Post by: TommyH on October 15, 2019, 10:47:32 AM
On top of all this I had to be towed home by a Chevy!!!!!!! :bash: :chuckle: :bash:
Post by: jeffitz on October 15, 2019, 11:00:52 AM
Post by: TommyH on October 15, 2019, 11:04:43 AM
Check the fuse for the fuel bowl heater - ECM/PCM is on same circuit -fuel bowl heater corrodes and shorts out so if thats it then just unplug it and replace fuse
Fuel bowl plug is/has been unplugged for a couple years.
Post by: huntnphool on October 15, 2019, 11:23:31 AM
It’s inside the drivers front wheel well, I’d be starting there. :twocents:
Post by: RockChuck on October 15, 2019, 11:29:36 AM
Post by: TommyH on October 15, 2019, 11:36:41 AM
Died while driving, BCM.
It’s inside the drivers front wheel well, I’d be starting there. :twocents:
BCM? Or IDM? It rained earlier that day also...
Died like you shut the key off or sputtered ran rough and died? Check your valve cover gasket wire harness/plugs. Injector wiring runs through there and they like to melt at the plug
No sputtering or nothing, just was driving along and then had no throttle.. pushed the clutch in and lost power steering and brakes.. put it back into 6th and let the clutch out and had power steering and brakes again as motor was turning.
Post by: jeffitz on October 15, 2019, 11:40:44 AM
Post by: huntnphool on October 15, 2019, 11:46:19 AM
Died while driving, BCM.
It’s inside the drivers front wheel well, I’d be starting there. :twocents:
BCM? Or IDM? It rained earlier that day also...Died like you shut the key off or sputtered ran rough and died? Check your valve cover gasket wire harness/plugs. Injector wiring runs through there and they like to melt at the plug
No sputtering or nothing, just was driving along and then had no throttle.. pushed the clutch in and lost power steering and brakes.. put it back into 6th and let the clutch out and had power steering and brakes again as motor was turning.
Sorry, IDM in the wheel well. They are sealed so I seriously doubt it was rain related. Mine did the same thing once, driving down the highway and it just died, no hiccup or warning of any kind, just died.
I’ve had the injector harness issue before as well, I’ve never heard of both harnesses going back at the same time, it’s typically one side or the other, which will still allow half the engine to run, so I doubt it’s the harness.
Even a fuel issue likely would have given you some sort of warning, a hiccup or surge right before going out.
My bet is the module, let us know what you find.
Post by: RockChuck on October 15, 2019, 11:54:16 AM
Is it chipped?
Post by: Griiz on October 15, 2019, 12:04:45 PM
Post by: TommyH on October 15, 2019, 12:09:23 PM
Ok then its beyond me - the only time mine has died in 20years / 350,000 miles it was the fuel bowl heater shorted and blew that fuse
Ya before this happened, the only time mine had died was when the fuel bowl shorted and blew the fuse..
Also I have been stalling on replacing my glow plugs, on cold mornings it takes a few cycles to fire up but always has... usually have a SES light turn on following cold/hard start that will eventually turn off after I drive 5-10 minutes.... gutless while the light is on but as soon as it turns off you can feel full power come back. I was hoping the SES light and lack of power were due to glow plugs being bad, but not sure a bad glow plug or 2 would throw the SES light...? Also didn’t think my glow plug issues would effect the truck for 10-15 minutes after it was running.. so that had me thinking possible bad injector or O-ring...? I think these are unrelated to my no start/no smoke out the pipe issues but not 100% sure especially if it’s an injector....???
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 15, 2019, 12:11:23 PM
Post by: TommyH on October 15, 2019, 12:14:29 PM
Have you checked the camshaft position sensor? I keep one in my glove box as they are known to fail.
Yes I started with replacing that first as it was the cheapest and known to fail. But (I knew better) I didn’t buy the OEM and picked up one from autozone...
