Post by: swanderek on December 11, 2019, 09:45:58 PM
What percent of deer taken by people are poached?
Anyone have any educated guess or insight?
Like 90% legal sportsman and 10% poached?
Post by: bigtex on December 11, 2019, 09:49:46 PM
Post by: Bango skank on December 11, 2019, 09:54:08 PM
A study by Oregon St U about 15 years ago said for one legally taken animal there is one illegally taken animal.
I know there are a lot of dirtbags out there, butva 1:1 ratio is pretty hard to believe maybe just because i donr want to believe it
Post by: idahohuntr on December 11, 2019, 10:06:51 PM
Post by: swanderek on December 11, 2019, 10:10:27 PM
Out of season, wrong weapons, multiple deer... things like that
Post by: bearpaw on December 11, 2019, 10:12:51 PM
How is "illegally taken" defined? If it's any violation of any associated rule/law then the overall impact is probably very low. For example, if they count not leaving evidence of sex, or no hunter orange as "illegally taken"...I'd argue those are infractions but not anything that should be used in discussions of how many deer are illegally taken each year. :twocents:
good points, I agree :yeah:
( I think the poaching rate is getting lower as years go by)
Post by: bigtex on December 11, 2019, 10:13:53 PM
The state study was conducted from Bend to the California border. Of 500 mule deer fitted with radio collars between July 2005 and last January, 128 died during the research. Of those, poachers killed 19 and hunters legally shot 21. Cougars killed 15 and eight were hit and killed by cars. Of the rest, five succumbed to coyotes, disease claimed five and four died while tangled in fences or from some other accident, Jackson said.
Biologists listed 51 as "cause of death unknown" but poachers could have taken some of those, he said. "Sometimes we just find the radio collar laying out in the sagebrush," he said.
Because the study wasn't designed to ferret out poachers, biologists don't know if other areas have comparable numbers of deer taken illegally, said Don Whittaker, Fish and Wildlife ungulate coordinator, but they suspect poaching is happening across Oregon.
https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2010/11/study_show_ssurprising_rate_of_mule_deer_poaching.html
Post by: bigtex on December 11, 2019, 10:16:27 PM
How is "illegally taken" defined? If it's any violation of any associated rule/law then the overall impact is probably very low. For example, if they count not leaving evidence of sex, or no hunter orange as "illegally taken"...I'd argue those are infractions but not anything that should be used in discussions of how many deer are illegally taken each year. :twocents:Not leaving evidence of sex isn't illegally taken, it's illegally possessed.
As far as hunter orange goes, the individual must've really pissed off the warden to receive that citation since just about everybody gives warnings for that offense. Even if they were issued a citation they wouldn't take a deer for it.
Post by: huntnnw on December 11, 2019, 10:33:08 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 11, 2019, 10:34:44 PM
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-11-01-sp-236-story.html (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-11-01-sp-236-story.html)
Nobody knows how many deer are poached in California every year, but it’s suspected to be far more than the 35,000 taken legally--perhaps as many as 75,000. In most cases, it’s the perfect crime--no witnesses, no evidence that a crime was even committed.
Post by: bankwalker on December 11, 2019, 10:41:15 PM
lotta animals poached in rural areas. There are alot of people who live almost off the grid or barely surviving shoot alot of animals when given the chance.
I know a few families around here that live that life.
Post by: huntnnw on December 11, 2019, 10:47:35 PM
Post by: hunter399 on December 12, 2019, 05:46:46 AM
Its everywhere, we hunted a area 30 years ago around northport where there was tons of deer, then these meth shacks start popping up and within a few years we were asking ourselves what happend to the deer population. Not a coincidence. This was long before the predator problem we have nowWhat happens when a pot head turns into a meth head = a poaching machine. :chuckle:
Post by: Tracker0721 on December 12, 2019, 06:01:48 AM
Post by: Bango skank on December 12, 2019, 06:11:22 AM
It’d help if the enforcement cared more about the wildlife than the fish. I called in a poached buck I found just the other day, no warden responded and now it’s gone. The best part is the deer left a trail running right back to the “mountain man’s” house. I hate those kind of people now because they claim to be “living off the land” and then they don’t preserve any of the meat so they only eat on it for a week and then they get another. Or they take hind quarters only. Or they go for moose and elk which are scarce enough up here. *censored*. I know more poachers than legal hunters right now. No lie. I tried talking to fish and game to become a warden and was told they wouldn’t put me back here everyone has to go to the port of Seattle first usually. So if you hunt ferry county just now these animals are getting the squeeze year round. Oh and most poachers and “mountain men” aren’t the old timers or ones that have been here. Most are the ones from the big cities or east coast that find out our land is cheap and get here. Once here they usually have to start making or dealing drugs to get by and few survive winter without committing some sort of crime- poaching deer, making some meth/BHO/or robbing someone else. So yeah, poached to legally taken in my area would be like 4:1 more than likely. Here’s the missed head shot during an archery only season.
