Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 10:09:18 AM
During this time, we were trying to get in contact with the packer to see what our options were. We were told that he was busy and wouldn't be able to come get us or do anything until our original pack out date which was a week later. I knew there was no way we could sit at camp for a week and hiking within 6-8 miles of camp was a waste of time and energy. We made the tough call to hike ourselves out of camp and back to the trailhead. We left camp yesterday morning at 4:15 am and made it to the trailhead at 1:45 pm. All said and done, we showed a little over 19 miles hiked and 7k feet in elevation change. That was followed up by a 5+ hour drive home and here I sit, back at work a week early, still in shock of what all went down. On top of this, I get to drive back down there next week when he gets our gear back off the mountain so we can get it home. Pretty weird knowing how much expensive stuff I have sitting up in a tent at 7500 feet. :yike:
Post by: Timberstalker on September 03, 2019, 10:13:37 AM
I may have waited it out. Surely sitting in the Eagle Caps is better than sitting at Work?
Sorry it didn’t turn out though.
Post by: Buckhunter24 on September 03, 2019, 10:15:45 AM
Post by: buckfvr on September 03, 2019, 10:17:38 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 10:17:46 AM
Tough decision.
I may have waited it out. Surely sitting in the Eagle Caps is better than sitting at Work?
Sorry it didn’t turn out though.
It was a brutal decision, trust me. I just know I would have went bat .... crazy sitting in camp for a week with nothing to do. I can honestly say, the area that was within a day's hike, which was miserable getting back to camp, wouldn't even be like a "plan J" if I was scouting a new area.
Post by: trophyhunt on September 03, 2019, 10:19:02 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 10:20:34 AM
Did he tell you previously that it was good elk hunting up there? I wonder if he would be willing to take you in a different spot this or next year?
This was the first time he had ever set a camp in this area. He said he had seen sign in there riding through before and it looked good from google earth. I actually talked to him this morning and he mentioned something about next year working out a deal but I don't know. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice....
Post by: bobcat on September 03, 2019, 10:22:30 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 10:27:59 AM
Post by: bobcat on September 03, 2019, 10:30:55 AM
That's a bummer. Really sorry to hear that happened to you. I probably would've hiked out early too. At least you didn't also waste a week of vacation.
Post by: Henrydog on September 03, 2019, 10:36:47 AM
I have a feeling this is the outfit that was on Northwest Outdoors man radio this spring talking about the Eagle Caps saying he was not a guide but had very high success rates. I think he was at the Bighorn show in Spokane, is this the right outfit without naming names?
Post by: jstone on September 03, 2019, 10:39:12 AM
That is why I am nervous about paying that much money and getting hosed.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 10:43:02 AM
Man that sucks...
I have a feeling this is the outfit that was on Northwest Outdoors man radio this spring talking about the Eagle Caps saying he was not a guide but had very high success rates. I think he was at the Bighorn show in Spokane, is this the right outfit without naming names?
I am not sure. You can pm the name if you want and I can confirm or deny
Post by: h20hunter on September 03, 2019, 10:45:23 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on September 03, 2019, 10:46:41 AM
Post by: theleo on September 03, 2019, 10:52:02 AM
Did he tell you previously that it was good elk hunting up there?
Id say you got gooned......It's a risk you take hunting the Eagle Caps with a fixed camping spot. Most of it is either a home run or a strike out and the areas change each year. He was in a historically decent area, the elk just weren't there.
Sorry that's how things turned out, that's a tuff break. If you're serious about hunting that country we need to have a more in depth conversation sometime and I can give you some areas with more options. That upper country like where you were is very unforgiving if you can't move your camp.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on September 03, 2019, 10:58:42 AM
Post by: kselkhunter on September 03, 2019, 11:00:44 AM
Your tag is good til the 22nd. Hate to see you spend the nonresident money on that tag and the drop camp, and it be such a short hunt. You're welcome to join my group in a couple of weeks. Different wilderness area. We have plenty of community camp gear, so would be minimal gear needed. PM if interested.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on September 03, 2019, 11:04:31 AM
That sucks. I know how much you were looking forward to this hunt with your preseason posts.My hat's off to you sir, that is a very nice offer.
Your tag is good til the 22nd. Hate to see you spend the nonresident money on that tag and the drop camp, and it be such a short hunt. You're welcome to join my group in a couple of weeks. Different wilderness area. We have plenty of community camp gear, so would be minimal gear needed. PM if interested.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 11:04:50 AM
That sucks. I know how much you were looking forward to this hunt with your preseason posts.My hat's off to you sir, that is a very nice offer.
Your tag is good til the 22nd. Hate to see you spend the nonresident money on that tag and the drop camp, and it be such a short hunt. You're welcome to join my group in a couple of weeks. Different wilderness area. We have plenty of community camp gear, so would be minimal gear needed. PM if interested.
100% agree!
Post by: Rainier10 on September 03, 2019, 11:06:46 AM
:yeah: Solid offer.That sucks. I know how much you were looking forward to this hunt with your preseason posts.My hat's off to you sir, that is a very nice offer.
Your tag is good til the 22nd. Hate to see you spend the nonresident money on that tag and the drop camp, and it be such a short hunt. You're welcome to join my group in a couple of weeks. Different wilderness area. We have plenty of community camp gear, so would be minimal gear needed. PM if interested.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 11:08:33 AM
My "I wonder" is what were the discussed expectations and reactions if things change regarding camp location and game. What was the expectation set regarding the area and who picked it. Can't control the game. Did the outfitter provide the service agreed upon?
My initial discussion with him was that my dad and I are two experienced hunters who were looking for a quality spot to hunt elk. I let him know I wasn't worried about the ride in distance or whatever, as long as it was a good area that I could hopefully get my dad his first archery elk. The agreement was also that if we got something down, he would come in and get it within a few days which wouldn't have happened and brought up another question we talked about. What would he have done if both of us tagged out the first day? Would we have been stuck waiting 8 days in camp with quarters hanging in trees and us just sitting there...?
Post by: Ridgerunner on September 03, 2019, 11:10:57 AM
Post by: Bob33 on September 03, 2019, 11:13:15 AM
Post by: CoryTDF on September 03, 2019, 11:17:38 AM
The Eagle Caps are freaking awesome! I just got back from a hiking trip in there with my family. I was all around Bear Lake and Looking Glass Lake. Never saw any elk there but did see some old sign. and thought I smelled them a few times. Fishing was not great this year but it was a really fun trip. Hope you can find a silver lining in your though situation.
Post by: bobcat on September 03, 2019, 11:18:04 AM
Quote
What would he have done if both of us tagged out the first day? Would we have been stuck waiting 8 days in camp with quarters hanging in trees and us just sitting there...?
Seems like he must have been pretty sure that packing an elk out of your camp wouldn't be necessary. :dunno:
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 11:19:42 AM
That's a shame. It sounds like he didn't have current information to base the location on. Google Earth can show geography but not wildlife.
Yes, he had ridden through and saw some sign and the country looks nice from google earth but once you put your boots on the ground, its obvious that it wasn't huntable, especially with a bow!
Post by: idaho guy on September 03, 2019, 11:20:08 AM
My "I wonder" is what were the discussed expectations and reactions if things change regarding camp location and game. What was the expectation set regarding the area and who picked it. Can't control the game. Did the outfitter provide the service agreed upon?
I would say no he did not provide agreed upon service I am sure the expectation would not be a horse ride but a drop camp where there was "some" elk. Sure no one can control what the elk do but doesn't sound like a place the elk had been for quite a while. We had a bush plane drop us in AK for a caribou hunt and the caribou were scarce but the pilot did enough recon to drop us where there were at least some animals. We missed the migration by a long shot nobodys fault there but effort was made to get us where we had a chance. We hiked our butts off but got 2 bulls. We were also able to use satellite phone to get out early but it took 2 says for him to arrive due to weather :chuckle: Sorry to hear about that vandeman I probably would have pulled out just to save vacation time for another hunt
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 11:25:05 AM
My "I wonder" is what were the discussed expectations and reactions if things change regarding camp location and game. What was the expectation set regarding the area and who picked it. Can't control the game. Did the outfitter provide the service agreed upon?
