Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: vandeman17 on December 26, 2019, 11:07:06 AM

Title: CWD question
Post by: vandeman17 on December 26, 2019, 11:07:06 AM: My uncle and I were talking about CWD and the rules for bringing game back into the state. As we were discussing it, we started questioning what exactly is accomplished by not bringing bones or brains back into the state. Everything I have read says that it is transmitted animal to animal so how exactly would an animal come in contact with the bones or brain matter that is discarded by either the butcher or the hunter when they process their meat? Are they just being super extra cautious? What is the likelihood that a deer, elk, moose etc would come into contact with a bone or brain matter what was discarded and most likely ending up in a landfill or dog chew treat? Just trying to wrap my head around the logic. I am all about doing anything we can to try to limit the spread of this horrible disease so my inquiry has nothing to do with that.
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 26, 2019, 11:35:03 AM: Cwd prions can survive for extended periods of time within the environment without a "host". So basically you toss your chapped deer head and carcass out when you get home, brain leaks out onto the soil and grass. Deer comes along and takes a bite, and can potentially be infected.
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: Tiger01 on December 26, 2019, 11:38:47 AM: There is research that says the prions can survive years in the soil and even transfer into certain plants and grasses, which can then be eaten by a deer/elk/moose and then they can get infected. I believe they say it can last in the soil for up to a decade, but don’t quote me on that. So essentially a person could dump a skull,spine of an infected animal in a landfill, in their back forty, or on public land and potentially infect that area.
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: kentrek on December 26, 2019, 11:40:20 AM: I was told by CO game warden that it's in the meat aswell so seems like a lost cause... :dunno:

Maybe that's why it's still spreading regardless of bone restrictions :dunno:
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: vandeman17 on December 26, 2019, 11:46:50 AM: Quote from: Karl Blanchard on December 26, 2019, 11:35:03 AM
Cwd prions can survive for extended periods of time within the environment without a "host". So basically you toss your chapped deer head and carcass out when you get home, brain leaks out onto the soil and grass. Deer comes along and takes a bite, and can potentially be infected.

That is pretty crazy and makes more sense. I have no problem taking any precaution we can to try to limit the spread but the geek in me always likes to know the why as well
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 26, 2019, 11:59:24 AM: Quote from: kentrek on December 26, 2019, 11:40:20 AM
I was told by CO game warden that it's in the meat aswell so seems like a lost cause... :dunno:

Maybe that's why it's still spreading regardless of bone restrictions :dunno:
it spreads through fluids (like blood) so I would assume that would include meat. Obviously the big spreader and uncontrollable part is animal to animal contact. If a guy is bringing home boned out meat and a clean skull there isn't anything to have to run out and dumb like leg bones, rib cages, capped skulls, etc.
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: boneaddict on December 26, 2019, 12:27:10 PM: Speaking of CWD, did any of you see South Dakotas elk thinning they are going to do? They are going to have trained volunteers harvest some elk that are overcrowding a national park over there. I dont think they even have a non resident elk hunt so not sure if non residents can volunteer to help cull. Each animal harvested to thin the herd will be tested for CWD
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: cbond3318 on December 26, 2019, 12:33:13 PM: https://www.kotatv.com/content/news/Volunteers-needed-to-trim-Wind-Caves-elk-herd-566435731.html

Residents only.
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: boneaddict on December 26, 2019, 12:56:01 PM: Thank you for adding that link!

I commented in my usual sarcastic way. "Introduce a few wolves....no more elk, no more CWD, problem solved"
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: nwwanderer on December 26, 2019, 01:20:58 PM: Prion associated maladies are not will understood. Autoimmune only, maybe, spread from deer to deer, likely not even similar to a virus, animal to human, often argued not understood, infectious any in way shape or form, do not really know.
Considering that Wisconsin is CWD central in deer and they have a huge wolf problem, spreading the wolves around does not seem like a good idea. Some researchers argue that predators spread the CWD. For the most part, a species specific problem, including humans.
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: boneaddict on December 26, 2019, 01:24:24 PM: Our head Microbiologist came back from some seminar recently and he had to stop by and tell me that he learned. "Even hard boiling your hunting knife for 10 minutes doesnt even kill or inactivate the prions." Tough little buggers
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: kentrek on December 26, 2019, 01:28:11 PM: Quote from: Karl Blanchard on December 26, 2019, 11:59:24 AM
Quote from: kentrek on December 26, 2019, 11:40:20 AM
I was told by CO game warden that it's in the meat aswell so seems like a lost cause... :dunno:

Maybe that's why it's still spreading regardless of bone restrictions :dunno:
it spreads through fluids (like blood) so I would assume that would include meat. Obviously the big spreader and uncontrollable part is animal to animal contact. If a guy is bringing home boned out meat and a clean skull there isn't anything to have to run out and dumb like leg bones, rib cages, capped skulls, etc.

