Hunting Washington Forum
Equipment & Gear => All Other Gear => Topic started by: trophyhunt on October 13, 2019, 09:01:00 AM
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From what I’ve researched you should get one with at least 750 watts, the 1000 watt is best. The ones with 500 watt are tempting because the price difference, a guy in SeaTac sells brand new ones for around 1,200$.
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don't get 1000w, stick with 750w to stay compliant with the new rules.
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don't get 1000w, stick with 750w to stay compliant with the new rules.
what are the new rules???
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don't get 1000w, stick with 750w to stay compliant with the new rules.
what are the new rules???
http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2017-18/Pdf/Bills/Senate%20Passed%20Legislature/6434-S.PL.pdf#page=1
limits them to 750w (original bill was 1000w, but they scratched that out and made it 750w then passed it) basically mirrors federal rules on ebike usage. Pretty much everyone/everywhere across multiple states has landed on 750w as being the maximum (750w = 1hp)
Federal parks:
https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/sites/default/files/attachments/so_3376_-_increasing_recreational_opportunities_through_the_use_of_electric_bikes_-508_0.pdf
While e-bikes are operable in the same manner as other types of bicycles and in many cases they appear virtually indistinguishable from other types of bicycles, the addition of a small motor has caused regulatory uncertainty regarding whether e-bikes should be treated in the same manner as other types of bicycles or, alternatively, considered to be motor vehicles. This uncertainty must be clarified. To resolve this uncertainty the Consumer Product Safety Act (Act) provides useful guidance. That Act defines a "low-speed electric bicycle" to include a "two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor ofless than 750 watts (1 h.p,), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph", subjecting these low-speed e-bikes to the same consumer product regulations as other types of bicycles (15 U.S.C. § 2085). A majority of States have essentially followed this definition in some form
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I think bigger guys should have more watts :chuckle:
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Interesting, thanks for the info. 750 is good. 1000 is better
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I think bigger guys should have more watts :chuckle:
Should us 200+ guys cry about inequality to get it overturned? It's not my fault I was made to be over 170 :chuckle:
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Well, 1 hp is about 746 Watts, so you get a few extra there.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Well, 1 hp is about 746 Watts, so you get a few extra there.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
those extra few watts are sucked up by drive train inefficiencies, higher end bikes have 98.5% efficiency +/- so it would take ~757.36 watts to actually get 1hp to the ground.
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Had a couple of them come up behind me (about 1.5 miles in, half hour before light) opening morning, zoomed by me and right on up the long hill. Looked pretty effortless...
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If you already have a mountain bike, Amazon sells a plethora of conversion kits to make it an ebike. Either a powered wheel, or crank replacement. Less expensive than buying a complete ebike. The hub/wheel motors are the easiest to install, but the crank drives are more efficient and would be my choice. Also some complete mountain ebikes on there.
I haven't done the conversion yet as none of the locations that I would want to take it allow it.
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MIGht go this route, way cheaper than a new bike! Thanks for the tip. https://www.amazon.com/BAFANG-BBS02B-Electric-Conversion-Mountain/dp/B07G17TPGD
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don't shy away from Bafang, lot of higher end bikes including RAD bikes use Bafang
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So to be clear, I can ride an e bike 750 watt and less behind gates that say no motorized vehicles?
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MIGht go this route, way cheaper than a new bike! Thanks for the tip. https://www.amazon.com/BAFANG-BBS02B-Electric-Conversion-Mountain/dp/B07G17TPGD
Yep, that Bafang crank drive setup is what I had spec'd for my mountain bike conversion plans.
If the national forest rules ever change to allow ebikes, then I'll pull the trigger on my conversion as I have some specific spots I'd like to take it into. For now it stays just a regular mountain bike.
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So to be clear, I can ride an e bike 750 watt and less behind gates that say no motorized vehicles?
depends :chuckle:
private property (timber company)
USFS
DNR land
BLM
??