I would say no he did not provide agreed upon service I am sure the expectation would not be a horse ride but a drop camp where there was "some" elk. Sure no one can control what the elk do but doesn't sound like a place the elk had been for quite a while. We had a bush plane drop us in AK for a caribou hunt and the caribou were scarce but the pilot did enough recon to drop us where there were at least some animals. We missed the migration by a long shot nobodys fault there but effort was made to get us where we had a chance. We hiked our butts off but got 2 bulls. We were also able to use satellite phone to get out early but it took 2 says for him to arrive due to weather :chuckle: Sorry to hear about that vandeman I probably would have pulled out just to save vacation time for another hunt
Exactly. The lack of even areas that you could hunt were what forced me to leave. It took A LOT for me to get to the point of actually walking out that early but I just felt like it was the prudent thing to do. Cut our losses
Post by: h20hunter on September 03, 2019, 11:44:11 AM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on September 03, 2019, 11:47:01 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on September 03, 2019, 11:47:33 AM
With that said, it's tough love time buddy! You've got a valid tag, during an open season, with vacation time on the books and you're sitting at work sulking on the internet? You are a more motivated individual than that. Go home, grab your gear, and get your ass back on the mountain sir :tup:
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 11:59:46 AM
Sounds pretty crappy. That's a big investment to come up short like that.
With that said, it's tough love time buddy! You've got a valid tag, during an open season, with vacation time on the books and you're sitting at work sulking on the internet? You are a more motivated individual than that. Go home, grab your gear, and get your ass back on the mountain sir :tup:
Working on that as we speak. I am trying to get all my ducks in a row here at work and home and get ahead of of the game so we can give it another go in a few weeks.
I appreciate the tough love for sure!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on September 03, 2019, 12:03:17 PM
I assumed that would be the answer but figured I'd call you out publicly just to be safe :chuckle:Sounds pretty crappy. That's a big investment to come up short like that.
With that said, it's tough love time buddy! You've got a valid tag, during an open season, with vacation time on the books and you're sitting at work sulking on the internet? You are a more motivated individual than that. Go home, grab your gear, and get your ass back on the mountain sir :tup:
Working on that as we speak. I am trying to get all my ducks in a row here at work and home and get ahead of of the game so we can give it another go in a few weeks.
I appreciate the tough love for sure!
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 12:05:52 PM
I assumed that would be the answer but figured I'd call you out publicly just to be safe :chuckle:Sounds pretty crappy. That's a big investment to come up short like that.
With that said, it's tough love time buddy! You've got a valid tag, during an open season, with vacation time on the books and you're sitting at work sulking on the internet? You are a more motivated individual than that. Go home, grab your gear, and get your ass back on the mountain sir :tup:
Working on that as we speak. I am trying to get all my ducks in a row here at work and home and get ahead of of the game so we can give it another go in a few weeks.
I appreciate the tough love for sure!
Now that its public I can't back out or my reputation of somewhat of a hardcore hunter would be ruined! :yike: :chuckle:
Post by: gee_unit360 on September 03, 2019, 12:09:25 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on September 03, 2019, 12:22:37 PM
No, this was a full priced deal. He has a camp down lower, about 6 miles away that he has dropped people from for a while. We actually hiked down to it and hunted around it as well. It wasn't good either. He only does drop camps and no guided hunts
why would you go so early? i know guys get all hyped up about the start of elk season but man to pay a guy to drop you off in august and then be upset about elk hunting being crap.uh, its august... give it three weeks. quite frankly the higher the better in that low success rate time frame. and before i get blown up by all the experts. yup, ive killed bulls labor day weekend.
and nope, its not worth the time. if is a day or two within an hour of the house i may go out if its not 100 degrees. plan a multi day drop camp and its expense? thats nuts...
Post by: 2MANY on September 03, 2019, 12:27:03 PM
Post by: 92xj on September 03, 2019, 12:52:08 PM
And you are offering this criticism why???
Because he knows Vande's schedule, reasoning, and justification for picking early dates, duh.
Of course Vande had the whole season off of work and just threw a dart at the calendar and let that dart pick the dates. Clearly everyone is wide open and has the choice to pick whatever dates throughout elk season that they want and there are never any restrictions outside of hunting that dictate what dates can be spent in the woods.
Post by: Timberstalker on September 03, 2019, 12:58:37 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on September 03, 2019, 01:05:35 PM
And you are offering this criticism why???
because he sounded surprised of the outcome. when it should have been expected. pick poor dates, get poor results, bitch about the outfitter on the internet. check
the stream of sympathy just seemed ridiculous to me. even guys calling on outing the outfitter for his terrible business practice. he dropped the guy off when the guy asked to be dropped off. sounds like t was a sound transaction based on a poor or at least unrealistic expectation decision from the client. you went elk hunting in august with a bow. you got what the same results 90% of guys who make that decision get.
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 03, 2019, 01:21:05 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 01:26:53 PM
And you are offering this criticism why???
because he sounded surprised of the outcome. when it should have been expected. pick poor dates, get poor results, bitch about the outfitter on the internet. check
the stream of sympathy just seemed ridiculous to me. even guys calling on outing the outfitter for his terrible business practice. he dropped the guy off when the guy asked to be dropped off. sounds like t was a sound transaction based on a poor or at least unrealistic expectation decision from the client. you went elk hunting in august with a bow. you got what the same results 90% of guys who make that decision get.
You sir, know all. I bow down to your ultimate knowledge. On my next trip, I will make sure to consult your expertise.
Post by: theleo on September 03, 2019, 01:29:18 PM
The reasons he choose the dates he did doesn't really matter. The criticism for paying for a drop camp that early is valid. A DIY camping trip makes sense but paying for a drop camp in an area you've never been and complaining about tough conditions is a bit of a head scratcher. This is a case of neither party being particularly innocent. I'm sure communication and overselling were issues, but throwing the towel in after 2 days of ruff conditions at the end of August is hard to defend. I can vouch that he didn't have a lot of directions to go, he really only had one, but it's also an area that gets better as the season progresses and animals get pressured. It sucks he didn't have a good trip, but expecting to be parked in the middle of good elk hunting at the end of August is a huge ask for anywhere that doesn't have a high fence.And you are offering this criticism why???
Because he knows Vande's schedule, reasoning, and justification for picking early dates, duh.
Post by: lord grizzly on September 03, 2019, 01:31:44 PM
The reasons he choose the dates he did doesn't really matter. The criticism for paying for a drop camp that early is valid. A DIY camping trip makes sense but paying for a drop camp in an area you've never been and complaining about tough conditions is a bit of a head scratcher. This is a case of neither party being particularly innocent. I'm sure communication and overselling were issues, but throwing the towel in after 2 days of ruff conditions at the end of August is hard to defend. I can vouch that he didn't have a lot of directions to go, he really only had one, but it's also an area that gets better as the season progresses and animals get pressured. It sucks he didn't have a good trip, but expecting to be parked in the middle of good elk hunting at the end of August is a huge ask for anywhere that doesn't have a high fence.And you are offering this criticism why???
Because he knows Vande's schedule, reasoning, and justification for picking early dates, duh.
be careful with all that reason and logic around here. its not appreciated.
Post by: lord grizzly on September 03, 2019, 01:32:33 PM
And you are offering this criticism why???
because he sounded surprised of the outcome. when it should have been expected. pick poor dates, get poor results, bitch about the outfitter on the internet. check
the stream of sympathy just seemed ridiculous to me. even guys calling on outing the outfitter for his terrible business practice. he dropped the guy off when the guy asked to be dropped off. sounds like t was a sound transaction based on a poor or at least unrealistic expectation decision from the client. you went elk hunting in august with a bow. you got what the same results 90% of guys who make that decision get.
