Post by: goldenhtr on January 10, 2020, 11:31:25 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 10, 2020, 11:34:38 AM
Post by: birddogdad on January 10, 2020, 11:36:57 AM
Post by: Stein on January 10, 2020, 11:39:02 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 10, 2020, 12:00:46 PM
https://www.luckygunner.com/9-mm-147-gr-jhp-winchester-supreme-elite-bonded-20-rounds#geltest
Post by: goldenhtr on January 10, 2020, 12:02:40 PM
Are you worried about two or four legs? If the latter, I would find some hard cast as you will need all the penetration you can get with 9 mm.
I guess both if I really think about it. My son and I ride MC in the summer and have run into some how should I say SHADY individuals.
Post by: Stein on January 10, 2020, 12:23:23 PM
Now, I carry a .357 snub usually with hard cast figuring it would at least poke a small hole in a person and get decent penetration on a bear, much better than 9 mm. This would be 2nd choice with spray still being the go-to. I don't hunt in grizz areas, so it's more of a feel good thing for the most part.
I'm considering branching out to grizz areas and will likely pick up a 10mm as backup to the spray.
Anyway, more info than asked for but that is my philosophy.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 10, 2020, 12:28:17 PM
When I carried my 9mm, it was virtually exclusively for four leg problems and I used one of a couple of well known and proven rounds. Law enforcement actual shooting data as well as test data exists and is easy to find. I would use bear spray as my 1st choice if having animal problems.
Now, I carry a .357 snub usually with hard cast figuring it would at least poke a small hole in a person and get decent penetration on a bear, much better than 9 mm. This would be 2nd choice with spray still being the go-to. I don't hunt in grizz areas, so it's more of a feel good thing for the most part.
I'm considering branching out to grizz areas and will likely pick up a 10mm as backup to the spray.
Anyway, more info than asked for but that is my philosophy.
My woods carry is a .357 with HSM bear loads.👍
Post by: fowl smacker on January 10, 2020, 12:41:53 PM
Sig V-Crown
This round has actually shown through testing to be a fairly poor self defense round. If going through clothing, it really struggles to expand like it is supposed to. And I am a HUGE fan of Sig, just not this ammo. My current carry round is 124gr. Speer Gold Dot.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 10, 2020, 12:45:22 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 10, 2020, 01:23:41 PM
Sig V-Crown
This round has actually shown through testing to be a fairly poor self defense round. If going through clothing, it really struggles to expand like it is supposed to. And I am a HUGE fan of Sig, just not this ammo. My current carry round is 124gr. Speer Gold Dot.
124 grain XTP, here. If I remember right, they performed equivalently in penetration and expansion tests.
Post by: CP on January 10, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
Post by: luteai on January 12, 2020, 07:46:47 PM
Post by: Igor on January 12, 2020, 08:00:21 PM
Bear load 147 grain Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman. Fishing guide in Alaska killed a griz with this load. Good choice if you carry a 9mm. Cats Wolfs and bad guys many good options, look at the lucky gunner website for extensive ballistics testing.
If you are going to use 9mm for bear, just remember the old adage about filing the front sight off first !!
Post by: Bango skank on January 12, 2020, 08:02:18 PM
Bear load 147 grain Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman. Fishing guide in Alaska killed a griz with this load. Good choice if you carry a 9mm. Cats Wolfs and bad guys many good options, look at the lucky gunner website for extensive ballistics testing.
Fluke, absolute dumb luck. Just because it happened once doesnt mean you should bet your life on it happening again.
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on January 12, 2020, 08:13:44 PM
Post by: Cylvertip on January 12, 2020, 08:48:11 PM
The big brown bear that was killed by the fishing guide up in AK had one hard cast round completely pass through the bear, short of the hide on the far side. There have been some threads out with more write up on the hard cast and Underwood.
Post by: Bango skank on January 12, 2020, 08:52:21 PM
Underwood Xtreme Penetrator. All the penetration of hard cast plus a big wound channel.
The big brown bear that was killed by the fishing guide up in AN had one hard cast round completely pass through the bear, short of the hide on the far side. There have been some threads out with more write up on the hard cast and Underwood.
