Post by: Jpmiller on November 22, 2019, 06:54:52 AM
I'm always thinking about upgrading my tent even though I've never had an issue with mine. I currently run a three man backpacking tent that packs fairly small and while I don't know the exact weight I do know it's light enough I don't need a lighter one. Its three or four years old and only cost me about 125 new I believe. I've always wondered about getting one of these high priced fancy tents to replace it but I dont really know the difference. I dont really need a stove as most of my trips are August bear and September deer and elk. Is it worth it to upgrade to a high end tents? What's the difference between tents of the same style? I see models that look exactly like the tent I own selling new for.hundreds of dollars more but I've not noticed or experienced any quality issues with mine. Not necessarily looking for brand/model suggestions just looking to hear what folks have noticed is or isn't better about high priced tents.
Post by: jackelope on November 22, 2019, 07:00:02 AM
You need a new one. Just let it happen.
Post by: jackelope on November 22, 2019, 07:03:29 AM
I considered this a decent middle of the road tent and this pic was taken in September. If I was upgrading, this is one issue I’d hope I would eliminate the possibility of happening. Aside from that, size and weight are a big deal. Double side doors and big vestibules are the other consideration for me. Side doors are much easier getting in and out of and big vestibules allow you to store some gear under cover and cook under cover if needed.
You pay for size and weight.
Post by: banishd on November 22, 2019, 07:11:07 AM
Post by: kselkhunter on November 22, 2019, 07:47:10 AM
4 season tents are higher priced due to the design for being able to withstand a snow load. They're typically heavier. A surprise September snow storm can cause even the sturdiest 3 season tent to bow in on itself as those poles typically are not meant for snow load (hence the 3 season moniker). So that is why a 4 season is more expensive.
I have multiple tents, but my primary is a Big Agnes Fly Creek UL3. 3lb 5 ounces. I could switch to the UL2 model and get down to under 2lbs, but I like having the extra space to keep my pack and weapon in the tent with me. Plus for my hunts out of state, I have a friend with me usually and the 3man gives us enough room inside for two adult men. So that UL3 is what I reach for most when heading out for a backcountry early season hunt.
When the wet or snowy weather starts I switch over to my SO tipi w/stove primarily for drying my clothes at night, but it also holds up best in bad weather (4 season). Although I also have an in-between setup where I modified a tarp with stove jack that I can set up above my tent and run my stove on the other open end so I can use it to dry my clothes (let's me avoid packing my 8-man tipi on solo trips in late September/early October).
Post by: jackelope on November 22, 2019, 07:49:59 AM
One that is near the top of my list is the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2.
https://www.bigagnes.com/Copper-Spur-HV-UL2
Post by: Buzz2401 on November 22, 2019, 08:16:22 AM
Post by: OltHunter on November 22, 2019, 08:30:47 AM
So look into the fabric differences. A cheaper tent can be comparable to an expensive one, but just use heavier fabrics. Looking at a fabric website, a 1.1oz Silpoly is $5.95 a yard, 1.1oz Silnylon is $11.00/yd. A 1.1oz Silpoly with PU4000 coating is $7.75yd. A 1.1oz MTN Silnylon 6.6 is $12.50/yd. A 1.0oz Dyneema CT2K.18 is $37.50/yd and a 1.2oz Dyneema waterproof/breathable is $54/yd.
Aluminum grades and thickness are another cost determination. Or are the poles carbon.
Does the rain fly stop a few inches above the tent floor, or does it go all the way close to the ground. Does it have a vestibule or not and how many guy outs are on it.
Something made in America or mass produced is another.
And brand name holds a premium too.
In the end, you got to find that balance for your budget of how heavy you want to go and how bomb proof do you want it. If materials are the same, the lighter you go, the less bomb proof it will be like Buzz2401 mentioned. But if you are going lighter and keeping the same durability, the price will be going up quickly but you better make sure the fabric is the reason and not the name printed on the tent!
Hope that helps.
Post by: X-Force on November 22, 2019, 08:37:16 AM
To me it’s a question of room, floor/no floor, ability to stand, heat? Lots of options. I like the MSR Hubba line and lines like it because they are light, double walled of mesh and if you want to go light you can have a free standing floorless shelter. Depending on conditions it’s also nice to have heat so seek outside or kifaru have their place too. Lots off options out there. Whittle down what you want or options, weight and cost. Then you will still have 4-10 good shelters to choose from :chuckle:
Post by: Jpmiller on November 22, 2019, 01:27:32 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191122/cf5edc487a1aad7bead01b783d86a841.jpeg)
I considered this a decent middle of the road tent and this pic was taken in September. If I was upgrading, this is one issue I’d hope I would eliminate the possibility of happening. Aside from that, size and weight are a big deal. Double side doors and big vestibules are the other consideration for me. Side doors are much easier getting in and out of and big vestibules allow you to store some gear under cover and cook under cover if needed.