Pretty disgusting. I always hear quite a few shots during archery season. But what can you do about that? Odds are some of those shots are poachers, but unless you actually see it to know whats going on, you just dont know, and i doubt a game warden would come investigate. It could be predator hunters, natives, guys with moose tags or raffle tags or who knows. could be, but im sure mostly its poachers.
And the "living off the land" thing is b.s. need meat? Buy a deer tag and 2 bear tags and fill them legally. And these types of people always seem to have money for beer and smokes, so they can afford tags or store bought meat the way i see it.
Post by: boneaddict on December 12, 2019, 06:29:06 AM
I think the study was a bunch of collared animals and how they died. Predators was the biggest chunk, roadkill, then poaching, then legal harvest. If I stumble into it again, I'll post the link. I cant recall the year but think it was 2017. Poaching was higher in South Central Oregon than the Blues.
Post by: Henrydog on December 12, 2019, 06:42:05 AM
I think this is the one
Post by: boneaddict on December 12, 2019, 07:24:53 AM
(https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/boneaddict/bucks2/EF02C2DA-1332-498B-9F8C-F5A452A7E084_zpscqprdtmt.png)
Post by: Southpole on December 12, 2019, 07:48:34 AM
lotta animals poached in rural areas. There are alot of people who live almost off the grid or barely surviving shoot alot of animals when given the chance.:yeah: Like Tracker said, LOTS of poaching in rural/depressed areas. I’ve spent a lot of time around the curlew area cruising the private timber, forest service and state roads and have seen on many occasions people heading in at dark when I’m heading out. You know darn well what they’re up to. They’re not afraid to get caught, there’s nobody around to bust’um :dunno: . Growing up in Oso/Darrington area, before the state started locking gates, the “local” young boys would make some late night beer cruises, mixed with a little spot lighting. I would believe the 1:1 ratio legal vs. poaching for sure.
Post by: OutHouse on December 12, 2019, 08:31:02 AM
Post by: Stein on December 12, 2019, 09:01:26 AM
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Post by: Fishhunt223 on December 12, 2019, 09:03:36 AM
Post by: Henrydog on December 12, 2019, 09:10:44 AM
Post by: Mudman on December 12, 2019, 09:32:43 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 12, 2019, 09:32:58 AM
It’d help if the enforcement cared more about the wildlife than the fish. I called in a poached buck I found just the other day, no warden responded and now it’s gone. The best part is the deer left a trail running right back to the “mountain man’s” house. I hate those kind of people now because they claim to be “living off the land” and then they don’t preserve any of the meat so they only eat on it for a week and then they get another. Or they take hind quarters only. Or they go for moose and elk which are scarce enough up here. *censored*. I know more poachers than legal hunters right now. No lie. I tried talking to fish and game to become a warden and was told they wouldn’t put me back here everyone has to go to the port of Seattle first usually. So if you hunt ferry county just now these animals are getting the squeeze year round. Oh and most poachers and “mountain men” aren’t the old timers or ones that have been here. Most are the ones from the big cities or east coast that find out our land is cheap and get here. Once here they usually have to start making or dealing drugs to get by and few survive winter without committing some sort of crime- poaching deer, making some meth/BHO/or robbing someone else. So yeah, poached to legally taken in my area would be like 4:1 more than likely. Here’s the missed head shot during an archery only season.The enforcement in the field are excellent protectors of our resource. Much of the rest of what you say may or may not be actually representative of wildlife harvest as a whole in WA.
Post by: Ironhead on December 12, 2019, 09:44:31 AM
Post by: Buckhunter24 on December 12, 2019, 09:47:45 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 12, 2019, 10:58:38 AM
I dont think they care more about fish than game. Its definitely easier to regulate since theres only so many places to fish. Ive been checked once when hunting in over 20 years. Ive probably been checked 20 times in 25 years of fishing. Realistically there needs to be more wardens if poaching accounts for this much mortality :twocents:
The administration puts more resources on Fish than Game because of the income and taxes fishing produces. Commercial fisheries require monitoring, as well as sport fishing. Economics.
Post by: ghosthunter on December 12, 2019, 11:11:39 AM
Asked what I had seen. Nothing.
Its over today.
They said," the local's season starts tomorrow" and laughed.
Post by: Southpole on December 12, 2019, 11:45:39 AM
on the last day of modern this year. two young men pulled up to talk to me as I came out of woods.I've heard that term used a few times as well >:(
Asked what I had seen. Nothing.
