Post by: chad24n on May 30, 2019, 07:44:51 AM
I'm an avid archery elk hunter, have hunted EA WA my whole life and have done well. However, I would prefer not to shoot another cow this year and have been quite successful at calling in bulls (just to video tape and watch them!). I'm changing my strategy this year and heading to Western WA to chase bulls with my calls. Looking at gmu 658 North River. Don't care about size of bull, my goal is always to fill my tag and feed my family. I've already scouted, found elk and know what I'm about but am looking for any additional advice anyone could give me on what to expect with hunting timberlands and playing the dirt road roulette.
Are these bulls vocal?
Will I hear bugles?
Will I be calling a lot of hunters?
15 miles/day enough or do I need to stretch to 20?
Hunters successful still hunting the roads?
Are bulls competitive with each other?
To bugle or cow call?
It'll be fun for sure!!! Thanks for your time!
Post by: jeffitz on May 30, 2019, 08:10:22 AM
Post by: WSU on May 30, 2019, 08:39:35 AM
Post by: chad24n on May 30, 2019, 08:42:55 AM
One problem you’ll have in north river is you can drive to just about everywhere. Literally everywhere has road to it because all of it logged.
Yes there are! However... they are all gated. I drove the perimeter of the entire unit and dove in to every single gate. A local said they open up a few gates during rifle season only so I'm expecting them to all be closed during archery. Does anyone know if there is truth to what the local said? I'd prefer them all to stay closed for my style of hunting for sure.
Post by: WSU on May 30, 2019, 10:00:33 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 30, 2019, 10:11:00 AM
They sell 1,200 drive in permits, so the roads are all driven.
Weyerhaeuser? They only have a small part of the GMU on the east side. The rest is all a mix of ownership with plenty of locked gates.
Post by: WSU on May 30, 2019, 10:12:43 AM
They sell 1,200 drive in permits, so the roads are all driven.
Weyerhaeuser? They only have a small part of the GMU on the east side. The rest is all a mix of ownership with plenty of locked gates.
That's true. Some open to the public and others not. I'd research it closely before putting my eggs in that basket (which I need to do myself!).
Post by: chad24n on May 30, 2019, 10:36:42 AM
They sell 1,200 drive in permits, so the roads are all driven.
Weyerhaeuser? They only have a small part of the GMU on the east side. The rest is all a mix of ownership with plenty of locked gates.
That's true. Some open to the public and others not. I'd research it closely before putting my eggs in that basket (which I need to do myself!).
Yeah, I've done my homework. Weyeco on east side but small... not worth buying permit there imo. Cedar River on the south side, much larger acreage, need permit there. I've got the access figured out.
More curious about people's experiences hunting timber lands versus the high mountains on east side. Anyone have comparative experiences they'd like to share?
Post by: WSU on May 30, 2019, 10:43:26 AM
Post by: chad24n on May 30, 2019, 10:47:24 AM
The elk can be called in for sure and can be vocal. It's difference since it is so dense. Most bedding areas you can't see 10 feet.
I've noticed. Praying my experience in Western will be a good one. It was hard to make the switch. Going to miss the mountains this year. Another random question concerning 658.. why are there no cow tags? Nothing otc and no quality or antlerless hunt. Notice a couple choices for modern and muzzle but why no archery? I don't get it.
Post by: WSU on May 30, 2019, 10:52:48 AM
Post by: headshot5 on May 30, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 30, 2019, 11:11:16 AM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2019-01/district17_0.pdf
Post by: chad24n on May 30, 2019, 12:07:05 PM
Just be aware that most of the woods (Hancock etc.) out that way are shutdown in August/September due to fire danger. Unless they get quite a few days of rain.
Do they shutdown quicker than Weyeco or pay to play lands? Or does everyone generally shutdown at the same time?
Post by: SteelheadTed on May 30, 2019, 12:11:48 PM
Will I hear bugles? Yes! See above.
Will I be calling a lot of hunters? hard to say, I don't hunt the North River unit but I do a unit or two over and during archery season I have the place to myself. I think this is true in general in western wa, many fewer archers out here, they all head east or to other states.
15 miles/day enough or do I need to stretch to 20? That is plenty. I've had success driving to the ends of old landings and then walking half a mile in, sometimes less
Hunters successful still hunting the roads? I had a opportunity last year where I was at full draw, from the road! Granted, it was a road we had to walk down because of blown down trees but it was still an old road
Are bulls competitive with each other? I don't know about this as much. My experience is a herd bull gets his cows together and by mid-September has fended off the little bulls. YMMV.
To bugle or cow call? I've learned a lot from the Angry Spike guys and they never cow call. It works for me to locate bugle, get a bearing on them, close the gap and then call the bull in from there, imitating whatever he is throwing out, often more chuckling than bugles.