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So to be clear, I can ride an e bike 750 watt and less behind gates that say no motorized vehicles?
depends :chuckle:
private property (timber company)
USFS
DNR land
BLM
??
Tagging in this thread to see answers to this
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.
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I did a Bafang crank drive conversion on my Trek MTB and love it. But from experience, if you plan to use the bike on trails then high power is a detriment. Keep in mind that on a trail you need control, not speed. You’ll need to creep around corners, bump over small logs etc. If you have a high power 1000 watt - or even 750 watts motor, when you touch the pedals that baby will take off FAST! Going uphill it might even pull a wheelstand especially in the low gear you need to be in on a trail. Ouch, slam on the brakes or crash. . Been there done that. My bike has a 36 volt / 500 watt system that is right for me. It’ll go over 25 miles per charge, is quiet and best of all I can feather the power when needed. I hate crashing.....
Actually the bike I use the most in backcountry is my wife’s Rad Bike Mini. It has fat tires, is relatively light, folds up to store in the truck bed, has built in racks front and back and is best of all is really easy to control.
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The nice thing about the new ultra motors is that they have torque sensitivity so as you press down on the cranks, the motor helps you more or less depending the need. It works really well. Ive had a biktrix and backou both full suspension bikes with ultra motors and 21amph batteries.
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Great feedback, I was in the "moar is better" camp
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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I did a Bafang crank drive conversion on my Trek MTB and love it. But from experience, if you plan to use the bike on trails then high power is a detriment. Keep in mind that on a trail you need control, not speed. You’ll need to creep around corners, bump over small logs etc. If you have a high power 1000 watt - or even 750 watts motor, when you touch the pedals that baby will take off FAST! Going uphill it might even pull a wheelstand especially in the low gear you need to be in on a trail. Ouch, slam on the brakes or crash. . Been there done that. My bike has a 36 volt / 500 watt system that is right for me. It’ll go over 25 miles per charge, is quiet and best of all I can feather the power when needed. I hate crashing.....
Actually the bike I use the most in backcountry is my wife’s Rad Bike Mini. It has fat tires, is relatively light, folds up to store in the truck bed, has built in racks front and back and is best of all is really easy to control.
What kit would you recommend ? I'm looking to get the more range than anything. And what you said makes complete sense
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I had my Trek converted at BME E bikes in California. I was in the area so it made sense at the time to have them do the work. Out the door price complete ready to ride was around $1200+. For not much more you could buy a complete ready to go Rad Bike - check them out. And oh yeah, another hint is to get a lower crossbar height than you would specify for a road bike. You’ll do a lot of stepping over the crossbar - sometimes unplanned. Ask how I know. Ouch. Another vote for the Rad Bike Mini with low step over bar.
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Following, very interested in purchasing a conversion kit of electric bike. Rad power bikes seem to be very popular in WA but I have a lot to learn, and I’m guessing there are lots of options and other not so well known companies that produce better bang for the buck?
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my specialized fuse has a small crank sprocket, anyone familiar with converting fatty bikes?
I think it's 28t crank?
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I own a Rambo bike use it all the time have never been hassled at all, I chain it up when I'm out and haven't had it messed with
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Ill also add that im 250 lbs tow a little trailer with my kids sometimes battery lasts a long time on just peddle assist . Any off the bikes out there for sale.the weight rating and battery life is super important . On my issue I have had was popped a few tunes through out the 3 years of owning it but always have a spare now
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Looks nice, sure hope you cover that scope and gun when riding, no fenders!
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I picked up 2 bnib bikes that had been in storage for 2 years.
Got the whole storage unit for $2k. Made out like a bandit....
The bikes are identical but badged differently.
One is a Polaris, who stopped making them
Other is a PIM (power in motion), who picked up Polaris’s design and kept building them.
Local company out of Redmond, shop in Ballard.
48v 12ah batteries
750w hub drive motors with regen
5 levels of assist, and regen.
