Post by: Donaker on September 23, 2019, 09:33:40 PM
I was in an area where I knew there was only one camp in the vicinity (I spoke with them), but an outfitter transits through. I was hiking out, and came across a bear. It was clearly wounded as it was dragging its hind legs behind it and certainly not moving very quickly. It is safe to say it was mortally wounded, but would die from infection/starvation/etc. I heard the shot the previous morning. The bear was no more than 30 yards off the trail, and there was a trail junction within a few hundred yards - this is to say there was ample access to walk around/look for the animal. If whoever shot it searched for it/tried to recover it, it sure seems it was a very, very weak effort as the bear didn't have the benefit of hind legs.
I did not have a bear tag. This occurred approximately 8-9 miles into the wilderness. I spoke with the only camp in the vicinity, and they provided a credible story of where they were and that they did not shoot the bear.
Post by: Its_Raining_Brass on September 23, 2019, 09:37:13 PM
Post by: Bango skank on September 23, 2019, 09:40:28 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on September 23, 2019, 09:42:03 PM
But not much you could do. Since you had no bear tag.
Most would want to end the suffering but without the tag you shouldn’t.
Wild animals meet their fate every day in the wild. And most the time it is not very humane.
It’s easy to come to conclusions we think are right or accurate. But really if you did not witness a shooter making the shot it all conjecture.
The law says in theory if you render the killing shot than it becomes your responsibility and you would be in violation. Someone comes upon you at the time and in their eyes you killed the bear. No story is going to change that.
I don’t think calling anyone is going to do a thing. A wounded bear 9 miles in is too far for our game Dept.
Post by: Bushcraft on September 24, 2019, 07:41:31 AM
The ethical thing to do is to quickly and humanely put it out of it's misery. The only difference between you doing it then or wait for an "authority" with a badge is that the animal suffers longer. The end result is the same.
Let the other camp tag it if they want.
Post by: boneaddict on September 24, 2019, 07:52:08 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 24, 2019, 07:57:38 AM
This scenario is fundamentally no different than dispatching a gravely wounded animal on the side of the road that's been hit by a vehicle.Exactly my thoughts. Take care of it
The ethical thing to do is to quickly and humanely put it out of it's misery. The only difference between you doing it then or wait for an "authority" with a badge is that the animal suffers longer. The end result is the same.
Let the other camp tag it if they want.
Post by: h20hunter on September 24, 2019, 07:57:52 AM
Post by: Fishmaker57 on September 24, 2019, 08:03:19 AM
Id say put it out of its misery. Sometimes the right thing to do may not be the legal thing.
Agreed!! I have had to do this multiple times...usually associated with being hit by a vehicle, but also twice in the woods. If the animal can be salvaged, I would call it in.....if not, shoot and walk away.
Post by: Okanagan on September 24, 2019, 08:04:11 AM
Id say put it out of its misery. Sometimes the right thing to do may not be the legal thing.
^^This^^
I regret to this day that I did not put a deer out of its misery one time purely due to concern that some officious officer would discover it and cite me. It was a deer with a badly broken hind leg, a break high up in the ham, way back on a logging road, unlikely for anyone to know whether I did the right thing or not but I was wary due to bad experience with a couple of CO's.
Post by: Platensek-po on September 24, 2019, 08:05:28 AM
This scenario is fundamentally no different than dispatching a gravely wounded animal on the side of the road that's been hit by a vehicle.:yeah:
The ethical thing to do is to quickly and humanely put it out of it's misery. The only difference between you doing it then or wait for an "authority" with a badge is that the animal suffers longer. The end result is the same.
Let the other camp tag it if they want.
Post by: JakeLand on September 24, 2019, 12:15:31 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 24, 2019, 12:57:32 PM
Post by: npaull on September 24, 2019, 01:01:00 PM
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on September 24, 2019, 01:04:36 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on September 24, 2019, 01:16:21 PM
I'm not going to say shooting it would have been wrong though, whether you shoot and leave or pack it out. It's a tough call but I'd leave it be.
Post by: Stein on September 24, 2019, 01:18:46 PM
If you don't at least contact WDFW you run a big risk in my opinion. I'm sure every warden has heard the "I put it out of it's misery" story before and they would have no way of separating me from the other guys. Once you shoot it, you have hunted without a license. You then either leave it (waste of a game animal) or pack it out (possession of an illegally harvested animal). It may be remote that you are confronted, but those are some pretty serious infractions and potentially loss of your hunting privilege for a time.
It's a personal call for sure.
Post by: HikerHunter on September 24, 2019, 01:22:06 PM
Post by: Platensek-po on September 24, 2019, 01:40:38 PM
Post by: Bango skank on September 24, 2019, 01:43:45 PM
Post by: grundy53 on September 24, 2019, 01:49:37 PM
Id say put it out of its misery. Sometimes the right thing to do may not be the legal thing.Agreed
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Post by: CackleBird98 on September 24, 2019, 01:51:57 PM
Post by: ribka on September 24, 2019, 01:59:07 PM
Kind of wonder what the reaction from WDFW would be if you shot the bear and came down and called them right away explaining what happened. In that case though I wouldn’t harvest the bear and would let it lay so that the warden wouldn’t think you were trying to cover something up. I dunno tough call.i
Neighbor called me when he discovered a spike elk tangled up in his cattle fence. I went over to help release and it’s gut was open and broken rear leg. I called WDFW to come out and put down and was told to just leave it alone. Said can an officer just come out after witnessing the tangled up suffering elk and I just shoot it and put out of misery and donate meat to local shelter. Was advised would be charged if I did.