You sir, know all. I bow down to your ultimate knowledge. On my next trip, I will make sure to consult your expertise.
be happy to help. first advice is free and i think i already gave it. dont go elk hunting in august :chuckle:
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 01:42:33 PM
Post by: 92xj on September 03, 2019, 01:43:54 PM
The reasons he choose the dates he did doesn't really matter. The criticism for paying for a drop camp that early is valid. A DIY camping trip makes sense but paying for a drop camp in an area you've never been and complaining about tough conditions is a bit of a head scratcher. This is a case of neither party being particularly innocent. I'm sure communication and overselling were issues, but throwing the towel in after 2 days of ruff conditions at the end of August is hard to defend. I can vouch that he didn't have a lot of directions to go, he really only had one, but it's also an area that gets better as the season progresses and animals get pressured. It sucks he didn't have a good trip, but expecting to be parked in the middle of good elk hunting at the end of August is a huge ask for anywhere that doesn't have a high fence.And you are offering this criticism why???
Because he knows Vande's schedule, reasoning, and justification for picking early dates, duh.
edit: scratch all that. No need for me to make stupid references and sly remarks. in the end, crap situation all around, crappy elk dates, crappy location and expectations from all parties. Let's just hunt and I need to be more positive. Continue on...
Post by: Rainier10 on September 03, 2019, 01:47:59 PM
Because of the moon this year I would hunt the first week of September or the third. We have a trip to Montana planned and we are going next week. It is the week that worked for my hunting partner so it is what it is. If we get some cloud cover at night the moon getting fuller hopefully won't be as big of an issue. If it is clear at night we will focus more attention to midday hunting.
You do what you have to do but if the elk aren't there you are kind of screwed.
Post by: gasman on September 03, 2019, 01:48:25 PM
Post by: 2MANY on September 03, 2019, 02:24:10 PM
That being said I could not disagree more with the comment below.
"expecting to be parked in the middle of good elk hunting at the end of August is a huge ask for anywhere that doesn't have a high fence."
When I plant my own butt in the elk woods this is exactly what I target and expect.
99% of the time it's exactly what I experience.
Granted the elk might be more nocturnal and quiet the first week of September.
I cannot speak for this specific unit in Oregon and I agree with Karl's advise.
Good luck.
The year has just started.
Post by: theleo on September 03, 2019, 02:42:48 PM
Exactly. I feel for Vande that his trip didn't turn out like we all hoped it would, but hunting this early is a roll of the dice at best. The location could have been good, but wasn't. Elk could have been there (I know people that hunt the general area each year) but they weren't. It was a roll of the dice that didn't pay off. I just see both sides of it and can't say it was all the outfitters fault. Vande was put in an area that can be productive, but it just wasn't this year/trip. There's not much an outfitter can do at that point, schedules are full of packing people, packing meat as the need arises, wrangling stock, and each trip is wear and tare on equipment and animals... Just a crummy situation all the way around.
edit: scratch all that. No need for me to make stupid references and sly remarks. in the end, crap situation all around, crappy elk dates, crappy location and expectations from all parties. Let's just hunt and I need to be more positive. Continue on...
Post by: Crunchy on September 03, 2019, 03:00:23 PM
Post by: theleo on September 03, 2019, 03:04:39 PM
I have no ax to grind here.That's what I look for each time I go out as well, just not a great expectation to have for the Eagle Caps when a spot is picked a month+ in advance. The upper portions especially, don't have the habitat that will anchor elk to a location. Lots of open granite, sparse timber, not much to keep animals in a condensed area if wolves come through or a couple lions are really active. If you can move to find elk it's not bad. If you're fixed to one spot you're doing great if you can average like a major league hitter, getting it rite once out every 3 years is phenomenal.
That being said I could not disagree more with the comment below.
"expecting to be parked in the middle of good elk hunting at the end of August is a huge ask for anywhere that doesn't have a high fence."
When I plant my own butt in the elk woods this is exactly what I target and expect.
99% of the time it's exactly what I experience.
Granted the elk might be more nocturnal and quiet the first week of September.
I cannot speak for this specific unit in Oregon and I agree with Karl's advise.
Good luck.
The year has just started.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 03:21:18 PM
I have no ax to grind here.That's what I look for each time I go out as well, just not a great expectation to have for the Eagle Caps when a spot is picked a month+ in advance. The upper portions especially, don't have the habitat that will anchor elk to a location. Lots of open granite, sparse timber, not much to keep animals in a condensed area if wolves come through or a couple lions are really active. If you can move to find elk it's not bad. If you're fixed to one spot you're doing great if you can average like a major league hitter, getting it rite once out every 3 years is phenomenal.
That being said I could not disagree more with the comment below.
"expecting to be parked in the middle of good elk hunting at the end of August is a huge ask for anywhere that doesn't have a high fence."
When I plant my own butt in the elk woods this is exactly what I target and expect.
99% of the time it's exactly what I experience.
Granted the elk might be more nocturnal and quiet the first week of September.
I cannot speak for this specific unit in Oregon and I agree with Karl's advise.
Good luck.
The year has just started.
:yeah: I think the biggest issues for us was it was an area he had never set a camp or really explored himself, it just looked good. On top of that, he set us at almost the highest point so we had to "hunt" down then hike back out and it was very tough.
Post by: C-Money on September 03, 2019, 03:26:31 PM
Post by: NorseNW on September 03, 2019, 03:39:51 PM
I make three hunting trips to Eastern Oregon each season. Seven hour drive each way. First trip is to set up trail cams and scout to see where the elk are hanging (new bedding areas etc). Also get an idea of where the other camps are. Rarely do we get into them good during the opener. This year was no different the woods were quiet but we saw elk each day. Most of the action we get is the last 10 days of the season, so we hunt all of those dates. Otherwise it is just three day trips to stay on top of the action and get into elk shape. Scratch this last trip you made as a scouting trip and get back down there.
I don't know Crunchy other than he was nice enough to give me guidance last year but I have to say he has a great attitude here as he seems to very often. I would use it if I were you - pick a different spot and get back out there. As mentioned previously - it beats being at work and if I may use a fishing anecdote - you gonna get skunked if you stay at home. Get out in those woods my friend!
Post by: theleo on September 03, 2019, 03:53:18 PM
My money would be he was thinking that if elk weren't there when he dropped you off the pressure from down the canyon would push them up to you guys after a couple of days. No reason you'd know it, but that drainage you were at the top of receives a ton of pressure from guys accessing it from the bottom via the main river trail. This might be the first time he's put someone there, but you're not the first to camp there for elk hunting.I have no ax to grind here.That's what I look for each time I go out as well, just not a great expectation to have for the Eagle Caps when a spot is picked a month+ in advance. The upper portions especially, don't have the habitat that will anchor elk to a location. Lots of open granite, sparse timber, not much to keep animals in a condensed area if wolves come through or a couple lions are really active. If you can move to find elk it's not bad. If you're fixed to one spot you're doing great if you can average like a major league hitter, getting it rite once out every 3 years is phenomenal.
That being said I could not disagree more with the comment below.
"expecting to be parked in the middle of good elk hunting at the end of August is a huge ask for anywhere that doesn't have a high fence."
When I plant my own butt in the elk woods this is exactly what I target and expect.
99% of the time it's exactly what I experience.
Granted the elk might be more nocturnal and quiet the first week of September.
I cannot speak for this specific unit in Oregon and I agree with Karl's advise.
Good luck.
The year has just started.
:yeah: I think the biggest issues for us was it was an area he had never set a camp or really explored himself, it just looked good. On top of that, he set us at almost the highest point so we had to "hunt" down then hike back out and it was very tough.
Yes, incredibly tough country on foot. That's why I said I'd help you out if I could. If you're going back I can give you an area to look at that you should be able to tackle on foot or, worst case scenario, call a good samaritan with access to mules to pack an animal out. Sorry it didn't turn out like you hoped.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 03, 2019, 03:58:06 PM
My money would be he was thinking that if elk weren't there when he dropped you off the pressure from down the canyon would push them up to you guys after a couple of days. No reason you'd know it, but that drainage you were at the top of receives a ton of pressure from guys accessing it from the bottom via the main river trail. This might be the first time he's put someone there, but you're not the first to camp there for elk hunting.I have no ax to grind here.That's what I look for each time I go out as well, just not a great expectation to have for the Eagle Caps when a spot is picked a month+ in advance. The upper portions especially, don't have the habitat that will anchor elk to a location. Lots of open granite, sparse timber, not much to keep animals in a condensed area if wolves come through or a couple lions are really active. If you can move to find elk it's not bad. If you're fixed to one spot you're doing great if you can average like a major league hitter, getting it rite once out every 3 years is phenomenal.