From -1 where you pedal and only get assistance going up hill, full regen upon coasting and braking.
To +3 where it rips as long as you turn the cranks
25mph max and 20-30 miles of range
Low step crossbar is a must.
Heavy, at 55lbs but excellently built bikes
Biggest concern is battery life/ replacement.
Seems the industry should adopt a common plug and or mount for the batts.
Mine are proprietary, mounted in frame with a 13 prong plug.
There are a couple company’s out there doing rebuilds, but it would be easier to be able to
Buy new ones OTC
Lucked out and got a couple spares off Craigslist
Should be good to go for 4-6 years
Not a cheap game but a lot of fun
https://electricbikereview.com/brand/pim-bicycles/
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Interesting thread...tagging along so I can reference.
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Looks nice, sure hope you cover that scope and gun when riding, no fenders!
I have fenders now and yes I learned real quick on covering gun with a sleeve . That was summer time out checking cameras and looking for totes but totally have changed that since then
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You guys wanna throw that kind of money at a bike that is limited on which gates you can go in.I can pretty much bet all timber lands that allow access your not allowed.
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...except log trucks, survery's, private land owners, guys with keys that check the job out during hunting season...… But a 30 lb bicycle is going to scare off the wildlife. I'm mostly venting about the lands up in the Selkirk that have gates to protect the grizz, like they need protecting. :bash:
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Hopefully washington state and timber companies will follow suit with the feds and classify type 2 ebiks as being non motorized. The national forest service im told will be following blm and national parks in this as well. :tup:
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Hopefully washington state and timber companies will follow suit with the feds and classify type 2 ebiks as being non motorized. The national forest service im told will be following blm and national parks in this as well. :tup:
:yeah: I’m banking on that, and if I do buy one, I’m riding in.....
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Hopefully washington state and timber companies will follow suit with the feds and classify type 2 ebiks as being non motorized. The national forest service im told will be following blm and national parks in this as well. :tup:
Hope so , it would encourage more people to try new things and get outdoors. While I understand the added pressure i believe it would have little to know impact in comparison of logging, trespassing atv and offroad vehicles . If respect to established roads were maintained what would the harm be ? I know several timber companies That use the sign posted above but with a simple phone call have said stay on the road and there is no harm. Also I have always been under the pretense that if it's 750watts or less it is not federally considered motorized...
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Yes, class 11 750watts and under are considered non motorized by the feds as of Aug 29th
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These signs are pretty explaining the same thing to me.If it got a motor not allowed.
Hopefully washington state and timber companies will follow suit with the feds and classify type 2 ebiks as being non motorized. The national forest service im told will be following blm and national parks in this as well. :tup:
Hope so , it would encourage more people to try new things and get outdoors. While I understand the added pressure i believe it would have little to know impact in comparison of logging, trespassing atv and offroad vehicles . If respect to established roads were maintained what would the harm be ? I know several timber companies That use the sign posted above but with a simple phone call have said stay on the road and there is no harm. Also I have always been under the pretense that if it's 750watts or less it is not federally considered motorized...
As for this you better get a card that makes you authorized motor vehicle when you call,cause I will text the game warden on anybody rideing a motor vehicle in a cooperative road closer area.
Federal law or not ,on private timber lands it will be up to the land owner.
Just like this sign ,do u think because it doesn't have a pic of ebike that they will be allowed.
I say you all should jump on the ban wagon of ebikes cause the more of ya there is the quicker you will be added to all the signs and be outed all that money you spent.
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These signs are pretty explaining the same thing to me.If it got a motor not allowed.
Hopefully washington state and timber companies will follow suit with the feds and classify type 2 ebiks as being non motorized. The national forest service im told will be following blm and national parks in this as well. :tup:
Hope so , it would encourage more people to try new things and get outdoors. While I understand the added pressure i believe it would have little to know impact in comparison of logging, trespassing atv and offroad vehicles . If respect to established roads were maintained what would the harm be ? I know several timber companies That use the sign posted above but with a simple phone call have said stay on the road and there is no harm. Also I have always been under the pretense that if it's 750watts or less it is not federally considered motorized...