Its over today.
They said," the local's season starts tomorrow" and laughed.
Post by: bigtex on December 12, 2019, 12:08:55 PM
I dont think they care more about fish than game. Its definitely easier to regulate since theres only so many places to fish. Ive been checked once when hunting in over 20 years. Ive probably been checked 20 times in 25 years of fishing. Realistically there needs to be more wardens if poaching accounts for this much mortality :twocents:It depends on where and when you recreate. I know guys like you who have been checked once while hunting in 20 years. I also know guys who are checked every deer season.
Post by: bigtex on December 12, 2019, 12:10:39 PM
I tried talking to fish and game to become a warden and was told they wouldn’t put me back here everyone has to go to the port of Seattle first usually.Not sure who you talked to but that is blatantly false.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 12, 2019, 12:27:44 PM
I tried talking to fish and game to become a warden and was told they wouldn’t put me back here everyone has to go to the port of Seattle first usually.Not sure who you talked to but that is blatantly false.
🤣
Post by: hunter399 on December 12, 2019, 01:48:21 PM
No Hunter Orange is a red flag to me
Coming or going from the woods once it's dark or early mourning before light.
Two to three people hunting,one beat up rifle .
I guess when I see people doing stuff that's not legal or breaking some game regs ,im gonna just have to wonder if they have a tag or should be hunting at all.
Post by: Bango skank on December 12, 2019, 01:51:16 PM
I will say this anytime I see certain thing I assume poaching.
Coming or going from the woods once it's dark or early mourning before light.
Are you kidding me wuth that? Im always going into the woods well before daylight and/or coming out well after dark.
Post by: frazierw on December 12, 2019, 01:56:05 PM
I will say this anytime I see certain thing I assume poaching.
Coming or going from the woods once it's dark or early mourning before light.
Are you kidding me wuth that? Im always going into the woods well before daylight and/or coming out well after dark.
I think he meant going into the woods late at night, or coming out of the woods early in the morning in the dark. Otherwise most hunters would be suspected as poachers lol
Post by: 7mmfan on December 12, 2019, 01:58:29 PM
I will say this anytime I see certain thing I assume poaching.
No Hunter Orange is a red flag to me
Coming or going from the woods once it's dark or early mourning before light.
Two to three people hunting,one beat up rifle .
I guess when I see people doing stuff that's not legal or breaking some game regs ,im gonna just have to wonder if they have a tag or should be hunting at all.
I'm going to agree with Bango on this one. I don't wear my hunter orange everywhere, or while I'm driving from A-B. I am usually driving into or out of the woods hours before and after dark, hell I'm walking into and out of the woods hours before and after dark. There's no rule that everyone has to have their own rifle is there? 3 tag holders can walk together with 1 rifle as long as 1 guy isn't shooting for the other 2. Back country hunters do this sometimes to cut down on pack weight. Might seem weird, but certainly isn't illegal, or makes a guy a poacher.
Post by: cb1989 on December 12, 2019, 01:59:45 PM
At least blacktail have some place thick to hide. I'd wager mule deer and elk get hit much harder than blacktails. The fact that all of the east side winter habitat is shot through with roads doesnt help.
Post by: Tracker0721 on December 12, 2019, 02:22:40 PM
I tried talking to fish and game to become a warden and was told they wouldn’t put me back here everyone has to go to the port of Seattle first usually.Not sure who you talked to but that is blatantly false.
I’ve talked to a woman twice in Olympia and both times she said that most warden start their career in the Sound. Also our Warden that was out of Colville patrolling this area in 2015 when I left the military told me that as well. And when I’ve sent emails specifically asking about it the response is “you must be willing to accept whatever position is offered”. So for you to call it out as false than I’m assuming you’re a warden and maybe you should call the HR and see what they’re telling people these days. I can send you the email I just got 1.5 weeks ago.
I’m born and raised ferry county and I’d say Kram was a d-head but poaching has skyrocketed since he left. And the wardens that are responsible now for our entire county are pretty much unheard of. Why do you think the sheriffs department has taken on forest patrol. No training on rules or regs and just told to go drive and be a show of force. A wealthy guy I know who owns a nice chunk of land took 27 BUCKS in 2017. But the last warden I dealt with who actually showed up in a timely manner was Anderson(believe that’s the one) in like 2012. He was able to make the arrest and found parts of at least a dozen deer in the guys freezers. So while it is a economic’s game like Pianoman had said- 101 has been featured in outdoor life for mule deer hunting, the number of people claiming they hunted it on the report is double the population and the deer hunters is even higher and the amount of traffic through republic alone sets records at all restaurants and gas stations yet no warden full time. Or even during season. I start with archery In September, bear in August actually, end my fur season in March and start turkey in April every year so constantly in the woods and I saw 1 warden this year with my truck full of cage traps and I didn’t get stopped. Stricter and more frequent enforcement is what’s needed to reduce poaching. Not more or less laws but more enforcement of what’s already in place. Or else more of us that follow the rules will have less opportunity and the herds will continue to shrink. But honestly counting up right now for my area alone as I have no experience in another area so I shouldn’t voice my uneducated opinion I’d say yeah, 2-4 poached per legal harvest. And I’m talking no tags, spot lights, multiple animals, rifles in archery, out of season etc.
