Post by: smithkl42 on June 23, 2019, 07:58:37 PM
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,240355.msg3217828/topicseen.html#new
I didn't want to thread-jack it, so I thought I'd bring it over here.
I've occasionally run across someone's ladder stand on public land - usually in a spot where I've thought, "Man, yeah, that's a great spot."
Off season, just scouting, I've sometimes climbed these stands, just for a sit and a look around, and hopefully nobody minds that too much. (Hopefully.) But I'm curious what folks think are the appropriate ethics and/or etiquette when it comes time for hunting.
Would you ever use someone else's stand to hunt from? Have you ever?
Now, obviously:
(1) It's someone else's stand. It seems to me obvious that *if* one were to avail oneself of someone else's stand, and that someone else showed up, you'd get down, quickly and politely.
(2) Ya don't damage other people's stuff. It would obviously be wrong (not to mention illegal) to damage or steal the stand.
Related to the ethics, of course, is the pragmatic consideration of maybe pissing off a guy with a weapon deep in the woods :-). If someone comes along and finds you in their stand, I could imagine them being either cool with it (provided you were polite and friendly), or being pretty grumpy.
If it was your stand, how would you respond if you came across some guy sitting in it?
Post by: KFhunter on June 23, 2019, 08:08:15 PM
Typically the stands require bait to be active, if the stands are 'freshened up' with bait then they're being used and I don't want to hunt there anyways.
If the stands have been sitting dormant and there's no bait then they aren't worth sitting in.
What I wouldn't ever do is freshen up someone else's stand with bait, I'd make my own if I wanted to do that...I don't.
Not to mention safety factors, I don't know the age and condition of the straps or chains. I've found some stands grown deeply into a tree and others nearly falling down. I just mark the stands on my GPS and make a note of the age/condition and active use or not.
As for ethics, I think it would be unethical (for me) to sit in a stand that someone had recently dropped bait and running cameras.
I'm not that desperate for hunting areas.
Post by: JKEEN33 on June 23, 2019, 08:10:21 PM
Post by: Timberstalker on June 23, 2019, 08:12:10 PM
If you came back to your camp and I was in your tent sleeping in your bag, what would you say? If I was polite and left when you came back, would you still be mad? I kind of look at it the same way, but that’s just my opinion.Spot on.
Post by: Odell on June 23, 2019, 08:12:53 PM
But I'm a duck hunter and I am used to sitting in blinds someone else made
Post by: KFhunter on June 23, 2019, 08:18:35 PM
Nor would be illegal for me to start hunting coyotes right near my stand you're sitting in, so I'd blow on predator calls all.day.long.
It's not my fault my coyote howl sounds just like a wolf :dunno:
edit: nevermind I just seen you would leave the stand and wish them luck :chuckle: :tup:
Post by: h20hunter on June 23, 2019, 08:22:34 PM
Not mine. Move on. Leave it alone.
Post by: KFhunter on June 23, 2019, 08:23:45 PM
Easy.
Not mine. Move on. Leave it alone.
:yeah:
why I mark it on my GPS, so I can better avoid it.
Post by: Alchase on June 23, 2019, 08:43:23 PM
Easy.
Not mine. Move on. Leave it alone.
:yeah:
why I mark it on my GPS, so I can better avoid it.
Never would even think of using someone else's stand for a couple reasons:
1. I can't sit still long enough to get the benefit from a stand, LOL
2. It belongs to someone else. (emphasis on the period)
Post by: idaho guy on June 23, 2019, 08:54:39 PM
Easy.
Not mine. Move on. Leave it alone.
:yeah:
why I mark it on my GPS, so I can better avoid it.
X3 I have found lots of tree stands I just hunt somewhere else. Too many other places to hunt. Leave other people’s stuff alone seems like common sense to me :dunno:
Post by: bowhunterforever on June 23, 2019, 09:03:34 PM
:yeah:Easy.
Not mine. Move on. Leave it alone.
:yeah:
why I mark it on my GPS, so I can better avoid it.
X3 I have found lots of tree stands I just hunt somewhere else. Too many other places to hunt. Leave other people’s stuff alone seems like common sense to me :dunno:
Post by: Rainier10 on June 23, 2019, 09:13:03 PM
i've never done it but I would in a heartbeat. Public land. The beauty of it is that you are free to do what you want within the letter of the law. If the guy who put it there shows up, I would give it to them and wish them luck. But if I'm in the woods and see a stand or blind unoccupied and I feel like sitting in it then heck yeah.I was wondering if anyone was going to use the duck blind similarity.
But I'm a duck hunter and I am used to sitting in blinds someone else made
I can’t stand to just sit very long so I don’t think I could do it even if it was my stand.
If I did and the owner came along I would do the same as you and move on.
Post by: smithkl42 on June 23, 2019, 09:14:13 PM
As for ethics, I think it would be unethical (for me) to sit in a stand that someone had recently dropped bait and running cameras.
I'm not that desperate for hunting areas.
I agree, that scenario seems wrong, and intrusive.
Post by: idaho guy on June 23, 2019, 09:36:51 PM
Post by: Doublelunger on June 23, 2019, 11:48:48 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on June 24, 2019, 12:01:53 AM
I have found several in the Manastash unit.
If it is a portable, its not mine, so I leave it alone.
Got no issues with sitting on the ground near an unoccupied stand/blind.
But if its not mine, I don't touch it.
Hell, I got my grill kicked out for just walking up the trail near one.
Would like to meet that guy again...
Post by: elkrack on June 24, 2019, 12:15:37 AM
Post by: Jpmiller on June 24, 2019, 06:29:30 AM
I'm also not a big fan of knowingly hunting near other folks so I'd probably leave the area just based one that.
Post by: nwwanderer on June 24, 2019, 06:43:11 AM
Post by: huntnnw on June 24, 2019, 06:49:11 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on June 24, 2019, 06:50:41 AM
Post by: Odell on June 24, 2019, 10:15:48 AM
i've never done it but I would in a heartbeat. Public land. The beauty of it is that you are free to do what you want within the letter of the law. If the guy who put it there shows up, I would give it to them and wish them luck. But if I'm in the woods and see a stand or blind unoccupied and I feel like sitting in it then heck yeah.I was wondering if anyone was going to use the duck blind similarity.
But I'm a duck hunter and I am used to sitting in blinds someone else made
I can’t stand to just sit very long so I don’t think I could do it even if it was my stand.
If I did and the owner came along I would do the same as you and move on.
Yeah it’s just the way it works in duck hunting, first come first served. It’s hard for me to imagine feeling so territorial about a spot on public land that you could come to violence over it as some stories here have suggested.
If guys are gonna be so protective of their stands and blinds maybe they should take them down when they aren’t using them.
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Post by: ljsommer on June 24, 2019, 10:29:54 AM
If you hang a ladder stand on public ground you should have zero expectation of any sort of "ownership" over that stand or that location. It's public land, for the public (or in my case: private land with permitted access available for purchase to the general public).
Personally I wouldn't be comfortable going up in a stand I didn't hang. Aside from a general position of respecting the property of someone else, I think it's wise to avoid any unnecessary confrontation in the hunting woods.
Post by: Pegasus on June 24, 2019, 10:36:34 AM
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 10:37:58 AM
Besides just the ethics of the situation making it a bad idea there are other reasons not to do it. I know a guy who found someone sitting in his stand and the stand squatter ended up with 4 flat tires. I know of another situation where a guy tried chopping the tree down with the stand poacher still in it. :chuckle: I don’t agree with doing that either but you never know the mental state of the hunter who owns the stand ha ha . I know both guys and if you met them on the street nice guys but there are some Idaho hunters who are psycho when it comes to their elk spots. I respect others property in the woods because that’s how I want my stuff treated but pissing off the wrong guy could end badly and they might not let you leave politely :chuckle:
:yeah: :bdid:
Someone might find themselves getting drug down out of the treestand by their testicles >:(
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 10:48:33 AM
I've never combat hunted, so my lens of ethics will differ, I stay away from people and if I can hunt all day long and not see another hunter its a good day! most of my hunting days are good days! I rarely see anyone.
My lens of ethics are going to be very different.
So if a "combat hunter" comes into my area and hunts applying their lens of ethics there's going to be big trouble, and if I went to your combat hunting areas and applied my lens of ethics hell I'd never see anything other than other hunters! I'd walk away from all the hot areas disgusted at all the hunters all up in one anothers spots.
So IMO people need to change their ethics depending on which region and hunt they're on.
Post by: bhawley76 on June 24, 2019, 11:17:30 AM
Post by: h20hunter on June 24, 2019, 11:21:48 AM
Post by: rasbo on June 24, 2019, 11:26:23 AM
Post by: jackelope on June 24, 2019, 11:40:13 AM
Typically the stands require bait to be active, if the stands are 'freshened up' with bait then they're being used and I don't want to hunt there anyways.
If the stands have been sitting dormant and there's no bait then they aren't worth sitting in.
What I wouldn't ever do is freshen up someone else's stand with bait, I'd make my own if I wanted to do that...I don't.
Minor thread jack, but we've killed lots of whitetails back east out of tree stands without any bait whatsoever. Put the work in patterning them and scouting and you can kill whitetails all day long without bait.
Post by: jackelope on June 24, 2019, 11:41:08 AM
Just playing the devils advocate, Would it be ok to check a camera found in the woods that wasn't yours? Some would say yes. Me not even maybe.
I say no with a capital HELL NO!
Post by: boneaddict on June 24, 2019, 11:48:57 AM
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 11:49:21 AM
Just because something is "legal" doesn't mean it's right.
Typically the stands require bait to be active, if the stands are 'freshened up' with bait then they're being used and I don't want to hunt there anyways.
If the stands have been sitting dormant and there's no bait then they aren't worth sitting in.
What I wouldn't ever do is freshen up someone else's stand with bait, I'd make my own if I wanted to do that...I don't.
Minor thread jack, but we've killed lots of whitetails back east out of tree stands without any bait whatsoever. Put the work in patterning them and scouting and you can kill whitetails all day long without bait.
Usually when I find a stand there's a bare spot in the dirt out front of the stand with holes licked down in about 6-8 inches from dumping salt and hay.
I don't disagree on patterning and being successful w/o bait, but usually when I find a stand I'm hiking back deeper in the woods to those areas and am just passing by a stand near an old overgrown road or trail.
I did find one nice stand a guy could sit on and be successful without bait, it was in a sweet funnel, but he still had bait (not that I fault that, just adds to the setup).
I admired his setup, marked it on the GPS, and haven't been back since.
Post by: bigtex on June 24, 2019, 11:51:33 AM
Even in WA its amazing how many people call wardens during deer/elk season because someone is in "their stand" or set up camp in "their camp."
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 12:28:55 PM
the key is "not tethered to law" which means it'll always be debatable, or it would be law.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on June 24, 2019, 12:29:04 PM
Like mentioned, most wouldn’t use another persons camp set up, or their vehicle parked while out recreating, why is it OK to use other items? :dunno:
Wave to the cam, sit under or near the stand(I wouldn’t) just don’t touch them....they’re not yours. SIMPLE
Post by: RockChuck on June 24, 2019, 12:44:31 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on June 24, 2019, 12:56:37 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 24, 2019, 01:59:43 PM
In eastern Oregon during general archery elk season you can't hardly find a water hole that doesn't have a tree stand on it. Guys will leave them up for the whole entire season and only sit them a couple of times/weekends. Does having a tree stand on one of these spots reserve it for the entire season for these guys? Ive never sat in someone else's stand but I wouldn't blame a guy for sitting in mine if I weren't there. Would it be ok to set up your own stand or ground bling on the same water hole?
I would think putting up your own stand would be fine. Of course, what happens when the original stand guy shows up? Are you going to leave or because you were in that piece of public land first, it's yours? That's a little like the ghost tents that people put up to hold a camping spot.
Post by: ghosthunter on June 24, 2019, 02:10:02 PM
If you are talking about a tree stand built of wood in a public area nailed to public trees, I say first come first serve.
If you are talking about personal property on public land, tree stand,pop ground blind, bike, camera, car, tent etc. No Way.
None of those items reserves a public piece of land. If you want to sit or hang something next to it fine. But I wouldn't.
I too use tree stands I find as gps marks .
If I came along and my pop up ground blind was occupied by someone else. I would say excuse me but I am here to pick up my blind and chair. And I would take my property and leave. They would be free to sit there and hunt if they wanted.
On the other hand I have found many nice wood ground blinds in the Nile. I would set in one no problem. I consider them permeant structures on public lands. There construction was probably ill legal.
I have heard stories of folks telling other folks to stay away from their spot on public land. I have never met those people. And hope I never do. I might end up in jail.