That being said I could not disagree more with the comment below.
"expecting to be parked in the middle of good elk hunting at the end of August is a huge ask for anywhere that doesn't have a high fence."
When I plant my own butt in the elk woods this is exactly what I target and expect.
99% of the time it's exactly what I experience.
Granted the elk might be more nocturnal and quiet the first week of September.
I cannot speak for this specific unit in Oregon and I agree with Karl's advise.
Good luck.
The year has just started.
:yeah: I think the biggest issues for us was it was an area he had never set a camp or really explored himself, it just looked good. On top of that, he set us at almost the highest point so we had to "hunt" down then hike back out and it was very tough.
Yes, incredibly tough country on foot. That's why I said I'd help you out if I could. If you're going back I can give you an area to look at that you should be able to tackle on foot or, worst case scenario, call a good samaritan with access to mules to pack an animal out. Sorry it didn't turn out like you hoped.
Good information to know and as always, your offer is very much appreciated!
Post by: Matth on September 04, 2019, 08:18:00 AM
Exactly. I feel for Vande that his trip didn't turn out like we all hoped it would, but hunting this early is a roll of the dice at best. The location could have been good, but wasn't. Elk could have been there (I know people that hunt the general area each year) but they weren't. It was a roll of the dice that didn't pay off. I just see both sides of it and can't say it was all the outfitters fault. Vande was put in an area that can be productive, but it just wasn't this year/trip. There's not much an outfitter can do at that point, schedules are full of packing people, packing meat as the need arises, wrangling stock, and each trip is wear and tare on equipment and animals... Just a crummy situation all the way around.
edit: scratch all that. No need for me to make stupid references and sly remarks. in the end, crap situation all around, crappy elk dates, crappy location and expectations from all parties. Let's just hunt and I need to be more positive. Continue on...
Exactly this!!!
I have hunted this general area in the past, and always chose to be on top so i could go 3 directions. It was very common for us to put on 14 to 17 miles in a day running all over the country side locating elk. I have hunted the caps quite a bit, and i don't recall any time being an easy hunt. Sorry for the poor trip.
Post by: lord grizzly on September 04, 2019, 08:36:49 AM
Exactly. I feel for Vande that his trip didn't turn out like we all hoped it would, but hunting this early is a roll of the dice at best. The location could have been good, but wasn't. Elk could have been there (I know people that hunt the general area each year) but they weren't. It was a roll of the dice that didn't pay off. I just see both sides of it and can't say it was all the outfitters fault. Vande was put in an area that can be productive, but it just wasn't this year/trip. There's not much an outfitter can do at that point, schedules are full of packing people, packing meat as the need arises, wrangling stock, and each trip is wear and tare on equipment and animals... Just a crummy situation all the way around.
edit: scratch all that. No need for me to make stupid references and sly remarks. in the end, crap situation all around, crappy elk dates, crappy location and expectations from all parties. Let's just hunt and I need to be more positive. Continue on...
Exactly this!!!
I have hunted this general area in the past, and always chose to be on top so i could go 3 directions. It was very common for us to put on 14 to 17 miles in a day running all over the country side locating elk. I have hunted the caps quite a bit, and i don't recall any time being an easy hunt. Sorry for the poor trip.
why anyone would want to hunt elk up hill is beyond me. thats another gripe i kinda left alone in the post. the tops where you want to be and that outfitter put him there. hunt down hill, thats another kinda 101 elk hunting thing. t least i thought it was...
Post by: vandeman17 on September 04, 2019, 09:26:29 AM
Exactly. I feel for Vande that his trip didn't turn out like we all hoped it would, but hunting this early is a roll of the dice at best. The location could have been good, but wasn't. Elk could have been there (I know people that hunt the general area each year) but they weren't. It was a roll of the dice that didn't pay off. I just see both sides of it and can't say it was all the outfitters fault. Vande was put in an area that can be productive, but it just wasn't this year/trip. There's not much an outfitter can do at that point, schedules are full of packing people, packing meat as the need arises, wrangling stock, and each trip is wear and tare on equipment and animals... Just a crummy situation all the way around.
edit: scratch all that. No need for me to make stupid references and sly remarks. in the end, crap situation all around, crappy elk dates, crappy location and expectations from all parties. Let's just hunt and I need to be more positive. Continue on...
Exactly this!!!
I have hunted this general area in the past, and always chose to be on top so i could go 3 directions. It was very common for us to put on 14 to 17 miles in a day running all over the country side locating elk. I have hunted the caps quite a bit, and i don't recall any time being an easy hunt. Sorry for the poor trip.
why anyone would want to hunt elk up hill is beyond me. thats another gripe i kinda left alone in the post. the tops where you want to be and that outfitter put him there. hunt down hill, thats another kinda 101 elk hunting thing. t least i thought it was...
I personally would MUCH rather hunt up hill and then either pack or hike back to camp downhill.
Post by: Igor on September 04, 2019, 09:31:43 AM
Exactly. I feel for Vande that his trip didn't turn out like we all hoped it would, but hunting this early is a roll of the dice at best. The location could have been good, but wasn't. Elk could have been there (I know people that hunt the general area each year) but they weren't. It was a roll of the dice that didn't pay off. I just see both sides of it and can't say it was all the outfitters fault. Vande was put in an area that can be productive, but it just wasn't this year/trip. There's not much an outfitter can do at that point, schedules are full of packing people, packing meat as the need arises, wrangling stock, and each trip is wear and tare on equipment and animals... Just a crummy situation all the way around.
edit: scratch all that. No need for me to make stupid references and sly remarks. in the end, crap situation all around, crappy elk dates, crappy location and expectations from all parties. Let's just hunt and I need to be more positive. Continue on...
Exactly this!!!
I have hunted this general area in the past, and always chose to be on top so i could go 3 directions. It was very common for us to put on 14 to 17 miles in a day running all over the country side locating elk. I have hunted the caps quite a bit, and i don't recall any time being an easy hunt. Sorry for the poor trip.
why anyone would want to hunt elk up hill is beyond me. thats another gripe i kinda left alone in the post. the tops where you want to be and that outfitter put him there. hunt down hill, thats another kinda 101 elk hunting thing. t least i thought it was...
I personally would MUCH rather hunt up hill and then either pack or hike back to camp downhill.
That's what my dear old Dad always taught us.........always hunt uphill from camp or from the truck.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 04, 2019, 09:54:31 AM
Post by: h20hunter on September 04, 2019, 09:56:40 AM
Post by: Matth on September 04, 2019, 10:09:15 AM
I would 100% agree with this, until i was packed 10 plus miles into a wilderness, and had crawl 2000 feet up out of a hole to check a neighboring drainage. If the elk are not located in the bottom that you are camped in your kinda screwed, and i would guess they are not in that bottom because you are camped in it. Hunting out of a truck is a totally different story.Exactly. I feel for Vande that his trip didn't turn out like we all hoped it would, but hunting this early is a roll of the dice at best. The location could have been good, but wasn't. Elk could have been there (I know people that hunt the general area each year) but they weren't. It was a roll of the dice that didn't pay off. I just see both sides of it and can't say it was all the outfitters fault. Vande was put in an area that can be productive, but it just wasn't this year/trip. There's not much an outfitter can do at that point, schedules are full of packing people, packing meat as the need arises, wrangling stock, and each trip is wear and tare on equipment and animals... Just a crummy situation all the way around.
edit: scratch all that. No need for me to make stupid references and sly remarks. in the end, crap situation all around, crappy elk dates, crappy location and expectations from all parties. Let's just hunt and I need to be more positive. Continue on...
Exactly this!!!
I have hunted this general area in the past, and always chose to be on top so i could go 3 directions. It was very common for us to put on 14 to 17 miles in a day running all over the country side locating elk. I have hunted the caps quite a bit, and i don't recall any time being an easy hunt. Sorry for the poor trip.
why anyone would want to hunt elk up hill is beyond me. thats another gripe i kinda left alone in the post. the tops where you want to be and that outfitter put him there. hunt down hill, thats another kinda 101 elk hunting thing. t least i thought it was...