Post by: bigtex on December 12, 2019, 02:38:29 PM
Yes you must be willing to accept whatever position is offered. But that does not mean everybody starts in Seattle, that's not even feasible considering there is just one officer stationed for Seattle.I’ve talked to a woman twice in Olympia and both times she said that most warden start their career in the Sound. Also our Warden that was out of Colville patrolling this area in 2015 when I left the military told me that as well. And when I’ve sent emails specifically asking about it the response is “you must be willing to accept whatever position is offered”. So for you to call it out as false than I’m assuming you’re a warden and maybe you should call the HR and see what they’re telling people these days. I can send you the email I just got 1.5 weeks ago.I tried talking to fish and game to become a warden and was told they wouldn’t put me back here everyone has to go to the port of Seattle first usually.Not sure who you talked to but that is blatantly false.
There are plenty of officers who have started their career in eastern Washington or the more rural parts of western Washington. In your first statement you said most officers start at the port of Seattle, well that's false because there's only one marine officer assigned to Seattle. There's a difference between "assigned to the port of seattle" and "working the sound" there's 11 counties that touch the sound, you could start in one of those counties and any of the other 28.
The fact is WDFW Enforcement wants people who want to be a WDFW Officer, and not just the game warden for Ferry County. If you come in saying you only want to work in Ferry, Stevens, Okanogan, etc then sorry you won't get the job. But if you go in saying you want to just be a WDFW Officer and will take any position, you'll be surprised at the list of positions that are available, and one may be very close to home. With the amount of retirements, promotions, transfers, etc. there are always duty stations opening up across the state.
Post by: swanderek on December 12, 2019, 02:48:32 PM
So more deer are poached then legal harvest?
Post by: Rainier10 on December 12, 2019, 02:57:37 PM
Wow
So more deer are poached then legal harvest?
Yep and I have heard that it is more than 1:1 as some have stated. I have heard 2 or 3 poached for every 1 taken legally. You stop poaching and you massively increase opportunity for everyone.
Post by: RileyH on December 12, 2019, 04:26:40 PM
There's an entire group (two families) of shady hunters near our property. Never wear orange, tell people they can't hunt on public land and get in your face about it, drive ATV's through wherever/whoever's property they want, regularly scope anyone wearing orange, shoot outside of legal hours or seasons, name a rule and they've broken it. Reporting has never had any apparent impact on them.
Yet they got their Hunting Washington Instagram feature this week and thousands of likes. I'm not a betting man but I'd put money down it'll happen again next year, like every year...
:twocents:
Post by: hunter399 on December 12, 2019, 04:38:50 PM
I almost never wear it in the truck,but as soon as I get out I put it on.
If your driving up at dusk to go hunting the next mourning without camping gear and such ,seem a little out of place
Post by: swanderek on December 12, 2019, 04:54:05 PM
Post by: buckfvr on December 12, 2019, 05:24:47 PM
Post by: dilleytech on December 14, 2019, 09:28:53 AM
Let's take wearing Hunter Orange ,I'm just a betting man that if you will break one rule you will break many more.
I almost never wear it in the truck,but as soon as I get out I put it on.
If your driving up at dusk to go hunting the next mourning without camping gear and such ,seem a little out of place
I also don’t wear orange until I’m out of the vehicle. But just so yo know a lot of people will sleep in there drivers seat.
I feel the overwhelming majority of “poaching” is accidental. But maybe I’m wrong and just have never met these groups of people. The kinda people who refer to elk and deer as small deer and big deer generally have no idea what the laws are.
Post by: huntingfool7 on December 14, 2019, 10:57:46 AM
A study by Oregon St U about 15 years ago said for one legally taken animal there is one illegally taken animal.
Would not surprise me at all. I've known some poachers, most are long dead now. None of them limited themselves to 1 big game animal a year.
Post by: mountainman on December 15, 2019, 09:19:25 AM
Post by: Bango skank on December 15, 2019, 09:28:27 AM
Let's take wearing Hunter Orange ,I'm just a betting man that if you will break one rule you will break many more.