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on June 24, 2019, 02:12:48 PM
Post by: Practical Approach on June 24, 2019, 02:58:14 PM
I don't have to overthink this, my answer is no.... it's not mine or one of my friends (who I've gained permission to use from), so I have no business messing with equipment that is not mine.
Post by: Griiz on June 24, 2019, 03:37:39 PM
Post by: Billy74 on June 24, 2019, 03:48:12 PM
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Post by: Odell on June 24, 2019, 04:10:46 PM
Build your own stand and find your own spot. I’ve had *censored*s use my stands and try to beat me into them. Selfish greedy people!!!! in my opinion
What makes it your spot?
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Post by: Odell on June 24, 2019, 04:11:52 PM
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Post by: romaknows on June 24, 2019, 04:12:40 PM
Post by: donsk16 on June 24, 2019, 04:20:50 PM
Using national forests laws and guidelines as a reference, a person or their property cannot remain on dispersed national forest land for more than 14 days in a 30 day period.
I think the people breaking the law by leaving the stand are the unethical people. If you know the stand has been there for more than the legally allowed time, it isn’t their property anymore, it’s the national forest’s property (most likely the national forest rangers would dispose of their newly acquired property if they had the resources ...). If you don’t know if the stand has been there for over the legally allowed time, don’t touch it, it might be private property still.
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 04:24:52 PM
This whole thing is weird. How about don’t leave stuff on public land? Using a stand or blind is not the same thing as using a bike or tent. By leaving a stand you are taking a spot someone else could be hunting. Sometimes there is only one good spot for a stand. Why should one person be able to claim it for themselves?
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To those comparing it to your tent, underpants, etc - this is far different if the property is abandoned. Unless you leave your underpants in the woods for 2 weeks...
Using national forests laws and guidelines as a reference, a person or their property cannot remain on dispersed national forest land for more than 14 days in a 30 day period.
I think the people breaking the law by leaving the stand are the unethical people. If you know the stand has been there for more than the legally allowed time, it isn’t their property anymore, it’s the national forest’s property (most likely the national forest rangers would dispose of their newly acquired property if they had the resources ...). If you don’t know if the stand has been there for over the legally allowed time, don’t touch it, it might be private property still.
If I go camping and hang a stand for 1 or 2 weeks use and never leave to go home, is it any different than a bicycle parked near a gate?
Post by: Odell on June 24, 2019, 04:33:08 PM
This whole thing is weird. How about don’t leave stuff on public land? Using a stand or blind is not the same thing as using a bike or tent. By leaving a stand you are taking a spot someone else could be hunting. Sometimes there is only one good spot for a stand. Why should one person be able to claim it for themselves?
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTo those comparing it to your tent, underpants, etc - this is far different if the property is abandoned. Unless you leave your underpants in the woods for 2 weeks...
Using national forests laws and guidelines as a reference, a person or their property cannot remain on dispersed national forest land for more than 14 days in a 30 day period.
I think the people breaking the law by leaving the stand are the unethical people. If you know the stand has been there for more than the legally allowed time, it isn’t their property anymore, it’s the national forest’s property (most likely the national forest rangers would dispose of their newly acquired property if they had the resources ...). If you don’t know if the stand has been there for over the legally allowed time, don’t touch it, it might be private property still.
If I go camping and hang a stand for 1 or 2 weeks use and never leave to go home, is it any different than a bicycle parked near a gate?
Yes. If no one else can use it your stand is keeping people from being able to hunt that spot.
Why it is so hard to take it down when you are done?
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 04:40:34 PM
Post by: Odell on June 24, 2019, 04:50:48 PM
So I should uproot my camp each night and find a new spot each morning? In case someone else wants that spot?
No. But if you sleep in your tree stand you won't have to worry about someone hunting it.
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 04:58:07 PM
Post by: donsk16 on June 24, 2019, 06:07:06 PM
This whole thing is weird. How about don’t leave stuff on public land? Using a stand or blind is not the same thing as using a bike or tent. By leaving a stand you are taking a spot someone else could be hunting. Sometimes there is only one good spot for a stand. Why should one person be able to claim it for themselves?
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTo those comparing it to your tent, underpants, etc - this is far different if the property is abandoned. Unless you leave your underpants in the woods for 2 weeks...
Using national forests laws and guidelines as a reference, a person or their property cannot remain on dispersed national forest land for more than 14 days in a 30 day period.
I think the people breaking the law by leaving the stand are the unethical people. If you know the stand has been there for more than the legally allowed time, it isn’t their property anymore, it’s the national forest’s property (most likely the national forest rangers would dispose of their newly acquired property if they had the resources ...). If you don’t know if the stand has been there for over the legally allowed time, don’t touch it, it might be private property still.
If I go camping and hang a stand for 1 or 2 weeks use and never leave to go home, is it any different than a bicycle parked near a gate?
Not sure how your examples are relevant to what I said....if you leave your camp for 2+ weeks, your bike at a gate for 2+ weeks or your tree stand in a tree for 2+ weeks on NF land, it’s illegal and the NF will dispose of the property that was abandoned on their (or our) land. To leave any of those in place for long periods is also very disrespectful to others who want to use that land, tree, camping spot etc. and you shouldn’t be upset if others want to use that camping spot, parking spot or tree stand.
Post by: meatwhack on June 24, 2019, 06:39:15 PM
Post by: huntnfmly on June 24, 2019, 07:02:16 PM
It's really simple if it's not yours don't mess with or use I don't care how long it's been out there except for obviously abandoned stands that are rusted away or fell down
Post by: dwils233 on June 24, 2019, 07:17:58 PM
These type of threads always amaze but enlightens me to the ethics of alot of the members on here.
It's really simple if it's not yours don't mess with or use I don't care how long it's been out there except for obviously abandoned stands that are rusted away or fell down
Because ethics can be collective and individual you're always going to get a million perspectives. After all, the leave no trace ethic is a very common one and does apply to leaving your stuff in the woods...but different people would argue even that point.
I don't think I'm likely to sit someone else's stand but I also don't think people should be leave something out for weeks or months at a time in public lands. At the very least, it should be like baiting bear in idaho- marked with a tag issued to the owner and required removal dates
Post by: Odell on June 24, 2019, 07:25:35 PM
These type of threads always amaze but enlightens me to the ethics of alot of the members on here.
It's really simple if it's not yours don't mess with or use I don't care how long it's been out there except for obviously abandoned stands that are rusted away or fell down
Let’s say you pack your stand into a wallow you have hunted before. There sits some other stand on the only tree that allows you to hunt this spot with the current wind direction.
You just leave because some other hunter was so lazy they can’t be bothered to pack their stand out?
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Post by: huntnfmly on June 24, 2019, 07:31:42 PM
I have no problem with that and I've always had the mindset that if someone leaves a stand or pop up blind left up how about putting the times and dates that you would be using them and allowing people to use on the other days and I know people will say what would keep someone from putting the whole season for the dates they are using it but then you're just back to if it's not yours leave it aloneThese type of threads always amaze but enlightens me to the ethics of alot of the members on here.
It's really simple if it's not yours don't mess with or use I don't care how long it's been out there except for obviously abandoned stands that are rusted away or fell down
Because ethics can be collective and individual you're always going to get a million perspectives. After all, the leave no trace ethic is a very common one and does apply to leaving your stuff in the woods...but different people would argue even that point.
I don't think I'm likely to sit someone else's stand but I also don't think people should be leave something out for weeks or months at a time in public lands. At the very least, it should be like baiting bear in idaho- marked with a tag issued to the owner and required removal dates
Post by: KFhunter on June 24, 2019, 07:33:55 PM
These type of threads always amaze but enlightens me to the ethics of alot of the members on here.
It's really simple if it's not yours don't mess with or use I don't care how long it's been out there except for obviously abandoned stands that are rusted away or fell down
Because ethics can be collective and individual you're always going to get a million perspectives. After all, the leave no trace ethic is a very common one and does apply to leaving your stuff in the woods...but different people would argue even that point.
I don't think I'm likely to sit someone else's stand but I also don't think people should be leave something out for weeks or months at a time in public lands. At the very least, it should be like baiting bear in idaho- marked with a tag issued to the owner and required removal dates
What I see is a huge difference in E side vs W side hunter ethics. I'm not faulting W/WA hunters its just that there's far more competition for space and animals, so hanging a stand and expecting it to not get used isn't the same.
We're all a product of our experience and apply our ethics according to that experience, if you're used to combat hunting then your ethics will be very different than someone who rarely see's another hunter in a weeks hunt.
If anyone gets anything out of this thread it's perhaps that your ethics should fit the area and hunt that you're in. If you've combat hunted your whole life then go and hunt right on top of other hunters in an out of state or rural area its going to be frowned upon, likewise if you're a rural hunter that never see's anyone and you go on a combat hunt then you need to change your game plan and prepare to rub elbows and chase your game right after the shot.
Post by: huntnfmly on June 24, 2019, 07:34:37 PM
No sir just place your stand somewhere out of sight then sit at the base of the tree the stand is on and hunt the wallowThese type of threads always amaze but enlightens me to the ethics of alot of the members on here.
It's really simple if it's not yours don't mess with or use I don't care how long it's been out there except for obviously abandoned stands that are rusted away or fell down
Let’s say you pack your stand into a wallow you have hunted before. There sits some other stand on the only tree that allows you to hunt this spot with the current wind direction.
You just leave because some other hunter was so lazy they can’t be bothered to pack their stand out?
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Post by: meatwhack on June 24, 2019, 08:26:17 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on June 25, 2019, 01:23:21 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on June 25, 2019, 02:20:10 PM
As my friend and his buddy skirted a wooded swamp, they noticed a recently hung tree stand on "their" hunting land. One was inspired to climb up and leave his "morning constitutional" on the trespasser's stand.
That evening, driving home the stepfather was silent. My friend asked what was wrong, he said "I came up last week and hung a tree stand by the swamp. Some sick @#$%^&*( ..."
Post by: Fl0und3rz on June 25, 2019, 02:26:21 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on June 25, 2019, 03:33:56 PM
Post by: Odell on June 25, 2019, 04:56:11 PM
My neighbor has left his truck parked in the public right of way for more than a few weeks at a time, is that long enough for me to go use it?
There are different rules for different types of abandoned property. Depends on where and what. To have an abandoned car towed contact your local municipality.
Tree stands in national forest are allowed as long as they are not left unattended. Pack them in and out.
Different rules on different properties.
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Post by: Jpmiller on June 25, 2019, 05:12:02 PM
My neighbor has left his truck parked in the public right of way for more than a few weeks at a time, is that long enough for me to go use it?
There are different rules for different types of abandoned property. Depends on where and what. To have an abandoned car towed contact your local municipality.
Tree stands in national forest are allowed as long as they are not left unattended. Pack them in and out.
Different rules on different properties.
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The national Forest isn't a wild west free for all just like the street in front of my house isn't. Just as the appropriate response to a truck parked on the street unmoving for weeks or months (never actually bothered me for the record just using it in the example) should be dealt with by notifying the authorities and letting them sort it out so to should a tree stand. Vigilante justice is pretty well always a bad idea.
Post by: meatwhack on June 25, 2019, 05:37:20 PM
Post by: huntnfmly on June 25, 2019, 05:43:50 PM
Years ago, a friend's stepfather had exclusive hunting rights on a choice piece of private property: and had been told anyone else in there was trespassing. During deer season the stepfather often took my friend and his friend (high school age) hunting on the weekends. One day they arrived as usual, the two friends went one way while the stepdad went the other.😆😆
As my friend and his buddy skirted a wooded swamp, they noticed a recently hung tree stand on "their" hunting land. One was inspired to climb up and leave his "morning constitutional" on the trespasser's stand.
That evening, driving home the stepfather was silent. My friend asked what was wrong, he said "I came up last week and hung a tree stand by the swamp. Some sick @#$%^&*( ..."
Post by: Jpmiller on June 25, 2019, 05:58:35 PM
Comparing this to an abandoned vehicle is a pretty poor comparison but whatever floats your boat. I’m also fairly sure on most public land as well as most timber company land it’s illegal to leave permanent stands which if they’ve been there years that’s considered permanent.
That's pretty much what I'm saying. If it's against the law and we have law enforcement to enforce those laws why would I think that it's my responsibility to take action against it without involving them? I didn't make the rules, I am not charged with enforcing the rules, I don't know the big picture of what's all going on in the area with whom, it's not my stand, I say leave it alone and report it if you want but don't climb into it.
Post by: Odell on June 25, 2019, 06:38:46 PM
Comparing this to an abandoned vehicle is a pretty poor comparison but whatever floats your boat. I’m also fairly sure on most public land as well as most timber company land it’s illegal to leave permanent stands which if they’ve been there years that’s considered permanent.