Post by: huntnphool on October 15, 2019, 12:23:24 PM
Ok then its beyond me - the only time mine has died in 20years / 350,000 miles it was the fuel bowl heater shorted and blew that fuse
Ya before this happened, the only time mine had died was when the fuel bowl shorted and blew the fuse..
Also I have been stalling on replacing my glow plugs, on cold mornings it takes a few cycles to fire up but always has... usually have a SES light turn on following cold/hard start that will eventually turn off after I drive 5-10 minutes.... gutless while the light is on but as soon as it turns off you can feel full power come back. I was hoping the SES light and lack of power were due to glow plugs being bad, but not sure a bad glow plug or 2 would throw the SES light...? Also didn’t think my glow plug issues would effect the truck for 10-15 minutes after it was running.. so that had me thinking possible bad injector or O-ring...? I think these are unrelated to my no start/no smoke out the pipe issues but not 100% sure especially if it’s an injector....???
How many miles? It’s likely injector time. ;)
Does it fire right up if plugged in at night?
Post by: TommyH on October 15, 2019, 12:27:03 PM
Ok then its beyond me - the only time mine has died in 20years / 350,000 miles it was the fuel bowl heater shorted and blew that fuse
Ya before this happened, the only time mine had died was when the fuel bowl shorted and blew the fuse..
Also I have been stalling on replacing my glow plugs, on cold mornings it takes a few cycles to fire up but always has... usually have a SES light turn on following cold/hard start that will eventually turn off after I drive 5-10 minutes.... gutless while the light is on but as soon as it turns off you can feel full power come back. I was hoping the SES light and lack of power were due to glow plugs being bad, but not sure a bad glow plug or 2 would throw the SES light...? Also didn’t think my glow plug issues would effect the truck for 10-15 minutes after it was running.. so that had me thinking possible bad injector or O-ring...? I think these are unrelated to my no start/no smoke out the pipe issues but not 100% sure especially if it’s an injector....???
How many miles? It’s likely injector time. ;)
Does it fire right up if plugged in at night?
Yes if plugged in it fires up great. Well it did before this...
Post by: huntnphool on October 15, 2019, 12:28:45 PM
Ok then its beyond me - the only time mine has died in 20years / 350,000 miles it was the fuel bowl heater shorted and blew that fuse
Ya before this happened, the only time mine had died was when the fuel bowl shorted and blew the fuse..
Also I have been stalling on replacing my glow plugs, on cold mornings it takes a few cycles to fire up but always has... usually have a SES light turn on following cold/hard start that will eventually turn off after I drive 5-10 minutes.... gutless while the light is on but as soon as it turns off you can feel full power come back. I was hoping the SES light and lack of power were due to glow plugs being bad, but not sure a bad glow plug or 2 would throw the SES light...? Also didn’t think my glow plug issues would effect the truck for 10-15 minutes after it was running.. so that had me thinking possible bad injector or O-ring...? I think these are unrelated to my no start/no smoke out the pipe issues but not 100% sure especially if it’s an injector....???
How many miles? It’s likely injector time. ;)
Does it fire right up if plugged in at night?
Yes if plugged in it fires up great. Well it did before this...
If the injectors have not been replaced it sounds time. :twocents:
Post by: TommyH on October 15, 2019, 12:35:04 PM
Ah yes true on the harness, mine would run but only one side
Is it chipped?
Not chipped... yet. Plan to tho.
Post by: RockChuck on October 15, 2019, 12:41:41 PM
Maybe I missed the year but this site seems to have a lot of good info
Post by: TommyH on October 15, 2019, 01:11:16 PM
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum170/
Maybe I missed the year but this site seems to have a lot of good info
It’s a 99.
Thanks everyone for the replies, I’d really like to get this back on the road! It’s hunting season!
Post by: spoonman on October 15, 2019, 01:41:49 PM
Have you checked the camshaft position sensor? I keep one in my glove box as they are known to fail.
👆
Post by: TommyH on October 15, 2019, 01:46:06 PM
Have you checked the camshaft position sensor? I keep one in my glove box as they are known to fail.
