Post by: wolfbait on December 28, 2019, 09:26:03 PM
https://www.mensjournal.com/adventure/hunter-surrounded-wolves-acts-self-defense-one-charges?fbclid=IwAR1SERspk0ctmJN2cBwAF4NZ8HafVL14PzeIVstxror7SPZ2sd-KbutORW0
Post by: lokidog on December 28, 2019, 09:31:09 PM
Why? They have not been taught that people are not good to be around. To them, we are just prey or another predator to compete with by removing us from their territory.
Post by: 444Marlin on December 28, 2019, 10:09:32 PM
I saw one in NE Oregon last year, and he/she had absolutely no fear of me. Which is unlike many of the black bear encounters I have had where they are typically running the other direction.
Post by: bigskyhounds on December 29, 2019, 04:53:36 AM
From the article... "They will usually avoid humans and leave the area when they see, hear, or smell people close by...."
Why? They have not been taught that people are not good to be around. To them, we are just prey or another predator to compete with by removing us from their territory.
Exactly! All of the wolves I saw in MT before they authorized a hunt had little to no concern I was there. After management began it was a totally different story. Our wildlife agencies shouldn't be telling people lies when we haven't had much experience with these wolves on our landscape.
At what point would you feel threatened, or at what point does someone else feel threatend? Do they have a minimum distance a wolf bear or cougar can be justifiably shot in self defense?
Post by: boneaddict on December 29, 2019, 06:23:40 AM
Post by: fowl smacker on December 29, 2019, 07:01:36 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on December 29, 2019, 08:13:55 AM
From the article... "They will usually avoid humans and leave the area when they see, hear, or smell people close by...."I think the bold is the key part. Any predator, hunted or not, is very capable of killing a human and every so often they will. The more common behavior is to avoid humans, which is what the quote says...if that were not true there would be many people killed per day by predators roaming the woods and rural areas.
Why? They have not been taught that people are not good to be around. To them, we are just prey or another predator to compete with by removing us from their territory.
Post by: bornhunter on December 29, 2019, 08:51:18 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 29, 2019, 09:13:50 AM
Post by: bornhunter on December 29, 2019, 09:16:32 AM
What it will take is some kid to be attacked and killed. Even then they will say the animal was malnutritioned or had a disease. Why wait until it charges.:yeah:
Post by: buckfvr on December 29, 2019, 11:07:16 AM
Post by: LDennis24 on December 29, 2019, 12:10:35 PM
From the article... "They will usually avoid humans and leave the area when they see, hear, or smell people close by...."I think the bold is the key part. Any predator, hunted or not, is very capable of killing a human and every so often they will. The more common behavior is to avoid humans, which is what the quote says...if that were not true there would be many people killed per day by predators roaming the woods and rural areas.
Why? They have not been taught that people are not good to be around. To them, we are just prey or another predator to compete with by removing us from their territory.
Actually most predators will retreat and then circle back from a better vantage point to survey or decide if it's worth chasing the subject to get a meal. Humans walk upright so it makes us appear much more formidable than we might actually be.
Post by: HighlandLofts on December 29, 2019, 03:08:13 PM
Post by: wolfbait on December 29, 2019, 09:11:35 PM
From the article... "They will usually avoid humans and leave the area when they see, hear, or smell people close by...."
Why? They have not been taught that people are not good to be around. To them, we are just prey or another predator to compete with by removing us from their territory.
Methow Valley Wolf
Post by: bornhunter on December 29, 2019, 09:30:23 PM
From the article... "They will usually avoid humans and leave the area when they see, hear, or smell people close by...."
Why? They have not been taught that people are not good to be around. To them, we are just prey or another predator to compete with by removing us from their territory.
Methow Valley Wolf
That thing is in someones backyard almost! That is amazing. Looks like a self defense distance to me.
Post by: lokidog on December 29, 2019, 09:48:18 PM
From the article... "They will usually avoid humans and leave the area when they see, hear, or smell people close by...."I think the bold is the key part. Any predator, hunted or not, is very capable of killing a human and every so often they will. The more common behavior is to avoid humans, which is what the quote says...if that were not true there would be many people killed per day by predators roaming the woods and rural areas.
