Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: whacker1 on April 06, 2009, 01:25:25 PM

Title: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: whacker1 on April 06, 2009, 01:25:25 PM: I need some help - I bought Nosler Brass for my new 300 RUM. Started loading yesterday, and was trying to determine proper seeting depth. Max length is supposed to be 3.6". Almost every round was bulging at the Shoulder before we even got close to 3.6". Any suggestions at why this would happen? I know this can happen in compressed loads, but we weren't anywhere near the area of compressed loads.
Some extra info.
brass is new
gun has never been shot.

I have done lots of reloading for my .270 and several calibers for my father-in-law including 30-06, 6mm, 338, 223, etc. I am completely baffled as to what could be causing this situation - any help would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: Da stump on April 06, 2009, 01:33:55 PM: Check your die and try to bring down the setting on the shoulder. use a factory round to set it. Be sure to caliper your bullet before and after to make sure you are not changing the shoulder length.
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: Ray on April 06, 2009, 01:43:35 PM: Here's a guess - back off the die where it meets the press as in unscrew it from the press maybe a turn. To compensate for the change on the OAL then screw down on the die part that presses the bullet tip.
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: whacker1 on April 06, 2009, 01:51:58 PM: Ray - Won't backing off the die in the press mean that the brass has more room to move around inside the die? I was thinking of going the other way to get the brass further in the die before the bullet started seeting. This is all new to me - never ever had a problem like this.
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: Ray on April 06, 2009, 01:55:24 PM: My guess is that you are crushing the die by having the brass too far into the die. Image below. It may not be the case but that is my guess.

If it is the other way around then adjust it accordingly (opposite and which I have done before too). Just load one after making the adjustment. Then see if it fits in the chamber. Make sure to look and feel for the bulges first. Look for markings or feel for difficulties while or after chambering it.

You just need to find the right spot is all.
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: whacker1 on April 06, 2009, 02:01:07 PM: I see your point. I was thinking the other way. Crushing the brass, because the tapered brass wasn't far enough into the die and there was room when the bullet was pressed for the shoulder to bulge.

I think I am going to end up trying both ways. Back it way out and try that way & the opposite screw it way in to make sure the brass is hitting the shoulder rest inside the die.

Is it possible that I got a bad set of dies?
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: Ray on April 06, 2009, 02:02:22 PM: I doubt it. I think you just need to find the sweet spot. It could be exactly what you think it is (meaning the tip of the bullet being pressed too far).
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: whacker1 on April 06, 2009, 02:12:42 PM: Thanks for the help - I will be playing with all day Saturday. I just don't want to run the risk of ruining lots of expensive brass.
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: Huntbear on April 06, 2009, 02:54:09 PM: How I set my seating dies.

I put a shell into the shell holder and run the ram all the way up. I then, slowly screw the die down till I "feel" it hit the brass(and you can feel it). Then I lower the ram, tighten my set screw on the die. Put a bullet in the case, and slowly raise it up again into the die. I then slowly screw down the seater plug till I "feel" it hit the bullet. I lower the ram, turn down the seater plug a couple of turns, and seat the bullet. Pull the cartridge out, and measure it. If it needs to go deeper (which it always does) I screw it down a turn or two, and seat the bullet deeper, and remeasure. Continue this until you get the overall length you want. I then mark my settings on the threads with a little white paint, or anything that will not rub off.
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: whacker1 on April 06, 2009, 02:59:49 PM: Thank You - It sounds like from a few folks now that I have the dies to deep in the press. I will back it out and play with the seating stem until I get the desired result. If I still have problems with the brass, I will probably be back for more instruction. I have never had this problem with any other caliber/case. Never stop learning.
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: Stevo539 on April 06, 2009, 03:47:41 PM: I'm with Ray. I think that you're crimping the bullet too much. Usually shows up as a bulge just below the shoulder. Usually they won't chamber either. I seat the bullet in one step then crimp in a second operation. Others skip the crimp alltogether. What type of rifle are you loading for? Bolt rifles typically don't need a crimp (I still do though). Semi-autos and tubular magazines have more need for crimps as the bullets are banging into each other in the tube magazine and are being pushed into the chamber very forcefully in the autoloader.

To seat separately, back the seat/crimp die way out so you're not crimping at all and adjust the seater screw to get the right overall length. Next back the seater screw way out and screw the crimp die back in. It doesn't take much for the crimp. Just a touch of resistance on the handle. To get consistent crimps, make sure all your cases are the same length.

For a rough set up tool, keep a factory loaded round in the die box. Use it to rough set the seater and crimper. Then fine tune it from there.

Steve
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: whacker1 on April 06, 2009, 03:54:56 PM: Thanks - I believe you guys are correct - Bulging at the shoulder. I am getting consistent feedback on this issue, so it must mean something.....hmmm I wonder what that could be..... give me a second :bash: OK, I think I got it.

Remington 700 - yes bolt action.

I will give you some results next week - hopefully well put together rounds in addition to some targets.....not sure if I will be able to shoot on Easter. I am guessing the targets will have to wait.
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: 450mar on April 06, 2009, 09:05:54 PM: sounds like you do quite a bit of reloading so this is something you already know,but i will through it out there anyway.

are you lubing the shoulder and neck? if you are, you can dent the shoulder that way the lube acts as hydraulics and pushes the case down,i know this because i have done it.....just a thought
Title: Re: Crushing the Shoulder in Brass?
Post by: whacker1 on April 13, 2009, 08:35:28 AM: Thank you to everyone. The common suggestion was to back the seating die off from the shell holder a few turns. The issue of over crimping was accurate. Once i backed the die off, the bullets were seating properly.
Thanks again
Neil