I almost never wear it in the truck,but as soon as I get out I put it on.
If your driving up at dusk to go hunting the next mourning without camping gear and such ,seem a little out of place
How do you know who has camping gear? Ill drive up into the woods in the dark st night, then crawl into the bed of my truck as nd sleep. That way im already there in the morning. If im hunting somewhere an hour + from home it just lets me sleep in that much longer.
And no, not wearing orange doesnt mean youre going to be a poacher. If i decide not to wear orange, thats my call. Its my own personal safety, that should be my choice. Yeah, i could get a ticket. Whatever.
Post by: KFhunter on December 15, 2019, 09:45:23 AM
families have long history of poaching, whole communities who poach. I think it's getting worse as respect for WDFW goes down the drain, no one fears getting caught let alone seeing much done in court even if they are caught. If legal hunters disdain and detest WDFW, how do you think poachers feel?
I actually think as WDFW circles the drain its creating more and more poachers. Can't tell you how many guys I hear say "piss on WDFW, I'm just going to poach this crap keeps up" and those statements aren't coming from tweakers or law breakers...far far from it.
10:1 might be conservative actually.
Post by: swanderek on December 15, 2019, 11:02:13 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2019, 11:11:13 AM
Post by: KFhunter on December 15, 2019, 11:25:37 AM
10 deer to 1 in some areas/GMU’s would not surprise me at all. Statewide average I bet is less, maybe three to one.
:yeah:
should have made that more clear. Statewide I got no idea, but we all know of areas with high incidents of poaching...yet what is done about it??? hrm??
coworker moved in from out of town, got to know him, he bought property near a certain area, I tried to warn him....
He improved his raw property, made some deer feeders, food plot. come opening morning his place was littered with carcasses, like 7 different gut piles.
Post by: Bob33 on December 15, 2019, 11:35:34 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2019, 12:18:57 PM
Post by: Gobble Doc on December 15, 2019, 01:29:24 PM
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Post by: Bob33 on December 15, 2019, 03:45:13 PM
I would put two points shot and left on the ground in the poached category. :twocents:I would agree. Another number in the mix are deer legally killed but not reported. If there are 40,000 deer legally killed and the poaching number is 3x then that's a total of 160,000.
Post by: Bango skank on December 15, 2019, 03:55:11 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 15, 2019, 04:01:44 PM
Post by: Bango skank on December 15, 2019, 04:11:31 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on December 15, 2019, 04:35:47 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 15, 2019, 06:10:08 PM
40k x3 = 120k, not 160kTotal: 40k legal + 120K poached = 160K total killed by humans. That seems high to me.
Post by: Caseyd on December 15, 2019, 06:18:52 PM
Post by: jmscon on December 16, 2019, 01:28:25 PM
But then again, not really
Post by: Tracker0721 on December 16, 2019, 02:22:37 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on December 16, 2019, 03:17:10 PM
The instructor for that class had started as a special deputy game warden in Wisconsin in 1954, after his Korean war service. Wisconsin that year hired several wardens to focus exclusively on "jacklighting" deer. In his first year, he arrested over 200 spotlighters. In his second year, less than 50. Results were similar for the other special deputies, they put a heck of a dent in the prevalence of night hunting deer. Targeted enforcement works.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on December 16, 2019, 03:21:37 PM
How is "illegally taken" defined? If it's any violation of any associated rule/law then the overall impact is probably very low. For example, if they count not leaving evidence of sex, or no hunter orange as "illegally taken"...I'd argue those are infractions but not anything that should be used in discussions of how many deer are illegally taken each year. :twocents:Studies I looked at included illegal animals during an open season (e.g., does during buck-only), animals taken by illegal means (night hunting, trapped/snared, over limits etc), and animals taken during a closed season.
Post by: KFhunter on December 16, 2019, 03:24:31 PM
We need those backyard deer to help keep the population up, might come a time when we need to relocate and back fill dead areas.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on December 16, 2019, 03:30:47 PM
on the last day of modern this year. two young men pulled up to talk to me as I came out of woods.When I lived in east Lewis County, numerous locals said things to the effect that it was no use hunting during the season, that's when the animals hide. We lived 8 miles from Mossyrock on Green Mountain Road, in 10 months my wife and I counted 110 rifle shots at night from our house. At the time, the Lewis County Sheriff estimated 10% of the county residents were involved in the meth trade.
Asked what I had seen. Nothing.
Its over today.
They said," the local's season starts tomorrow" and laughed.
Post by: Rainier10 on December 16, 2019, 03:47:17 PM
I didn't much care about locals shooting backyard deer, but now that I feel the population is crashing there's a lot more awareness on poaching and now I care.