I personally would MUCH rather hunt up hill and then either pack or hike back to camp downhill.
Post by: theleo on September 04, 2019, 10:22:37 AM
You guys are nuts. Me and my buddy Shane B have learned to set camp in a mobile home with a shower and always hunt the pasture. Going up or downhill is for amateurs.We can't all be esteemed and wealthy land barons such as yourself. :kneel:
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 04, 2019, 10:24:20 AM
You guys are nuts. Me and my buddy Shane B have learned to set camp in a mobile home with a shower and always hunt the pasture. Going up or downhill is for amateurs.
My kind of elk hunt. Did you guys have the caviar, truffles, and vodka, as well? That does require some stamina.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 04, 2019, 10:28:52 AM
You guys are nuts. Me and my buddy Shane B have learned to set camp in a mobile home with a shower and always hunt the pasture. Going up or downhill is for amateurs.
My kind of elk hunt. Did you guys have the caviar, truffles, and vodka, as well? That does require some stamina.
Due to safety concerns, we do not allow truffles on our hunts.
Post by: theleo on September 04, 2019, 10:29:02 AM
Post by: Matth on September 04, 2019, 10:43:16 AM
Unless there's a well used trail in the bottom of whatever drainage you're looking at, you navigate the Eagle Caps from the ridge tops. Don't give up elevation unless you have to.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!! My Man. To steep, and deep to start in the bottom every day.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 04, 2019, 10:44:22 AM
Unless there's a well used trail in the bottom of whatever drainage you're looking at, you navigate the Eagle Caps from the ridge tops. Don't give up elevation unless you have to.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!! My Man. To steep, and deep to start in the bottom every day.
For me, after dropping down in and hunting lower, it killed me hiking back to camp. No idea what the heck I would have done if I would have killed one down there. :yike:
Post by: Machias on September 04, 2019, 10:45:51 AM
Post by: Matth on September 04, 2019, 10:59:13 AM
Unless there's a well used trail in the bottom of whatever drainage you're looking at, you navigate the Eagle Caps from the ridge tops. Don't give up elevation unless you have to.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!! My Man. To steep, and deep to start in the bottom every day.
For me, after dropping down in and hunting lower, it killed me hiking back to camp. No idea what the heck I would have done if I would have killed one down there. :yike:
Bone it out hang it in a cool dark place, and call the packer to come and get it. I have hung them for several days in there waiting on a ride out. Honestly i'm not poking at your situation it is very unfortunate, i am just speaking from experience hunting the caps, and the country always seems to grow once you are actually trying to navigate it. In my opinion that country is as much a mental game as it is a physical one, it is huge and the elk move a lot. We took a guy in with us 3 years ago that hunted for the first 3 days, then sat in camp for 3 more waiting for us to tag out.
Post by: theleo on September 04, 2019, 11:07:16 AM
Bingo. If you paid money for a service, use it. No reason to pack meat up all that vertical when you paid someone to pack for you.Unless there's a well used trail in the bottom of whatever drainage you're looking at, you navigate the Eagle Caps from the ridge tops. Don't give up elevation unless you have to.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!! My Man. To steep, and deep to start in the bottom every day.
For me, after dropping down in and hunting lower, it killed me hiking back to camp. No idea what the heck I would have done if I would have killed one down there. :yike:
Bone it out hang it in a cool dark place, and call the packer to come and get it.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 04, 2019, 11:33:32 AM
Bingo. If you paid money for a service, use it. No reason to pack meat up all that vertical when you paid someone to pack for you.Unless there's a well used trail in the bottom of whatever drainage you're looking at, you navigate the Eagle Caps from the ridge tops. Don't give up elevation unless you have to.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!! My Man. To steep, and deep to start in the bottom every day.
For me, after dropping down in and hunting lower, it killed me hiking back to camp. No idea what the heck I would have done if I would have killed one down there. :yike:
Bone it out hang it in a cool dark place, and call the packer to come and get it.
Before the hunt, we were told that he would try to come in and pack it out within a few days if possible. When we texted back and forth while actually up there, he said there was no way to get up to us, even to pack us completely out, until our originally scheduled date unless it was an emergency. Before knowing this, we already said if we killed one, it was going down hill and hung near the river in a cool, shady spot. Little did we know it would have had to hang there for potentially 8-9 days
Post by: lord grizzly on September 04, 2019, 01:30:31 PM
Unless there's a well used trail in the bottom of whatever drainage you're looking at, you navigate the Eagle Caps from the ridge tops. Don't give up elevation unless you have to.
yup. elk hunting is about persistence (often anyway) and up hill to hunt everyday i promises will wear you out well before the elk wear out. agin i kinda thought this was 101 stuff. surprising to see how many people think going vertical every day to hunt is productive. i bust my as to get to the top with camp then start running ridges to bedding/feeding areas. cover way more way faster from up there. no way im climbing every morning. especially when all these bottom up road hunters just push them to ya
Post by: theleo on September 04, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
Hauling meat constitutes an emergency.Bingo. If you paid money for a service, use it. No reason to pack meat up all that vertical when you paid someone to pack for you.Unless there's a well used trail in the bottom of whatever drainage you're looking at, you navigate the Eagle Caps from the ridge tops. Don't give up elevation unless you have to.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!! My Man. To steep, and deep to start in the bottom every day.
For me, after dropping down in and hunting lower, it killed me hiking back to camp. No idea what the heck I would have done if I would have killed one down there. :yike:
Bone it out hang it in a cool dark place, and call the packer to come and get it.
Before the hunt, we were told that he would try to come in and pack it out within a few days if possible. When we texted back and forth while actually up there, he said there was no way to get up to us, even to pack us completely out, until our originally scheduled date unless it was an emergency. Before knowing this, we already said if we killed one, it was going down hill and hung near the river in a cool, shady spot. Little did we know it would have had to hang there for potentially 8-9 days
Order of packing importance for most outfitters:
1) Packing people/supplies in.
2) Packing meat out.
3) Packing people out.
4) Packing people out early for non emergencies.
Leaving meat hanging to long introduces some legal liabilities that outfitters don't want to deal with. Same for shorting someone on their trip or taking to long to get them out. Getting guys out early without some sort of life and death emergency usually falls under "well if I don't have anything else going on" priority level. I guarantee that outfitter was neck deep packing people in when you wanted out and could have had meat on the board to get packed as well.
I'm thinking you've never been around a horse intensive outfitting operation from the work side of it. If you had you'd understand how an opening week that has a long weekend means running around like crazy with 20 hour days to try to keep up with what's in front of you already. There's really no breathing room till the second week when the folks that took advantage of the long weekend are out and the people/camps that are there to just have the woods to themselves are put in.
I get your point of view on the whole deal, believe me I get it, I really really really get it. I've seen it multiple times from both sides. If you need to assign everything going wrong on the outfitter, go for it, I don't have any skin in the game and don't care if they carry the blame or not. If you want to get anything for your money spent, you're going to have to treat this as a learning experience so next time you do a drop camp somewhere you can be better prepared.
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 04, 2019, 01:37:58 PM
You guys are nuts. Me and my buddy Shane B have learned to set camp in a mobile home with a shower and always hunt the pasture. Going up or downhill is for amateurs.
My kind of elk hunt. Did you guys have the caviar, truffles, and vodka, as well? That does require some stamina.
Due to safety concerns, we do not allow truffles on our hunts.
:chuckle:
Post by: 2MANY on September 04, 2019, 01:43:28 PM
The drop camp hunts I have heard my friends talk about typically require you to pack the meat to camp unless it's hanging on the trail on the way out.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 04, 2019, 01:45:02 PM
Hauling meat constitutes an emergency.Bingo. If you paid money for a service, use it. No reason to pack meat up all that vertical when you paid someone to pack for you.Unless there's a well used trail in the bottom of whatever drainage you're looking at, you navigate the Eagle Caps from the ridge tops. Don't give up elevation unless you have to.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!! My Man. To steep, and deep to start in the bottom every day.