Why? They have not been taught that people are not good to be around. To them, we are just prey or another predator to compete with by removing us from their territory.
SMH You just don't get it do you? They have no reason to be afraid of us. Is it because we are taller or larger? I think a moose beats us there, or even an elk. As they encounter more and more people with no negative consequences, how are they supposed to learn to avoid us? They don't! It is the same with cougars, when hunting with dogs was allowed, the cougars that were not killed, lots of females and juvenile males, were educated that people and dogs were not good to be around. There seem to be many more human-cougar encounters since hound hunting was prohibited. It will only get worse with the wolves in populated areas until there is some push back.
Post by: huntnnw on December 29, 2019, 10:02:37 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on December 29, 2019, 10:09:00 PM
Nice.
Post by: wolfbait on December 29, 2019, 10:23:25 PM
Folks are seeing wolves closer to their homes now, it's worse then when the Methow had that sudden wolf "migration" in 2010.
Talk to a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago over in Lower Beaver cr, he walks his dog up the road towards the Finally canyon rd, he said he was coming back and there sat a wolf above the road, watching him. He's looking into getting a gun that holds a few more rounds then six.
Wolves tend to encourage gun ownership in rural communities....
Post by: Dan-o on December 29, 2019, 10:36:34 PM
Last week I saw a wolf trotting down Poorman Cr road, I pulled up to where he dunked off the road, and there he stood about twenty ft off the road, he parallel the road for about fifty yards before trotting into the timber 40 yards behind a house.
Folks are seeing wolves closer to their homes now, it's worse then when the Methow had that sudden wolf "migration" in 2010.
Talk to a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago over in Lower Beaver cr, he walks his dog up the road towards the Finally canyon rd, he said he was coming back and there sat a wolf above the road, watching him. He's looking into getting a gun that holds a few more rounds then six.
Wolves tend to encourage gun ownership in rural communities....
That's amazing.
I believe you, but man I would not want to be unarmed walking my dog with a wolf looking at us.
Post by: grimace on December 30, 2019, 12:18:25 AM
Last year my son and I had a run in with wolves during the 215 late archery hunt . We were working our way around a mountain side and we heard wolves howling about 400-500 yards out and below us. Froze in our tracks, accessed the direction of the howling and changed coarse as best we could given the terrain. Since they were below us I didn't put too much thought into it except we should start cutting up hill to gain more distance from them. As we were going around the mountain, maybe 10 minutes later we were walking just above some thicker timber I heard some growling directly below us 15-20 yards out. Hair stood up on the back of my neck, as I'm scanning for it I could see the direction and the tree I suspected it was behind but I wasn't able to put eyes on it. At that point I drew my pea shooter ( really wishing I had more than 5 rnds at the time) Then another one growled from behind use. My son and I stood back to back scanning for a charge, the stand off probably only lasted a few minutes but it felt like eternity. During that time each of them growled several times, I thought one was going to charge for sure, then a few branches broke and all was quiet. They were gone. At that point we looked at each other gathered our thoughts and headed up to higher ground. We never heard or saw them again that day. I suspected they had a fresh kill near by, and were protecting it. But we could have very well been that fresh kill they had in mind..
I have rehashed those moments since then, at the time I only had 5 shots if one did charge so I wasn't going to waist it on a warning shot.
G
Post by: bigskyhounds on December 30, 2019, 06:03:05 AM
From the article... "They will usually avoid humans and leave the area when they see, hear, or smell people close by...."I think the bold is the key part. Any predator, hunted or not, is very capable of killing a human and every so often they will. The more common behavior is to avoid humans, which is what the quote says...if that were not true there would be many people killed per day by predators roaming the woods and rural areas.
Why? They have not been taught that people are not good to be around. To them, we are just prey or another predator to compete with by removing us from their territory.