Yes I started with replacing that first as it was the cheapest and known to fail. But (I knew better) I didn’t buy the OEM and picked up one from autozone...
Yes that was my first purchase.
Post by: huntnphool on October 15, 2019, 02:31:09 PM
220k. When I bought it @ 195k the guy had said the injectors had been tested and new orings.. but no paperwork to confirm that.Ah yes true on the harness, mine would run but only one side
Is it chipped?
Not chipped... yet. Plan to tho.
Tested is not the same as replaced. My money is on your injectors as to why it’s difficult to start when cold. ;)
Post by: jeffitz on October 15, 2019, 02:58:09 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 15, 2019, 03:06:54 PM
Post by: longshaft on October 15, 2019, 03:13:32 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 15, 2019, 03:16:11 PM
Crankshaft position sensor it will shut your truck off like you turn the key off I have been through this twice
He's already replaced it.
Also there are multiple potential causes for this. You could diagnose the problem and replace the failed part or you could throw parts at it till you fix it.
Profile says eastside. If that's east side of the mountains, I can't help. If that's eastside like Bellevue Redmond etc I can probably help. Shoot me a message.
Post by: RockChuck on October 15, 2019, 03:20:24 PM
Post by: jackson7 on October 15, 2019, 03:24:22 PM
Had a similar issue with shutting off and glow plugs. Also my mileage dipped.
Replaced the cam position sensor with a non OEM. It helped but would still happen once in a while. Always wondered if it were to happen at high speed. Once shut down as i am crossing a creek bed on a wooden bridge. Scared the heck out of me as, it was all ice. I got lucky.
Replaced with an OEM sensor and no problems since. Good luck.Let us know how it turns out.
Post by: jackelope on October 15, 2019, 04:38:34 PM
I think he said NE wa earlier
Ya...just have to slow down and read. Thanks.
Post by: slowhand on October 15, 2019, 06:07:03 PM
Post by: TommyH on October 15, 2019, 07:45:54 PM
Put 5 gallons of diesel in each tank. Very possible your out of fuel or the tank didn’t switch. Cheap and very very possible
Only one tank, no switch.. and it’s got fuel, 15 gallons in the tank and the fuel bowl was full. It full of oil and the hpop is as well. No smoke out the exhaust at all so it’s not “working” the injectors for one reason or another... new cps, new ipr valve, unplugged the icp sensor which is supposed to reset it to a factory setting allowing it to run when unplugged.
So as far as *I know* or suggested by others, the remaining possibilities (that I think could be likely) is the - 1. IDM, 2. high pressure oil pump (hpop), 3. injectors.. (thought I watched a YouTube video saying a bad o-ring prevented enough pressure from building for injectors to work???. 4. CPS, I bought one from autozone it may be junk but I got rpms on the tach when cranking (indicates cps is working) and rpms 200ish on digital AICM http://dieselinnovations.com/techfiles/aic_manual1.pdf
5...? I don’t know let me know if I’m over looking something.
I know the UVCH is a known problem but I don’t think both failed at the same time, if one was bad I think it would still fire the injectors on the good bank..? And would run and still make smoke out the exhaust..
The icp I didn’t inspect for oil on the plug very well (indicating it’s leaking and bad) but unplugging it is supposed to allow it to run.
My diagnosis abilities are run out now lol hopefully someone can chime in with some insight. I am hoping I don’t have to have it towed to a the shop but may have to... Thanks all to replied. I appreciate it. Keep em coming.
Post by: RockChuck on October 15, 2019, 08:53:10 PM
Post by: RockChuck on October 15, 2019, 09:03:21 PM
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1599601-96-7-3l-crank-but-no-start.html
It has clickable links on test procedures also
Post by: TommyH on October 20, 2019, 05:43:11 PM
Codes we got were - * P1316 IDM codes detected. * PO340 cam position sensor circuit fault. Buzz test codes were, *P1277, *P1293 high side open (right) *P1294 high side open (left). Still uncertain which part(s) are the culprit... I’m still leaning twords the IDM...? Any more input from anyone more knowledgeable than myself??????
