so I recommend a more logical choice... and all the 3.5 guys get butthurt LOL I love the internet
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The whole 3 vs 3.5 debate reminds me of guys who buy a 300 Remington Ultra Magnum and then tell the guys with a .30-06 that they don't have enough firepower to kill a deer.
Entertaining for sure.
The OP is going to have a banged-up shoulder so I recommend a more logical choice... and all the 3.5 guys get butthurt LOL I love the internet
The whole 3 vs 3.5 debate reminds me of guys that don't understand probability. You can explain that the increase in pellets will increase the chance of an instant kill but they seem to think it is all marketing.
Entertaining for sure.
There are valid reasons to use 3 and there are valid reasons to use 3.5. It often depends on the situation.
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For Turkeys I couldn't find any data about efficiency of kill based on range. Can a gun pattern out to 60 yards? Yeah probably but can a hunter hit that 5 out or 8 times? Probably not. Again these are assumptions and I couldn't find any data to back this. I'm also excited for all the BA guys that want to talk about how amazing of a shot they are haha.
I think you would be surprised at how consistent you can get with a modern turkey load and matching choke. If you can shoot to 40 consistently with cheap stuff then it doesn't take much more to reach out to 60. I really don't think it is a big deal. With a red dot and a 3.5 shell I would expect 8/8 at 60. That is using a standard turkey target with at least one pellet in the kill zone from standing position using premium ammo. Mossberg 535 with Carlson choke.
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I shoot 2 3/4” #2 for ducks everywhere but on the river. They pattern the best and result in more killed ducks for me. Plus super light on the shoulder. For the big river, I’ll go up to 3” #2 because the divers are so thick skinned, few extra pellets is nice. Still easy on the shoulder. 3 1/2” just don’t pattern with my gun very well and you beat the piss out of yourself, I have a benelli nova pump I’ve been shooting for 15 years, find what patterns best and go with that. Size doesn’t matter if you can’t hit them
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For Turkeys I couldn't find any data about efficiency of kill based on range. Can a gun pattern out to 60 yards? Yeah probably but can a hunter hit that 5 out or 8 times? Probably not. Again these are assumptions and I couldn't find any data to back this. I'm also excited for all the BA guys that want to talk about how amazing of a shot they are haha.
I think you would be surprised at how consistent you can get with a modern turkey load and matching choke. If you can shoot to 40 consistently with cheap stuff then it doesn't take much more to reach out to 60. I really don't think it is a big deal. With a red dot and a 3.5 shell I would expect 8/8 at 60. That is using a standard turkey target with at least one pellet in the kill zone from standing position using premium ammo. Mossberg 535 with Carlson choke.
So you consider 1 pellet a kill shot? I for one don't count on a golden bb for a kill.
Yes I have watched all the videos of TSS shot and won't ever debate what the ammo can and can't do. It's just fact most hunters aren't as good as shot as they believe they are. There are more people out in the woods who pick their shotguns up on opening day and hit the marsh or woods than are shooting shells all summer to be ready.
I think there's places for 3.5 inch shell but to add range I don't believe is one of them. I prefer ethical kills and for turkeys that's inside 40 yards for me, and honestly we shot 4 of our 5 birds within 15 yards this year. There's plenty of stats out there that with wing shooting more pellets doesn't mean a higher chance of a clean kill. What does add more to the chance is decreasing the range. Yes ammo companies are marketing to extended range but that's because more and more people haven't learned the art of finishing birds, wither it's turkeys or waterfowl. I prefer birds in tight and don't need to sky blast.
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This thread is still alive?
Depends on what you're shooting. If running TSS, 2 3/4" is all you need. If running BB or bigger steel then 3.5" has it's merit on geese to get more ounces of shot if running BB thru F size. If another metal like heavishot or bismuth, or ducks on bigger water or closer in geese, then something in between like 3". I switched over this year to 2 3/4" hulls. 7/8 ounce of TSS #9 for ducks, 7/8 ounce of TSS #7 for geese. With a #6 Steel for swatter loads on cripples. I'll still load up some #2 steel as well.
Here's some fun range and penetration numbers from KPY Ballistics (note: I borrowed this from DaveinAZ's wordpress site as he does such a nice writeup on this stuff there and in the shotgun/waterfowl forums). 1.5" penetration is assumed for ducks, and 2.25" for geese.
Penetration Range
shot size pellets/1oz 1.5″gel 2.25″gel
Steel #4 190 pellets, 31.0yds —-
Steel #3 152 pellets, 38.8yds —
Steel #2 124 pellets, 46.2yds, 24.0yds
Steel #1 102 pellets, 54.4yds, 30.8yds
Steel #B 85 pellets, 62.8yds, 37.7yds
Steel #BB 71 pellets, 71.5yds, 45.0yds
Steel #BBB 61 pellets, 80.7yds, 52.7yds
Steel #T 52 pellets, 89.8yds, 60.3yds
Steel #TT 45 pellets, 99.2yds, 68.6yds
Steel #F 39 pellets, 108.9yds, 76.9yds
ITX10 #4 150 pellets, 58.4yds, 34.2yds
ITX10 #2 97 pellets, 80.8yds, 52.8yds
HeviShot #6 206 pellets, 60.7yds, 35.9yds
HeviShot #4 125 pellets, 87.8yds, 58.7yds <<< Beats #BBB steel, over 2x more pellets
HW13 #6 190 pellets, 72.6yds, 46.0yds <<<Beats #BB steel, over 2.6x more pellets
HW13 #4 115 pellets, 103.5yds, 72.1yds <<<Beats #TT steel, over 2.5x more pellets
TSS #9 357 pellets, 73.6yds, 46.9yds <<<Beats #BB steel, over 5x more pellets
TSS #8 251 pellets, 95.0yds, 64.8yds <<<Beats #T steel, over 4.8x more pellets
TSS #7 183 pellets, 117.1yds, 83.7yds <<<Beats #F steel, over 4.6x more pellets, matches #FF steel
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i have a Benelli M2 that is a 3in gun, all you have to do is find the right load and pattern your gun. This year I tried the Hevi X #6 in 3in and killed without crippling more birds then I was when I used my factory 3in Winchesters and federals. Also years ago I used to shoot 3 1/2 in most of the season and always consistently got headaches and all that was from the recoil of the gun but if you are gonna run 3 1/2s look at getting a good recoil pad to take some of the kick away