SMH You just don't get it do you? They have no reason to be afraid of us. Is it because we are taller or larger? I think a moose beats us there, or even an elk. As they encounter more and more people with no negative consequences, how are they supposed to learn to avoid us? They don't! It is the same with cougars, when hunting with dogs was allowed, the cougars that were not killed, lots of females and juvenile males, were educated that people and dogs were not good to be around. There seem to be many more human-cougar encounters since hound hunting was prohibited. It will only get worse with the wolves in populated areas until there is some push back.
But no one's done a scientific study on this to know if that's actually the case :bash:
We don't need a study to show us the public would be safer. Even if they just approved the pursuit season, that the wdfw can't figure out, it would help a lot.
I hunted lions in northern Alberta probably about 12 years ago. The houndsman I hunted with told me they never had issues with wolves and their dogs. because they were hunted and trapped, those wolves have a fear of humans and associate dogs with people there is always the possibility of an attack but when predators are managed and controlled you don't see the issues we are faced with today.
The main predator in Montana that causes problems is the grizzly bear. Main reason has to be there's little to no management of this predator.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 30, 2019, 06:20:44 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on December 30, 2019, 06:37:44 AM
There are some negative consequences and interactions with humans even in "unhunted" areas like WA. My point is there are hundreds of wolves and thousands of cougars in wa...if the quote above about usually avoiding humans was not true there would be fatalities just about every day.From the article... "They will usually avoid humans and leave the area when they see, hear, or smell people close by...."I think the bold is the key part. Any predator, hunted or not, is very capable of killing a human and every so often they will. The more common behavior is to avoid humans, which is what the quote says...if that were not true there would be many people killed per day by predators roaming the woods and rural areas.
Why? They have not been taught that people are not good to be around. To them, we are just prey or another predator to compete with by removing us from their territory.
SMH You just don't get it do you? They have no reason to be afraid of us. Is it because we are taller or larger? I think a moose beats us there, or even an elk. As they encounter more and more people with no negative consequences, how are they supposed to learn to avoid us? They don't! It is the same with cougars, when hunting with dogs was allowed, the cougars that were not killed, lots of females and juvenile males, were educated that people and dogs were not good to be around. There seem to be many more human-cougar encounters since hound hunting was prohibited. It will only get worse with the wolves in populated areas until there is some push back.
Post by: zwickeyman on December 30, 2019, 07:40:43 AM
Can you at least admit the fact that there has been more attacks/conflicts with Wolves and Cougars in the last 10 years than in the previous 80
There are facts to back that up that even you cant argue
Do you believe these will slowly diminish or will they increase?
Please answer honestly with out political speak
Post by: KFhunter on December 30, 2019, 07:59:41 AM
I'm not surprised by this at all and I think you're going to see more of it in the future, if they don't have anyone hunting them why would or should they fear us. Wishful thinking I know, but I really hope some sort of season will happen in the near future before someone gets hurt or worse.I suspect they knew you were there well before the howling started, then you heard them gathering the troops in a rally.
Last year my son and I had a run in with wolves during the 215 late archery hunt . We were working our way around a mountain side and we heard wolves howling about 400-500 yards out and below us. Froze in our tracks, accessed the direction of the howling and changed coarse as best we could given the terrain. Since they were below us I didn't put too much thought into it except we should start cutting up hill to gain more distance from them. As we were going around the mountain, maybe 10 minutes later we were walking just above some thicker timber I heard some growling directly below us 15-20 yards out. Hair stood up on the back of my neck, as I'm scanning for it I could see the direction and the tree I suspected it was behind but I wasn't able to put eyes on it. At that point I drew my pea shooter ( really wishing I had more than 5 rnds at the time) Then another one growled from behind use. My son and I stood back to back scanning for a charge, the stand off probably only lasted a few minutes but it felt like eternity. During that time each of them growled several times, I thought one was going to charge for sure, then a few branches broke and all was quiet. They were gone. At that point we looked at each other gathered our thoughts and headed up to higher ground. We never heard or saw them again that day. I suspected they had a fresh kill near by, and were protecting it. But we could have very well been that fresh kill they had in mind..
