Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: JBar on March 29, 2009, 06:26:40 PM
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Did any of you guys that hunted the Eatonville side of Hancock run across a buck with a large softball size tumor on it's face? Not going to say where I had seen it but if you have you'll know where he was hanging out. I attempted to get pic's of him but they turned out really blurry and dark. Never seen anything like it! I saw this buck once the day before season and once on the archery opener. Other than the tumor looking things he seemed healthy I guess :dunno: Wondering if this buck was harvested or if anyone else had seen it. Also had a bunch of tumors down his side just not as big.
JBar
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I did not hear of anyone killing him. You are right it was really gross. I did not want to shoot it because I like to eat what I kill. I would not feel confortable eating it. I figure someone will pull the trigger on the poor bugger.
Just as a side note. Would you shoot it and eat it? I am just wondering...
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I had the opportunity to take him on the archery opener but passed him for his buddy, decent forkie not big on the antlers but scaled 110# at the butcher. I would not take him for just that reason, I'd be worried about eating the meat! :puke: I was just wondering if someone put him out of his misery, though probably the first time tumors were keeping something alive. When did you see him? During archery or Modern?
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Nope, didn't see him.
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Did you see that buck in the 08 season?
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I saw him during rifle season. My son could have killed him but chose not to from the reason I stated in the earlier post.
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Anyone who see's this type of thing on the deer needs to report it to WDFW. There is intense scrutiny right now on Timber Management Company's to keep their chemical use within the safe guidelines, many are not. Those types of tumors are primarily caused by excess herbicide use/ contamination. Another thing to keep in mind in those area's that have deer with tumors, just because you don't see visible tumors, does not mean your venison is not tainted with chemicals, in the same area.
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Did you see that buck in the 08 season?
Yes this buck was seen in 08, and Dman I was wondering if that might have been the case but I have shot deer with small dime sized lumps ( not sure they were tumors ) before but they were on Forest service land with little or old clearcuts. Good call on your son's part Thehunt I'm with you, did your son or yourself end up getting anything after passing him up?
And the same question to the rest of you that read this, Would you have killed this or any other buck with the Tumors the size of softballs?
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The Forest Service also uses aerial spraying of chems, even blacktail are migratory enough to move back and forth dozen's of miles to the more heavily treated clearcuts. The Forest Service also has timber sales/ leases on their lands that allow in some cases, a forestry management company to treat and plant in clearcut zones. One of the key issues with the applications is that they are made by helicopter in huge amounts and they are not supposed to come into contact with streams, they do constantly and when they do the chems travel downstream for miles and miles. During the dry season when the deer move to find water, that's exactly where they go, right to the primary streams where the chems ended up and many of the types used stay toxic and do not break down for over a year, 2-4D is one common one.
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Herbicide spray is heavely critized but in all actuallity many of the chemicals that our used are as safe as your house hold chemicals such as round up or cross bow, many of the chemicals that forest management companies spray are the same as some of those house hold chemicals just with different names. There are buffers that have to be put on any water, standing or running and they are regulated by Washington State Forest Practices and the EPA, they are very regulated, and I would have to say I have never seen water sprayed, thats not to say it doesn't happen but by having a WSDA pesticide license I know the concequences of it and it is the license holders a$$ because he is licensed through the state of Washington to spray. If you were to read the Specimen Label for the chemicals most of the ones used in forestry have a precautionary statement of CAUTION, which is the lowest level for herbicides.
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Herbicide spray is heavely critized but in all actuallity many of the chemicals that our used are as safe as your house hold chemicals such as round up or cross bow, many of the chemicals that forest management companies spray are the same as some of those house hold chemicals just with different names. There are buffers that have to be put on any water, standing or running and they are regulated by Washington State Forest Practices and the EPA, they are very regulated, and I would have to say I have never seen water sprayed, thats not to say it doesn't happen but by having a WSDA pesticide license I know the concequences of it and it is the license holders a$$ because he is licensed through the state of Washington to spray. If you were to read the Specimen Label for the chemicals most of the ones used in forestry have a precautionary statement of CAUTION, which is the lowest level for herbicides.
I have seen them applied directly to streams on Hancock land's more than once. I've been a WSDA licensed herbicide/ pesticide consultant for 10 years and used to be an applicator, I know my herbicides. 2-4D kills salmon, yet by law, it can be applied to water now, prior to a few years ago you could not apply it to water without a special permit and often that permit was denied, the standard's changed much over the last several years, buffers have been reduced, etc..
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I don't disagree that it may kill salmon, but I personally have never seen any pesticide sprayed into water wether it is allowable or not and it still does not make it allowable under Forest Practices Rules, like I said I am sure it happens though.
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You may have seen my post on Russell Link's retirement, longtime bio for the Snoqualmie area. I had an interesting conversation with him about two years ago after doing a lot of scouting in the Snoqualmie tree farm and seeing helicopter's sraying really heavy to the point where I would walk through a clear cut, supposedly past the "no entry" period and I couldn't breathe and my eyes turned red and wouldn't stop watering. This was right on a stream drainage, the chemically treated area, as you can tell from the dead vegetation ran right up to the stream bank. The chemical was listed on the signage and was one, as you say that was not approved for direct, or indirect water system treatment. After talking to Russell, this has been a really growing problem, there is a lot of pressure by the timber Company's to maximize profit, so they are taking drastic steps, bending the rules, to create as much board feet as possible, it is really being scrutinized right now, I have to be honest when I say I would not eat a deer taken in a growing number of areas in Western Washington.
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is there a way to know or test the meat you harvest?
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yeah thats scary, no i didn't see the post, site prep is critical to get a plantation started, or started in fast way, but the Hancock's don't really give a sh%$, its cut and get out and the reason why they are site preping is because they need green up on the adjacent plantation so they can log it, hopefully forest practices is doing some post site visits and looking at the spray lines to see if they are violating the rules and fining them, it will all be banned before we know it, the most I do now is road side.
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Thats a good question, I dont know, I know when I shot a cougar the game department tested it for disease, you would think there may be some way nowadays, probably expensive if at all possible.
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the game dept said something about the elk with hoof rot "if it doesnt look good dont eat it"
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is there a way to know or test the meat you harvest?
There are two ways to research which area's could be a problem, one is to contact the WSDA in Olympia and ask about any areas of study/ concern that they are looking at right now, the other is to contact the timber Company where you plan to hunt, there is a requirement for them to notify the public where they are treating and what they are using. On Hancock lands, the one thing they are pretty good about is posting the area's treated with signage along the roadways (required by law), it will have the date of treatment, chemical and re-entry period post -treatment. I've seen most of their helicopter spraying done in August and September.
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I was hunting Weyco land once and the Helicopter flew right over me spreading fertililizer. I was 10 feet from a creek and I felt as if I was in a hail storm. Pellets looked like gravel on the bottem of the stream. :dunno:
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Did you see that buck in the 08 season?
Yes this buck was seen in 08, and Dman I was wondering if that might have been the case but I have shot deer with small dime sized lumps ( not sure they were tumors ) before but they were on Forest service land with little or old clearcuts. Good call on your son's part Thehunt I'm with you, did your son or yourself end up getting anything after passing him up?
My son ended up taking a 4X3 and I ended up with nothing. But that was fine because I took an elk during archery elk season. So we had plenty of meat.
I really look at the liver for spots or any issues.
The security guard for Hancock knows of that buck. I am sure he talked to the Game Agent about it as they talk at least once a week or more.