Another fun fact is the same officer told me that they were able to transfer the disease to monkeys via only feeding them the meat....

So if it's in the meat, & most meat gets retrimmed...and alot of trim goes to the birds....

Idk...somthing to think about I guess
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 26, 2019, 02:17:15 PM: Quote from: kentrek on December 26, 2019, 01:28:11 PM
Quote from: Karl Blanchard on December 26, 2019, 11:59:24 AM
Quote from: kentrek on December 26, 2019, 11:40:20 AM
I was told by CO game warden that it's in the meat aswell so seems like a lost cause... :dunno:

Maybe that's why it's still spreading regardless of bone restrictions :dunno:
it spreads through fluids (like blood) so I would assume that would include meat. Obviously the big spreader and uncontrollable part is animal to animal contact. If a guy is bringing home boned out meat and a clean skull there isn't anything to have to run out and dumb like leg bones, rib cages, capped skulls, etc.

Another fun fact is the same officer told me that they were able to transfer the disease to monkeys via only feeding them the meat....

So if it's in the meat, & most meat gets retrimmed...and alot of trim goes to the birds....

Idk...somthing to think about I guess
right, but a handful of trim getting tossed in the trash is less likely to infect another ungulate vs dumping spinal fluid and brains back onto the landscape. The grim fact is its impossible to completely isolate it so game departments have to come up with reasonable regulations to minimize the spread. It's basically a s#*t sandwich with no bread.

Lot of good info here and I encourage anyone and everyone to read up a bit. I know up until last year when it became mandatory to get your heads checked, I knew almost nothing about cwd. Talking with some bio's got me pretty curious and concerned about it. Not necessarily about my own safety but for the future of mule deer.

http://cwd-info.org/faq/
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: vandeman17 on December 26, 2019, 02:25:52 PM: Quote from: Karl Blanchard on December 26, 2019, 02:17:15 PM
Quote from: kentrek on December 26, 2019, 01:28:11 PM
Quote from: Karl Blanchard on December 26, 2019, 11:59:24 AM
Quote from: kentrek on December 26, 2019, 11:40:20 AM
I was told by CO game warden that it's in the meat aswell so seems like a lost cause... :dunno:

Maybe that's why it's still spreading regardless of bone restrictions :dunno:
it spreads through fluids (like blood) so I would assume that would include meat. Obviously the big spreader and uncontrollable part is animal to animal contact. If a guy is bringing home boned out meat and a clean skull there isn't anything to have to run out and dumb like leg bones, rib cages, capped skulls, etc.

Another fun fact is the same officer told me that they were able to transfer the disease to monkeys via only feeding them the meat....

So if it's in the meat, & most meat gets retrimmed...and alot of trim goes to the birds....

Idk...somthing to think about I guess
right, but a handful of trim getting tossed in the trash is less likely to infect another ungulate vs dumping spinal fluid and brains back onto the landscape. The grim fact is its impossible to completely isolate it so game departments have to come up with reasonable regulations to minimize the spread. It's basically a s#*t sandwich with no bread.

Lot of good info here and I encourage anyone and everyone to read up a bit. I know up until last year when it became mandatory to get your heads checked, I knew almost nothing about cwd. Talking with some bio's got me pretty curious and concerned about it. Not necessarily about my own safety but for the future of mule deer.

http://cwd-info.org/faq/

Thanks for the link I am 100% in the same boat, just a year behind you. :tup:
Title: Re: CWD question
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on December 26, 2019, 02:27:47 PM: The prohibition on skulls and bones is to minimize introducing prions to the environment and infecting animals in a geographic location where the disease does not exist. Bones are the items most often dumped in the environment after a carcass is processed, so the prohibition on bringing bones into the state other than cleaned skull plates. Prions can persist in the environment for years and are incredibly hardy. As Boneaddict's microbiologist reported, boiling doesn't destroy them - neither does cooking to well done (Prions are destroyed at approx. 900F, basically incineration).

Primates (monkeys) have developed CWD from the introduction of infected brain tissue from mule deer directly into the brain of the monkeys. The same route of transmission has also produced infections in livestock and scavengers. Some primates fed CWD prion-containing diets have also developed CWD, however other species fed the same diet have not.

Here's the current CDC statement on CWD transmission https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cwd/transmission.html