Post by: Dadofive on October 16, 2019, 11:37:48 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 16, 2019, 11:46:38 AM
Post by: Bushcraft on October 16, 2019, 11:53:19 AM
That said, and I'll probably catch some flak for this...and please don't take offense to this, but you were comparing a Vortex to a Vortex. The very best way to discern the difference in the quality of optical resolution is to set them up side-by-side on rock solid mounts and use them at all hours of the day in different lighting conditions. The other aspects are ergonomics and how well the guts will hold up over time. That's where they are going to fail. Still another comes down to how good your eyes are compared to someone with absolutely perfect vision.
And yes, some people live behind their bino's all day. :hello:
Post by: Dadofive on October 16, 2019, 12:18:00 PM
Post by: Moe the Sleaze on October 16, 2019, 01:04:55 PM
Post by: Tinmaniac on October 16, 2019, 01:13:47 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 16, 2019, 01:14:15 PM
I understand I was comparing vortex to vortex but that was what was in the field at that time. I've looked at Swarovski in the store but fluorescent lighting is not the best comparison. I also understand that people live behind glass and understand that people can spend their money how they like. For me, I'm just not sold on high end high dollar optics. Sure they might be better but $1000 better? I haven't seen it 😊
If you're not glassing a lot, you probably needn't spend a month's pay on glass. My Talon HDs do perform well in low-light conditions and, I think, they allow you to see critters better than non-HD glass in low light. Also, if you're hunting the thick stuff on the wet side, glassing isn't always a thing. But if you are spending more than 5 or 10 minutes at a time looking through bino's or a spotting scope, the better glass will make a marked difference.
Post by: huntnphool on October 16, 2019, 01:15:42 PM
If you are spotting all day, maybe but who spots all day with 10x?
:hello:
Post by: rainshadow1 on October 16, 2019, 01:42:00 PM
I've downgraded my purchases as I've upgraded the family... switched from a Leupold loyal, to the best buy for quality I could find.
I seem to have gravitated towards and have been very happy with Nikon. (But I do tend to go Monarch with my stuff and ProStaff with my kids' stuff!)
Honestly, ProStaff is solid quality stuff. Brighter than buckmaster or lots of other $150 scopes and $200 binos. Monarch is more vivid, and a tiny bit brighter, but the difference is negligible. (At least that's what I tell my kids!)
I still have lots of Leupys, a few Vortex, Burris, etc... and I'll buy a bargain on top quality any day. But I think the competition in optics has been wonderful for us <$400 guys!
Expensive glass is amazing.... but is it "worth" it? We have lots to spend money on. For me, now... no.
Post by: Bob33 on October 16, 2019, 01:45:13 PM
The differences between $200-$500 binoculars and $2000 binoculars are usually quite small and subtle, and without a doubt a $500 binocular is far better than no binocular. If you can’t afford or justify spending a couple thousand dollars on binoculars that’s a perfectly acceptable decision.
I also believe your eyes are usually the best decision maker for what is best for you. I have a hunting partner who hunts with $200 binos, sees about as many animals as I do, and swears he likes them better that Swarovskis.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on October 16, 2019, 01:50:06 PM
Post by: kselkhunter on October 16, 2019, 02:01:44 PM
That said: if I ever draw that elusive bighorn sheep or mountain goat tag....I'll be inviting friends along that have a Swarovski spotting scope....as my aging eyes would much rather spend all day looking through one of those with that tag on the line. :-)
Post by: Hoythunter on October 16, 2019, 02:10:08 PM
Post by: BeerBugler on October 16, 2019, 03:10:06 PM
Post by: lewy on October 16, 2019, 03:15:20 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 16, 2019, 03:16:07 PM
My Vortex 15's have a sort of noticeable, faint out of focus ring around the outer perimeter of the field of view. It's a lower quality optic thing and I'm aware of it, but it doesn't bother me. I just move the bino's a little if I need to be totally focused. I can see @Bushcraft cringing and grinding his teeth as he reads this :chuckle:
I bought the Vortex Vulture 15's after reading Robby Denning's great review of them on the Rokslide website. He focused on bang for the buck, and that's where I'm at. I have a pair of Maven C1's for the same reason. Ryan gave those bino's a really nice review there as well.
Post by: robodad on October 16, 2019, 03:30:38 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on October 16, 2019, 03:36:23 PM
Right out of the box I adjusted them to my eyes and set the diopter focus, left eye/right eye. The sweet thing about swaro's is once it is set you lock it and it won't come out of adjustment. Big plus.
They felt great in my hands compared to the Euros.