We did the right thing. WDFW will charge you too if you self report an honest mistake based on my experience observing good ethical
People trying to do the right thing.
That’s Washington, take the low hanging fruit and ignore the really Wildlife and fish problems.
Post by: h20hunter on September 24, 2019, 02:12:43 PM
Post by: Bob33 on September 24, 2019, 03:24:49 PM
Post by: Shoofly09 on September 24, 2019, 03:29:14 PM
I still regret not doing what I know would have been the right thing.
Post by: jeffro on September 24, 2019, 03:38:29 PM
In 15 years, It has resulted in 4 bears and 1 cat, that made themselves available.
And would allow for legally dispatching this wounded animal.
For an extra $11 it’s totally worth it and almost a no brainer
Post by: TriggerMike on September 24, 2019, 03:48:21 PM
Post by: Stein on September 24, 2019, 03:56:04 PM
I suspect there have been multiple “I had to shoot this deer because it was suffering” instances that were really poaching over the years. If I were nine miles in I’d probably dispatch the animal if it was certain it couldn’t survive.
That's the thing, WDFW can't tell you to do something illegal. They also can't change the law to allow for it otherwise there would be a dramatic rise in the number of mercy killings of animals for sure. It's just one of those unfortunate realities of life.
Post by: HikerHunter on September 25, 2019, 09:29:18 AM
That's the thing, WDFW can't tell you to do something illegal. They also can't change the law to allow for it otherwise there would be a dramatic rise in the number of mercy killings of animals for sure. It's just one of those unfortunate realities of life.:yeah:
It's a slippery slope if they start telling people its okay to break the law in certain situations. I don't think we want them to do that. Shady people would be all over that, taking advantage of it.
Post by: Bango skank on September 25, 2019, 09:35:20 AM
That's the thing, WDFW can't tell you to do something illegal. They also can't change the law to allow for it otherwise there would be a dramatic rise in the number of mercy killings of animals for sure. It's just one of those unfortunate realities of life.:yeah:
It's a slippery slope if they start telling people its okay to break the law in certain situations. I don't think we want them to do that. Shady people would be all over that, taking advantage of it.
Exactly, they cant tell you its okay. But i would guess they would really wish people would just do what needs to be done in these situations without calling, so they wouldnt have to say no.
Post by: Stein on September 25, 2019, 10:44:22 AM
Post by: LDennis24 on September 25, 2019, 11:28:26 AM
Most of us hunt because of our love for nature and animals. Ethically, there's no real choice in my mind. I'd have taken the shot, removed the bear or at least the meat, and called it in without having a tag. :dunno:
:yeah:
Post by: hunter399 on September 25, 2019, 11:39:31 AM
I would never call wdfw or take any meat or even walk over and look at it .Calling them after shooting it and harvesting it without a tag.Is asking for a ticket.Most of us hunt because of our love for nature and animals. Ethically, there's no real choice in my mind. I'd have taken the shot, removed the bear or at least the meat, and called it in without having a tag. :dunno:
:yeah:
I would of sent it, and walk away without a tag that's all you can do.And tell know one .
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 25, 2019, 11:43:01 AM
Post by: GHETTO GUIDE on September 25, 2019, 11:51:49 AM
proving it was wounded. Then put it down.
I think I could defend that in court? Or at least have a better case trying.
As far as the meat Its hard to call with out being in the situation.
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Post by: Bob33 on September 25, 2019, 12:15:55 PM
Post by: gutsnthegrass on September 25, 2019, 12:46:48 PM
Post by: yakimanoob on September 25, 2019, 12:48:26 PM
I don’t hunt for bears or cougars specifically, but I always buy and carry the tags..:yeah: :yeah:
In 15 years, It has resulted in 4 bears and 1 cat, that made themselves available.
And would allow for legally dispatching this wounded animal.
For an extra $11 it’s totally worth it and almost a no brainer
And +1 for carrying an inReach and trying to find someone with a tag who could do it legally. But if that fails, I would have dispatched it and not reported it. Every LEO with a brain knows putting that poor animal out of its misery is the right thing to do. But they also took an oath to enforce the law, and while certainly a reasonable law overall, in this specific case it's not in line with what's ethical.
Sorry to hear about the experience overall though. Watching a wounded animal suffer is awful.
Post by: HikerHunter on September 25, 2019, 12:58:45 PM
A quick video,
proving it was wounded. Then put it down.
I think I could defend that in court? Or at least have a better case trying.
As far as the meat Its hard to call with out being in the situation.
Sent from my SM-G935R4 using Tapatalk
I thought about this, but who is to say you didn't do the wounding shot?