We need those backyard deer to help keep the population up, might come a time when we need to relocate and back fill dead areas.
This one has me completely puzzled. Can you expand on your thoughts?
Post by: Bob33 on December 16, 2019, 04:37:51 PM
Post by: Odell on December 16, 2019, 04:52:27 PM
Social media and becoming "Instafamous" are two contributors that can't be discounted.
There's an entire group (two families) of shady hunters near our property. Never wear orange, tell people they can't hunt on public land and get in your face about it, drive ATV's through wherever/whoever's property they want, regularly scope anyone wearing orange, shoot outside of legal hours or seasons, name a rule and they've broken it. Reporting has never had any apparent impact on them.
Yet they got their Hunting Washington Instagram feature this week and thousands of likes. I'm not a betting man but I'd put money down it'll happen again next year, like every year...
:twocents:
If this is for real, and you can stand by your claim i really think you should name names
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 16, 2019, 05:53:56 PM
Post by: brew on December 16, 2019, 07:32:54 PM
Seems it's you responsibility to report them but that's just my thoughtyeah if only it were that easy. I've been hunting the weyco vail permit for the past 5 years and have seen zero,0,none, nada, zip, 1 minus 1 LEO persons up in that area. During that time I have seen countless vehicles entering and driving up from that gate well after dark then I have seen during my entire day hunting that unit. I have personally been driving out 30 minutes after dark and have heard countless gunshots less than 200 yards from where i'm driving---am i going to drive over there and see whats going on ? Hell no. Yes i have reported to WDFW about the after hours shooting and have talked to the forest patrol up there about the rampant poaching. Forest Patrol says WEYCO is aware of the poaching but they are not armed and they are not going to approach someone who has shot after hours. Forest Patrol says WEYCO is aware of the poaching but they are doing what the timber company wants--reducing the deer population on their tree farm. Just this past Saturday i took my son up there archery hunting. We were coming out just after dark and stopped at a blind crossroad to take a leak. we were standing there and saw a rig fully lighted up with LED lights heading up into the unit we were leaving...about 2 miles from the mainline and about 3 miles from the gate. Stayed there until they came up and asked them what was up. they said a buddy arrowed a deer on that road and they were going to help him find the deer. Asked them what road his buddy was on and we could help. Dude gave a bogus road number and didn't even know what road he was on. Kinda funny that he was coming up a road he didn't know what number he was on nor what number his buddy was on and he was going about 10 MPH swinging the lights side to side. Way more poaching going on than people think. Report what i can but believe nothing really happens
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 16, 2019, 07:41:14 PM
Post by: KFhunter on December 16, 2019, 07:59:46 PM
Ya, lots of poor families in a rural area and deer thick as flies. It was well known, wood cutters leaking blood out of a load of firewood. Old school wardens knew who the needy families were and turned a blind eye. Generations of poachers just lived this way.I didn't much care about locals shooting backyard deer, but now that I feel the population is crashing there's a lot more awareness on poaching and now I care.
We need those backyard deer to help keep the population up, might come a time when we need to relocate and back fill dead areas.
This one has me completely puzzled. Can you expand on your thoughts?
Things have changed, less deer and more benefits for low income families means I care a lot more now, no reason to poach anymore, spend that ebt money and quit poaching!
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on December 16, 2019, 10:55:35 PM
2nd poached deer, this one a doe dumped in the middle of a county road. Buck only area. Passed it and took pictures this morning, just called it in and no one else has even reported it. 6 hours on a pretty “busy” road. This is why people would think poaching isn’t as high because no one reports it and no one talks about it.
Not saying it wasn't poached, but are you sure it wasn't a road kill someone claimed?
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2019, 11:45:44 PM
It’d help if the enforcement cared more about the wildlife than the fish. I called in a poached buck I found just the other day, no warden responded and now it’s gone. The best part is the deer left a trail running right back to the “mountain man’s” house. I hate those kind of people now because they claim to be “living off the land” and then they don’t preserve any of the meat so they only eat on it for a week and then they get another. Or they take hind quarters only. Or they go for moose and elk which are scarce enough up here. *censored*. I know more poachers than legal hunters right now. No lie. I tried talking to fish and game to become a warden and was told they wouldn’t put me back here everyone has to go to the port of Seattle first usually. So if you hunt ferry county just now these animals are getting the squeeze year round. Oh and most poachers and “mountain men” aren’t the old timers or ones that have been here. Most are the ones from the big cities or east coast that find out our land is cheap and get here. Once here they usually have to start making or dealing drugs to get by and few survive winter without committing some sort of crime- poaching deer, making some meth/BHO/or robbing someone else. So yeah, poached to legally taken in my area would be like 4:1 more than likely. Here’s the missed head shot during an archery only season.