Then I started glassing out my back door with both of them. First glance, no big difference. Maybe a little clearer all the way to the edges of the swaro's but I wasn't impressed. Waited an hour and checked again. Maybe a little more difference. Another hour and the gap was starting to widen. 20 minutes after sun set and the difference was pretty clear. The swaros were much brighter and clearer.
Two weeks ago was my first hunt with the swaros. They performed well and I noticed less eye strain with extended periods of glassing. I used them again last weekend and I am really starting to like them. I think over the next 10-15 years I will continue to appreciate them more and be happy that I made the investment.
Post by: jackelope on October 16, 2019, 04:15:20 PM
They performed well and I noticed less eye strain with extended periods of glassing.
You can't sit still for more than 11 minutes at a time.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on October 16, 2019, 04:17:55 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 16, 2019, 04:43:23 PM
We all have our budgets - I just bought a slik III tripod when I really wanted and Outdoorsman compact but $79 vs $500+ :yike: Of course now Im running a $2k spotter on a $79 tripod which is not so smart either. heh
My ratio is a little better. $900 spotter on a $100 tripod :chuckle:
I'll probably have a hard time ever spending $2000+ on any hunting optics. Different strokes for different folks.
Post by: jrebel on October 16, 2019, 05:02:18 PM
Post by: jrebel on October 16, 2019, 05:47:04 PM
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/spo/d/seattle-swarovski-binoculars-habicht/6998403869.html
Make a reasonable offer or trade offer and see where it goes. Someone may get a nice pair for 600-650????
Post by: Tinmaniac on October 16, 2019, 06:10:27 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on October 16, 2019, 06:24:57 PM
I'm TOTALLY sure there's a notable difference in optical quality between alpha glass and the Vortex(for example) that I use. I just use pretty good stuff. Not the best, good enough for me. I think it comes down to how OCD are you :chuckle: .
My Vortex 15's have a sort of noticeable, faint out of focus ring around the outer perimeter of the field of view. It's a lower quality optic thing and I'm aware of it, but it doesn't bother me. I just move the bino's a little if I need to be totally focused. I can see @Bushcraft cringing and grinding his teeth as he reads this :chuckle:
I bought the Vortex Vulture 15's after reading Robby Denning's great review of them on the Rokslide website. He focused on bang for the buck, and that's where I'm at. I have a pair of Maven C1's for the same reason. Ryan gave those bino's a really nice review there as well.
Haha!
Post by: Bushcraft on October 16, 2019, 06:34:40 PM
There is a world of difference between hunting Blacktails in the jungles of the Olympic Peninsula and trying to find and age a Stone sheep in vast expanses of norther B.C.
You don't need much in the former, but you darn well better show up with top of the line optics in the latter.
Heck, it turns out quality glass matters a lot when you're trying to make sure a sheep is legal in the Yakima Canyon as the light is fading. ;)
Post by: jackelope on October 16, 2019, 06:46:07 PM
Heck, it turns out quality glass matters a lot when you're trying to make sure a sheep is legal in the Yakima Canyon as the light is fading. ;)
You should post some pics. I think you maximized your opportunity there.
Post by: Camo on October 16, 2019, 08:35:03 PM
Please understand this is subjective to my eyes which have noticeably degraded the last few years. Knowing that, I felt like "my eyes" probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference anymore between 'Alpha" glass and some of the really good mid range products currently available. I took the opportunity to reach out to Cody at GoHunt and he said a couple of things that were of interest. Maybe he is a good enough salesman that, like a fortune teller (no disrespect) can take enough hints from a conversation to develop a general outline and direct a pitch? Regardless, he said two things that resonated with me. First was the older we get as our eyes degrade is when the optical qualities actually begin to make a bigger difference. In full disclosure, I'm sure he is not an Optometrist, and I definitely am not. Secondly, was that at 200 yards the differences between glass goes mostly undetectable. At distance is where it becomes significantly noticeable, and the further out the more noticeable it becomes. This was my experience.
My take-away is that the glass required is based more on the specific type of hunting you are trying to do. At 1000 yards a lot of glass will show you points on an elk. You will also see the mule deer but probably not that third point? I am personally looking for something I can spot tines on a Coues at 1000 yards in the brush. Which is why I just sold the Kaibabs that I bought three months ago, and will have my 2 month old Meoptas for sale as soon as my dads hunt is over, in the hopes that the SLC's are what I am looking for. I hope this helps someone with their future decision. This was information that was important to me that I struggled to find other than the typical "buy once, cry once cliché".
Post by: HntnFsh on October 16, 2019, 08:35:58 PM
What ever happened to Zen-Ray ? I thought those were damn good binos and still very reasonable !!