Post by: npaull on September 25, 2019, 01:17:26 PM
Post by: yakimanoob on September 25, 2019, 01:23:34 PM
Laws are necessarily imperfect attempts to codify our ethics in a way that is broadly applicable. They cannot possibly capture every single scenario in which those ethics may need to be exercised. There are times when to act lawfully is to act unethically, and vice versa. Given that the laws stem from our ethics, and are meant to reinforce them, and NOT vice-versa, in a situation in which ethics clearly conflict with the law, I choose to act ethically.:salute:
Post by: Bango skank on September 25, 2019, 01:24:55 PM
Laws are necessarily imperfect attempts to codify our ethics in a way that is broadly applicable. They cannot possibly capture every single scenario in which those ethics may need to be exercised. There are times when to act lawfully is to act unethically, and vice versa. Given that the laws stem from our ethics, and are meant to reinforce them, and NOT vice-versa, in a situation in which ethics clearly conflict with the law, I choose to act ethically.
Very well said
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 25, 2019, 01:30:39 PM
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on September 25, 2019, 01:48:04 PM
Laws are necessarily imperfect attempts to codify our ethics in a way that is broadly applicable. They cannot possibly capture every single scenario in which those ethics may need to be exercised. There are times when to act lawfully is to act unethically, and vice versa. Given that the laws stem from our ethics, and are meant to reinforce them, and NOT vice-versa, in a situation in which ethics clearly conflict with the law, I choose to act ethically.
:yeah: Very, very well said!
Post by: LDennis24 on September 25, 2019, 02:21:40 PM
Post by: Stein on September 25, 2019, 04:13:59 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on September 25, 2019, 06:28:15 PM
I have personally been in this situation on more than one occasion with road hunters and private property. Twice we had to dispatch an animal because it was left to die and both times we salvaged the meat. The first time the warden took the entire animal and thanked us for not letting it go to waste. The second time he took the head and antlers and left us with the meat. :dunno: He appreciated the fact that we didn't just turn a blind eye and let it go to waste. Don't know why everyone thinks the wardens will instantly write a citation with out regards to the situation.
I tend to agree. I've hunted in this state since '92 or '93 and have never seen a WDFW enforcement officer in the field, but in the few instances where I've interacted with them when reporting/discussing problematic issues they have all been great guys to worth with. Sometimes you've just got to do the right thing and have faith in your fellow man. Keep in mind that most enforcement types are accustomed to dealing with the extreme *censored* bag dregs of society. It's refreshing for them when they encounter solid, above-board, law-abiding citizens.
Post by: KFhunter on September 25, 2019, 06:43:36 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 26, 2019, 07:03:11 AM
I don't think anyone assumed the warden would issue a citation, but it is certainly a possibility since a law would be broken if one shot an animal without a tag. You can always hope, but there are areas I wouldn't dare do it and other wardens I would be much more inclined. If you know the warden, have a good relationship and can document what happened that's one situation. Wardens, like other people, vary and I know one or two that would write the tickets without hesitation.
Several have stated this viewpoint in this very thread and others.
Post by: theleo on October 03, 2019, 10:48:49 AM
It's easy to come up with theories and judge others, but you weren't there for the shot or attempted recovery, so it's really best not to judge. You know of one camp in the area, you know an outfitter is through there, and you were ONLY 9 miles back. I know 9 miles in from a trail head seems like a lot when you're on foot, but that's just a day ride for guys like me that use mules and/or horses for hunting. No reason to think the camp you talked to had anyone lying about not shooting at the bear.
It's a sad thing to see wounded game and is a situation I have no problem with committing a game violation over.
Post by: woodswalker on October 03, 2019, 10:53:27 AM
Legal or not my conscience would dispatch and roll the dice with getting in trouble for doing the RIGHT thing
:yeah:
BTDT, worried until the carcass was bones that i would get nailed for doing the right thing...still did it.
Post by: ridgefire on October 06, 2019, 09:25:25 AM
Post by: Bango skank on October 06, 2019, 12:31:56 PM
I have personally been in this situation on more than one occasion with road hunters and private property. Twice we had to dispatch an animal because it was left to die and both times we salvaged the meat. The first time the warden took the entire animal and thanked us for not letting it go to waste. The second time he took the head and antlers and left us with the meat. :dunno: He appreciated the fact that we didn't just turn a blind eye and let it go to waste. Don't know why everyone thinks the wardens will instantly write a citation with out regards to the situation.
Its just indicative of the general poor relationship wdfw has with hunters. Theresnot a lot of trust there.
Post by: fireweed on October 06, 2019, 12:50:26 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on October 06, 2019, 12:51:05 PM
It's kind of a moot point because I'd never go into the woods without bear and cougar tags.
And if it was out of season?
Post by: Pegasus on October 06, 2019, 01:11:03 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 06, 2019, 01:41:11 PM
Personally speaking, if I were acting outside of or on edge of legal behavior to do something I considered ethical and necessary I would practice SSS.
^^^^^
If it was me, this thread wouldn’t exist.
Actually I always have a bear tag even if I’m not ever going bear hunting.