I have rehashed those moments since then, at the time I only had 5 shots if one did charge so I wasn't going to waist it on a warning shot.
G
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: KFhunter on December 30, 2019, 08:03:09 AM
What negative interactions? That half eaten sammich a wood cutter tossed in the brush? There's so little poaching its a non-factor, is that what your hinting at?There are some negative consequences and interactions with humans even in "unhunted" areas like WA. My point is there are hundreds of wolves and thousands of cougars in wa...if the quote above about usually avoiding humans was not true there would be fatalities just about every day.From the article... "They will usually avoid humans and leave the area when they see, hear, or smell people close by...."I think the bold is the key part. Any predator, hunted or not, is very capable of killing a human and every so often they will. The more common behavior is to avoid humans, which is what the quote says...if that were not true there would be many people killed per day by predators roaming the woods and rural areas.
Why? They have not been taught that people are not good to be around. To them, we are just prey or another predator to compete with by removing us from their territory.
SMH You just don't get it do you? They have no reason to be afraid of us. Is it because we are taller or larger? I think a moose beats us there, or even an elk. As they encounter more and more people with no negative consequences, how are they supposed to learn to avoid us? They don't! It is the same with cougars, when hunting with dogs was allowed, the cougars that were not killed, lots of females and juvenile males, were educated that people and dogs were not good to be around. There seem to be many more human-cougar encounters since hound hunting was prohibited. It will only get worse with the wolves in populated areas until there is some push back.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 30, 2019, 08:06:09 AM
Post by: Hockey21 on December 30, 2019, 08:21:46 AM
Last week I saw a wolf trotting down Poorman Cr road, I pulled up to where he dunked off the road, and there he stood about twenty ft off the road, he parallel the road for about fifty yards before trotting into the timber 40 yards behind a house.
Folks are seeing wolves closer to their homes now, it's worse then when the Methow had that sudden wolf "migration" in 2010.
Talk to a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago over in Lower Beaver cr, he walks his dog up the road towards the Finally canyon rd, he said he was coming back and there sat a wolf above the road, watching him. He's looking into getting a gun that holds a few more rounds then six.
Wolves tend to encourage gun ownership in rural communities....
A couple months ago I was up by Finally Mtn and there were wolves howling across the canyon from me. It's creepy when you know they're close. More so when you hear them or see them.
Post by: grimace on December 30, 2019, 08:55:38 AM
I'm not surprised by this at all and I think you're going to see more of it in the future, if they don't have anyone hunting them why would or should they fear us. Wishful thinking I know, but I really hope some sort of season will happen in the near future before someone gets hurt or worse.I suspect they knew you were there well before the howling started, then you heard them gathering the troops in a rally.
Last year my son and I had a run in with wolves during the 215 late archery hunt . We were working our way around a mountain side and we heard wolves howling about 400-500 yards out and below us. Froze in our tracks, accessed the direction of the howling and changed coarse as best we could given the terrain. Since they were below us I didn't put too much thought into it except we should start cutting up hill to gain more distance from them. As we were going around the mountain, maybe 10 minutes later we were walking just above some thicker timber I heard some growling directly below us 15-20 yards out. Hair stood up on the back of my neck, as I'm scanning for it I could see the direction and the tree I suspected it was behind but I wasn't able to put eyes on it. At that point I drew my pea shooter ( really wishing I had more than 5 rnds at the time) Then another one growled from behind use. My son and I stood back to back scanning for a charge, the stand off probably only lasted a few minutes but it felt like eternity. During that time each of them growled several times, I thought one was going to charge for sure, then a few branches broke and all was quiet. They were gone. At that point we looked at each other gathered our thoughts and headed up to higher ground. We never heard or saw them again that day. I suspected they had a fresh kill near by, and were protecting it. But we could have very well been that fresh kill they had in mind..
I have rehashed those moments since then, at the time I only had 5 shots if one did charge so I wasn't going to waist it on a warning shot.