You pay for size and weight.
I've never had more than a dusting of snow, what is the best way to prevent snow collapse? Stronger poles or more of a tipi style design?
Post by: kselkhunter on November 22, 2019, 03:17:25 PM
3 season tents are not designed for snow loads. Sometimes the poles just bend and once you clear the snow they pop back up. Sometimes a pole breaks. I have had both situations happen to me.
You can try to rig a tarp up over the top of the 3 season tent, and that can help distribute the snow better if pitched at an appropriate angle. But a heavier snow storm will eventually defeat that setup as well, unless you have enough support points. If you're doing August or early September hunts, the tarp idea could be best fit. If you know you'll do some October or November trips as well, that is when a tipi starts making more sense.
Post by: jackelope on November 22, 2019, 04:38:52 PM
Scott and I were up all night clearing snow off of it. It was a crappy night.
Post by: Buckhunter24 on November 22, 2019, 05:17:25 PM
Post by: jackelope on November 22, 2019, 05:19:33 PM
Post by: Buckhunter24 on November 22, 2019, 05:22:52 PM
Post by: kselkhunter on November 22, 2019, 05:45:30 PM
Im new to backcountry camping si theres probably something obvious I am missing. That looks like pretty healthy timber behind the campsite with low risk of coming down, would getting under the canopy with the tent be a good option there?
When setting up in timber, walk around and inspect trees and tree limbs very closely before setting up. Deadfall is always a risk so I look for which way they're leaning, as well as a widow maker limb giving way and landing on you. If there is snow, snow bombs coming off a tree when a bough releases all it's snow at once due to weight can also damage your tent, especially if there is some ice in it.
Post by: Jpmiller on November 23, 2019, 09:31:39 PM
Im new to backcountry camping si theres probably something obvious I am missing. That looks like pretty healthy timber behind the campsite with low risk of coming down, would getting under the canopy with the tent be a good option there?
If you look at the Backcountry camps thread you see A ton of pics of folks camped way out exposed and on risgetops. I've always tried to get sheltered spots and have had much better experiences than the few times I was out in the open.
Post by: Jpmiller on November 23, 2019, 09:33:34 PM
It's mainly to do with fabrics and construction and country of origin. lighter weight fabrics with the same tear strength as heavier fabrics are going to cost more per yard. anything with Dyneema is going to be close to 5x the cost of anything close. are the fabrics pu coated on both sides or just one and a DWR on the other. Is it silicone impregnated too and what is the hydrostatic head. Are the seams sealed.
So look into the fabric differences. A cheaper tent can be comparable to an expensive one, but just use heavier fabrics. Looking at a fabric website, a 1.1oz Silpoly is $5.95 a yard, 1.1oz Silnylon is $11.00/yd. A 1.1oz Silpoly with PU4000 coating is $7.75yd. A 1.1oz MTN Silnylon 6.6 is $12.50/yd. A 1.0oz Dyneema CT2K.18 is $37.50/yd and a 1.2oz Dyneema waterproof/breathable is $54/yd.
Aluminum grades and thickness are another cost determination. Or are the poles carbon.
Does the rain fly stop a few inches above the tent floor, or does it go all the way close to the ground. Does it have a vestibule or not and how many guy outs are on it.
Something made in America or mass produced is another.
And brand name holds a premium too.
In the end, you got to find that balance for your budget of how heavy you want to go and how bomb proof do you want it. If materials are the same, the lighter you go, the less bomb proof it will be like Buzz2401 mentioned. But if you are going lighter and keeping the same durability, the price will be going up quickly but you better make sure the fabric is the reason and not the name printed on the tent!
Hope that helps.
You talk like you know stuff. In terms of durability which fabrics would you recommend and which would you stay away from?
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on November 23, 2019, 09:44:06 PM
Post by: nwalpineguide on November 27, 2019, 04:23:05 PM
Post by: OltHunter on November 27, 2019, 04:54:23 PM
You talk like you know stuff. In terms of durability which fabrics would you recommend and which would you stay away from?
I was just trying to help answer your question about all the cost differences. You can have the best fabric in the world, but if you have an overseas sweat shop seaming them, it might not hold up as well as a cheaper fabric that is sewned better.
I'm not sure I can answer it specifically. Sort of depends on what weight and pack ability you want and budget. Do you need something for light rain and some wind, or something to withstand 60mph and 3 feet of snow?
General rule of thumb, I'd stay away anything less than 30D and only PU coating and fabrics without ripstop. 30D Cordura nylon with ripstop and silicone type coating or mix of PU is a good middle ground of weight/strength in my opinion and should cover most of your needs.
I've done a few DIY projects, but no expert by any means.
I'm partial to the tipi tents since I'm tall and can stand up, not feel like I'm in a coffin, and can run a stove if need be.
Post by: ian_padron on December 14, 2019, 07:45:52 PM
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