I always hear quite a few shots during archery season. But what can you do about that? Odds are some of those shots are poachers, but unless you actually see it to know whats going on, you just dont know
Keep in mind that even during archery season, there are a few allowed to hunt with any weapon they choose. ;)
Post by: Bango skank on December 17, 2019, 12:14:42 AM
It’d help if the enforcement cared more about the wildlife than the fish. I called in a poached buck I found just the other day, no warden responded and now it’s gone. The best part is the deer left a trail running right back to the “mountain man’s” house. I hate those kind of people now because they claim to be “living off the land” and then they don’t preserve any of the meat so they only eat on it for a week and then they get another. Or they take hind quarters only. Or they go for moose and elk which are scarce enough up here. *censored*. I know more poachers than legal hunters right now. No lie. I tried talking to fish and game to become a warden and was told they wouldn’t put me back here everyone has to go to the port of Seattle first usually. So if you hunt ferry county just now these animals are getting the squeeze year round. Oh and most poachers and “mountain men” aren’t the old timers or ones that have been here. Most are the ones from the big cities or east coast that find out our land is cheap and get here. Once here they usually have to start making or dealing drugs to get by and few survive winter without committing some sort of crime- poaching deer, making some meth/BHO/or robbing someone else. So yeah, poached to legally taken in my area would be like 4:1 more than likely. Here’s the missed head shot during an archery only season.
I always hear quite a few shots during archery season. But what can you do about that? Odds are some of those shots are poachers, but unless you actually see it to know whats going on, you just dont know
Keep in mind that even during archery season, there are a few allowed to hunt with any weapon they choose. ;)
Im well aware. I was hunting deer with a rifle during archery season in 2017 when i had a raffle tag. And here a couple weeks ago i shot a couple predators during archery season. Theres raffle and auction tags, moose tags, predator hunters etc. But the number of rifle shots i hear during archery season each year,
in various areas, odds are some of them are not on the up and up. But thats my point. You dont know that the gun fire you hear is illegal, so calling in every shot you hear would be ridiculous, thats why im saying you just dont call it in unless you actually see illegal activity going on. Or what appears to be illegal. Just hearing gunfire isnt enough to report.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 17, 2019, 05:21:38 AM
Post by: Tracker0721 on December 17, 2019, 06:14:54 AM
2nd poached deer, this one a doe dumped in the middle of a county road. Buck only area. Passed it and took pictures this morning, just called it in and no one else has even reported it. 6 hours on a pretty “busy” road. This is why people would think poaching isn’t as high because no one reports it and no one talks about it.
Not saying it wasn't poached, but are you sure it wasn't a road kill someone claimed?
I considered that but with the tire marks literally burning out back down and just being in the middle of the road I called it in. No roadkill permits in the area were called in so they said they’d pass it in.
Post by: MADMAX on December 17, 2019, 06:38:12 AM
Yea you right, no use getting yourself in a jam if its unneeded. It's not just on Weyco property these days unfortunately. Ton of it goes on over at Mt Anne people feel they are entitled. Can't remember when the last time I saw a decoy trap, probably before WDFW became LEO's.
saw a decoy buck a couple years back going up past Perragin during muley archery
in the grass on the curves heading up bear creek obviously out of place
looked like a fully rubbed 4x4 with a winter coat fake deer in Sept
people were stopping and laughing at it and the game cops had to yell no stopping, people were trying to take pictures of it
Post by: Stein on December 17, 2019, 08:56:29 AM
Part of it is probably odds, the more you do it the greater the chance of getting caught. Couple that with the current notion in this state that you only have to follow some of the laws and ignore the rest and you get a pretty bad scenario.
Post by: buckfvr on December 17, 2019, 09:20:39 AM
Post by: OutHouse on December 17, 2019, 05:53:01 PM
Post by: 444Marlin on December 18, 2019, 11:53:22 PM
Let's all do our part to get good descriptions of the vehicles, individuals, time and location and report it to the tip lines. I believe a lot of the game enforcement folks are spread too thin and have a lack of resources.
Post by: KFhunter on December 19, 2019, 07:16:39 AM
I've heard that some game wardens feel that 80% of the poaching is done by 10-20% of the poachers. Meaning: there's some serial poachers that are obsessed with it and do it all the time.Yes!
Let's all do our part to get good descriptions of the vehicles, individuals, time and location and report it to the tip lines. I believe a lot of the game enforcement folks are spread too thin and have a lack of resources.
