Post by: pianoman9701 on July 23, 2019, 12:35:29 PM
Pman
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on July 23, 2019, 12:54:06 PM
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,237377.0.html
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 23, 2019, 01:36:21 PM
Post by: Bango skank on July 23, 2019, 03:35:19 PM
Post by: Bango skank on July 23, 2019, 03:41:29 PM
Post by: HillHound on July 23, 2019, 03:52:36 PM
Post by: Bango skank on July 23, 2019, 03:54:44 PM
First one I see that’s big enough to not be with his mom is hitting the dirt. I might be more selective with my second tag,
We are on the same page
Post by: Bango skank on July 23, 2019, 03:58:13 PM
That study shows bears killing more calves than lions. This is why ne elk numbers suck so bad. This is why we needed our new fall bear regs, and why we need more liberal spring hunting especially. If you care about deer, elk, moose numbers, go out and kill 2 bears this fall.
The study goes on to address compensatory vs addative mortality. In short, it says in areas where elk are near the carrying capacity of the habitat, predation mortality is pretty much compensatory. But in areas where the elk population is well below carrying capacity (like ne wa) the predation caused mortality is additive, and increasing predator harvest coincided with increased calf survival, while decreasing predator harvest coincided with decreasing calf survival.
Gee, whoda thunk it? :rolleyes:
Post by: Stein on July 23, 2019, 04:01:47 PM
Bears killed 19
Wolves 5
Coyote 3
Lion 1
Wolverine 1
Undetermined 2
No reason to believe it isn't the same for deer and moose.
Post by: ThurstonCokid on July 23, 2019, 04:04:17 PM
Same same!First one I see that’s big enough to not be with his mom is hitting the dirt. I might be more selective with my second tag,
We are on the same page
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Post by: Bango skank on July 23, 2019, 04:04:20 PM
Several studies have shown that bears kill about four times the amount of elk that wolves do in Yellowstone and you can't get a more established wolf population in the west than there. The one report I saw tracked 50 elk calves and:
Bears killed 19
Wolves 5
Coyote 3
Lion 1
Wolverine 1
Undetermined 2
No reason to believe it isn't the same for deer and moose.
The beauty of the idaho study i linked is that it is specifically black bear, where yellowstone certainly includes grizz, and idiots will use that as an argument, claiming that maybe grizz are predatory, but black bears arent, so no need to increase black bear harvest. People actually believe black bears just eat grass and berries.
Post by: Stein on July 23, 2019, 04:08:57 PM
The morale of the story is that black bears are a bigger problem for calf and fawn mortality than any other predator (except possibly grizz if they are thick). We know we don't have thick grizz here, so black bears kill more calves and fawns in WA than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if state wide they killed more than all other predators combined.
Post by: Bango skank on July 23, 2019, 05:12:33 PM
True. In the Yellowstone study, grizz killed 10, blacks 5 and 4 were unidentified bears. Assuming at least one of the unidentified were black that is still more than wolves and there are a ton of wolves in Yellowstone.
The morale of the story is that black bears are a bigger problem for calf and fawn mortality than any other predator (except possibly grizz if they are thick). We know we don't have thick grizz here, so black bears kill more calves and fawns in WA than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if state wide they killed more than all other predators combined.
Purely speculation on my part, but i cant help but think if the grizz werent there, black bear predation would have been higher, and compensated for what the grizz took. After all, if i was a black bear, i wouldnt be creeping around calving grounds that were being patrolled by grizz. Im sure grizz kill a decent number of blackies too.
Post by: KFhunter on July 23, 2019, 05:58:51 PM
wolves kill more adults
Bears kill more calves
Each has their niche
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Post by: Bango skank on July 23, 2019, 06:24:37 PM
Lions kill more yearlings and subadult elk
wolves kill more adults
Bears kill more calves
Each has their niche
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Yup, but our bear population is way higher than lions and wolves combined
Post by: tgomez on July 24, 2019, 09:36:52 PM
That study shows bears killing more calves than lions. This is why ne elk numbers suck so bad. This is why we needed our new fall bear regs, and why we need more liberal spring hunting especially. If you care about deer, elk, moose numbers, go out and kill 2 bears this fall.
Yep, whack em and stack em. I'll be trying my best to harvest two bears for my first vacation of the year, looking forward to it.
Post by: Bango skank on July 31, 2019, 07:46:27 AM
Post by: HillHound on July 31, 2019, 07:49:26 AM
Post by: Bango skank on July 31, 2019, 07:50:26 AM
7 minutes behind, definitely not a coincidence. One more day and the tables will turn on him
Looks like the cow and calf were kind of hustlin too, like they knew it was coming.