That's pretty much what I'm saying. If it's against the law and we have law enforcement to enforce those laws why would I think that it's my responsibility to take action against it without involving them? I didn't make the rules, I am not charged with enforcing the rules, I don't know the big picture of what's all going on in the area with whom, it's not my stand, I say leave it alone and report it if you want but don't climb into it.
This is an ethical thread, not a legal thread. Asking individual ethics. If someone is trying to block me from hunting public land, i'm not losing sleep over moving or using a stand. And I would move a truck blocking me if I could do it without damaging it. Just like I would take down a fake "no trespassing/hunting" sign on public land.
I understand some of you hold an ethic that apparently keeps you from even touching something you don't own. I have no problem with that. I just don't see it the same way. Public hunting has enough challenges without people leaving stands and blinds up expecting that you can't hunt that spot.
Post by: KFhunter on June 25, 2019, 07:34:01 PM
I understand some of you hold an ethic that apparently keeps you from even touching something you don't own. I have no problem with that. I just don't see it the same way.
The problem is people DO see it that way, so there is going to be conflict when you touch something that doesn't belong to you.
Depending on the person, it could be a lot of conflict, or it could be just a little bit of conflict.
Are you a gambling man?
Post by: full choke on June 25, 2019, 07:39:59 PM
I understand some of you hold an ethic that apparently keeps you from even touching something you don't own. I have no problem with that. I just don't see it the same way.
The problem is people DO see it that way, so there is going to be conflict when you touch something that doesn't belong to you.
Depending on the person, it could be a lot of conflict, or it could be just a little bit of conflict.
Are you a gambling man?
What if that conflict arises because someone was tired of seeing others leave their trash (stand) laying around?
If you are uncomfortable with someone using your stand (on public ground)- pack it out with you. Seems pretty simple.
There would be no problems...
Post by: KFhunter on June 25, 2019, 08:02:12 PM
I contend that if I'm using it and intend to use it again then its not abandoned, it is still my property until it is lawfully seized as abandoned, which you do not have that authority.
You have no authority to say what is or isn't abandoned.
Post by: bigdub257 on June 25, 2019, 08:03:12 PM
If you are uncomfortable with someone using your stand (on public ground)- pack it out with you. Seems pretty simple.
There would be no problems...
[/quote]
:yeah:
Post by: meatwhack on June 25, 2019, 08:49:32 PM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on June 25, 2019, 08:56:07 PM
Comparing this to an abandoned vehicle is a pretty poor comparison but whatever floats your boat. I’m also fairly sure on most public land as well as most timber company land it’s illegal to leave permanent stands which if they’ve been there years that’s considered permanent.
That's pretty much what I'm saying. If it's against the law and we have law enforcement to enforce those laws why would I think that it's my responsibility to take action against it without involving them? I didn't make the rules, I am not charged with enforcing the rules, I don't know the big picture of what's all going on in the area with whom, it's not my stand, I say leave it alone and report it if you want but don't climb into it.
This is an ethical thread, not a legal thread. Asking individual ethics. If someone is trying to block me from hunting public land, i'm not losing sleep over moving or using a stand. And I would move a truck blocking me if I could do it without damaging it. Just like I would take down a fake "no trespassing/hunting" sign on public land.
I understand some of you hold an ethic that apparently keeps you from even touching something you don't own. I have no problem with that. I just don't see it the same way. Public hunting has enough challenges without people leaving stands and blinds up expecting that you can't hunt that spot.
1. Do you really believe that folks use tree stands as a means of "blocking you" from hunting public land?
…..Wow, I personally believe very few, if any others do it for that reason.
2. You would move a truck that was, again, "blocking" you?
….What gives you more right to be there than the truck owner who was there 1st?
Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it sure appears there is a sense of entitlement here.....the exact thing you are against. :dunno:
Post by: idaho guy on June 25, 2019, 09:02:53 PM
Comparing this to an abandoned vehicle is a pretty poor comparison but whatever floats your boat. I’m also fairly sure on most public land as well as most timber company land it’s illegal to leave permanent stands which if they’ve been there years that’s considered permanent.
That's pretty much what I'm saying. If it's against the law and we have law enforcement to enforce those laws why would I think that it's my responsibility to take action against it without involving them? I didn't make the rules, I am not charged with enforcing the rules, I don't know the big picture of what's all going on in the area with whom, it's not my stand, I say leave it alone and report it if you want but don't climb into it.
This is an ethical thread, not a legal thread. Asking individual ethics. If someone is trying to block me from hunting public land, i'm not losing sleep over moving or using a stand. And I would move a truck blocking me if I could do it without damaging it. Just like I would take down a fake "no trespassing/hunting" sign on public land.
I understand some of you hold an ethic that apparently keeps you from even touching something you don't own. I have no problem with that. I just don't see it the same way. Public hunting has enough challenges without people leaving stands and blinds up expecting that you can't hunt that spot.
No one said a tree stand means you can’t hunt the spot. Just don’t sit in the stand since it’s not yours. It just seems like common sense to me but whatever. :tup: I might think about it on one that I know has been abandoned for years And it’s obvious no one has been hunting out of it.
Post by: full choke on June 25, 2019, 09:53:07 PM
Who say's I must remove a stand each time I'm done hunting for the day? Some national forests have rules saying stands must be portable and not damage trees, but no where does it say I must remove it daily, they say if a hunter is on a hunt they they aren't obligated to move camp every 72 hours, the recent rule change freaked out some hunters who make a base camp then hike into a spike camp.
I contend that if I'm using it and intend to use it again then its not abandoned, it is still my property until it is lawfully seized as abandoned, which you do not have that authority.
You have no authority to say what is or isn't abandoned.
I never said you had to remove your stand. I simply said- if you are uncomfortable with someone else using the stand you left on public ground- pack it out with you.
For the record- I wouldn't hunt someone else's deer stand if I came across it. But I don't feel they should have the expectation that no one else should either.
As for a duck blind- 100% I would hunt out of it if I was there first. 100%
Post by: KFhunter on June 25, 2019, 10:29:07 PM
if it isn't mine I don't mess with it, and if it is mine you shouldn't be.
Post by: Platensek-po on June 26, 2019, 01:30:12 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on June 26, 2019, 05:21:46 AM
Post by: buglebrush on June 26, 2019, 06:53:58 AM
So if I build a cabin on public land it’s mina Nd mine only and no one else should use it?? Sounds like it’s no longer public land and you are claiming it as your own private property. While the stand may be yours the land and trees it is on are not. Seems like a fine line to claim a patch of public property just by putting your private property on it.
Guess by your logic I'm going to be claiming your truck if I ever find it on public land.
Post by: Jonathan_S on June 26, 2019, 07:13:26 AM
If I found somebody in my stand, I would not be outraged as much as I would be confused. I usually have 3+ stands in a given "area" so if somebody else is at "my" gate or cutting wood, or riding
dirtbikes etc. I'll go to another stand
Post by: NOCK NOCK on June 26, 2019, 08:14:00 AM
Do you go ahead and set up your family in spot #7 with the Smith's.....telling them that its public land....your family is blocking my family from having a picnic? or Do you move along and find another spot to picnic?
Why is hunting any different?
The stand owner is not trying to "reserve" his spot in the woods, telling all others "this is my area", he simply found a good looking area that he wants to hunt.
If you come across another's stand, YES its public land, sit below the tree, walk the area, climb the tree and sit on a branch, hunt it however you see fit, just DO NOT TOUCH other folks stuff, its not yours.
THIS :tup: :tup:
It's a strange concept to me, the idea of finding somebody else's stand and wanting to sit in it. I prefer not running into other people in the woods and that seems like it would be easier to do if I stay off their equipment.
If I found somebody in my stand, I would not be outraged as much as I would be confused. I usually have 3+ stands in a given "area" so if somebody else is at "my" gate or cutting wood, or riding
dirtbikes etc. I'll go to another stand
Post by: jstone on June 26, 2019, 08:17:20 AM
Post by: SuperX on June 26, 2019, 08:27:38 AM
If someone builds a duck blind on a good spot, I'd sit in it every day - too easy to 'lock up' a commanding point with a couple pallets and some camo netting.
Post by: hunter399 on June 26, 2019, 08:31:39 AM
Post by: SuperX on June 26, 2019, 08:54:09 AM
What if there was no stand,but just bait ,trail cam,and a Hunter actively hunting .Woulnd you set up 40 yards away and hunt this spot or would you find a different spot to hunt.If you're directing that toward me, I don't hunt over bait or use trail cams, so I don't think of those things as someone 'actively hunting'. I have respect for boundaries and giving the other hunter space so if I see the hunter, I'll move on unless I'm there first. If I see a camera or empty ground blind / stand or a lick, I'm not going to leave just because of that.
Post by: full choke on June 26, 2019, 09:11:05 AM
So you and your family are going to a Forest service campground for a day trip to have a picnic. There are 10 designated spots in this campground. When you arrive, they are all occupied by other picnicker's.
Do you go ahead and set up your family in spot #7 with the Smith's.....telling them that its public land....your family is blocking my family from having a picnic? or Do you move along and find another spot to picnic?
Why is hunting any different?
The stand owner is not trying to "reserve" his spot in the woods, telling all others "this is my area", he simply found a good looking area that he wants to hunt.
If you come across another's stand, YES its public land, sit below the tree, walk the area, climb the tree and sit on a branch, hunt it however you see fit, just DO NOT TOUCH other folks stuff, its not yours.
That is really not the same analogy.
If spot #7 was empty, except for a table cloth that Mr Smith left there because he planned to be back at some other time to picnic there with his family- then we would be talking about the same thing.
Is it ok for Mr Smith to assume, that since his table cloth is there, that someone else should not use it while he was not there? Maybe the new group should politely fold the cloth up and set it aside, use there own cloth for their picnic and put Mr Smiths back when they are done? Maybe.
But the consensus on this thread says I should not even touch Mr Smiths table cloth. I should go find another picnic table to use.
But why should Mr Smith get to leave his crap out in the campground when he was not there? Nevermind- that is ok, because Mr Smith was there at some point and wanted to picnic there again. He shouldn't have to remove his table cloth, and you shouldn't touch it either.
Post by: hunter399 on June 26, 2019, 09:25:56 AM
No I'm not directing it at anybody.What if there was no stand,but just bait ,trail cam,and a Hunter actively hunting .Woulnd you set up 40 yards away and hunt this spot or would you find a different spot to hunt.If you're directing that toward me, I don't hunt over bait or use trail cams, so I don't think of those things as someone 'actively hunting'. I have respect for boundaries and giving the other hunter space so if I see the hunter, I'll move on unless I'm there first. If I see a camera or empty ground blind / stand or a lick, I'm not going to leave just because of that.
But had this same exact thing happen to me last year.
I put out cams ,bait,for about 6-4 month before seasons start in spring.
So I show up maybe 2:00 in the afternoon to hunt this spot public land nobody there .well a few hours later guy pulls up in his truck .which was fine with I figured he would hunt the opposite side of road.not long he is sittin maybe 30 yards away from me.I also had some strange files on my sd card which seemed to me he had been checking my cam maybe a few days before deer season started.anyway I hunted it Anyway till almost dark then left pretty disgusted .
I know public land and all that.But I have never had anybody sit 30 yards from me and hunt the same draw trying to see who is quicker on the trigger.
Never the less not a good feeling when you spent your hard earned money on,salt,corn,grain,to check your cam days before the season,if he would of been there first I would of gladly moved on and hunted somewhere else I would never sit 30 yards from someone like.never will I put a cam in that spot.
And no I have never hunted in someone's stand.but I might ground hunt if no one is there.
Post by: 2MANY on June 26, 2019, 09:28:18 AM
Find it.
Post by: SuperX on June 26, 2019, 09:29:22 AM
Hunting is about seclusion for me.
Find it.
Me too, well said!
Post by: SuperX on June 26, 2019, 09:39:51 AM
I feel for ya! I had a similar thing happen elk hunting this past season. After setting up my tent, I had a group of 8! hunters walk down the river 100 yards and stomp a new campsite into the brush on the bank and hunt there when they found I was "in their spot" that I've been hunting 3+ years. Never mind an older gentleman had set his tent up right across the river within 50y and told them he was there first when they were still breaking brush to set up a tent. They ignored him.No I'm not directing it at anybody.What if there was no stand,but just bait ,trail cam,and a Hunter actively hunting .Woulnd you set up 40 yards away and hunt this spot or would you find a different spot to hunt.If you're directing that toward me, I don't hunt over bait or use trail cams, so I don't think of those things as someone 'actively hunting'. I have respect for boundaries and giving the other hunter space so if I see the hunter, I'll move on unless I'm there first. If I see a camera or empty ground blind / stand or a lick, I'm not going to leave just because of that.
But had this same exact thing happen to me last year.
I put out cams ,bait,for about 6-4 month before seasons start in spring.
So I show up maybe 2:00 in the afternoon to hunt this spot public land nobody there .well a few hours later guy pulls up in his truck .which was fine with I figured he would hunt the opposite side of road.not long he is sittin maybe 30 yards away from me.I also had some strange files on my sd card which seemed to me he had been checking my cam maybe a few days before deer season started.anyway I hunted it Anyway till almost dark then left pretty disgusted .
I know public land and all that.But I have never had anybody sit 30 yards from me and hunt the same draw trying to see who is quicker on the trigger.
Never the less not a good feeling when you spent your hard earned money on,salt,corn,grain,to check your cam days before the season,if he would of been there first I would of gladly moved on and hunted somewhere else I would never sit 30 yards from someone like.never will I put a cam in that spot.
And no I have never hunted in someone's stand.but I might ground hunt if no one is there.
Every time I broke a branch or cow called, some 'guide' would run up the hill with a bugle tube and bedraggled hunter dogging him and blow up my calling spot. I nicked named the duo 'angry red face guy' (cause he always looked mad and was beet red) and booney boots (booney hat and always watching his feet instead of the woods).
I'm hunting MT this year.
Post by: OutHouse on June 26, 2019, 10:00:08 AM
Post by: Odell on June 26, 2019, 10:46:07 AM
Comparing this to an abandoned vehicle is a pretty poor comparison but whatever floats your boat. I’m also fairly sure on most public land as well as most timber company land it’s illegal to leave permanent stands which if they’ve been there years that’s considered permanent.
That's pretty much what I'm saying. If it's against the law and we have law enforcement to enforce those laws why would I think that it's my responsibility to take action against it without involving them? I didn't make the rules, I am not charged with enforcing the rules, I don't know the big picture of what's all going on in the area with whom, it's not my stand, I say leave it alone and report it if you want but don't climb into it.
This is an ethical thread, not a legal thread. Asking individual ethics. If someone is trying to block me from hunting public land, i'm not losing sleep over moving or using a stand. And I would move a truck blocking me if I could do it without damaging it. Just like I would take down a fake "no trespassing/hunting" sign on public land.
I understand some of you hold an ethic that apparently keeps you from even touching something you don't own. I have no problem with that. I just don't see it the same way. Public hunting has enough challenges without people leaving stands and blinds up expecting that you can't hunt that spot.
1. Do you really believe that folks use tree stands as a means of "blocking you" from hunting public land?
…..Wow, I personally believe very few, if any others do it for that reason.
2. You would move a truck that was, again, "blocking" you?
….What gives you more right to be there than the truck owner who was there 1st?
Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it sure appears there is a sense of entitlement here.....the exact thing you are against. :dunno:
First off, I've never done either. This is all hypothetical. I've also never hunted from a tree stand in my life and only from blinds on private property. So don't get too carried away.
But lets say I have a blue Mnt Elk tag and I come around a corner and find a truck with a big Mossback sticker on it, intentionally blocking the road so no one can drive any further, even though there are miles of open road ahead. If that truck is unlocked, they will return to find it parked nicely on the shoulder instead of the middle of the road. Yes, people intentionally block roads with their trucks to keep others from hunting. This absolutely happens.
If the ethics of finding a stand or a blind in the woods somehow means "you can't hunt here because my stand is here" (as many on this thread have implied) then they are blocking anyone else from hunting there. They are certainly blocking the tree that another stand hunter might want to use. If I had a stand and needed the tree, I would have no problem moving that tree stand in order to make room for mine, or just using it.
Just keep in mind all you judgmental types that this only makes me a scumbag hypothetically, I've never actually done any of this...
Post by: huntnfmly on June 26, 2019, 07:31:23 PM
Nobody is saying you can't hunt a spot because their stand or blind is there all the ethical people are saying is don't f with other people's stuff and if you're wondering if I'm calling anybody who messes with other people's stuff as in this thread in ethical I am. This is seriously stuff that kindergarten kids know if it's not yours leave it alone
I seriously cannot believe that some of you think it's ok.
Post by: KFhunter on June 26, 2019, 07:43:50 PM
So if someone happens to find my setup and uses it, it's because their a slob hunter and want to steal my hard work, steal my time, steal my money I spent scouting, and theft of the use of my gear I carefully setup for temporary use. Also its a theft of my day off work because I'm going to be mad all day long and unable to enjoy the rest of my hunt.
There's a ton of other places to hunt with nobody in it to make their own setups w/o stealing mine.
Yes I have and use a climber, but I also have multiple hang on stands and no I'm not going to remove them each day, typically I only have one stand up at a time though as hanging stands attract attention. I also think hang on stands are quieter (already hung) and much safer to use. I also take the steps with me to discourage climbing in them, I use lone wolf ladder sections.
Post by: buckfvr on June 26, 2019, 07:51:06 PM
Post by: jackelope on June 26, 2019, 07:55:46 PM
On national forest the rule is actually not to be left unattended. So is it ethical for someone to not follow that rule by leaving a stand up to try and save their hunting spot on public land.
Source?
Post by: Odell on June 26, 2019, 07:57:51 PM
You can find it on the usda website.On national forest the rule is actually not to be left unattended. So is it ethical for someone to not follow that rule by leaving a stand up to try and save their hunting spot on public land.
Source?
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Post by: Odell on June 26, 2019, 08:00:50 PM
This thread is amazing.
Nobody is saying you can't hunt a spot because their stand or blind is there all the ethical people are saying is don't f with other people's stuff and if you're wondering if I'm calling anybody who messes with other people's stuff as in this thread in ethical I am. This is seriously stuff that kindergarten kids know if it's not yours leave it alone
I seriously cannot believe that some of you think it's ok.
The post literally below yours says to hunt where his stand is means you have stolen from him.
I respect private property. I respect the idea that public land belongs to us all. When they come in conflict with each other, public land for hunting trumps private property left on it.
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Post by: KFhunter on June 26, 2019, 11:21:41 PM
You can find it on the usda website.On national forest the rule is actually not to be left unattended. So is it ethical for someone to not follow that rule by leaving a stand up to try and save their hunting spot on public land.
Source?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
each national forest has its own rules set by the director for that region, the Colville national forest has no specific rule on tree stands or salt licks or bait or ground blinds, yet if you go to another national forest page they may have rules that say it must not be abandoned, but they do not quantify what abandoned means.
There is no set time limit to when an item becomes "abandoned", and besides you do not have the authority to declare a thing abandoned.
Even if you did have that authority, say you worked for USFS, you could not do it unless on duty then you couldn't hunt anyways, and if you did it off duty to hunt there then you'd violate color of law.
but this is an ethics thread, but it seems some people's ethics are married to the law, which means they have no ethics, because ethics go beyond what the law requires.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on June 27, 2019, 04:59:39 AM
Post by: meatwhack on June 27, 2019, 05:03:34 AM
Post by: meatwhack on June 27, 2019, 05:06:13 AM
On national forest the rule is actually not to be left unattended. So is it ethical for someone to not follow that rule by leaving a stand up to try and save their hunting spot on public land.
Source?
This applies to all NF ground also not just some like a few guys think.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/cs/detail/!ut/p/z1/04_Sj9CPykssy0xPLMnMz0vMAfIjo8zijQwgwNHCwN_DI8zPyBcqYKAfjlVBmA9cQRQx-g1wAEci9eNREIXf-HD9KKxWIPuAkBle-lHpOflJkOByzEsytkjXjypKTUstSi3SKy0CCmeUlBQUW6kaqBqUl5frpefnp-ek6iXn56oaYNOSkV9coh-BqlK_IDc0NMIgyzSnzMcRAIRE-zk!/dz/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/?position=Not&navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&ss=110304&pnavid=null&navid=091000000000000&cid=fsbdev3_054859#treestand
Post by: Jonathan_S on June 27, 2019, 05:39:29 AM
I’ve got a question for the guys hanging multiple stands and leaving them or even just a single stand. Would you be just as upset if someone was sitting at the base of the tree your stand is in as if they were actually in it and also would you expect them to move if you showed up.
I addressed this very directly in an earlier post but I'm also curious why you ask?
Post by: huntnnw on June 27, 2019, 05:52:34 AM
Post by: Odell on June 27, 2019, 05:53:52 AM
You can find it on the usda website.On national forest the rule is actually not to be left unattended. So is it ethical for someone to not follow that rule by leaving a stand up to try and save their hunting spot on public land.
Source?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
each national forest has its own rules set by the director for that region, the Colville national forest has no specific rule on tree stands or salt licks or bait or ground blinds, yet if you go to another national forest page they may have rules that say it must not be abandoned, but they do not quantify what abandoned means.
There is no set time limit to when an item becomes "abandoned", and besides you do not have the authority to declare a thing abandoned.
The ones i have read specifically quantified it as ‘not in your possession’ meaning if you leave it in the tree after hunting you have broken the rules.
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Post by: KFhunter on June 27, 2019, 07:04:08 AM
I’ve got a question for the guys hanging multiple stands and leaving them or even just a single stand. Would you be just as upset if someone was sitting at the base of the tree your stand is in as if they were actually in it and also would you expect them to move if you showed up.I'd climb in my stand, not my fault they think its raining later when I eventually gotta :pee:
Seriously though, this is a dumb question, no ones gonna park their butt at the base of a tree I got a stand in. Why would they?
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Post by: NOCK NOCK on June 27, 2019, 07:44:23 AM
You can find it on the usda website.On national forest the rule is actually not to be left unattended. So is it ethical for someone to not follow that rule by leaving a stand up to try and save their hunting spot on public land.
Source?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
each national forest has its own rules set by the director for that region, the Colville national forest has no specific rule on tree stands or salt licks or bait or ground blinds, yet if you go to another national forest page they may have rules that say it must not be abandoned, but they do not quantify what abandoned means.
There is no set time limit to when an item becomes "abandoned", and besides you do not have the authority to declare a thing abandoned.
The ones i have read specifically quantified it as ‘not in your possession’ meaning if you leave it in the tree after hunting you have broken the rules.
Ugh
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Possession has several meanings. Ex: possession limits for fish, how many you may have in your freezer.....but since your on vacation for 2 weeks away from your freezer..... according to this logic they are not in your possession. :dunno:
Post by: Griiz on June 27, 2019, 07:51:42 AM
I’ve got a question for the guys hanging multiple stands and leaving them or even just a single stand. Would you be just as upset if someone was sitting at the base of the tree your stand is in as if they were actually in it and also would you expect them to move if you showed up.
Nope, I don’t own the land.
Post by: Griiz on June 27, 2019, 08:01:21 AM
This whole thing is weird. How about don’t leave stuff on public land? Using a stand or blind is not the same thing as using a bike or tent. By leaving a stand you are taking a spot someone else could be hunting. Sometimes there is only one good spot for a stand. Why should one person be able to claim it for themselves?
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I guess I should be able to hop in your truck and use it since you left it parked on public land too.
I understand the situation with public land and different ethics. I don’t put my stands where other people usually go. I do research in the woods and hunt pockets that others usually don’t, but have had hunters follow me to see where I hunt as they see my animals come out and then race me to my stands. If you think that is ok, than I don’t know what to say.
Post by: hunter399 on June 27, 2019, 08:07:06 AM
Now with said if you can't afford to lose it don't put it on public property.I do have unsecured game cams , but I use cheap 30 dollar ones on public land .My more expensive ones are in homade lock boxes.
Post by: full choke on June 27, 2019, 08:09:04 AM
I’ve got a question for the guys hanging multiple stands and leaving them or even just a single stand. Would you be just as upset if someone was sitting at the base of the tree your stand is in as if they were actually in it and also would you expect them to move if you showed up.I'd climb in my stand, not my fault they think its raining later when I eventually gotta :pee:
Seriously though, this is a dumb question, no ones gonna park their butt at the base of a tree I got a stand in. Why would they?
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That question was already answered to a degree. And seems to be a pretty plausible scenario.
What if your stand was a on a wallow. Due to wind, the only available place to be was the tree your stand was in. You were not there- maybe haven't been for days/weeks, but another hunter was- and wanted to hunt that wallow.
Huntwa has established that the man who left his personal property in the woods for however long is clearly in the right- so the new hunter has no choice but to sit at the base of the tree.
Along comes the stand owner- and he is upset that someone is hunting "his" wallow, under "his" stand-so he climbs up the tree and pee's on him.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on June 27, 2019, 08:22:23 AM
If I stumble on a cam, I spin on my heels and circle it as to not contaminate the site. If I see a stand I do the same thing. It's not mine, I didnt put in the work to earn the money to purchase the gear, I didnt put in the work to get it there, and I didnt put in the work to maintain it.
This whole "its public land so I have the right" crap is such a lame argument for just being a greedy as*ho**. Put in your own work and put in your own time, dont leech off of others. I demand better from my fellow sportsmen :twocents:
Post by: NOCK NOCK on June 27, 2019, 08:23:59 AM
I’ve got a question for the guys hanging multiple stands and leaving them or even just a single stand. Would you be just as upset if someone was sitting at the base of the tree your stand is in as if they were actually in it and also would you expect them to move if you showed up.
If you were the guy sitting at the base of a tree with someone else’s stand in it, and the stand owner showed up, climbed into his stand, and sat there to hunt. Would you be upset??
Post by: meatwhack on June 27, 2019, 08:37:55 AM
I’ve got a question for the guys hanging multiple stands and leaving them or even just a single stand. Would you be just as upset if someone was sitting at the base of the tree your stand is in as if they were actually in it and also would you expect them to move if you showed up.
If you were the guy sitting at the base of a tree with someone else’s stand in it, and the stand owner showed up, climbed into his stand, and sat there to hunt. Would you be upset??
I’d say I had more right to be there if I showed up first that day over someone who hung a stand months or years ago but I’m sure some won’t agree with that. Just like a fishing spot. If I go set a lawn chair on the bank somewhere before the season opens does that mean nobody should fish within 100’ of it even if I’m not there or if I show up they should leave because I marked my spot with a lawn chair.
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 27, 2019, 08:45:22 AM
I’ve got a question for the guys hanging multiple stands and leaving them or even just a single stand. Would you be just as upset if someone was sitting at the base of the tree your stand is in as if they were actually in it and also would you expect them to move if you showed up.
If you were the guy sitting at the base of a tree with someone else’s stand in it, and the stand owner showed up, climbed into his stand, and sat there to hunt. Would you be upset??
I’d say I had more right to be there if I showed up first that day over someone who hung a stand months or years ago but I’m sure some won’t agree with that. Just like a fishing spot. If I go set a lawn chair on the bank somewhere before the season opens does that mean nobody should fish within 100’ of it even if I’m not there or if I show up they should leave because I marked my spot with a lawn chair.
Public land, first come, first serve. That's the chance you take when you put up your stand. This is especially true if I've been scouting that spot for months and all of a sudden, a stand appears. Just leaving your private property on public land doesn't give you rights over anyone else.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on June 27, 2019, 09:16:13 AM
I’ve got a question for the guys hanging multiple stands and leaving them or even just a single stand. Would you be just as upset if someone was sitting at the base of the tree your stand is in as if they were actually in it and also would you expect them to move if you showed up.
If you were the guy sitting at the base of a tree with someone else’s stand in it, and the stand owner showed up, climbed into his stand, and sat there to hunt. Would you be upset??
I’d say I had more right to be there if I showed up first that day over someone who hung a stand months or years ago but I’m sure some won’t agree with that. Just like a fishing spot. If I go set a lawn chair on the bank somewhere before the season opens does that mean nobody should fish within 100’ of it even if I’m not there or if I show up they should leave because I marked my spot with a lawn chair.
Public land, first come, first serve. That's the chance you take when you put up your stand. This is especially true if I've been scouting that spot for months and all of a sudden, a stand appears. Just leaving your private property on public land doesn't give you rights over anyone else.
Nor does being there first according to some. It’s public land, why does the guy on the ground have more “rights” than the 2nd guy who climbed above him?
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 27, 2019, 09:25:38 AM
Post by: SuperX on June 27, 2019, 09:28:27 AM
Post by: bigdub257 on June 27, 2019, 09:31:13 AM
I’ve got a question for the guys hanging multiple stands and leaving them or even just a single stand. Would you be just as upset if someone was sitting at the base of the tree your stand is in as if they were actually in it and also would you expect them to move if you showed up.
If you were the guy sitting at the base of a tree with someone else’s stand in it, and the stand owner showed up, climbed into his stand, and sat there to hunt. Would you be upset??
I’d say I had more right to be there if I showed up first that day over someone who hung a stand months or years ago but I’m sure some won’t agree with that. Just like a fishing spot. If I go set a lawn chair on the bank somewhere before the season opens does that mean nobody should fish within 100’ of it even if I’m not there or if I show up they should leave because I marked my spot with a lawn chair.
And what about the duck blind scenario on public land? Considerable effort and purchased materials can be used by an individual or several individuals over the course time. Does this give any of these individuals the right to 'claim' this blind and expect others not to use it or the general vicinity in which it's located? The general consensus from what I've read and experienced seems to be a duck blind is first come first serve on public land. Why is a tree stand or ground blind any different? I respect the space of others when doing any kind of hunting be it upland, waterfowl, deer or elk and like most prefer to steer clear of other hunters. I certainly wouldn't expect any sense of entitlement to an area or 'spot' if I constructed or placed any kind of blind or stand on public property. :twocents:
Post by: Odell on June 27, 2019, 09:31:28 AM
I dont stand hunt and I dont run trail cams.i was raised to respect others, their property, and respect hard work. I was taught that you dont plop down next to someone and cast a line when fishing and if you encounter another hunter you give them a wide birth.
If I stumble on a cam, I spin on my heels and circle it as to not contaminate the site. If I see a stand I do the same thing. It's not mine, I didnt put in the work to earn the money to purchase the gear, I didnt put in the work to get it there, and I didnt put in the work to maintain it.
This whole "its public land so I have the right" crap is such a lame argument for just being a greedy as*ho**. Put in your own work and put in your own time, dont leech off of others. I demand better from my fellow sportsmen :twocents:
I don't run cameras or stands. I once found a tree stand put up on a wallow I have hunted before. Someone else found a spot I like to hunt and put a stand up. Is it now off limits to me because someone else found it too and put a camera and stand there?
Post by: h20hunter on June 27, 2019, 09:37:29 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 27, 2019, 09:43:53 AM
welcome to combat hunting, where might makes right.
What about 1st come, 1st serve do you have a problem with? Just because someone put a stand there on public land doesn't mean 1. they're going to be using it, and 2. They have a right to lock down that land.
I know many hunters who have multiple tree stands, but of course can only use one at a time. Let's say I have 5 tree stands over 5 wallows. Does that mean I have exclusive rights to all of those locations to the detriment of every other hunter? If you don't like the rules of public land hunting, find some private land where you can be exclusive. The same goes for trailcams. I know hunters who have 10-20 trailcams out. If I pick a hunting spot and find a trail cam there, am I supposed to yield to someone who may never come in? Does setting that cam give them ownership of that spot if they're not there first? It does not.
Post by: SuperX on June 27, 2019, 09:48:59 AM
I have no problem with FCFS, it's those who say 'it's public land, why is the first guy getting all the rights, I'm here now, so I'll hunt wherever I want to' that I see as the problem. When we stop following FCFS we have combat hunting/fishing/camping when the 2nd comers all claim they have equal rights to the first comer's ground they're standing on. They're technically right and we've all had situations where some late arrival sets up right on top of you and ruins your day but there's nothing you can do unless you want to get into a fight.welcome to combat hunting, where might makes right.
What about 1st come, 1st serve do you have a problem with? Just because someone put a stand there on public land doesn't mean 1. they're going to be using it, and 2. They have a right to lock down that land.
I know many hunters who have multiple tree stands, but of course can only use one at a time. Let's say I have 5 tree stands over 5 wallows. Does that mean I have exclusive rights to all of those locations to the detriment of every other hunter? If you don't like the rules of public land hunting, find some private land where you can be exclusive. The same goes for trailcams. I know hunters who have 10-20 trailcams out. If I pick a hunting spot and find a trail cam there, am I supposed to yield to someone who may never come in? Does setting that cam give them ownership of that spot if they're not there first? It does not.
Of course you don't have to leave if there's a cam there - but they don't have to leave if you're there. It sucks that ethics in the woods means nothing to so many. In my experience, the bigger the party the less the individual's claim means. Of course it is the same problem when you're walking an unimproved road and a quad rips by you because they can.
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 27, 2019, 09:52:22 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on June 27, 2019, 09:54:26 AM
Ethically you shouldn't shoot a sow with cubs, legally you can.
I keep coming back to the duck blind rule, if no one is in it is fair game but legality is not what this thread is about.
For the record I wouldn't sit in someone else's duck blind, ground blind or tree stand.
Again this thread is about ethics not legality.
Post by: Odell on June 27, 2019, 09:57:40 AM
I have no problem with FCFS, it's those who say 'it's public land, why is the first guy getting all the rights, I'm here now, so I'll hunt wherever I want to' that I see as the problem. When we stop following FCFS we have combat hunting/fishing/camping when the 2nd comers all claim they have equal rights to the first comer's ground they're standing on. They're technically right and we've all had situations where some late arrival sets up right on top of you and ruins your day but there's nothing you can do unless you want to get into a fight.welcome to combat hunting, where might makes right.
What about 1st come, 1st serve do you have a problem with? Just because someone put a stand there on public land doesn't mean 1. they're going to be using it, and 2. They have a right to lock down that land.
I know many hunters who have multiple tree stands, but of course can only use one at a time. Let's say I have 5 tree stands over 5 wallows. Does that mean I have exclusive rights to all of those locations to the detriment of every other hunter? If you don't like the rules of public land hunting, find some private land where you can be exclusive. The same goes for trailcams. I know hunters who have 10-20 trailcams out. If I pick a hunting spot and find a trail cam there, am I supposed to yield to someone who may never come in? Does setting that cam give them ownership of that spot if they're not there first? It does not.
Of course you don't have to leave if there's a cam there - but they don't have to leave if you're there. It sucks that ethics in the woods means nothing to so many. In my experience, the bigger the party the less the individual's claim means. Of course it is the same problem when you're walking an unimproved road and a quad rips by you because they can.
By 'second-comer' do you guys mean second to the spot, because the stand and camera are there first? Or do you mean if someone is in there hunting? If someone is hunting an area you should give them room, I've been talking about stands and cameras left out
Post by: SuperX on June 27, 2019, 10:01:05 AM
Cams stands don't mean someone is 'there', only that they left their stuff there. 2nd comers can be the ones who left the stuff or just another hunter who decides to hunt right on top of you. If they do it because they don't recognize first come first served, is it ethical? If the stand owner climbs right over you to sit their stand because 'it's my spot, that's my stuff', is that ethical?I have no problem with FCFS, it's those who say 'it's public land, why is the first guy getting all the rights, I'm here now, so I'll hunt wherever I want to' that I see as the problem. When we stop following FCFS we have combat hunting/fishing/camping when the 2nd comers all claim they have equal rights to the first comer's ground they're standing on. They're technically right and we've all had situations where some late arrival sets up right on top of you and ruins your day but there's nothing you can do unless you want to get into a fight.welcome to combat hunting, where might makes right.
What about 1st come, 1st serve do you have a problem with? Just because someone put a stand there on public land doesn't mean 1. they're going to be using it, and 2. They have a right to lock down that land.
I know many hunters who have multiple tree stands, but of course can only use one at a time. Let's say I have 5 tree stands over 5 wallows. Does that mean I have exclusive rights to all of those locations to the detriment of every other hunter? If you don't like the rules of public land hunting, find some private land where you can be exclusive. The same goes for trailcams. I know hunters who have 10-20 trailcams out. If I pick a hunting spot and find a trail cam there, am I supposed to yield to someone who may never come in? Does setting that cam give them ownership of that spot if they're not there first? It does not.
Of course you don't have to leave if there's a cam there - but they don't have to leave if you're there. It sucks that ethics in the woods means nothing to so many. In my experience, the bigger the party the less the individual's claim means. Of course it is the same problem when you're walking an unimproved road and a quad rips by you because they can.
By 'second-comer' do you guys mean second to the spot, because the stand and camera are there first? Or do you mean if someone is in there hunting? If someone is hunting an area you should give them room, I've been talking about stands and cameras left out
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on June 27, 2019, 10:02:27 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 27, 2019, 10:07:43 AM
I have no problem with FCFS, it's those who say 'it's public land, why is the first guy getting all the rights, I'm here now, so I'll hunt wherever I want to' that I see as the problem. When we stop following FCFS we have combat hunting/fishing/camping when the 2nd comers all claim they have equal rights to the first comer's ground they're standing on. They're technically right and we've all had situations where some late arrival sets up right on top of you and ruins your day but there's nothing you can do unless you want to get into a fight.welcome to combat hunting, where might makes right.
What about 1st come, 1st serve do you have a problem with? Just because someone put a stand there on public land doesn't mean 1. they're going to be using it, and 2. They have a right to lock down that land.
I know many hunters who have multiple tree stands, but of course can only use one at a time. Let's say I have 5 tree stands over 5 wallows. Does that mean I have exclusive rights to all of those locations to the detriment of every other hunter? If you don't like the rules of public land hunting, find some private land where you can be exclusive. The same goes for trailcams. I know hunters who have 10-20 trailcams out. If I pick a hunting spot and find a trail cam there, am I supposed to yield to someone who may never come in? Does setting that cam give them ownership of that spot if they're not there first? It does not.
Of course you don't have to leave if there's a cam there - but they don't have to leave if you're there. It sucks that ethics in the woods means nothing to so many. In my experience, the bigger the party the less the individual's claim means. Of course it is the same problem when you're walking an unimproved road and a quad rips by you because they can.
By 'second-comer' do you guys mean second to the spot, because the stand and camera are there first? Or do you mean if someone is in there hunting? If someone is hunting an area you should give them room, I've been talking about stands and cameras left out
2nd guy to the spot, regardless of whether there's a stand or cam.
Post by: smithkl42 on June 27, 2019, 10:10:53 AM
A friend of mine said that he once came across a hunter in one of his ladder stands on state land. The other guy immediately climbed down, but was so friendly (and abashed) that my friend told him to stay there, and moved on to another one of his stands.
Not how it will always go down, of course, but it seems like that's a pretty good outcome.
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 27, 2019, 10:14:05 AM
I'm curious if anybody has ever come across someone sitting in their stand. How did you respond? How did the other hunter?
A friend of mine said that he once came across a hunter in one of his ladder stands on state land. The other guy immediately climbed down, but was so friendly (and abashed) that my friend told him to stay there, and moved on to another one of his stands.
Not how it will always go down, of course, but it seems like that's a pretty good outcome.
This is a sportsman with ethics. :tup:
Post by: SuperX on June 27, 2019, 10:16:27 AM
I'm curious if anybody has ever come across someone sitting in their stand. How did you respond? How did the other hunter?
A friend of mine said that he once came across a hunter in one of his ladder stands on state land. The other guy immediately climbed down, but was so friendly (and abashed) that my friend told him to stay there, and moved on to another one of his stands.
Not how it will always go down, of course, but it seems like that's a pretty good outcome.
This is a sportsman with ethics. :tup:
Yeah, both of them!
Post by: Odell on June 27, 2019, 10:18:01 AM
I'm curious if anybody has ever come across someone sitting in their stand. How did you respond? How did the other hunter?
A friend of mine said that he once came across a hunter in one of his ladder stands on state land. The other guy immediately climbed down, but was so friendly (and abashed) that my friend told him to stay there, and moved on to another one of his stands.
Not how it will always go down, of course, but it seems like that's a pretty good outcome.
Agreed, seems right. But some of the hunt WA guys here have said that’s cause for violence. Scary to think people would respond like that.
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Post by: h20hunter on June 27, 2019, 10:25:27 AM
One, i hiked up, sat, watched the sun peak over the horizon as well as a hunter pop out of the treeline making his way to me. He arrived, apologized for popping out, said he figured he had an early enough start and would move on. I didn't want hom moving around the area so told him to grab a perch and lets try and kill a deer. He takes the right, i take the left. No deer seen, nice hunt and had some good info sharing on the way out.
Two, hunting over the bowl from "the rock".... @D-Rock425 knows the spot....had a guy come in see me, and sit down 25 yards away. I gave him the wth, look, he gave me the finger. I got up, walked out. A silly bear is not worth it, neither was he.
My point is you can only make of a situation what you can.
Post by: MtnMuley on June 27, 2019, 10:31:42 AM
I'm curious if anybody has ever come across someone sitting in their stand. How did you respond? How did the other hunter?
A friend of mine said that he once came across a hunter in one of his ladder stands on state land. The other guy immediately climbed down, but was so friendly (and abashed) that my friend told him to stay there, and moved on to another one of his stands.
Not how it will always go down, of course, but it seems like that's a pretty good outcome.
This is a sportsman with ethics. :tup:
Yeah, both of them!
:tup:
Post by: 2MANY on June 27, 2019, 10:32:39 AM
Aaaaahhhhhh..............................Yeah!!!
Post by: lamrith on June 27, 2019, 11:00:56 AM
Just because something is "legal" doesn't mean it's right.:tup: Same can be said of blacktails, muleys, elk, bears, etc. Bait usually makes it easier but is far from required for a treestand to work. research is what is need most.
Typically the stands require bait to be active, if the stands are 'freshened up' with bait then they're being used and I don't want to hunt there anyways.
If the stands have been sitting dormant and there's no bait then they aren't worth sitting in.
What I wouldn't ever do is freshen up someone else's stand with bait, I'd make my own if I wanted to do that...I don't.
Minor thread jack, but we've killed lots of whitetails back east out of tree stands without any bait whatsoever. Put the work in patterning them and scouting and you can kill whitetails all day long without bait.
Still reading thru the thread but here is my :twocents:
I would not use someone else's treestand I just stumbled upon while hunting. That said there are folks we all know that think putting a stand in a spot marks it as their spot. Just like guys that go into hunt areas 2,3,4 weeks early and throw a disposable tent up in a spot "to reserve it". If I have scouted an area with promise and then come season hunt thru an area and over multiple days see a treestand is completely unused then I would have no issue hunting in that area, be it putting up my own stand or a ground blind, etc. But I would not use their stand, both from personal item issue as well as not knowing if they have it setup properly, etc, just not worth it imho. But I am not going to just give up an area I have scouted and put time into because someone left their treestand in-place for their weekend hunt.
Follow-up / Tangent but related question for everyone.
Many treestand these days have base units that can be mounted on the tree, then you drop your chair/platform into them. I myself have gone in while scouting and prepped a good spot for my treestand and considered leaving the bad mount in place so just have to carry stand up and drop it in. Suppose you had done that, what are folks thoughts on if you came in for your hunt and find someone else has either used your base for their stand, or just put their own stand overtop of your mount in the prepped location..?
Post by: smithkl42 on June 27, 2019, 11:01:41 AM
I'll admit that it's a grey area, which is why I asked the question in the first place.
A couple of thoughts on my side:
(1) Oddly enough, I think my reaction partly depends on what sort of stand it is. I wouldn't ever use some guy's climber - *moving* some other guys' stuff just seems weird, even if it's just up a tree. Climbing up a ladder someone else left on public property feels different. I'm touching some other guy's stuff, but I'm not even going so far as to move anything.
(2) I wouldn't ever make using some other guy's equipment part of my hunting plan. If I know that a tree stand is there, I wouldn't *plan* on hunting it. But if I happen to see that it's empty while I'm still hunting an area, I might (MIGHT) climb it and sit in it a while, just to see.
(3) It doesn't even feel weird to me to hunt in an area where someone else has an empty tree stand. It's not my land, it's not their land - it's public land. But if someone was *in* the tree stand, I'd make sure to stay well away - that just seems polite. And if the guy came along while I was nearby, I'd move. More manners than ethics, but still good manners.
(4) If I happened to be up in the tree stand and the owner came by, I'd immediately climb down, offer whatever apologies were necessary, and if the gentleman was angry, I'd grovel appropriately, and then quickly leave. I can't imagine having the affrontery to tell someone they couldn't use their own stand. (I don't think anybody here was suggesting that.)
(5) It's also a bit touchier doing it while hunting than while scouting. The tree stand that I have in mind is one I noticed a few months ago while scouting some state land. I had found this nice meadow, was hungry, and thought, "I'm going to have some lunch and just watch. I only wish I had a slightly higher vantage point." And literally five seconds later, I noticed a ladder stand about 30 feet away. It felt a *little* weird to climb up it, but given that it was the off season, it seemed unlikely that the owner would be coming along, and hence unlikely that I'd be making anybody angry. I'd be more careful about doing it during the season. Maybe that's just me being scared of getting caught doing something I should know better? Maybe?
FWIW, I'm not saying any of the above is *right*. Just that this is how I (currently) think about it.
Thanks for all the feedback, everyone.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on June 27, 2019, 11:12:28 AM
Is it ethical to sit in/near another’s stand/bait/cam?
Maybe the real question is, Is it sportsman like? (Basically same meaning, but answers may change)
Another Hunter has put in a lot of time, effort, money to his setup. To use his setup is taking advantage of efforts you did not put forth. Unsportsmanlike like IMO.
There are thousands of miles to hunt, usually the best are where there are NO other hunters. If I come across another’s setup I move along.
Who has the “right” to use a particular area?
We all do........ as we see fit, and it’s legal, or considered legal (as in past practices). The use of stands/blinds/cams/bait are all either legal, or considered legal (baring permanent stands in most forests)
This ethics thing related to this is just another “Hunter against Hunter” thing. No wonder we always get screwed. :bash:
If it’s not yours, don’t touch it. Simple
Post by: Pegasus on June 27, 2019, 11:20:34 AM
Post by: SuperX on June 27, 2019, 11:21:26 AM
All your treestands are belong to us.LOL
Post by: Buckhunter24 on June 27, 2019, 11:21:46 AM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on June 27, 2019, 11:24:22 AM
“Maybe that’s just me being scared of getting caught doing something I know I shouldn’t be doing”
Follow your ethics. :hello: :)
Post by: SuperX on June 27, 2019, 11:27:42 AM
Post by: donsk16 on June 27, 2019, 12:10:14 PM
For those selfish individuals who attempt to take away our access, I think we as sportsmen need to let those people know that their behavior isn't okay. Peeing on people because they got to "your" public land before you did isn't okay. You are a bully and a poor sportsmen if that is how you think.
To those who put up tree stands and understand others may hunt the public land that you planned on hunting - good for you and I hope that your extra efforts in preparation works out for you! To those of you who put them up to reserve your spot on public land for weeks or months, you give sportsmen a bad name and you are putting other people in a very unfair situation - they must try to make an ethical decision based on your selfish action.
Think about this:
The government is trying to take away our rights to own firearms - I think everyone here thinks that taking away our rights to firearms is not okay - why is it acceptable for people to take away our equal access to public lands by "reserving" them for weeks or months with dummy camps, tree stands, etc?
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 27, 2019, 12:38:53 PM
Post by: KFhunter on June 27, 2019, 03:37:31 PM
Same with bear hunting an old orchard or apple tree, first come.
But deer hunting where an area has been developed with salt, bait, shooting lanes cleared, stands hung, a very particular deer is probably being hunted, the deer probably has a name.... stay out, move on, find your own spot.
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Post by: KFhunter on June 27, 2019, 03:43:17 PM
Unless you make yourself an ahole first, then I dunno. Ive never met anyone the audacity to take over my setups. So I cant say for sure.
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Post by: smithkl42 on June 27, 2019, 03:47:25 PM
Smithkl42.... One of your sentences says all you need to know
“Maybe that’s just me being scared of getting caught doing something I know I shouldn’t be doing”
Follow your ethics.
To the extent that it *is* a question of ethics, yes, you're quite right. But it may also just be a matter of communal expectations, which is less ethics and more etiquette. (Everyone seems to agree that duck blinds are first-come-first-serve - that's a communal expectation.) And by definition, etiquette is all about how to behave *when other people are around* (or are likely to be affected by your behavior). In reading through the comments, and listening to the arguments raised on both sides, I've concluded that I see anything inherently *unethical* about climbing someone else's stand, anything more than there's something unethical about, I don't know, farting in an elevator. It makes a difference if you're alone. Just as I'd try to hold it in if someone else might smell it, I'd refrain from climbing a stand if I thought there was a reasonable chance of it annoying someone. And clearly, it sounds like it would probably annoy a good percentage of hunters. So I'll try to make sure they never have a chance to get annoyed on my behalf :-).
Post by: 2MANY on June 27, 2019, 03:48:31 PM
In my eyes the solution is simple.
LOG IT ALL!!!!!!!!
Post by: Pegasus on June 27, 2019, 04:13:56 PM
Post by: Odell on June 27, 2019, 04:16:19 PM
Wallows keep getting mentioned, personally I dont use tree stands elk hunting, I move too much, but my take on wallows is that its a natural feature, theres no development of anything, no bait hauled in, so it would be first come first served but stay out of other stands unless its a permanent built one, outta wood, but if its fresh hung stay out of the stand or hang your own. You can tell if its fresh hung by pitch, bark roughed up, moss etc. Most I do on a wallow is a quick brush blind but its one time use.
Same with bear hunting an old orchard or apple tree, first come.
But deer hunting where an area has been developed with salt, bait, shooting lanes cleared, stands hung, a very particular deer is probably being hunted, the deer probably has a name.... stay out, move on, find your own spot.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
There it is again. Here is how you "own" public land...just do a bit of work, "develop an area" and it's YOUR SPOT. Doesn't matter how many others have hunted here, you cleared some lanes, you baited, you named a deer (lol) and NOW IT IS YOURS!!!
This kind of thinking makes me want to petition the banning of bait and cameras on public land.
You named the deer??? Sorry, not sorry... that is nonsense.
Post by: Jonathan_S on June 27, 2019, 04:27:38 PM
Post by: Odell on June 27, 2019, 04:31:35 PM
Smithkl42.... One of your sentences says all you need to know
“Maybe that’s just me being scared of getting caught doing something I know I shouldn’t be doing”
Follow your ethics.
To the extent that it *is* a question of ethics, yes, you're quite right. But it may also just be a matter of communal expectations, which is less ethics and more etiquette. (Everyone seems to agree that duck blinds are first-come-first-serve - that's a communal expectation.) And by definition, etiquette is all about how to behave *when other people are around* (or are likely to be affected by your behavior). In reading through the comments, and listening to the arguments raised on both sides, I've concluded that I see anything inherently *unethical* about climbing someone else's stand, anything more than there's something unethical about, I don't know, farting in an elevator. It makes a difference if you're alone. Just as I'd try to hold it in if someone else might smell it, I'd refrain from climbing a stand if I thought there was a reasonable chance of it annoying someone. And clearly, it sounds like it would probably annoy a good percentage of hunters. So I'll try to make sure they never have a chance to get annoyed on my behalf :-).
Having duck hunted for 27 years I can tell you that its the communal expectation *in theory*
But it is sadly common that you are in a blind and someone shows up, gets pissed you are in "their spot" and then sets up down wind of you and ruins your day.
We have to get better at embracing the truth that public land is for everyone and sometimes that means we are going to be inconvenienced. We feel ownership over "our spots" but they aren't 'ours' we own them collectively.
Post by: buckfvr on June 27, 2019, 04:39:10 PM
I hope we all agree that in regards to public lands, we should have equal access to public lands.
For those selfish individuals who attempt to take away our access, I think we as sportsmen need to let those people know that their behavior isn't okay. Peeing on people because they got to "your" public land before you did isn't okay. You are a bully and a poor sportsmen if that is how you think.
To those who put up tree stands and understand others may hunt the public land that you planned on hunting - good for you and I hope that your extra efforts in preparation works out for you! To those of you who put them up to reserve your spot on public land for weeks or months, you give sportsmen a bad name and you are putting other people in a very unfair situation - they must try to make an ethical decision based on your selfish action.
Think about this:
The government is trying to take away our rights to own firearms - I think everyone here thinks that taking away our rights to firearms is not okay - why is it acceptable for people to take away our equal access to public lands by "reserving" them for weeks or months with dummy camps, tree stands, etc?
To me, not a lot of difference in destroying a guys trap line and messing up another mans tree stand hunt. Both take an incredible amount of effort, mental and physical. Many of us leave stands up year around as we hunt the same spot each year. You're putting too much thought into this by using terms like "reserving". Many of us never even see another hunter in the woods where we hunt. Seldom do we get pictures of hunters on our cams.
A serious stand hunter uses multiple stands anyway, and if thats not an indication of much labor and thought, then you dont know enough about hunting from above.
So whats next for some of you guys, an equal access parade ???
Smart hunters dont want any one else around them any more than they want to be around another mans hunt.
Respect the effort of the next guy, leave his set ups alone and move on, it IS really that simple.
Post by: Odell on June 27, 2019, 04:40:19 PM
Jeez Odell you've really latched onto this one
like a mississippi leg hound. :chuckle:
Public land stuff gets me fired up. I get up way too early in the morning and have too few opportunities to hunt to have someone run me off "their spot" on public land. If someone is there first I am happy to go somewhere else, but don't expect a tent or a tree stand to hold your spot.
Shoot I get salty when people are saving a bunch of seats at a theater or some other event.
The only time it's "your spot" is when you butt is in it.
But I still want to be ethical and yield to other hunters ahead of me. A couple years ago I had a cow tag and ran into a few guys who were set up to cross into the area we were planning on going. They saw our headlamps and came over and asked our plans. Turns out we had the same exact plan but they were on a bull they had been chasing for two days and they beat us to the river crossing by a few minutes. We waited for them to go in first and then we gave them 30 minutes, crossed and went the opposite way. They didn't berate us for being there and we didn't complain about yielding. They were there first and they were on a big bull. I can chase a cow somewhere else. But we talked and it was all good.
Post by: jakeweb on June 27, 2019, 04:46:51 PM
Post by: KFhunter on June 27, 2019, 04:49:53 PM
Are you so entitled that you have to have 100% access to all the public land all the time? .... that you couldn't honor a guys hunt in one little hidey hole?
Or do you suck so bad at hunting you have to find an area where someone has done all the work already so you poach his efforts?
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Post by: Odell on June 27, 2019, 04:54:09 PM
I hope we all agree that in regards to public lands, we should have equal access to public lands.
For those selfish individuals who attempt to take away our access, I think we as sportsmen need to let those people know that their behavior isn't okay. Peeing on people because they got to "your" public land before you did isn't okay. You are a bully and a poor sportsmen if that is how you think.
To those who put up tree stands and understand others may hunt the public land that you planned on hunting - good for you and I hope that your extra efforts in preparation works out for you! To those of you who put them up to reserve your spot on public land for weeks or months, you give sportsmen a bad name and you are putting other people in a very unfair situation - they must try to make an ethical decision based on your selfish action.
Think about this:
The government is trying to take away our rights to own firearms - I think everyone here thinks that taking away our rights to firearms is not okay - why is it acceptable for people to take away our equal access to public lands by "reserving" them for weeks or months with dummy camps, tree stands, etc?
To me, not a lot of difference in destroying a guys trap line and messing up another mans tree stand hunt. Both take an incredible amount of effort, mental and physical. Many of us leave stands up year around as we hunt the same spot each year. You're putting too much thought into this by using terms like "reserving". Many of us never even see another hunter in the woods where we hunt. Seldom do we get pictures of hunters on our cams.
A serious stand hunter uses multiple stands anyway, and if thats not an indication of much labor and thought, then you dont know enough about hunting from above.
So whats next for some of you guys, an equal access parade ???
Smart hunters dont want any one else around them any more than they want to be around another mans hunt.
Respect the effort of the next guy, leave his set ups alone and move on, it IS really that simple.
You say other hunters should "move on" because you have a set up in the woods. It sounds like "equal access parade" is mocking those of us who want to hunt there too. Help me understand how is that not reserving or claiming a spot? It really sounds like you are saying "i did some work here, this spot is now reserved for me." When you are not in there hunting, you have an expectation that people stay out...thats exactly reserving/claiming/owning public land
My high buck partners and I work pretty hard accessing and hunting 'our' area. Other people come in and it forces us to change our plan and "ruins" all our hard work, (just like we probably did to the guys who hunted it before us.) Should we get to put a sign up at the trailhead that says "I've put an incredible amount of effort, mental and physical...with much labor and thought into hunting this drainage, respect our effort and if you're a smart hunter move on to the next trailhead"
Post by: KFhunter on June 27, 2019, 05:01:00 PM
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Post by: Odell on June 27, 2019, 05:01:51 PM
Go to Idaho and sit on someones bear bait see what happens. I from an era where I ran bear bait in WA. Deer is the same thing.
Are you so entitled that you have to have 100% access to all the public land.... that you couldn't honor a guys hunt in one little hidey hole?
Or do you suck so bad at hunting you have to find an area someone has done all the work already so you poach his efforts?
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Threat of violence. Mockery. But yeah, you're a real nice guy and not a bully.
Why can't you honor the hidey hole of all the guys who hunted there before you dropped garbage in the woods and put a stand up? You think you are the first person to find that spot? Are you so entitled that you think dropping bait and hanging a stand means you own the land and the animals?
Again for the record, I've never hunted from a tree stand ever. Not mine and not anyone else's. I've never hunted over bait except once on a feeder on private land in the south. But I won't let those who do, dictate who gets to hunt where on public land.
It's not like anyone is going into the woods trying to find your setup, we are going into the woods to find an animal. You happened to leave some stuff there and thats not my fault.
Post by: KFhunter on June 27, 2019, 05:03:09 PM
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Post by: Odell on June 27, 2019, 05:04:17 PM
And another thing, if im in the theater with empty seats around me its because my girls are peeing, you aint getting those seats.
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Couple seats no big deal. The whole row with one jacket at a general admission concert and we might have words.
Post by: KFhunter on June 27, 2019, 05:09:20 PM
You said hypothetically. I never threaten anyone but I know guys who would. I dont hunt over bait, I use minerals to inventory animals. I rarely hang a stand and if I do its usually a climber. Most of my deer are rattled in and im on the ground in the brush in a small opening, or I spot and stalk. You asked for my ethics, those are them if I were a tree stand hunter...so I honor them how I would expect to be honored, which has been the basis of my debate here.Go to Idaho and sit on someones bear bait see what happens. I from an era where I ran bear bait in WA. Deer is the same thing.
Are you so entitled that you have to have 100% access to all the public land.... that you couldn't honor a guys hunt in one little hidey hole?
Or do you suck so bad at hunting you have to find an area someone has done all the work already so you poach his efforts?
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Threat of violence. Mockery. But yeah, you're a real nice guy and not a bully.
Why can't you honor the hidey hole of all the guys who hunted there before you dropped garbage in the woods and put a stand up? You think you are the first person to find that spot? Are you so entitled that you think dropping bait and hanging a stand means you own the land and the animals?
Again for the record, I've never hunted from a tree stand ever. Not mine and not anyone else's. I've never hunted over bait except once on a feeder on private land in the south. But I won't let those who do, dictate who gets to hunt where on public land.
It's not like anyone is going into the woods trying to find your setup, we are going into the woods to find an animal. You happened to leave some stuff there and thats not my fault.
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Post by: buglebrush on July 18, 2019, 11:28:18 PM
I'm gonna say first come first served ,just like anything else on public land .Firewood,berrys,hunting spots.Its all first come first serve ,by putting a tree stand or game cam there you have made it public property.That's why there is a need to chain it or lock box.Of you don't lock it or secure it in some way I dont see it as personal property any more..
Now with said if you can't afford to lose it don't put it on public property.I do have unsecured game cams , but I use cheap 30 dollar ones on public land .My more expensive ones are in homade lock boxes.
Looking forward to finding your tent, truck, trailer, etc... on public land. You better never beach your boat and walk into the woods to take a dump because at that point, according to you, it's fair game.
Post by: Bango skank on July 19, 2019, 03:07:36 AM
Post by: JakeLand on July 19, 2019, 05:35:32 AM
Post by: hunter399 on July 19, 2019, 06:02:39 AM
Like I said if it's locked up leave it be.I'm gonna say first come first served ,just like anything else on public land .Firewood,berrys,hunting spots.Its all first come first serve ,by putting a tree stand or game cam there you have made it public property.That's why there is a need to chain it or lock box.Of you don't lock it or secure it in some way I dont see it as personal property any more..
Now with said if you can't afford to lose it don't put it on public property.I do have unsecured game cams , but I use cheap 30 dollar ones on public land .My more expensive ones are in homade lock boxes.
Looking forward to finding your tent, truck, trailer, etc... on public land. You better never beach your boat and walk into the woods to take a dump because at that point, according to you, it's fair game.
If I catch u breaking into my locked up truck ,trailer,or anything that's locked up we gonna have major problems.
I'm sorry to tell ya but most of the things u listed you will steal have titles that make them my personal property.
So I guess the way you think you can drop some change out of your pocket while sitting on a stump hunting and nobody should pick it up after you have been gone for a year.
What's next you own all the sheds that are dropped on public land within a few hundred yards of your stand or trail cam.
What a joke.
There are lots of ethics you can debate all day but nothing gonna change.
Motorized vehicles behind closed gates is one that pisses me off the most.
People and there tree stands trail cams that think because they put something there that it reserves the spot for them.
People that park there truck at the beginning of a public road that think they can block off access.
All this boils down to somebody thinking there entitled to a piece of public land that is for EVERYBODY.
With all that said I have never messed with anybody's property on public land and don't ever intend too.And most times I see someone I turn and hunt the other direction.But that type of respect is long gone with most hunters these days.
Post by: hunter399 on July 19, 2019, 06:07:50 AM
Heres a good example of hunter ethics. Date is wrong, actually 6/6/19. These idiots putting a camera up at my mineral site where i already had 2 cameras. They put their cam on a tree 2 feet away from the tree one of my cams was on. I mean come on. Yeah its public land, but still a complete *censored*bag move. If this is you, you suck.I know it sucks but you can't expect much from
People on public land. The since of respect is long gone years ago .This stuff does not surprise me , and should just be expected.
You have to get over it,and deal with it.