For me I've had success by walking into an area with sign, bugling looking for a response and then moving on if getting nothing. I cover a lot of ground but not all of it on foot. I drive between spots and walk in to where I think a herd would hang out, locate bugle and keep moving. Last year it took me three days and probably 15 "probes" before I found my first herd and then I made a play that took a couple days to get right with wind. Unless they wind you and blow out, they tend to stay in a pretty small area, not like Rockies in that respect.
Post by: chad24n on May 30, 2019, 12:18:59 PM
Are these bulls vocal? Yes! In the dense trees though you won't hear them very far and when you do, you are closer than you think.
Will I hear bugles? Yes! See above.
Will I be calling a lot of hunters? hard to say, I don't hunt the North River unit but I do a unit or two over and during archery season I have the place to myself. I think this is true in general in western wa, many fewer archers out here, they all head east or to other states.
15 miles/day enough or do I need to stretch to 20? That is plenty. I've had success driving to the ends of old landings and then walking half a mile in, sometimes less
Hunters successful still hunting the roads? I had a opportunity last year where I was at full draw, from the road! Granted, it was a road we had to walk down because of blown down trees but it was still an old road
Are bulls competitive with each other? I don't know about this as much. My experience is a herd bull gets his cows together and by mid-September has fended off the little bulls. YMMV.
To bugle or cow call? I've learned a lot from the Angry Spike guys and they never cow call. It works for me to locate bugle, get a bearing on them, close the gap and then call the bull in from there, imitating whatever he is throwing out, often more chuckling than bugles.
For me I've had success by walking into an area with sign, bugling looking for a response and then moving on if getting nothing. I cover a lot of ground but not all of it on foot. I drive between spots and walk in to where I think a herd would hang out, locate bugle and keep moving. Last year it took me three days and probably 15 "probes" before I found my first herd and then I made a play that took a couple days to get right with wind. Unless they wind you and blow out, they tend to stay in a pretty small area, not like Rockies in that respect.
Awesome post! Reaffirms what I'm learning about Rosies. I've watched all the Angry Spike stuff twice. Shannon does a great podcast on Elk Talk I believe... ep24 I think. EXTREMELY informative podcast. I've exhausted every possible learning angle about Rosies that i can think of except for forums. With your hunt style, is your YoY success above 50%? I hover around 40% on cows in EA WA and looking at dreadful harvest reports there feel I can do better in Western.
Post by: Greg Mullins on May 30, 2019, 03:50:42 PM
Post by: chad24n on May 31, 2019, 04:32:44 PM
They bugle at night if you beagle in the day you’ll probably bugle in another hunter. It’s kind of funny to watch them stomp around all over the place looking for an elk. I only bugle at first light because every time I bugle 45 minutes after daylight somebody’s walking through there . It’s the same old story you find a gated road you look at your maps and make sure it doesn’t connect to another road get your ass way up in there and you might find something . The last couple times I was up there I only cow called and did way better with that. Most the time the bull will come in and make no noise at all no bugle no grunts no nothing just silent .
Thanks for your input, I appreciate it. I'll most likely start every sequence with a few cow calls and wait a bit before hitting bugle and wait a bit and move on. I've still-hunted 90% of the time in the past but would love to get more involved with calling and having that relationship with a bull.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on May 31, 2019, 06:43:48 PM
Pretty good numbers in the bio report on bull/cow/calf..
One thing I have learned about elk in Washington is that there is ALWAYS a road somewhere.
Even areas that are gated, have activity on the roads.
You really have to try hard to get away from ACTIVE roads.
These are the mainlines that see most of the action.
"Back in the day" we used to drive mainlines and walk spurs.
If the road ended, you could follow the firebreak to the next road.
There was a road on top of clearcut, firebreak (caterpillar, or "cat" road) to bottom, and either a road, or another cat road along bottom to get out.
This made it simple to work small sections, and not fight the heavy growth in the clear cuts.
Worked great for deer, but the elk seemed to like the edges along timber/cuts and usually in the bottom near water, or the top of ridge where they could see down.
Now, what I have experienced is that they might frequent these areas in spring and summer, as soon as road traffic changes from the occasional vehicle during early morning to evening to before daylight to after dark, then they start heading away from the roads.
No matter what, they still have to cross these roads, they just do it in a hurry.
.
Take a walk along a mainline, find a solid game trail and follow it.
I bet it goes a short ways in, then parallels the road.
.
These animals live there 24/7/365 they don't go anywhere, they just avoid YOU.
It is easy.
You ever hear a vehicle coming up/down the road and hide from it?
(I know I am not the only one)
Just imagine if you heard that vehicle 5 miles away..