They were a great deal for good glass. Unfortunately they went out of business. That's why when I was recently looking at binos I avoided Maven, Tract, and a few others. Great glass with no track record.
Post by: Rainier10 on October 16, 2019, 09:52:29 PM
:chuckle: That’s so true but at the ten minute mark there is no eye strain.They performed well and I noticed less eye strain with extended periods of glassing.
You can't sit still for more than 11 minutes at a time.
Post by: wags on October 17, 2019, 10:11:21 PM
The vortex customer service post got me thinking about my recent experience during this hunt season. I have a pair of diamondback 10x42 binos and had an opportunity to use a $1500 set of vortex on this hunt. There was so little variation between the two. They were both used at all hours and all light conditions and I am just not convinced about buying high dollar binos. If you are spotting all day, maybe but who spots all day with 10x?Me. I just spent ten days glassing ALL day for ten straight days using a pair of 10x Zeiss classics. There are a couple of good reasons for high end binos other than sight clarity, the main one being eye fatigue (that will be followed by bad headaches). I've had hunters (clients) who have attempted to use relatively good mid-range binos like Nikons while glassing all day; many times they end up with headaches in the evening. I actually would recommend Nikons, but not for use hours on end.
Post by: jeffro on October 17, 2019, 10:40:34 PM
Mainly for their customer service, and being somewhat local.
All equipment purchased used at a reasonable price, binos, spotter, range finder, scopes
I have only had to send one scope in for service, and had to order turrets on another.
Service and communication was spectacular on both instances.
I do have two rifles with Nikons mounted atop.
A .308 Remington with the Prostaff BDC reticle, this thing is spot on to 500yds
And a rifled slug shotgun with a Slugmaster BDC, hits 8” plates at 225 all day
Very impressed with these, especially at the price point.
Post by: boneaddict on October 18, 2019, 06:09:55 AM
Post by: medic090 on October 28, 2019, 08:41:26 PM
Post by: Windwalker on October 31, 2019, 09:12:38 PM
Check Black Friday sales etc, and reconditioned optics are another source for lower prices. https://aaoptics.com/
I've found that most sites give deep discounts (sometimes around 40%) using LE/MIL/First Responder credentials.
I won't disclose which outfit, but for example a scope that retails for $2,599.99 is $1,429.99. Or instead of $714.99 a more palatable $393.24.
A $400 scope AFTER the discount is a good quality scope.
Optics is one of the few items where the price usually reflects higher quality.
And don't be afraid to ask for clearance models. I've gotten some real eye opener discounts by just asking.
Post by: Rainier10 on November 12, 2019, 11:43:06 AM
I just upgraded this month from Cabela's Euro 10x42's to Swaro EL 10x42's. I had paid $700 for the Euros 8 years ago in the cabela's bargain cave and $2,700 for the swaros. I did get 10% of the swaros and had a bunch of cabelas points on my credit card so out of pocket they were $1,750.
Right out of the box I adjusted them to my eyes and set the diopter focus, left eye/right eye. The sweet thing about swaro's is once it is set you lock it and it won't come out of adjustment. Big plus.
They felt great in my hands compared to the Euros.
Then I started glassing out my back door with both of them. First glance, no big difference. Maybe a little clearer all the way to the edges of the swaro's but I wasn't impressed. Waited an hour and checked again. Maybe a little more difference. Another hour and the gap was starting to widen. 20 minutes after sun set and the difference was pretty clear. The swaros were much brighter and clearer.
Two weeks ago was my first hunt with the swaros. They performed well and I noticed less eye strain with extended periods of glassing. I used them again last weekend and I am really starting to like them. I think over the next 10-15 years I will continue to appreciate them more and be happy that I made the investment.
Update one month and a few hunts in. I am really starting to like the Swaro EL's. I love the locking diopter adjustment wheel. I haven't had to adjust it because it can't get bumped out of focus. Every time I pull them up they are crystal clear after I adjust the main focus wheel to the distance I am viewing.
Low light they are absolutely amazing. The sharpness and clarity is crazy. You can really get a good look at antlers and every little detail.
Crazy expensive but I think they are worth the money.
I would highly suggest picking a set up either new or off of the classifieds here at the end of the season as they come available.
Post by: bobcat on November 12, 2019, 12:18:32 PM
I always thought really decent binoculars could be had for around $400, and the really nice, premium binoculars a little over $1000. Wow. I'm using Bushnell's right now, along with a $100 Kowa 6x30 when I don't need more magnification.
Think I'll stick with what I've got for now. Just keeping gas in the truck is expensive enough.
Post by: KFhunter on November 12, 2019, 12:44:39 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 12, 2019, 12:57:09 PM