For me, after dropping down in and hunting lower, it killed me hiking back to camp. No idea what the heck I would have done if I would have killed one down there. :yike:
Bone it out hang it in a cool dark place, and call the packer to come and get it.
Before the hunt, we were told that he would try to come in and pack it out within a few days if possible. When we texted back and forth while actually up there, he said there was no way to get up to us, even to pack us completely out, until our originally scheduled date unless it was an emergency. Before knowing this, we already said if we killed one, it was going down hill and hung near the river in a cool, shady spot. Little did we know it would have had to hang there for potentially 8-9 days
Order of packing importance for most outfitters:
1) Packing people/supplies in.
2) Packing meat out.
3) Packing people out.
4) Packing people out early for non emergencies.
Leaving meat hanging to long introduces some legal liabilities that outfitters don't want to deal with. Same for shorting someone on their trip or taking to long to get them out. Getting guys out early without some sort of life and death emergency usually falls under "well if I don't have anything else going on" priority level. I guarantee that outfitter was neck deep packing people in when you wanted out and could have had meat on the board to get packed as well.
I'm thinking you've never been around a horse intensive outfitting operation from the work side of it. If you had you'd understand how an opening week that has a long weekend means running around like crazy with 20 hour days to try to keep up with what's in front of you already. There's really no breathing room till the second week when the folks that took advantage of the long weekend are out and the people/camps that are there to just have the woods to themselves are put in.
I get your point of view on the whole deal, believe me I get it, I really really really get it. I've seen it multiple times from both sides. If you need to assign everything going wrong on the outfitter, go for it, I don't have any skin in the game and don't care if they carry the blame or not. If you want to get anything for your money spent, you're going to have to treat this as a learning experience so next time you do a drop camp somewhere you can be better prepared.
He specifically told us, on multiple occasions, that if we got one down he would try to come in and get it out within a few days. He knew full well he was fully booked and I would have had zero issue if he said it wasn't an option but saying it was, then it wasn't, was our issue.
As for Lord Grizzly, again, we get it, you know all and the rest of us are mere mortals. Give it a rest
Post by: theleo on September 04, 2019, 01:48:01 PM
I really don't have a preference one way or the other in general. Most of what I do in your state I'm fine moving around via the bottoms. It's just in the Eagle Caps I don't know of a single creek or river bottom that isn't full of match sticked timber. %90 of the time you're way ahead to just gain the elevation to get out of the tangles and downed timber, to try and get anywhere instead of heading down a bottom of some sort. It might be shorter on the map to go down hill but it can be 10x the effort.Unless there's a well used trail in the bottom of whatever drainage you're looking at, you navigate the Eagle Caps from the ridge tops. Don't give up elevation unless you have to.
yup. elk hunting is about persistence (often anyway) and up hill to hunt everyday i promises will wear you out well before the elk wear out. agin i kinda thought this was 101 stuff. surprising to see how many people think going vertical every day to hunt is productive. i bust my as to get to the top with camp then start running ridges to bedding/feeding areas. cover way more way faster from up there. no way im climbing every morning. especially when all these bottom up road hunters just push them to ya
Post by: theleo on September 04, 2019, 02:03:44 PM
What you're missing Vande is there's a difference between packing MEAT and packing YOU. Unless the discussion was "I couldn't even pack any animal you get for at least 3-4 days" he was going about things how most outfitters do. Even then I'd bet it was more an issue of getting an antsy client off his back more than his actual ability to get the meat packed in a timely manner.Hauling meat constitutes an emergency.Bingo. If you paid money for a service, use it. No reason to pack meat up all that vertical when you paid someone to pack for you.Unless there's a well used trail in the bottom of whatever drainage you're looking at, you navigate the Eagle Caps from the ridge tops. Don't give up elevation unless you have to.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!! My Man. To steep, and deep to start in the bottom every day.
For me, after dropping down in and hunting lower, it killed me hiking back to camp. No idea what the heck I would have done if I would have killed one down there. :yike:
Bone it out hang it in a cool dark place, and call the packer to come and get it.
Before the hunt, we were told that he would try to come in and pack it out within a few days if possible. When we texted back and forth while actually up there, he said there was no way to get up to us, even to pack us completely out, until our originally scheduled date unless it was an emergency. Before knowing this, we already said if we killed one, it was going down hill and hung near the river in a cool, shady spot. Little did we know it would have had to hang there for potentially 8-9 days
Order of packing importance for most outfitters:
1) Packing people/supplies in.
2) Packing meat out.
3) Packing people out.
4) Packing people out early for non emergencies.
Leaving meat hanging to long introduces some legal liabilities that outfitters don't want to deal with. Same for shorting someone on their trip or taking to long to get them out. Getting guys out early without some sort of life and death emergency usually falls under "well if I don't have anything else going on" priority level. I guarantee that outfitter was neck deep packing people in when you wanted out and could have had meat on the board to get packed as well.
I'm thinking you've never been around a horse intensive outfitting operation from the work side of it. If you had you'd understand how an opening week that has a long weekend means running around like crazy with 20 hour days to try to keep up with what's in front of you already. There's really no breathing room till the second week when the folks that took advantage of the long weekend are out and the people/camps that are there to just have the woods to themselves are put in.
I get your point of view on the whole deal, believe me I get it, I really really really get it. I've seen it multiple times from both sides. If you need to assign everything going wrong on the outfitter, go for it, I don't have any skin in the game and don't care if they carry the blame or not. If you want to get anything for your money spent, you're going to have to treat this as a learning experience so next time you do a drop camp somewhere you can be better prepared.
He specifically told us, on multiple occasions, that if we got one down he would try to come in and get it out within a few days. He knew full well he was fully booked and I would have had zero issue if he said it wasn't an option but saying it was, then it wasn't, was our issue.
As for Lord Grizzly, again, we get it, you know all and the rest of us are mere mortals. Give it a rest
Post by: vandeman17 on September 04, 2019, 02:07:32 PM
What you're missing Vande is there's a difference between packing MEAT and packing YOU. Unless the discussion was "I couldn't even pack any animal you get for at least 3-4 days" he was going about things how most outfitters do. Even then I'd bet it was more an issue of getting an antsy client off his back more than his actual ability to get the meat packed in a timely manner.Hauling meat constitutes an emergency.Bingo. If you paid money for a service, use it. No reason to pack meat up all that vertical when you paid someone to pack for you.Unless there's a well used trail in the bottom of whatever drainage you're looking at, you navigate the Eagle Caps from the ridge tops. Don't give up elevation unless you have to.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!! My Man. To steep, and deep to start in the bottom every day.
For me, after dropping down in and hunting lower, it killed me hiking back to camp. No idea what the heck I would have done if I would have killed one down there. :yike:
Bone it out hang it in a cool dark place, and call the packer to come and get it.
Before the hunt, we were told that he would try to come in and pack it out within a few days if possible. When we texted back and forth while actually up there, he said there was no way to get up to us, even to pack us completely out, until our originally scheduled date unless it was an emergency. Before knowing this, we already said if we killed one, it was going down hill and hung near the river in a cool, shady spot. Little did we know it would have had to hang there for potentially 8-9 days
Order of packing importance for most outfitters:
1) Packing people/supplies in.
2) Packing meat out.
3) Packing people out.
4) Packing people out early for non emergencies.
Leaving meat hanging to long introduces some legal liabilities that outfitters don't want to deal with. Same for shorting someone on their trip or taking to long to get them out. Getting guys out early without some sort of life and death emergency usually falls under "well if I don't have anything else going on" priority level. I guarantee that outfitter was neck deep packing people in when you wanted out and could have had meat on the board to get packed as well.
I'm thinking you've never been around a horse intensive outfitting operation from the work side of it. If you had you'd understand how an opening week that has a long weekend means running around like crazy with 20 hour days to try to keep up with what's in front of you already. There's really no breathing room till the second week when the folks that took advantage of the long weekend are out and the people/camps that are there to just have the woods to themselves are put in.