"Security cover" is anything thick enough to hide a full grown standing elk at 200 yards, most places I find are thicker than that.
Food, water, security cover, are all in one place here
In coastal Washington, all you need is to find the elk and figure out what direction they are headed.
If there is a road, great!
They like to eat the nice fresh grass along those roads.
Sometimes even bed on them.
Unless someone drove down it, Or otherwise disturbed them.
That's why gated roads are awesome, but I still find more activity in Creekbottoms, and areas between roads than I do along roads.
I just find travel areas near roads, and follow trails.
One reason bikes don't work for me, I often go in one road system and come out another.
I love decommissioned roads, great trail that sees no vehicular traffic and usually comes out on a road far behind a gate somewhere...
One of my favorites is 8 miles from a private timber company gate, but only a mile from a "dead end road" on state land.
Post by: chad24n on June 01, 2019, 06:23:01 AM
I have no experience with North River, although have been very curious about it.
Pretty good numbers in the bio report on bull/cow/calf..
One thing I have learned about elk in Washington is that there is ALWAYS a road somewhere.
Even areas that are gated, have activity on the roads.
You really have to try hard to get away from ACTIVE roads.
These are the mainlines that see most of the action.
"Back in the day" we used to drive mainlines and walk spurs.
If the road ended, you could follow the firebreak to the next road.
There was a road on top of clearcut, firebreak (caterpillar, or "cat" road) to bottom, and either a road, or another cat road along bottom to get out.
This made it simple to work small sections, and not fight the heavy growth in the clear cuts.
Worked great for deer, but the elk seemed to like the edges along timber/cuts and usually in the bottom near water, or the top of ridge where they could see down.
Now, what I have experienced is that they might frequent these areas in spring and summer, as soon as road traffic changes from the occasional vehicle during early morning to evening to before daylight to after dark, then they start heading away from the roads.
No matter what, they still have to cross these roads, they just do it in a hurry.
.
Take a walk along a mainline, find a solid game trail and follow it.
I bet it goes a short ways in, then parallels the road.
.
These animals live there 24/7/365 they don't go anywhere, they just avoid YOU.
It is easy.
You ever hear a vehicle coming up/down the road and hide from it?
(I know I am not the only one)
Just imagine if you heard that vehicle 5 miles away..
"Security cover" is anything thick enough to hide a full grown standing elk at 200 yards, most places I find are thicker than that.
Food, water, security cover, are all in one place here
In coastal Washington, all you need is to find the elk and figure out what direction they are headed.
If there is a road, great!
They like to eat the nice fresh grass along those roads.
Sometimes even bed on them.
Unless someone drove down it, Or otherwise disturbed them.
That's why gated roads are awesome, but I still find more activity in Creekbottoms, and areas between roads than I do along roads.
I just find travel areas near roads, and follow trails.
One reason bikes don't work for me, I often go in one road system and come out another.
I love decommissioned roads, great trail that sees no vehicular traffic and usually comes out on a road far behind a gate somewhere...
One of my favorites is 8 miles from a private timber company gate, but only a mile from a "dead end road" on state land.
Informative. According to locals, though, every .. single .. dirt road in this gmu is gated in September which for me is awesome. Hopefully its true. Hoping that after hiking in 6-10 miles I can have terrain to myself for the most part. Do you see many guys on bicycle? Considering taking mine. Anyone here bike in from call spot to call spot and never still hunt? If so, how does that work out for you?
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on June 01, 2019, 10:52:01 AM
That's how I found out how far from the gate I was.
I think they can really come in handy if you have a destination in mind, or are scouting.
Just did not work for me.
What I was trying to say was, you don't need to be that " far" in to find elk, find areas in between roads that everyone passes, you will be surprised how many elk people cruise past on there way to get away from other hunters, only to find other hunters and no elk.
Post by: Alan K on June 01, 2019, 11:07:15 AM
What I was trying to say was, you don't need to be that " far" in to find elk, find areas in between roads that everyone passes, you will be surprised how many elk people cruise past on there way to get away from other hunters, only to find other hunters and no elk.
:yeah:
There is always some willing to go "to the back" for elk. And it's definitely a myth to think you have to go way in. In fact so much so, that often times the first couple miles inside a gate won't have anyone hunting it. They all had to go deeper than the next guy and everyone overlooked it.
Your body will thank you only packing an animal out a mile or two versus 6-8. Unless part of the experience you're after is being a 'back country' guy and being able to tell your internet buddies you only hunt X miles from the nearest road and pack your elk out 15 miles every year. Hunting smarter not harder works well with elk, just like everything else. ;)
Post by: WSU on June 01, 2019, 11:52:51 AM
Post by: XJcoug13 on June 01, 2019, 03:16:21 PM
Post by: msg on June 04, 2019, 07:18:15 PM