As for this you better get a card that makes you authorized motor vehicle when you call,cause I will text the game warden on anybody rideing a motor vehicle in a cooperative road closer area.
Federal law or not ,on private timber lands it will be up to the land owner.
Just like this sign ,do u think because it doesn't have a pic of ebike that they will be allowed.
I say you all should jump on the ban wagon of ebikes cause the more of ya there is the quicker you will be added to all the signs and be outed all that money you spent.
did I say anywhere Th ag if they said no I would it it anyway? No I didnt . It's an easy simple.phone call and sometimes it's a yes sometimes it's a no real.easy . Second when someone doesn't use there turn signal or passes a light on yellow when it could be red do text the police too? It's a dang bike I think people think and ebike is something you just sit on and it peddles for ya , well mine ya gotta pedal and it's not just push a button and go .
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These signs are pretty explaining the same thing to me.If it got a motor not allowed.
Hopefully washington state and timber companies will follow suit with the feds and classify type 2 ebiks as being non motorized. The national forest service im told will be following blm and national parks in this as well. :tup:
Hope so , it would encourage more people to try new things and get outdoors. While I understand the added pressure i believe it would have little to know impact in comparison of logging, trespassing atv and offroad vehicles . If respect to established roads were maintained what would the harm be ? I know several timber companies That use the sign posted above but with a simple phone call have said stay on the road and there is no harm. Also I have always been under the pretense that if it's 750watts or less it is not federally considered motorized...
As for this you better get a card that makes you authorized motor vehicle when you call,cause I will text the game warden on anybody rideing a motor vehicle in a cooperative road closer area.
Federal law or not ,on private timber lands it will be up to the land owner.
Just like this sign ,do u think because it doesn't have a pic of ebike that they will be allowed.
I say you all should jump on the ban wagon of ebikes cause the more of ya there is the quicker you will be added to all the signs and be outed all that money you spent.
did I say anywhere Th ag if they said no I would it it anyway? No I didnt . It's an easy simple.phone call and sometimes it's a yes sometimes it's a no real.easy . Second when someone doesn't use there turn signal or passes a light on yellow when it could be red do text the police too? It's a dang bike I think people think and ebike is something you just sit on and it peddles for ya , well mine ya gotta pedal and it's not just push a button and go .
All I can say to this if you can't read too well
The cooperative road closer sign says no motorized bikes .so ya when your in there screwing my hunting up for the day cause your too lazy to walk ,or read a sign.Ya I'm gonna text a warden .
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That timber sign says nothing about riding a bike, I'm all in on that gate!!
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That timber sign says nothing about riding a bike, I'm all in on that gate!!
But if you took five minutes to look at there policy and access rules.You might change your mind.The reason most access is taken away is no respect for property owner rules.
https://www.stimsonlumber.com/social-responsibility/recreational-access/
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These signs are pretty explaining the same thing to me.If it got a motor not allowed.
Hopefully washington state and timber companies will follow suit with the feds and classify type 2 ebiks as being non motorized. The national forest service im told will be following blm and national parks in this as well. :tup:
Hope so , it would encourage more people to try new things and get outdoors. While I understand the added pressure i believe it would have little to know impact in comparison of logging, trespassing atv and offroad vehicles . If respect to established roads were maintained what would the harm be ? I know several timber companies That use the sign posted above but with a simple phone call have said stay on the road and there is no harm. Also I have always been under the pretense that if it's 750watts or less it is not federally considered motorized...
As for this you better get a card that makes you authorized motor vehicle when you call,cause I will text the game warden on anybody rideing a motor vehicle in a cooperative road closer area.
Federal law or not ,on private timber lands it will be up to the land owner.
Just like this sign ,do u think because it doesn't have a pic of ebike that they will be allowed.