I get your point of view on the whole deal, believe me I get it, I really really really get it. I've seen it multiple times from both sides. If you need to assign everything going wrong on the outfitter, go for it, I don't have any skin in the game and don't care if they carry the blame or not. If you want to get anything for your money spent, you're going to have to treat this as a learning experience so next time you do a drop camp somewhere you can be better prepared.
He specifically told us, on multiple occasions, that if we got one down he would try to come in and get it out within a few days. He knew full well he was fully booked and I would have had zero issue if he said it wasn't an option but saying it was, then it wasn't, was our issue.
As for Lord Grizzly, again, we get it, you know all and the rest of us are mere mortals. Give it a rest
So what you are saying was that it was ok that he set false expectations? I had just asked him over the course of us locking in all the details and would have been fine either way. He even just verified before he left camp because I knew we were on top of the mountain and I wanted to plan in the event we killed an elk.
I appreciate your honest feedback but I still don't feel like it was handled very well. If we would have killed two elk first morning, would we have been expected to sit in camp the remaining 9 days until he could come back in?
Post by: idahohuntr on September 04, 2019, 02:53:53 PM
I find it comical that you prescribe a particular hunting method (hunting downhill) as "101 stuff". There are so many variables in elk hunting that suggesting something like "hunting downhill" is always what you do really demonstrates a complete lack of awareness or understanding of many major considerations such as thermals, elk behavior, terrain, seasons, hunting pressure etc.
yup. elk hunting is about persistence (often anyway) and up hill to hunt everyday i promises will wear you out well before the elk wear out. agin i kinda thought this was 101 stuff. surprising to see how many people think going vertical every day to hunt is productive. i bust my as to get to the top with camp then start running ridges to bedding/feeding areas. cover way more way faster from up there. no way im climbing every morning. especially when all these bottom up road hunters just push them to ya
Post by: vandeman17 on September 04, 2019, 03:00:57 PM
I find it comical that you prescribe a particular hunting method (hunting downhill) as "101 stuff". There are so many variables in elk hunting that suggesting something like "hunting downhill" is always what you do really demonstrates a complete lack of awareness or understanding of many major considerations such as thermals, elk behavior, terrain, seasons, hunting pressure etc.
yup. elk hunting is about persistence (often anyway) and up hill to hunt everyday i promises will wear you out well before the elk wear out. agin i kinda thought this was 101 stuff. surprising to see how many people think going vertical every day to hunt is productive. i bust my as to get to the top with camp then start running ridges to bedding/feeding areas. cover way more way faster from up there. no way im climbing every morning. especially when all these bottom up road hunters just push them to ya
:yeah: The guy has zero knowledge of the area we were yet knows exactly how to hunt it :dunno:
Post by: theleo on September 04, 2019, 03:03:59 PM
His over sell would be on him.
So what you are saying was that it was ok that he set false expectations? I had just asked him over the course of us locking in all the details and would have been fine either way. He even just verified before he left camp because I knew we were on top of the mountain and I wanted to plan in the event we killed an elk.
I appreciate your honest feedback but I still don't feel like it was handled very well. If we would have killed two elk first morning, would we have been expected to sit in camp the remaining 9 days until he could come back in?
As to how things would play out if you killed a couple bulls opening morning it'd probably go something like this:
You got a couple of bulls down below your camp. You got the meat somewhere cool in the shade either above or below the meadows. You're able to get back to camp that evening to get a call or signal out that you had animals down and where they're at. The outfitter looks at his plate to see what he's got going, so he can combine a trip packing people/stuff in with packing your meat out in the next day or two (I don't know where all the camps are for this outfitter but I do know I can get to where you were via 4 different trail heads and decent trails that aren't the ones you came in on). The outfitter would get figured out with you where to take the meat, either meeting with one of you so you could get it in your coolers or worst case take it somewhere in Union, La Grande, Wallowa or Enterprise to get it hanging. Either you or your dad would come down and make more permanent plans about the meat if it had to get hung in one of those towns or dealing with it in your coolers. At that point you're scheduled to come out in in however many days are left. Whatever you want to do until then is up to you but there's probably not going to be a dedicated trip in to get you and your stuff until the day you're scheduled to leave. If it was me, whoever went down to make arrangements for the meat would come back up with beer or whiskey in there pack and I'd spend the next few days doing some high mountain trout fishing. The wives would be told the bulls were killed the last day you were able to hunt.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 04, 2019, 03:07:23 PM
His over sell would be on him.
So what you are saying was that it was ok that he set false expectations? I had just asked him over the course of us locking in all the details and would have been fine either way. He even just verified before he left camp because I knew we were on top of the mountain and I wanted to plan in the event we killed an elk.
I appreciate your honest feedback but I still don't feel like it was handled very well. If we would have killed two elk first morning, would we have been expected to sit in camp the remaining 9 days until he could come back in?
As to how things would play out if you killed a couple bulls opening morning it'd probably go something like this:
You got a couple of bulls down below your camp. You got the meat somewhere cool in the shade either above or below the meadows. You're able to get back to camp that evening to get a call or signal out that you had animals down and where they're at. The outfitter looks at his plate to see what he's got going, so he can combine a trip packing people/stuff in with packing your meat out in the next day or two (I don't know where all the camps are for this outfitter but I do know I can get to where you were via 4 different trail heads and decent trails that aren't the ones you came in on). The outfitter would get figured out with you where to take the meat, either meeting with one of you so you could get it in your coolers or worst case take it somewhere in Union, La Grande, Wallowa or Enterprise to get it hanging. Either you or your dad would come down and make more permanent plans about the meat if it had to get hung in one of those towns or dealing with it in your coolers. At that point you're scheduled to come out in in however many days are left. Whatever you want to do until then is up to you but there's probably not going to be a dedicated trip in to get you and your stuff until the day you're scheduled to leave. If it was me, whoever went down to make arrangements for the meat would come back up with beer or whiskey in there pack and I'd spend the next few days doing some high mountain trout fishing. The wives would be told the bulls were killed the last day you were able to hunt.
Would need lots of beer or whiskey to pass that much time :chuckle:
Post by: theleo on September 04, 2019, 03:30:55 PM
If you didn't have enough with you when you packed in at the beginning to get at least one of you through that much down time, that's your fault. You should of only needed to get an extra 1/2 gallon of whiskey to see you boys through till the end in that situation.His over sell would be on him.
So what you are saying was that it was ok that he set false expectations? I had just asked him over the course of us locking in all the details and would have been fine either way. He even just verified before he left camp because I knew we were on top of the mountain and I wanted to plan in the event we killed an elk.
I appreciate your honest feedback but I still don't feel like it was handled very well. If we would have killed two elk first morning, would we have been expected to sit in camp the remaining 9 days until he could come back in?
As to how things would play out if you killed a couple bulls opening morning it'd probably go something like this:
You got a couple of bulls down below your camp. You got the meat somewhere cool in the shade either above or below the meadows. You're able to get back to camp that evening to get a call or signal out that you had animals down and where they're at. The outfitter looks at his plate to see what he's got going, so he can combine a trip packing people/stuff in with packing your meat out in the next day or two (I don't know where all the camps are for this outfitter but I do know I can get to where you were via 4 different trail heads and decent trails that aren't the ones you came in on). The outfitter would get figured out with you where to take the meat, either meeting with one of you so you could get it in your coolers or worst case take it somewhere in Union, La Grande, Wallowa or Enterprise to get it hanging. Either you or your dad would come down and make more permanent plans about the meat if it had to get hung in one of those towns or dealing with it in your coolers. At that point you're scheduled to come out in in however many days are left. Whatever you want to do until then is up to you but there's probably not going to be a dedicated trip in to get you and your stuff until the day you're scheduled to leave. If it was me, whoever went down to make arrangements for the meat would come back up with beer or whiskey in there pack and I'd spend the next few days doing some high mountain trout fishing. The wives would be told the bulls were killed the last day you were able to hunt.
Would need lots of beer or whiskey to pass that much time :chuckle:
Post by: syoungs on September 04, 2019, 03:42:04 PM
If you didn't have enough with you when you packed in at the beginning to get at least one of you through that much down time, that's your fault. You should of only needed to get an extra 1/2 gallon of whiskey to see you boys through till the end in that situation.His over sell would be on him.