G
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
That's very possible, most of the videos I have seen seem to have no less than 4 in a pack . I'm just glad it didn't escalate.
G
Post by: jstone on December 30, 2019, 09:00:40 AM
It’s called survival. If it’s close it dies. No matter here or any other state
Not waiting to get bit cause some dumb a?? Politicians agenda.
Post by: KFhunter on December 30, 2019, 09:02:19 AM
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Post by: buckfvr on December 30, 2019, 09:16:37 AM
I have to admit, when I was in Idaho hunting this last deer season I was sleeping 5 miles in by myself. I was nervous all night. I saw some wolf tracks that where huge.
It’s called survival. If it’s close it dies. No matter here or any other state
Not waiting to get bit cause some dumb a?? Politicians agenda.
No aggressive predator will be tolerated, neither will I wait to be bit or worse.
Post by: wolfbait on December 30, 2019, 09:28:50 AM
The more we protect these diseased animals, the more comfortable they'll be finding their food around humans. It's only a matter of time before someone is attacked and/or killed by wolves.
Then there's the deer hanging around town, and crossing back an forth between homes, town dogs feasting on the deer that are being hit on the roads:
Hydatid disease does not discriminate between people who live in the country and those in the suburbs. Any dog can be infected, as Val says, “The primary danger comes from dogs which have fed on infected gut piles. Also from farm and ranch dogs that have found an infected dead elk and fed on its innards. Since in winter elk will seek refuge in suburbs and hamlets, any resident dog finding dead elk is likely to get infected, and infect its owners in turn. In short, any hunting dog or companion dog that finds a dead deer or elk or an infected gut-pile will bring the disease into the home and to the neighborhood of its owner. And that will include school yards. There is also a real danger to ranch families on whose lands infected elk and deer gather to spend the winter and who crowd in about buildings to escape the marauding wolves.”
http://rangefire.us/2019/12/11/the-destruction-of-nature-why-colorados-push-for-wolves-is-an-appalling-idea/?fbclid=IwAR2nsTyhXgVGdVGbMj5uz7WdWgfdXovTW7vP3UUWJOPCus9ZDZCPJTjK1KU
Post by: idahohuntr on December 30, 2019, 07:14:38 PM
IdahohunterI don't have any data in front of me - but I would agree with your assertion that there have been more wolf conflicts in the last 10 than the previous 80 in WA state. Wolf numbers in WA state have gone from hardly any to hundreds - and the human population has also increased substantially. Cougars are probably at all time highs as well.
Can you at least admit the fact that there has been more attacks/conflicts with Wolves and Cougars in the last 10 years than in the previous 80
There are facts to back that up that even you cant argue
Do you believe these will slowly diminish or will they increase?
Please answer honestly with out political speak
I don't see conflicts or attacks diminishing given the politics, people, and predator management in this state. Will they increase substantially...I doubt it.
Again, read carefully what I've posted...predators are dangerous, they can and will kill humans. That is not contradictory to state officials telling people predators usually avoid humans. If they didn't, there would be 100 fatal attacks every weekend of hunting season. I don't understand why some folks have to complain when wildlife officials give factual information regarding the dangers of wildlife. We don't need to exaggerate about predators - as hunters I think we lose credibility with the public when we do so.
Let me know if I failed to answer your questions.
Post by: KFhunter on December 30, 2019, 09:21:46 PM
Only thing I disagree with, I think it will keep increasing
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Post by: zwickeyman on December 30, 2019, 09:31:20 PM
Thanks for the response
I do agree with you KFhunter, its going to increase.
Post by: bornhunter on December 30, 2019, 09:36:12 PM
I have to admit, when I was in Idaho hunting this last deer season I was sleeping 5 miles in by myself. I was nervous all night. I saw some wolf tracks that where huge.
It’s called survival. If it’s close it dies. No matter here or any other state
Not waiting to get bit cause some dumb a?? Politicians agenda.
Now we're talkin! :tup: