Post by: Chase2008 on July 22, 2019, 05:11:52 PM
2007 navigator with a 5.4l recently and just got a quote to replace cam phasers, timing etc for $3000
Does that sound right?
Post by: Fl0und3rz on July 22, 2019, 05:16:28 PM
@coachcw
Post by: Chase2008 on July 22, 2019, 05:50:04 PM
Post by: Chase2008 on July 22, 2019, 06:43:18 PM
@jackelope
@buckmark
Thanks for any insight you can add
Post by: deerlick on July 22, 2019, 07:56:24 PM
Post by: 3Under on July 22, 2019, 08:06:55 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 22, 2019, 08:07:00 PM
How many miles on the engine?
Post by: jackelope on July 22, 2019, 08:07:57 PM
Post by: Chase2008 on July 22, 2019, 08:17:12 PM
Attached is the quote.
Post by: Chase2008 on July 22, 2019, 08:19:29 PM
Post by: Chase2008 on July 22, 2019, 08:24:21 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on July 22, 2019, 08:35:32 PM
Post by: Chase2008 on July 23, 2019, 09:13:25 AM
Phasers
Post by: Woodchuck on July 23, 2019, 09:21:05 AM
I will add that any shop offering to only do one side has some learning to do. That’s lame. Do everything while it’s apart. Why that was even an option is beyond me.:yeah:
I would also say that if you are at difficult decision time on the rig that you are coming up on due for a fairly expensive spark plug replacement. (in the grand scheme of replacing spark plugs). Also some 100k fluid services if they have not been done. :twocents:
Post by: jackelope on July 23, 2019, 10:45:12 AM
Why do they think it was cam phasers? I thought those were a bit difficult to diagnose?
It's not difficult to diagnose if you've got experience with the 5.4's I guess. We've been doing some cam phasers on some of the ecoboost engines now too.
P0022 is "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 2)" it's pretty much "the code" when they have bad cam phasers. They won't build oil pressure because they get stuck open I believe is what happens.
Post by: Gobble on July 23, 2019, 11:59:10 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 23, 2019, 12:07:43 PM
Mines been ticking for 50,000 miles, other than the annoyance of the sound, it really isn't a big deal, now it sounds like a modern day diesel. My sons 2015 Chevy made a ticking sound as well, but I believe his was injectors. If you can deal with the sound there is really no reason to worry about it.
If your engine is still running 50k miles later, It's more than likely not the cam phasers that's your problem. They get stuck open, don't make oil pressure which causes the timing to not adjust correctly(variable valve timing) then it will either run like crap, make lots of noise and/or eventually not run.
Are you sure you just don't have really bad exhaust leaks from the exhaust manifold studs breaking and the manifolds warping?
Post by: Chase2008 on July 23, 2019, 12:15:04 PM
Post by: Gobble on July 23, 2019, 12:35:35 PM
Mines been ticking for 50,000 miles, other than the annoyance of the sound, it really isn't a big deal, now it sounds like a modern day diesel. My sons 2015 Chevy made a ticking sound as well, but I believe his was injectors. If you can deal with the sound there is really no reason to worry about it.
If your engine is still running 50k miles later, It's more than likely not the cam phasers that's your problem. They get stuck open, don't make oil pressure which causes the timing to not adjust correctly(variable valve timing) then it will either run like crap, make lots of noise and/or eventually not run.
Are you sure you just don't have really bad exhaust leaks from the exhaust manifold studs breaking and the manifolds warping?
[/qu
Its the cam phasers, very common 5.4 problem, you can google to your hearts content and find tons of info. For sure not an exhaust leak. I am a very accomplished Mechanic
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on July 23, 2019, 12:45:06 PM
Mines been ticking for 50,000 miles, other than the annoyance of the sound, it really isn't a big deal, now it sounds like a modern day diesel. My sons 2015 Chevy made a ticking sound as well, but I believe his was injectors. If you can deal with the sound there is really no reason to worry about it.
If your engine is still running 50k miles later, It's more than likely not the cam phasers that's your problem. They get stuck open, don't make oil pressure which causes the timing to not adjust correctly(variable valve timing) then it will either run like crap, make lots of noise and/or eventually not run.
Are you sure you just don't have really bad exhaust leaks from the exhaust manifold studs breaking and the manifolds warping?
[/qu
Its the cam phasers, very common 5.4 problem, you can google to your hearts content and find tons of info. For sure not an exhaust leak. I am a very accomplished Mechanic
I'm a team service manager at a Ford dealer.
Post by: Buckmark on July 23, 2019, 12:49:04 PM
They used to be easy to replace, fit through the hole in the VC but some engineer thought it would be fun to make the hole to small after like 2006 :bash:
And :yeah: to what woodchuck said, do your 100k now also
*
Ah broken exhaust bolts and again some engineer thought putting the upper shock tower in the way was a good thing, nothing like an engine pull for an exhaust leak repair.. :tup:
*
But im going to let all the youtube techs here battle it out (Not Jack, wood, Coach etc)
Post by: Gobble on July 23, 2019, 01:05:56 PM
Post by: Chase2008 on July 23, 2019, 01:07:59 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on July 23, 2019, 01:10:15 PM
I replaced my VCT solenoids hoping that would quiet mine down as it does in some cases but no luck. Seriously though, if you want to spend a few grand to quiet your motor down, go ahead. If you are a do it yourselfer like me the parts to replace the cam phasers are about $300 bucks, you will need to buy a wedge tool, its got a little pucker factor if you don't do it right but if you are decent do it yourself mechanic you should be able to do it, it just depends on whether you are comfortable pulling the front of the engine apartNoise is not his issue.
A little sound wouldn’t bother me. Multiple misfires and no power is a problemThis is his issue.
Post by: jackelope on July 23, 2019, 01:19:13 PM
84k on this engine and if maintained reasonably well i would be more inclined to be thinking VCT solenoid issue (they would be checked in the P0022 diag ladder) and are a common issue that can cause the OP's problem, but im going with not being the diag tech soooo??'
They used to be easy to replace, fit through the hole in the VC but some engineer thought it would be fun to make the hole to small after like 2006 :bash:
If it only runs rough at one specific point I might think just the solenoid. If the solenoid didn't work it would lock the cam down and it wouldn't be able to adjust until the phaser got oil pressure. With a bad solenoid it'll still run fine a lot of the time. Out of commonality, the most likely problem is the phaser...but I'm not the tech looking at it either.
Post by: Gobble on July 23, 2019, 01:19:28 PM
I replaced my VCT solenoids hoping that would quiet mine down as it does in some cases but no luck. Seriously though, if you want to spend a few grand to quiet your motor down, go ahead. If you are a do it yourselfer like me the parts to replace the cam phasers are about $300 bucks, you will need to buy a wedge tool, its got a little pucker factor if you don't do it right but if you are decent do it yourself mechanic you should be able to do it, it just depends on whether you are comfortable pulling the front of the engine apartNoise is not his issue.A little sound wouldn’t bother me. Multiple misfires and no power is a problemThis is his issue.
Ahh, missed that part LOL! yeah, that could be a much bigger issue LOL
BTW, wasn't trying to sound like a dick, I'm multi tasking at work and tried to keep it short. LOL I just re read what I typed and I sounded like a dick
Post by: jackelope on July 23, 2019, 01:20:24 PM
I replaced my VCT solenoids hoping that would quiet mine down as it does in some cases but no luck. Seriously though, if you want to spend a few grand to quiet your motor down, go ahead. If you are a do it yourselfer like me the parts to replace the cam phasers are about $300 bucks, you will need to buy a wedge tool, its got a little pucker factor if you don't do it right but if you are decent do it yourself mechanic you should be able to do it, it just depends on whether you are comfortable pulling the front of the engine apart
Your noise is probably your stretched timing chain slapping against the timing cover.
:dunno:
Post by: Chase2008 on July 23, 2019, 01:26:08 PM
84k on this engine and if maintained reasonably well i would be more inclined to be thinking VCT solenoid issue (they would be checked in the P0022 diag ladder) and are a common issue that can cause the OP's problem, but im going with not being the diag tech soooo??'
They used to be easy to replace, fit through the hole in the VC but some engineer thought it would be fun to make the hole to small after like 2006 :bash:
If it only runs rough at one specific point I might think just the solenoid. If the solenoid didn't work it would lock the cam down and it wouldn't be able to adjust until the phaser got oil pressure. With a bad solenoid it'll still run fine a lot of the time. Out of commonality, the most likely problem is the phaser...but I'm not the tech looking at it either.
Wife drove it the first time. Started up and was fine at idle. Started down the road and said it tarted to shudder and she brought it back.
I tried after a bit and same thing. Fine at first and then at about 30 mph same thing. Had it towed after that
Post by: Gobble on July 23, 2019, 01:30:23 PM
I replaced my VCT solenoids hoping that would quiet mine down as it does in some cases but no luck. Seriously though, if you want to spend a few grand to quiet your motor down, go ahead. If you are a do it yourselfer like me the parts to replace the cam phasers are about $300 bucks, you will need to buy a wedge tool, its got a little pucker factor if you don't do it right but if you are decent do it yourself mechanic you should be able to do it, it just depends on whether you are comfortable pulling the front of the engine apart
Your noise is probably your stretched timing chain slapping against the timing cover.
:dunno:
Yeah it could be, If I'm tearing it down that far I'm replacing all of it
Post by: Buckmark on July 23, 2019, 01:43:17 PM
The diag ladder leads you thru steps covering the Solenoids and the Phazers, if i remember right you can activate the phazer per the scanner and sometimes get it to work for a little while (like during testing, not months), you go thru the solenoids first checking pids etc, there are 2 TSB's that might relate, but again not having the vehicle its a crap shoot.
I personally would get another diagnose from another shop, :twocents:
We have done both items mentioned on trucks, but after the diag leads to the failure, also i would have the diag ladder for the customer to see with all the testing notes written on it for the customer to see or even take with them to another shop.
If you replace both you will covered (which i wonder if they are both on your estimate?
Did they try and sell you a power steering flush also :chuckle:
Post by: Chase2008 on July 23, 2019, 01:46:47 PM
Post by: Gobble on July 23, 2019, 01:54:08 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on July 23, 2019, 01:56:41 PM
Said the estimate was for one side. Was told both would be 5400. Thought it was too high so hence why I am here looking for feedback.Um yeah, I would suggest shopping. Ask for estimates on phasers and chains and tensioners and guides. :twocents:
Post by: Buckmark on July 23, 2019, 02:07:23 PM
Post by: pup0025 on July 23, 2019, 04:13:16 PM
Post by: b23 on July 23, 2019, 06:42:05 PM
From what they say, even installing new cam phasers is only a temporary fix. One of my dad's pickups is a high mileage 2008 with a 5.4 that he's had the cam phasers replaced twice now. It could be worth giving this place a call and talking to them.
Post by: Buckmark on July 24, 2019, 10:09:55 AM
Anyone know anything about this cam phaser noise repair kit? https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP823113Interesting, someone do this and let us know how it works ok.
From what they say, even installing new cam phasers is only a temporary fix. One of my dad's pickups is a high mileage 2008 with a 5.4 that he's had the cam phasers replaced twice now. It could be worth giving this place a call and talking to them.
Hey it only took the youtube guy 9 minutes to do the job :chuckle:
Post by: Mossy on August 18, 2019, 07:41:44 AM