I say you all should jump on the ban wagon of ebikes cause the more of ya there is the quicker you will be added to all the signs and be outed all that money you spent.
did I say anywhere Th ag if they said no I would it it anyway? No I didnt . It's an easy simple.phone call and sometimes it's a yes sometimes it's a no real.easy . Second when someone doesn't use there turn signal or passes a light on yellow when it could be red do text the police too? It's a dang bike I think people think and ebike is something you just sit on and it peddles for ya , well mine ya gotta pedal and it's not just push a button and go .
All I can say to this if you can't read too well
The cooperative road closer sign says no motorized bikes .so ya when your in there screwing my hunting up for the day cause your too lazy to walk ,or read a sign.Ya I'm gonna text a warden .
First you say the timber sign now your saying the fish and game sign pretty easy to determine there differs t situations. Has nothing to do with be lazy it's called creating more opportunity and to be real once again did I ever state k would do it if prohibited ??? No I said make a call certain places have said yes or no problem stay on the road . So if you can't read very well I'll spell it out one more time IF THE SIGN SAYS NI AND IF YOU CONTACT THEM AND THEY MAKE EXCEPTION OR SAY YES TO SITUATION ILL RIDE ON IN AND BE WAY FURTHER BEFORE SUN UO TO RUIN YOUR HUNT . It's a discussion everyone has different opinions . Happy hunting
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These signs are pretty explaining the same thing to me.If it got a motor not allowed.
Hopefully washington state and timber companies will follow suit with the feds and classify type 2 ebiks as being non motorized. The national forest service im told will be following blm and national parks in this as well. :tup:
Hope so , it would encourage more people to try new things and get outdoors. While I understand the added pressure i believe it would have little to know impact in comparison of logging, trespassing atv and offroad vehicles . If respect to established roads were maintained what would the harm be ? I know several timber companies That use the sign posted above but with a simple phone call have said stay on the road and there is no harm. Also I have always been under the pretense that if it's 750watts or less it is not federally considered motorized...
As for this you better get a card that makes you authorized motor vehicle when you call,cause I will text the game warden on anybody rideing a motor vehicle in a cooperative road closer area.
Federal law or not ,on private timber lands it will be up to the land owner.
Just like this sign ,do u think because it doesn't have a pic of ebike that they will be allowed.
I say you all should jump on the ban wagon of ebikes cause the more of ya there is the quicker you will be added to all the signs and be outed all that money you spent.
did I say anywhere Th ag if they said no I would it it anyway? No I didnt . It's an easy simple.phone call and sometimes it's a yes sometimes it's a no real.easy . Second when someone doesn't use there turn signal or passes a light on yellow when it could be red do text the police too? It's a dang bike I think people think and ebike is something you just sit on and it peddles for ya , well mine ya gotta pedal and it's not just push a button and go .
All I can say to this if you can't read too well
The cooperative road closer sign says no motorized bikes .so ya when your in there screwing my hunting up for the day cause your too lazy to walk ,or read a sign.Ya I'm gonna text a warden .
First you say the timber sign now your saying the fish and game sign pretty easy to determine there differs t situations. Has nothing to do with be lazy it's called creating more opportunity and to be real once again did I ever state k would do it if prohibited ??? No I said make a call certain places have said yes or no problem stay on the road . So if you can't read very well I'll spell it out one more time IF THE SIGN SAYS NI AND IF YOU CONTACT THEM AND THEY MAKE EXCEPTION OR SAY YES TO SITUATION ILL RIDE ON IN AND BE WAY FURTHER BEFORE SUN UO TO RUIN YOUR HUNT . It's a discussion everyone has different opinions . Happy hunting
Just a fyi
A cooperative road closer is agreement between the timber company and WDFW to enforce the rules set by timber company and to allow access for good people that follow the rules some day there might not be access or agreement.GOOD HUNTING TO YOU ALSO.
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Yes, class 11 750watts and under are considered non motorized by the feds as of Aug 29th
Please provide the National Forest document stating that.