Post by: Stump on October 20, 2019, 06:58:58 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 20, 2019, 08:51:11 PM
Sure sounds like the cam sensor, I also keep a spair in the glove box with a 10 mm wrench.
He’s getting RPM’s when cranking so that indicates the CPS is working.
Post by: huntnphool on October 20, 2019, 09:47:05 PM
Sure sounds like the cam sensor, I also keep a spair in the glove box with a 10 mm wrench.
He’s getting RPM’s when cranking so that indicates the CPS is working.
:yeah:
Clearly has injector issues as well, but those won’t cause it to die without warning.
Injectors, new harnesses and gaskets will likely clear most of those codes, but still have to figure out why it died and won’t start.
Post by: TommyH on October 20, 2019, 10:31:36 PM
Sure sounds like the cam sensor, I also keep a spair in the glove box with a 10 mm wrench.
He’s getting RPM’s when cranking so that indicates the CPS is working.
:yeah:
Clearly has injector issues as well, but those won’t cause it to die without warning.
Injectors, new harnesses and gaskets will likely clear most of those codes, but still have to figure out why it died and won’t start.
Yes, new gaskets/harnesses, glow plugs are on the “to do” list. Injector(s) work or replacement more than likely added to that list... not sure if it is, or is not the cause of the no start issues.?? I’m going to try my IDM on another running 99 and try to rule it out...thanks @huntnfool @jackelope and others.
Post by: jackson7 on October 20, 2019, 11:08:22 PM
Changed to oem sensor and no issues since . This was last year. Starts now when temp dips into the 20's and no more turning off. Mine is a 2000 f250.
Also had my mileage drop from 16.4 to 16.0mpg. Haven't had it on road much to check mileage as only use during hunting season w camper. Will let you know after a few trips.
Good luck.
Post by: stw on October 21, 2019, 05:01:44 AM
Post by: RockChuck on October 21, 2019, 05:56:42 AM
Post by: MR5x5 on October 21, 2019, 03:24:32 PM
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum31/
Post by: Mudman on October 21, 2019, 03:56:33 PM
Post by: TommyH on October 21, 2019, 04:58:05 PM
Post by: 95powersmoker on October 22, 2019, 08:51:15 AM
I looked again at the pics I took of the scan tool, I also had a P1280 code. ICP circut our of range low.
Wouldn't focus on that. Likely got that code when you tried running it without the ICP sensor plugged in. I would have cleared the codes and then tried to start it again and checked once more for codes. Also, would be ideal if you could get ICP psi # and IPR duty cycle %. Need to know if you are getting enough high pressure oil to fire injectors.
Post by: dyhardhuntr on October 22, 2019, 09:07:08 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: TommyH on October 22, 2019, 07:23:15 PM
Post by: TommyH on October 22, 2019, 08:15:15 PM
We did clear them and ran again, I think that’s why I missed this code from pics because i think it was gone after the second go around. :tup:I looked again at the pics I took of the scan tool, I also had a P1280 code. ICP circut our of range low.
Wouldn't focus on that. Likely got that code when you tried running it without the ICP sensor plugged in. I would have cleared the codes and then tried to start it again and checked once more for codes. Also, would be ideal if you could get ICP psi # and IPR duty cycle %. Need to know if you are getting enough high pressure oil to fire injectors.
Post by: dyhardhuntr on October 22, 2019, 08:31:44 PM
Post by: TommyH on October 22, 2019, 08:49:52 PM
You need to check ipr percentage and see if the icp sensor is reading any psi. If your ipr percentage goes way up ( such as 80% or higher) then you have an internal leak somewhere. Normal % is around 25-35 to start up. Also you are looking at more than 500 psi from your icp for start up. On the scanner you should see desired and actual. If those are both good I would lean towards an ecm. All of your injectors don’t just fail. I’ve seen bad fuel go thru injectors multiple times. I’ve had this same thing happen with a bad ipr valve. That is what helps build psi in the hpop system. Don’t just throw parts at it. It gets expensive real quick. Especially with a diesel. Try not to crank the engine more than 30 seconds at a time with a few minute cool down. You’ll be putting a starter in it.