Agree 100%
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Post by: Snakeriver10 on December 23, 2019, 01:24:17 PM
With the way Washington seasons are, you can’t instantly confirm a rifle shot during archery to be considered poaching. I would love to see the seasons simplified and the amount of special permits given reduced. Animals in Washington are very pressured pretty much from August through December just by hunters. I know this affects the sport of it for me, I hate to see a herd of deer running over a ridge with there jaws dragging on the ground.....
Another thing I’ve also considered, have you ever seen a game warden out during poaching hours? Aka after dark, days after or before a season opens, etc. I know I haven’t. Shouldn’t the game wardens be out more in force when they know illegal things are going on vs opening day at 9 am? As has been stated here, poaching season opens when the ethical hunters season ends.
Others here have wanted suffer penalties for poaching. One, they have to be caught and so far for the most part they aren’t being caught. Two, you have to distinguish trophy poachers vs accidental poachers vs meat poachers. It isn’t a clear line.
Bottom line is there are some darn good poachers out there. Poaching season is open 365 days a year with no limit to shooting hours nor limits on points or quantity. There isn’t enough time out there to catch them nor resources.
I would highly suggest simplified seasons with less confusion between weapons during time periods. More targeted patrolling. Higher rewards for information leading to successful arrests.
Post by: Goshawk on December 23, 2019, 09:07:39 PM
Until we get a judge on the bench who is an avid hunter it will continue to be that way.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on December 27, 2019, 12:55:36 PM
I ran video and electronics on numerous decoys when I worked in Wyoming. The first several were close to town, and compliance was high; I started getting a warm fuzzy about how legal and ethical the hunters behaved. Then I worked several that were in very remote areas - many miles from the nearest small town, often more than an hour drive after leaving the pavement - and the reverse occurred. One particularly memorable day in the Bighorn Mountains, we started around noon on a Sunday midseason. While half of the vehicles passing didn't see the decoy (a standing 4 point mule deer full body, 100 yards from the road, broadside but not silhouetted), everyone who saw the decoy shot it illegally. After sunset we moved it to where headlights would shine it on a bend in the road, with reflective tape on the eyes - and everyone who saw it shot the decoy, until we finished up around 1 am. At the time, it was a record for the region for the most big game violations written in a single day.
A very small percentage of us are deliberate poachers - heading out with every intention of taking an animal illegally. These are the rut and winter range poachers, the spotlighters, etc. Usually these cases start out as a tip from someone tired of their activity - a fair number of the tips come from relatives, coworkers and wives and girlfriends. These cases often take months or years to build. These serial poachers can put a severe dent in a vulnerable local resource.
Thrill killers are the dipsticks who tend to go on sprees with .22 rifles, and shoot and leave to rot anything they see. They usually get caught eventually. They tend to be either high school boys, or adult male losers using mind-altering substances.
Nobody knows how many actual meat poachers there are who are genuinely feeding the family. The consensus of officers I've worked with is detection rates on them are the lowest of all poacher categories, and they rarely get caught. I've known of two occasions where officers did have opportunity to bust "subsistence" poachers and chose not to do so (nether was in Washington). In both cases they were families in dire straights literally struggling to survive, no possible way of paying fines, and would be destroyed by having a parent in jail. In one of those cases, the officer purchased $100 groceries and delivered it to the family, along with a list of assistance resources they could obtain legally.
Post by: KFhunter on December 27, 2019, 01:05:20 PM
Post by: bornhunter on December 27, 2019, 01:40:06 PM
What's this "us" you're talking about :chuckle:
Post by: idaho guy on December 27, 2019, 03:23:17 PM
I will say this anytime I see certain thing I assume poaching.
Coming or going from the woods once it's dark or early mourning before light.
Are you kidding me wuth that? Im always going into the woods well before daylight and/or coming out well after dark.
:yeah: me too I almost always go in and come out in the dark. And I never wear hunters orange when I hunt Idaho buts that's legal for Idaho
Post by: idaho guy on December 27, 2019, 03:38:37 PM
2nd poached deer, this one a doe dumped in the middle of a county road. Buck only area. Passed it and took pictures this morning, just called it in and no one else has even reported it. 6 hours on a pretty “busy” road. This is why people would think poaching isn’t as high because no one reports it and no one talks about it.
I would think that's roadkill someone salvaged before I screamed poached :dunno:
Post by: dilleytech on December 28, 2019, 02:57:56 PM
2nd poached deer, this one a doe dumped in the middle of a county road. Buck only area. Passed it and took pictures this morning, just called it in and no one else has even reported it. 6 hours on a pretty “busy” road. This is why people would think poaching isn’t as high because no one reports it and no one talks about it.
Or a doe killed in a unit legal to do so and left by someone lazy living in that unit.
I would think that's roadkill someone salvaged before I screamed poached :dunno:
Post by: Tracker0721 on December 28, 2019, 04:52:49 PM