Post by: Whitenuckles on July 29, 2019, 01:08:01 PM
Someone please tell me the Snohomish will be open for at least a 1 fish retention.
Post by: 7mmfan on July 29, 2019, 02:07:28 PM
Post by: h20hunter on July 29, 2019, 02:32:48 PM
Post by: Stein on July 29, 2019, 02:49:37 PM
Post by: Bullkllr on July 29, 2019, 02:53:25 PM
Am I reading this right? Salt water get 2, Puyallup river gets 6, but Snohomish gets none....? I sure hope I'm reading this wrong. My daughter is going to be livid! Shes been looking forward to the run since Christmas. Not cool.Puyallup is only 2 as all pinks count against the 2 adult daily limit
Someone please tell me the Snohomish will be open for at least a 1 fish retention.
Post by: Whitenuckles on July 29, 2019, 03:11:18 PM
Copy that. My mistakeAm I reading this right? Salt water get 2, Puyallup river gets 6, but Snohomish gets none....? I sure hope I'm reading this wrong. My daughter is going to be livid! Shes been looking forward to the run since Christmas. Not cool.Puyallup is only 2 as all pinks count against the 2 adult daily limit
Someone please tell me the Snohomish will be open for at least a 1 fish retention.
Post by: Whitenuckles on July 29, 2019, 03:14:13 PM
Post by: WSU on July 29, 2019, 03:15:47 PM
So not only did they take pinks away from us this year, they dropped the coho limit to 1. Just a couple years ago it was 3 a day. I just read an article that says our coho run is up 15% this year from the 10 year average. What the hell is going on? :bash:
Coho forecast is down this year from last year and well down of long term average.
Post by: Whitenuckles on July 29, 2019, 03:19:02 PM
So not only did they take pinks away from us this year, they dropped the coho limit to 1. Just a couple years ago it was 3 a day. I just read an article that says our coho run is up 15% this year from the 10 year average. What the hell is going on? :bash:
Coho forecast is down this year from last year and well down of long term average.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.heraldnet.com/sports/dismal-local-outlook-for-upcoming-salmon-season/&ved=2ahUKEwiuy6r5k9vjAhVOnp4KHSbMDZcQFjAQegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1f4Cfykdm1pasfQHCRwOh4
Last 5 articles I've read say it up.
Post by: Buckmark on July 29, 2019, 04:09:25 PM
If thats true they may close all of it like they did last timeSo not only did they take pinks away from us this year, they dropped the coho limit to 1. Just a couple years ago it was 3 a day. I just read an article that says our coho run is up 15% this year from the 10 year average. What the hell is going on? :bash:
Coho forecast is down this year from last year and well down of long term average.
Post by: WSU on July 29, 2019, 04:12:09 PM
Post by: WSU on July 29, 2019, 04:35:17 PM
Post by: smdave on July 30, 2019, 08:51:20 PM
Am I reading this right? Salt water get 2, Puyallup river gets 6, but Snohomish gets none....? I sure hope I'm reading this wrong. My daughter is going to be livid! Shes been looking forward to the run since Christmas. Not cool.
Someone please tell me the Snohomish will be open for at least a 1 fish retention.
Is there a link to the WDFW Website with this information?
Post by: 7mmfan on July 30, 2019, 08:54:03 PM
Post by: smdave on July 30, 2019, 09:42:16 PM
Post by: Gobble Doc on July 30, 2019, 10:26:49 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: 7mmfan on July 31, 2019, 08:45:47 AM
The writing was on the wall though when Chums suffered the same fate a decade or so ago. I can remember fishing from Ben Howard to Lewis Street and catching 50 chums a day no problem. Hardly see one roll in there in November anymore. The Skagit was even better, and you got the bonus Dolly and Rainbow fishing behind spawning chums up there. Easy to catch 100 trout a day fishing beads below chum redds. The Chums are gone now and with them went the trout and Dollies. When the Indians are struggling to catch enough Chums for their CHUM HATCHERY (something that should never have to exist), there's a problem. Hell last year they were catching more Atlantics in their nets in the lower Skagit than Chums! Makes me want to slam my head through a plate glass window.
Chums and Pinks are two of the most prolific spawners in the salmon world. Literally just let a few make it to gravel and you'll have all you ever need. But letting anything spawn and decompose in the river is an enormous waste I guess.
Rant over, carry on.