We already have a document posted on this website stating otherwise.
Trump changed the rule for some national parks. If you're saying the rule for the National Forest also changed, please provide proof.
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That timber sign says nothing about riding a bike, I'm all in on that gate!!
But if you took five minutes to look at there policy and access rules.You might change your mind.The reason most access is taken away is no respect for property owner rules.
https://www.stimsonlumber.com/social-responsibility/recreational-access/
If the feds say 750 watt and under isn’t considered motorized, then I’m following the rules right?
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I am just curious how many people have "walked completely through these closed access lands? In my expeience ya cant. 5-10 miles in is possible often but some are 15-50 miles so explain to me how a person is to legally access these lands and be a "Good People"? :chuckle: I support public access. Ride on brothers, till ya cant. Stand up for freedoms.
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Why are some so gung-ho to cheat the system?
Really don't get it. Non-motorized seems abundantly clear, but some gotta twist it. "Well, it's ok because my motor's not very big..." Where does it end?
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That timber sign says nothing about riding a bike, I'm all in on that gate!!
But if you took five minutes to look at there policy and access rules.You might change your mind.The reason most access is taken away is no respect for property owner rules.
https://www.stimsonlumber.com/social-responsibility/recreational-access/
If the feds say 750 watt and under isn’t considered motorized, then I’m following the rules right?
On federal land yes,private land you have to follow rules set by land owner if you want to have access .ITS CALLED RESPECT.
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Why are some so gung-ho to cheat the system?
Really don't get it. Non-motorized seems abundantly clear, but some gotta twist it. "Well, it's ok because my motor's not very big..." Where does it end?
Easy answer. We remember when we could access lands. We are fed up with this states bull. FED UP! Were you hunting here 30 years ago? If so I would think ya get it.
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Why are some so gung-ho to cheat the system?
Really don't get it. Non-motorized seems abundantly clear, but some gotta twist it. "Well, it's ok because my motor's not very big..." Where does it end?
Easy answer. We remember when we could access lands. We are fed up with this states bull. FED UP! Were you hunting here 30 years ago? If so I would think ya get it.
I've been hunting for over 40 years here in WA and yeah, the access trend has been terrible. I still think there's something to be said for working hard to access gated areas instead of depending on technology, not to mention respecting the rules of the land management AND the hunters that do it the right way,
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Why are some so gung-ho to cheat the system?
Really don't get it. Non-motorized seems abundantly clear, but some gotta twist it. "Well, it's ok because my motor's not very big..." Where does it end?
Easy answer. We remember when we could access lands. We are fed up with this states bull. FED UP! Were you hunting here 30 years ago? If so I would think ya get it.
Huh? How is the state of Washington to blame for blocking you from accessing private timber lands with an ebike?
Or are you referring to state owned DNR lands?
57% of Washington lands is private ownership....mostly by timber companies
27% is federal ownership, mostly the national forests and national parks, some BLM
14% is state DNR, state parks, etc.
2% is city/county owned
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If i had a 750 or less ebike, it’s considered non mortorized, so I’m not breaking any rules. Timber co or state land, now if the land owner says, no bicycles allowed, then I’d be breaking the rules. It’s all how you read it, and it could be read many different ways. I’d say in court with a good lawyer, I’d be just fine under the current verbiage.
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Correct me if wrong but I thought the original agreement with Weyco to purchase said lands at cheap price was to include public access for tax breaks and such. Yet here we are getting the shaft as all other private Co/land owners follow precedents set by weyco. So lobby and congress of Wa is to blame... And don't give me crap about walk ins and permits as public access, its not.
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Correct me if wrong but I thought the original agreement with Weyco to purchase said lands at cheap price was to include public access for tax breaks and such. Yet here we are getting the shaft as all other private Co/land owners follow precedents set by weyco. So lobby and congress of Wa is to blame... And don't give me crap about walk ins and permits as public access, its not.
That was 100% the original agreement