So what you are saying was that it was ok that he set false expectations? I had just asked him over the course of us locking in all the details and would have been fine either way. He even just verified before he left camp because I knew we were on top of the mountain and I wanted to plan in the event we killed an elk.
I appreciate your honest feedback but I still don't feel like it was handled very well. If we would have killed two elk first morning, would we have been expected to sit in camp the remaining 9 days until he could come back in?
As to how things would play out if you killed a couple bulls opening morning it'd probably go something like this:
You got a couple of bulls down below your camp. You got the meat somewhere cool in the shade either above or below the meadows. You're able to get back to camp that evening to get a call or signal out that you had animals down and where they're at. The outfitter looks at his plate to see what he's got going, so he can combine a trip packing people/stuff in with packing your meat out in the next day or two (I don't know where all the camps are for this outfitter but I do know I can get to where you were via 4 different trail heads and decent trails that aren't the ones you came in on). The outfitter would get figured out with you where to take the meat, either meeting with one of you so you could get it in your coolers or worst case take it somewhere in Union, La Grande, Wallowa or Enterprise to get it hanging. Either you or your dad would come down and make more permanent plans about the meat if it had to get hung in one of those towns or dealing with it in your coolers. At that point you're scheduled to come out in in however many days are left. Whatever you want to do until then is up to you but there's probably not going to be a dedicated trip in to get you and your stuff until the day you're scheduled to leave. If it was me, whoever went down to make arrangements for the meat would come back up with beer or whiskey in there pack and I'd spend the next few days doing some high mountain trout fishing. The wives would be told the bulls were killed the last day you were able to hunt.
Would need lots of beer or whiskey to pass that much time :chuckle:
I guess I will never get to do a pack in hunt if 1/2 gallon of whiskey is supposed to last me 9 days... :chuckle:
Post by: Matth on September 04, 2019, 03:53:57 PM
Since I didn't graduate from collage but took many 101 level classes I will add one thing.
The drop camp hunts I have heard my friends talk about typically require you to pack the meat to camp unless it's hanging on the trail on the way out.
Not accurate, I have been in the caps 4 times with 2 different outfits, and neither one of them required this. All we had to do is get it to a trail they could get a horse up. In 2016 i killed a bull in the bottom of bear creek nearly 6 miles from camp " that was on top of the mountain" Got back to camp that evening sent a text to Barry, got a text the next evening that it was hanging at such, and such locker in town.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 04, 2019, 04:08:59 PM
Since I didn't graduate from collage but took many 101 level classes I will add one thing.
The drop camp hunts I have heard my friends talk about typically require you to pack the meat to camp unless it's hanging on the trail on the way out.
Not accurate, I have been in the caps 4 times with 2 different outfits, and neither one of them required this. All we had to do is get it to a trail they could get a horse up. In 2016 i killed a bull in the bottom of bear creek nearly 6 miles from camp " that was on top of the mountain" Got back to camp that evening sent a text to Barry, got a text the next evening that it was hanging at such, and such locker in town.
Yes, I had every intention, with him saying that he would try to be in within a few days, to get it quartered and hung somewhere cool. From there, work out a time he would try to be back in and get it to the trail so he just had to load and go
Post by: kentrek on September 04, 2019, 04:13:42 PM
I'd get back out there and have fun !!! Worst case you know where not to go next year, sounds like cool country
Good luck
Post by: vandeman17 on September 04, 2019, 04:28:03 PM
I know the area your in....absolute masher bulls up there :yike: :chuckle:
I'd get back out there and have fun !!! Worst case you know where not to go next year, sounds like cool country
Good luck
Old man and I will be heading back down in a week and a half to a different unit. Same vacation time used and hopefully better results. Looking forward to it
Post by: Matth on September 04, 2019, 04:35:26 PM
That my friend is your best post all day. great attitude, keep pounding.I know the area your in....absolute masher bulls up there :yike: :chuckle:
I'd get back out there and have fun !!! Worst case you know where not to go next year, sounds like cool country
Good luck
Old man and I will be heading back down in a week and a half to a different unit. Same vacation time used and hopefully better results. Looking forward to it
Post by: vandeman17 on September 04, 2019, 04:37:19 PM
That my friend is your best post all day. great attitude, keep pounding.I know the area your in....absolute masher bulls up there :yike: :chuckle:
I'd get back out there and have fun !!! Worst case you know where not to go next year, sounds like cool country
Good luck
Old man and I will be heading back down in a week and a half to a different unit. Same vacation time used and hopefully better results. Looking forward to it
I just love september and chasing elk too much. My dad is convinced our drop camp happened for a reason and I would tend to agree with him. The man upstairs works in mysterious ways
Post by: elkaholic123 on September 04, 2019, 04:53:42 PM
Go get em! 👍I know the area your in....absolute masher bulls up there :yike: :chuckle:
I'd get back out there and have fun !!! Worst case you know where not to go next year, sounds like cool country
Good luck
Old man and I will be heading back down in a week and a half to a different unit. Same vacation time used and hopefully better results. Looking forward to it
Post by: blackpowderhunter on September 05, 2019, 09:50:07 AM
make it happen :tup: the success will be all the sweeter .I know the area your in....absolute masher bulls up there :yike: :chuckle:
I'd get back out there and have fun !!! Worst case you know where not to go next year, sounds like cool country
Good luck
Old man and I will be heading back down in a week and a half to a different unit. Same vacation time used and hopefully better results. Looking forward to it
Post by: bracer40 on September 05, 2019, 10:00:57 AM
I know the area your in....absolute masher bulls up there :yike: :chuckle:
I'd get back out there and have fun !!! Worst case you know where not to go next year, sounds like cool country
Good luck
Old man and I will be heading back down in a week and a half to a different unit. Same vacation time used and hopefully better results. Looking forward to it
Good luck to you and your dad!
Post by: vandeman17 on September 05, 2019, 10:13:45 AM
I know the area your in....absolute masher bulls up there :yike: :chuckle:
I'd get back out there and have fun !!! Worst case you know where not to go next year, sounds like cool country
Good luck
Old man and I will be heading back down in a week and a half to a different unit. Same vacation time used and hopefully better results. Looking forward to it
Good luck to you and your dad!
Much appreciated! Hopefully the next posts will have a better outcome :tup:
Post by: ribka on September 05, 2019, 10:20:08 AM
we'll give you and your dad a group hug when you come back :chuckle: :tup:
season just started
I know the area your in....absolute masher bulls up there :yike: :chuckle:
I'd get back out there and have fun !!! Worst case you know where not to go next year, sounds like cool country
Good luck
Old man and I will be heading back down in a week and a half to a different unit. Same vacation time used and hopefully better results. Looking forward to it
Good luck to you and your dad!
Much appreciated! Hopefully the next posts will have a better outcome :tup:
Post by: vandeman17 on September 05, 2019, 10:22:19 AM
Adam
we'll give you and your dad a group hug when you come back :chuckle: :tup:
season just startedI know the area your in....absolute masher bulls up there :yike: :chuckle:
I'd get back out there and have fun !!! Worst case you know where not to go next year, sounds like cool country
Good luck
Old man and I will be heading back down in a week and a half to a different unit. Same vacation time used and hopefully better results. Looking forward to it
Good luck to you and your dad!
Much appreciated! Hopefully the next posts will have a better outcome :tup:
You sir, have yourself a deal! :IBCOOL:
Post by: Gentrys on September 09, 2019, 09:01:43 PM
Post by: Elkcollector82 on September 27, 2019, 06:21:39 PM
That's a shame. It sounds like he didn't have current information to base the location on. Google Earth can show geography but not wildlife.
Not entirely true. 🤷♂️
Post by: vandeman17 on September 27, 2019, 07:36:05 PM
That's a shame. It sounds like he didn't have current information to base the location on. Google Earth can show geography but not wildlife.
Not entirely true. 🤷♂️
?
Post by: coachcw on October 10, 2019, 06:05:02 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on October 10, 2019, 06:27:39 PM
Was it moss springs outfitters or ottis wagner ?
No it wasn’t. We went in like 6 years ago with moss springs and had a great time. Wish we could get back into that same area.