Post by: Stein on July 31, 2019, 08:52:56 AM
Post by: 7mmfan on July 31, 2019, 09:01:16 AM
Post by: Stein on July 31, 2019, 09:41:45 AM
The Columbia was once the most prolific salmon river in the world and now we argue if we need barbless hooks and a 1 fish limit.
WDFW/ODFW play a huge part as do the groups suing to keep hatcheries shut.
Post by: WSU on July 31, 2019, 10:19:45 AM
They could just look at AK, sure they have some issues like anywhere else but they only let fish into boats after the run materializes and have absolutely no qualms about shutting recs or commercials down in a heartbeat.
The Columbia was once the most prolific salmon river in the world and now we argue if we need barbless hooks and a 1 fish limit.
WDFW/ODFW play a huge part as do the groups suing to keep hatcheries shut.
AK is has a ton of problems of its own. I don't think it's some shining example of how things ought to be done.
Post by: knighttime25 on July 31, 2019, 10:29:46 AM
It really is a sad day when there aren't enough pinks to have a sport fishery. It has nothing to do with habitat or ocean conditions either, it's pure greed and over harvest. Not enough fish for a sport fishery, but there will be 15 seine boats in front of Mukilteo and Skagit Bay working them over I guarantee it. Let the damn things hit the gravel, why is that such a hard concept to handle?
Nothing to do with habitat or ocean conditions??? The cormorants and pinniped populations have gone un-controlled for years and warmer water temps and lack of ideal spawning conditions have had a significant impact. Pure greed and over harvest is also a factor but not the entire problem :twocents:
Post by: 7mmfan on July 31, 2019, 11:08:36 AM
I suppose you can include predators like cormorants and pinnipeds into the habitat sector, but I view them purely as predators. You are right, they do need to be controlled and they are a contributing factor. However, once again, these two species of salmon had no issues until a few years ago, while these predators have been a problem for a long long time.
Post by: WAcoueshunter on July 31, 2019, 11:52:33 AM
The shear numbers of these fish that we had while other salmon runs declined and struggled is a key indicator that the primary reason for their success was lack of commercial interest. As soon as chum and pink roe became a commodity, their numbers were crushed in less than a decade. Coincidence? No.
I personally don't buy that, at least for pinks. There were tons of pinks as recently as 2015 (and 2013 and 2011 were strong too), and then they crashed in 2017. I don't buy that the commercial interest suddenly took almost ALL of the fish that would otherwise have spawned in 2015 such that none came back in 2017. Had to be other factors in play.
Post by: Whitenuckles on July 31, 2019, 01:28:58 PM
There really does need to be a huge management shift in Olympia. Get away from this ridiculous and scientifically defunct practice of maximum sustained yield, and start monitoring our fisheries and only let commercials hit them once enough fish have past. A few seasons of putting the fish first and my guess is they come back with gusto.:yeah:
Post by: Stein on July 31, 2019, 03:49:04 PM
They could just look at AK, sure they have some issues like anywhere else but they only let fish into boats after the run materializes and have absolutely no qualms about shutting recs or commercials down in a heartbeat.
The Columbia was once the most prolific salmon river in the world and now we argue if we need barbless hooks and a 1 fish limit.
WDFW/ODFW play a huge part as do the groups suing to keep hatcheries shut.
AK is has a ton of problems of its own. I don't think it's some shining example of how things ought to be done.
They aren't perfect, but they are better. Lake WA just had 16k sockeye return with 350k needed to open a season. It just gets worse every year and we don't have a plan to fix it.
Ocean conditions play a role and pinks are some of the first to recover. We had a great run four years ago but like other things we just cross our fingers and make sure we pinch our barbs.
Just like hunting, WDFW is not a strong advocate, they jump around and do the bidding of the politicians and cower every time an environmental group sues. Where is the strong voice for what we need to do to recover salmon, elk, mulies and whatever else? What is the plan?
The latest hunting regs letter from the chief doesn't even mention why the elk tags are vanished or what we are doing, but does talk about some good recipes. Blows my mind sometimes that there aren't pitchforks haven't came out yet.
Post by: Bullkllr on July 31, 2019, 06:07:31 PM
Yes, they can spawn almost anywhere, and they don't need a ton of freshwater rearing habitat, but if high water scours the gravel before spring, there goes your next crop of pinks.