Post by: donsk16 on July 19, 2019, 07:57:18 AM
Heres a good example of hunter ethics. Date is wrong, actually 6/6/19. These idiots putting a camera up at my mineral site where i already had 2 cameras. They put their cam on a tree 2 feet away from the tree one of my cams was on. I mean come on. Yeah its public land, but still a complete *censored*bag move. If this is you, you suck.
You run 30 cameras and you think that others shouldn't be able to share those 30 locations on public land?
We complain when others check our cameras (understandably). Then we complain when they actually get their own gear and leave our stuff alone?
I don't get how putting a camera up makes anyone think they own or have exclusive access to 30+ spots year round on public land.
Post by: birddogdad on July 19, 2019, 08:31:26 AM
:yeah:Heres a good example of hunter ethics. Date is wrong, actually 6/6/19. These idiots putting a camera up at my mineral site where i already had 2 cameras. They put their cam on a tree 2 feet away from the tree one of my cams was on. I mean come on. Yeah its public land, but still a complete *censored*bag move. If this is you, you suck.
You run 30 cameras and you think that others shouldn't be able to share those 30 locations on public land?
We complain when others check our cameras (understandably). Then we complain when they actually get their own gear and leave our stuff alone?
I don't get how putting a camera up makes anyone think they own or have exclusive access to 30+ spots year round on public land.
cameras are just that.. if hunter is parked there setup hunting then move on .. if no, then cameral are not stake claims for reserved hunting . this is still public and you don't get "dibs" on areas with a camera.. or 20... reminds me of the campsite with a cheap tent before season thread....
As far as tree stands same principle applies (imo) if i am hunting there first, i wouldn't use someones hung stand but if they show up i don't leave.. public land first come first serve.. again, not a reservation prop to hang a stand...
Post by: Jpmiller on July 19, 2019, 08:34:18 AM
Post by: rainshadow1 on July 19, 2019, 12:11:08 PM
There are laws about bothering somebody's truck. You can't strap a truck on your back and carry it with you. They had to write laws about it. The analogy is worthless.
The tablecloth on the picnic table is far more appropriate.
The legality of leaving a stand (on national forest property for example) is clearly violated if you leave it to go have lunch. The ethic? Personally interpreted. Often a lot less stringent than that, depending on your sportsmanship and character.
Climb the long empty stand and use it as abandoned property? Also personal, imho. Legally, you should be leaving it alone and reporting it. Ethically? Do unto others? Situational. Also personal.
On the flip side is the discussion about "saving the spot." Legally? No ground (or tree) to stand on. FCFS on public land, no matter the time or money invested. No matter the gear you illegally left there. No questions about it.
Ethically? Well, apply "do unto others" to the thought of someone ELSE "claiming" a spot that you still hunted into? You're the stillhunter, and you stalk into a great spot to sit for awhile, and you see someone's "abandoned" equipment... How do you feel? (Remember, you're the guy abandoning equipment, trying to put yourself into the shoes of the guy spending the day sneaking across the mountainside.) He broke the law by abandoning the gear there on public land. Do you feel he's doing right by implying you should leave because he has time and money invested? Weather you choose to avoid the spot or not... is it right?
Seems to me you have to color ethical decisions with the existing laws and rules.
Me personally, I won't climb somebody's equipment, nor will I bother to report it... But I'll sit in a good spot I snuck across, I'll ignore your "unattended investment" and sit. That's the way you play on public land. You show up, we'll have a good conversation, and decide together what to do to give ourselves the best chance to not blow out the area.
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2019, 12:26:53 PM
Quote
The legality of leaving a stand (on national forest property for example) is clearly violated if you leave it to go have lunch.
source?
Post by: rainshadow1 on July 19, 2019, 01:06:43 PM
QuoteThe legality of leaving a stand (on national forest property for example) is clearly violated if you leave it to go have lunch.
source?
Somebody in this thread already linked the consumer version of it on the fs usda website.
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2019, 01:08:11 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on July 19, 2019, 01:32:25 PM
This is exactly why I hunt where very few people are willing to go. If I see any sign that someone has been in an area I move deeper and darker...
Post by: 7mmfan on July 19, 2019, 02:55:07 PM
Oh she looks like a real peach !!!
Well she's wearing a Cowboy's jacket soooooo.... yeah.
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2019, 03:09:03 PM
Was this an old unused spot you started back up? I found a spot that looks like someone had used years and years ago and reclaimed it, hole licked out of the ground.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=240377.0;attach=533130;image)
Post by: Bango skank on July 19, 2019, 03:16:08 PM
And no i dont think i own the area, obviously people can hunt it, but i dont care what these cry babies on here say, intentionally setting a cam on somebody elses mineral site is a dick move, period. Theres millions of acres of public land to hunt there, go put your own mineral site somewhere.
Its also really stupid to set up on somebody elses site, because obviously people wont be happy about it, and i think a lot of guys in my position would have destroyed or stolen their camera. Theyre lucky thats not how i do things. I pulled my cams and left them a little love note.
Post by: hunter399 on July 19, 2019, 04:04:42 PM
It is very near a trail, super easy access. Thats why i chose it, im looking for spots to hang treestands at low elevation easy access just in case we get a bad early winter and im snowed out of my usual areas. Its not an old mineral site, i just started it 10 days before they showed up. Minerals obviously new, anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together could see it was new minerals, not overwintered left overs. He dumped more salt on it, then hung his camera right next to mine, pointed at my minerals.I know the feeling had a few cam-bait spots that got hunted once deer season started.It sucks knowing you put in all the time, money,effort,to have somebody show up at seasons start.But remember that feeling cause public land will do that to ya, a lesson learned at least for me it was.
And no i dont think i own the area, obviously people can hunt it, but i dont care what these cry babies on here say, intentionally setting a cam on somebody elses mineral site is a dick move, period. Theres millions of acres of public land to hunt there, go put your own mineral site somewhere.
Its also really stupid to set up on somebody elses site, because obviously people wont be happy about it, and i think a lot of guys in my position would have destroyed or stolen their camera. Theyre lucky thats not how i do things. I pulled my cams and left them a little love note.
I did the same as you did I pull my cam and abandoned that area.I still hunt there from time to time ,i just don't put no money in it.
Which in the long run just kinda hurts the deer that don't get my salt and food .The Hunter that got greedy is not gonna feed deer april-october.
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2019, 04:36:52 PM
It is very near a trail, super easy access. Thats why i chose it, im looking for spots to hang treestands at low elevation easy access just in case we get a bad early winter and im snowed out of my usual areas. Its not an old mineral site, i just started it 10 days before they showed up. Minerals obviously new, anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together could see it was new minerals, not overwintered left overs. He dumped more salt on it, then hung his camera right next to mine, pointed at my minerals.
And no i dont think i own the area, obviously people can hunt it, but i dont care what these cry babies on here say, intentionally setting a cam on somebody elses mineral site is a dick move, period. Theres millions of acres of public land to hunt there, go put your own mineral site somewhere.
Its also really stupid to set up on somebody elses site, because obviously people wont be happy about it, and i think a lot of guys in my position would have destroyed or stolen their camera. Theyre lucky thats not how i do things. I pulled my cams and left them a little love note.
100%
Post by: NOCK NOCK on July 19, 2019, 05:01:05 PM
Post by: Billy74 on July 19, 2019, 05:57:15 PM
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Post by: Billy74 on July 19, 2019, 06:02:19 PM
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Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2019, 06:20:18 PM
They can hunt where they like, just not in my stand.
Post by: Bango skank on July 19, 2019, 06:22:59 PM
I find someone in a stand I hung, I'm leaving with my stand.
They can hunt where they like, just not in my stand.
If they dont want to get out of the stand, thats okay. Just leave with the ladder.
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2019, 06:30:59 PM
What I been doing is using 2 or 3 sections of climbing sticks, then screw in steps once I get a ways up the tree
Post by: greenhead_killer on July 19, 2019, 06:35:33 PM
Post by: Billy74 on July 19, 2019, 06:51:24 PM
This is like ‘borrowing’ someone’s truck because it’s parked in the woods. Monetary value means nothing whether it’s a car or a stand. Or checking someone’s cams. They’re NOT mine. If you have to pose the question, kinda makes me nervous. What part of the state do you hunt so I can make sure to not have stands there😂 I also won’t hunt a stand without my safety gear, which I’m only packing when I’m stand hunting my own stands. Very easy pass for meMy line of thinking was if you took the tree stand down and moved it to a different spot to suit your needs then that would be like getting and driving a parked truck to a different spot. Using either to suit your need. Sitting in and stand and sitting in a truck but leaving both and not altering how you found it or where they are is a closer analogy. Either way I’m against it and can admit its kind of a mute and nit-picky point.
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Post by: fishnfur on July 19, 2019, 09:05:46 PM
Last time I looked at the regs for public land and tree stands, they state that it is acceptable to put up tree stands if you don't harm the trees. They are very specific on this subject. Also, they state that if you leave them after you are done hunting, then anyone else desiring to do so can use them. I don't understand how you can try to twist the rules based on your "ethics". It is what it is, and you should not attempt to twist the rules to fit your interpretation or personal values. They laws do not state that if you leave your truck at the gate, anyone can drive it, so why does this argument keep coming up? There is no provision in the laws allowing for the use personal items left at public camping areas and parking areas to be use by others once unattended. If the law makers wanted that, they would have written that into the public lands rules. They didn't, but as we know, they did provide specific rules governing tree stands on public land. How can you even argue the point?
RE: Someone hanging cams over your mineral site? Perhaps they are not hunters. Maybe they just like photos of wildlife? Mineral dumps on public lands come at a cost to the soils and the health of the surrounding trees and plants. Supersaturating the soils with mineral salts, well above normal levels is detrimental and ill advised. If you want to do that on your own land, that is your prerogative. On public land, I would recommend caution and consideration for the health of the environment.
Lastly, do we really need to make fun of the woman in the cam picture? Regardless of what they are doing, they look like they are not breaking laws, nor do they appear to be well outside societal norms for a day in the woods. Let's try the high road on this one......
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2019, 09:24:26 PM
others take the position that "hunting" means the duration of the 'hunt', could be a few days/week but if you're camping and hunting returning to the stand daily, its not abandoned
others take the position that the stand is good for a full season of "hunting" and isn't abandoned unless left all winter/spring/summer when theres no seasons.
others say as long as its not a permanently built stand (lumber and nails) meant to be left, its still private property stay off
There's a lot of room to interpret things, thus its an ethics decision.
As for minerals supersaturating the soil and harming wildlife I point you to QDMA and other research, do some reading on how beneficial it can be when done right, how it helps prevent disease and boosts immunity in deer and other wildlife. Its not just about growing big horn, but it help with healthy fawns that can better evade predators. There's a lot to it!
Post by: Eric M on July 19, 2019, 11:45:36 PM
You all seemed to pretty much work out all your feelings on this one.Hope I'm not misunderstanding, but you are arguing what the law is, and most on this thread are arguing this is bad manners. 5 or 6 years ago I found a bear spot that was "cant miss". Im not a stand hunter usually, but day before season I took a stand in to set up on the one tree in bow range. Someone else had a stand on the tree. IMO hunting the ground near it wouldve spread too much scent around. I actually ran into the guy. He ended up killing his first bear. It took me 4 more years. Yes I could've hunted the area. I think i wouldve spoiled the spot for both of us. Yes I was disappointed. A fair amount if work went into finding that spot. But he put in the work also. Seemed like bad manners and if i had hunted that spot, i wouldve ruined both our hunts. To me, there's doing something because I have a right to, and there's being a decent human being.
Last time I looked at the regs for public land and tree stands, they state that it is acceptable to put up tree stands if you don't harm the trees. They are very specific on this subject. Also, they state that if you leave them after you are done hunting, then anyone else desiring to do so can use them. I don't understand how you can try to twist the rules based on your "ethics". It is what it is, and you should not attempt to twist the rules to fit your interpretation or personal values. They laws do not state that if you leave your truck at the gate, anyone can drive it, so why does this argument keep coming up? There is no provision in the laws allowing for the use personal items left at public camping areas and parking areas to be use by others once unattended. If the law makers wanted that, they would have written that into the public lands rules. They didn't, but as we know, they did provide specific rules governing tree stands on public land. How can you even argue the point?
RE: Someone hanging cams over your mineral site? Perhaps they are not hunters. Maybe they just like photos of wildlife? Mineral dumps on public lands come at a cost to the soils and the health of the surrounding trees and plants. Supersaturating the soils with mineral salts, well above normal levels is detrimental and ill advised. If you want to do that on your own land, that is your prerogative. On public land, I would recommend caution and consideration for the health of the environment.
Lastly, do we really need to make fun of the woman in the cam picture? Regardless of what they are doing, they look like they are not breaking laws, nor do they appear to be well outside societal norms for a day in the woods. Let's try the high road on this one......