Ecm = IDM ?
:tup: ICP pressure @2554 indicates hpop is fine correct...? IPR % at 39 while cranking, so assuming it’s ok, (and *new* but Napa parts, CPS was autozone,) I’m left thinking my ipr (new) is working, cps is new (autozone) hpop is making pressure according it icp....? I’m leaning to IDM failure.?
Uvch/gaskets would only be one bank or another, I’d have smoke out the tailpipe, and injectors injecting on one bank. Not a die while driving, not a no smoke out the pipe, and most likely would run, even on four injectors working.
???
Post by: dyhardhuntr on October 22, 2019, 08:55:29 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 22, 2019, 09:07:03 PM
ECM is really a PCM with Ford. Powertrain control module.
Post by: TommyH on October 22, 2019, 09:48:43 PM
You said it happend after driving around in the rain? The idm on your superduty is behind the fender I believe so it is very possible it got wet (sure it’s sealed good but seals can go bad) and went bad. Hope you get it working soon.
I’m leaning to this being the case.. but I’ve been wrong before, I’ll try swapping another IDM, I’ve read any 99-02(03)? iDM will work. Is that “will work” and allow it to run but not run right compared to if equipped with the correct IDM??? I’ll be Trying a 01 IDM in a 99.
Post by: TommyH on October 22, 2019, 09:59:52 PM
Your ipr is fine but if the icp goes straight to 2554 while cranking that does not seem right. It should be around 725. 2550 should be the max if that pump was dead headed. If there is no smoke from the exhaust then there is no fuel being injected into the cylinder. You can try swapping your buddies IDM. Try swapping the icp also. See what happens.
Thanks, this maybe something I need to look into more. I thought I had read the psi will continue to increase as it turns over...? At the start of the video I took of the scan tool ICP psi was at 2500 ish.. it could have been a few seconds into cranking.? Any ideas of why a high psi while cranking would occur?
Post by: TommyH on October 22, 2019, 10:10:36 PM
Post by: huntnphool on October 23, 2019, 01:02:42 AM
Post by: dyhardhuntr on October 23, 2019, 07:28:47 AM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 23, 2019, 08:04:46 AM
Post by: TommyH on November 02, 2019, 09:02:11 AM
before I plugged the new IDM in I did this recommended test. https://system.na1.netsuite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=609394&c=744110&h=a78527245dc5a18cb805&_xt=.pdf
On test one (from link) Ohms were supposed to read between 2.8 and 3.6, test 1 procedure 1-4 tests drivers side bank, 5-8 tests passenger side. These were read from the IDM plug.
Here’s the ohm readings I got from drivers side bank.
On Pins 23 and 22 = 4
Pins 23 and 7 =7.8
Pins 23 and 19 =7.1
Pins 23 and 9 =4.2
Passenger side were all between 3.2 and 3.5.
The high readings (drivers side) of 7.8 and 7.1 were from injectors 4 and 6. Anybody have more insight on what these higher resistance readings indicate? Possible injector solenoids..?
From the link-
INJECTOR RESISTANCE + WIRING TESTFaulty electrical wiring between the injectors and IDM can be an issue with the Ford 7.3L Power Stroke engine. To determine whether the wiring between the injectors and IDM is within specifcation and that there are no open or short circiuts, measure the resistance (ohms) of the complete power output and ground cir-cuit. Measuring the resistance will also determine whether you have defective injector solenoid(s). You can see where the wiring is connected into both styles of wiring harnesses (model years 1994 - 1998 and model years 1999 - 2003) below.