Post by: Gobble Doc on July 31, 2019, 08:51:10 PM
It really is a sad day when there aren't enough pinks to have a sport fishery. It has nothing to do with habitat or ocean conditions either, it's pure greed and over harvest. Not enough fish for a sport fishery, but there will be 15 seine boats in front of Mukilteo and Skagit Bay working them over I guarantee it. Let the damn things hit the gravel, why is that such a hard concept to handle?Completely agree. Chum in the Skagit used to be stacked in a decade ago. The pinks were thick. November chum fishing was so much fun. The skagit is dam controlled so I just don’t believe that this is a function of water temp or levels. Hard for fish to make it through the nets.
The writing was on the wall though when Chums suffered the same fate a decade or so ago. I can remember fishing from Ben Howard to Lewis Street and catching 50 chums a day no problem. Hardly see one roll in there in November anymore. The Skagit was even better, and you got the bonus Dolly and Rainbow fishing behind spawning chums up there. Easy to catch 100 trout a day fishing beads below chum redds. The Chums are gone now and with them went the trout and Dollies. When the Indians are struggling to catch enough Chums for their CHUM HATCHERY (something that should never have to exist), there's a problem. Hell last year they were catching more Atlantics in their nets in the lower Skagit than Chums! Makes me want to slam my head through a plate glass window.
Chums and Pinks are two of the most prolific spawners in the salmon world. Literally just let a few make it to gravel and you'll have all you ever need. But letting anything spawn and decompose in the river is an enormous waste I guess.
Rant over, carry on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Bullkllr on July 31, 2019, 09:13:19 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2017/mar/02/pink-salmon-returns-puget-sound-not-so-hot-year/ (http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2017/mar/02/pink-salmon-returns-puget-sound-not-so-hot-year/)
It was river and ocean conditions in 2015 that are resulting in the low forecast for this year, said Aaron Dufault, a pink, chum and sockeye specialist with the state Department of Fish and Wildlife.
“They returned in 2015 when we were in the middle of a drought. That summer, we had river closures because of conditions,” Dufault said. “Water levels were really low, and the water was very warm.”
Because the fish returning in 2015 were smaller than normal, Dufault said, the agency expects fewer eggs were laid during spawning that fall.
The eggs that were laid and fertilized were then impacted by three or four floods during heavy rains in the fall.
“So, we had low numbers (of smolts) going out,” Dufault said. “When they got into the ocean, conditions weren’t great either.”
Post by: WAcoueshunter on July 31, 2019, 09:14:03 PM
Post by: WSU on July 31, 2019, 09:22:15 PM
Post by: 7mmfan on July 31, 2019, 09:27:30 PM
Post by: Bullkllr on July 31, 2019, 09:35:11 PM
:yeah: the skagit has huge spikes in cfs.
And between Oct 2015 and Feb 2016 there were 6/7 different huge spikes. Don't know how to post the pic, but here is a link to the graph during that time period at Marblemount.
https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/wa/nwis/uv?cb_00060=on&cb_00065=on&format=gif_default&site_no=12181000&period=&begin_date=2015-10-01&end_date=2016-02-28 (https://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/wa/nwis/uv?cb_00060=on&cb_00065=on&format=gif_default&site_no=12181000&period=&begin_date=2015-10-01&end_date=2016-02-28)
High water periods (that have been exacerbated by development and other human land uses) are pretty well known to be very detrimental to successful salmon spawning production.
Post by: jmscon on July 31, 2019, 09:40:07 PM
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14984-8
Quote
The percentage of the total coastwide smolt production consumed by harbor seals increased from 1.5% (3.5 million consumed out of 236.8 million estimated total production) in 1975 to 6.5% (27.4 million consumed out of 423.4 million estimated total production) in 2015. Harbor seals in the Salish Sea (i.e. Puget Sound, Strait of Georgia, and Strait of San Juan de Fuca) accounted for 86.4% of the total coast wide smolt consumption in 2015, due to large increases in the harbor seal abundance in this region between 1975 and 2015 (8,600 to 77,800), as well as a large diet fraction of Chinook salmon smolts relative to other regions (see supplemental material).
Figure four in results shows the amount caught by fisheries in the Salish sea has dropped to almost nothing while pinniped consumption has skyrocketed.
Post by: Gobble Doc on July 31, 2019, 09:52:22 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: jmscon on July 31, 2019, 10:06:44 PM