The bullets are made by lehigh defense, and as couple cartridge manufacturers use them. I actually killed a very large bodied whitetail with the underwood extreme penetrators, and i contacted them to discuss the penetration results. They said theyre supposed to be a compromise between hard cast and hollow point. Less penetration than hard cast, but bigger wound channel. More penetration than hollow point, but smaller wound channel. A happy median.
Theyre now also offering "xtreme hunter" in some cslibers. They look the same as extreme penetrator, but looks like more heavy fluting. The xtreme hunters are a lower weight than the xtreme penetrators, but reading underwoods description it sounds like theyre claiming equal or greater penetration than hard cast with those. Im skeptical, but havent tried them, so i cant say either wsy if that is a bogus claim or not.
Post by: KFhunter on January 12, 2020, 09:05:34 PM
Stick some hornady critical duty +p in it and go ride.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: grundy53 on January 12, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
All I'm gonna say is a 9mm is a helluva lot better than no millimeters.Agreed
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: kukusya on January 12, 2020, 09:24:42 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 12, 2020, 09:29:57 PM
Post by: Bango skank on January 12, 2020, 09:30:02 PM
So, what do you carry for protection against cougs? Thanks
A cougar tag :chuckle:
Really though imo a 9mm is perfectly fine when the bears are sleeping. When the bears are out snd sbout id go .357 or 10mm. If grizz country, .44. But thats just me. I shot one (small) male black bear with a .44 mag and it flipped him ass over tea kettle.
Post by: Stein on January 13, 2020, 09:03:57 AM
So, what do you carry for protection against cougs? Thanks
Poodle wrapped in tuna.
Post by: Cab on January 13, 2020, 10:08:21 AM
he's tested A LOT of 9mm ammo poke around his channel and you should be able to find some good info
Post by: C-Money on January 13, 2020, 10:24:36 AM
Post by: Cougartail on January 13, 2020, 11:09:07 AM
Bear load 147 grain Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman. Fishing guide in Alaska killed a griz with this load. Good choice if you carry a 9mm. Cats Wolfs and bad guys many good options, look at the lucky gunner website for extensive ballistics testing.
Fluke, absolute dumb luck. Just because it happened once doesnt mean you should bet your life on it happening again.
lol.. Phil Shoemaker (The shooter.) is a long time bear guide in SW Alaska and being a fishing guide is a sideline to his business. He knows more about killing large Brown Bears than 99.999999999% of humans on the planet.
Trust me.. it's no fluke. His daughter carries a 357 with hardcasts and is also a guide.
Post by: hunter399 on January 13, 2020, 11:23:49 AM
+1All I'm gonna say is a 9mm is a helluva lot better than no millimeters.Agreed
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: Bango skank on January 13, 2020, 02:15:04 PM
Bear load 147 grain Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman. Fishing guide in Alaska killed a griz with this load. Good choice if you carry a 9mm. Cats Wolfs and bad guys many good options, look at the lucky gunner website for extensive ballistics testing.
Fluke, absolute dumb luck. Just because it happened once doesnt mean you should bet your life on it happening again.
lol.. Phil Shoemaker (The shooter.) is a long time bear guide in SW Alaska and being a fishing guide is a sideline to his business. He knows more about killing large Brown Bears than 99.999999999% of humans on the planet.
Trust me.. it's no fluke. His daughter carries a 357 with hardcasts and is also a guide.
I remember reading about this right after it happened, and even he said that wasnt his choice of gun, but for whatever the reason was, its what he had at the time, so it was better than nothing. Yes killing a grizz with a 9mm is s fluke, or dumb luck, whatever you want to call it. But you go right ahead and carry a 9mm into grizz country, because it worked once, for one person.
I know a guy that was a guide on kodiak and the north gulf coast for a number of years, and a proxy hunter for natives, and still guides photographers on kodiak, just no longer guides hunters. You wouldnt catch him out there with a 9mm. But you do you. Have fun. As was said before, be sure to file the front sight off. :tup:
Post by: Badhabit on January 13, 2020, 02:58:41 PM
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
I personally have my 9mm mags filled with PNW Arms 115 grn for daily carry. Only problem is they don't make it anymore.
For critters I'll have Winchester 147 grn RangersBonded
Post by: Platensek-po on January 13, 2020, 03:09:22 PM
Post by: Cougartail on January 13, 2020, 04:54:41 PM
Bear load 147 grain Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman. Fishing guide in Alaska killed a griz with this load. Good choice if you carry a 9mm. Cats Wolfs and bad guys many good options, look at the lucky gunner website for extensive ballistics testing.
Fluke, absolute dumb luck. Just because it happened once doesnt mean you should bet your life on it happening again.
lol.. Phil Shoemaker (The shooter.) is a long time bear guide in SW Alaska and being a fishing guide is a sideline to his business. He knows more about killing large Brown Bears than 99.999999999% of humans on the planet.
Trust me.. it's no fluke. His daughter carries a 357 with hardcasts and is also a guide.
I remember reading about this right after it happened, and even he said that wasnt his choice of gun, but for whatever the reason was, its what he had at the time, so it was better than nothing. Yes killing a grizz with a 9mm is s fluke, or dumb luck, whatever you want to call it. But you go right ahead and carry a 9mm into grizz country, because it worked once, for one person.
I know a guy that was a guide on kodiak and the north gulf coast for a number of years, and a proxy hunter for natives, and still guides photographers on kodiak, just no longer guides hunters. You wouldnt catch him out there with a 9mm. But you do you. Have fun. As was said before, be sure to file the front sight off. :tup:
lol.. Without the "Hollywood version" of Brown/Grizzlies bears nobody would pay $20,000 to hunt them. I can always spot the newbies in Alaska.. always packing some monster firearm yet engaging in dangerous behaviors. I don't carry anything 95% of the time even when I had a Brown Bear living 100 yards out the back door.
I've been within 15 yards of Brown Bears over 20 times and have been charged twice. Still here and so are the sights on my firearms.
I'd feel perfectly safe with Phil and his 9mm unlike with some rookie with his 577 super magnum bear rifle. :chuckle:
Post by: Cougartail on January 13, 2020, 05:06:22 PM
Post by: Bango skank on January 13, 2020, 05:13:58 PM
..also someone has a list of 72 documented bear attacks where handguns were used for protection. The success rate was 96% and of the 5 times the 9mm was used all were successful. Five flukes? :o
How many of those actually resulted in a dead bear? Could be blanks making the same noise could have worked as well. Doesnt mean its an adequate caliber for brownies. I sure wouldnt stake my life on it.
Ive killed a black bear with a handgun (.44mag, 8ft), and an extremely large bodied whitetail(.357). Ive seen what hadguns can do. From the performance i got out of a 5" barrel .357 on a whitetail i sure as hell wouldnt dream of shooting a deer with a 9mm, let alone a pissed off grizz. But as i said before, if you want to bet your life on the absolute weakest possible sidearm that anybody may consider for grizz defense, have at it. A lot of deer have been killed with rimfire .22 also, doesnt mean its a reasonable round to have good odds of killing a deer quickly. And if i feel the need to shoot anything to protect my life... grizz, black bear, whatever, i dont want to wound it, hurt it, or scare it. I want to kill it. Right now. A dead critter is a harmless critter.
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 13, 2020, 05:31:36 PM
Acting the "right way" in bear country only gets you so far :twocents:
Post by: Bango skank on January 13, 2020, 05:36:19 PM
Post by: Dadofive on January 13, 2020, 05:38:20 PM
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pistols-or-handguns-used-to-defend-against-bear-attack-95-effective-63-cases/#axzz6Axs1CrTr
Post by: Bango skank on January 13, 2020, 05:43:00 PM
Here's a link after a 2 second internet search:
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/03/pistols-or-handguns-used-to-defend-against-bear-attack-95-effective-63-cases/#axzz6Axs1CrTr
And heres a link after a 2 second internet search that shows how wolves are beneficial to all wildlife. So what?
https://www.livingwithwolves.org/about-wolves/why-wolves-matter/
Post by: Bango skank on January 13, 2020, 05:46:13 PM
Post by: Cougartail on January 13, 2020, 05:54:48 PM
..also someone has a list of 72 documented bear attacks where handguns were used for protection. The success rate was 96% and of the 5 times the 9mm was used all were successful. Five flukes? :o
How many of those actually resulted in a dead bear? Could be blanks making the same noise could have worked as well. Doesnt mean its an adequate caliber for brownies. I sure wouldnt stake my life on it.
Ive killed a black bear with a handgun (.44mag, 8ft), and an extremely large bodied whitetail(.357). Ive seen what hadguns can do. From the performance i got out of a 5" barrel .357 on a whitetail i sure as hell wouldnt dream of shooting a deer with a 9mm, let alone a pissed off grizz. But as i said before, if you want to bet your life on the absolute weakest possible sidearm that anybody may consider for grizz defense, have at it. A lot of deer have been killed with rimfire .22 also, doesnt mean its a reasonable round to have good odds of killing a deer quickly. And if i feel the need to shoot anything to protect my life... grizz, black bear, whatever, i dont want to wound it, hurt it, or scare it. I want to kill it. Right now. A dead critter is a harmless critter.
All were hit. Four were found dead. One is unknown. If it will penetrate the skull it will kill the animal. Accuracy is far more important than excessive power that misses. A Brown Bear with its heart blown out by a 458 Win Mag will live up to 5 minutes. A 9mm to the head is instantaneous..
A 9mm with sights will feel much better than a full sized rifle that you can't shoot accurately and quickly, just so you know.. :o
Post by: huntnphool on January 13, 2020, 05:57:09 PM
Post by: Bango skank on January 13, 2020, 06:03:32 PM
..also someone has a list of 72 documented bear attacks where handguns were used for protection. The success rate was 96% and of the 5 times the 9mm was used all were successful. Five flukes? :o
How many of those actually resulted in a dead bear? Could be blanks making the same noise could have worked as well. Doesnt mean its an adequate caliber for brownies. I sure wouldnt stake my life on it.
Ive killed a black bear with a handgun (.44mag, 8ft), and an extremely large bodied whitetail(.357). Ive seen what hadguns can do. From the performance i got out of a 5" barrel .357 on a whitetail i sure as hell wouldnt dream of shooting a deer with a 9mm, let alone a pissed off grizz. But as i said before, if you want to bet your life on the absolute weakest possible sidearm that anybody may consider for grizz defense, have at it. A lot of deer have been killed with rimfire .22 also, doesnt mean its a reasonable round to have good odds of killing a deer quickly. And if i feel the need to shoot anything to protect my life... grizz, black bear, whatever, i dont want to wound it, hurt it, or scare it. I want to kill it. Right now. A dead critter is a harmless critter.
All were hit. Four were found dead. One is unknown. If it will penetrate the skull it will kill the animal. Accuracy is far more important than excessive power that misses. A Brown Bear with its heart blown out by a 458 Win Mag will live up to 5 minutes. A 9mm to the head is instantaneous..
A 9mm with sights will feel much better than a full sized rifle that you can't shoot accurately and quickly, just so you know.. :o
Ive never been an advocate of rifles for self defense, thanks.
As i said before, ive killed 2 big game animals, a bear and s deer, point blank with handguns. How many have you?
Post by: h20hunter on January 13, 2020, 06:07:43 PM
If this becomes a :pee: match we can end it now. Knock it off.
Post by: konradcountry on January 29, 2020, 09:51:35 PM
Would I carry a 9mm in Idaho or Alaska when hunting? No way. Your odds of a grizz encounter go way up when slaughtering or carrying meat. Sure in theory you could get a headshot with a 9mm but I'd rather have something hard hitting.
I'm aware of the 9mm grizz kill and I thought that was irresponsible on the part of the guide.
Post by: Jellymon on January 30, 2020, 03:56:30 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 30, 2020, 04:34:58 AM
Post by: Jellymon on January 30, 2020, 04:40:31 AM
And 10 mm is 1 mm better than 9.
But does it go to eleven? :chuckle:
Post by: C-Money on January 31, 2020, 08:04:36 AM
Post by: Jgarrigus on January 31, 2020, 08:38:06 AM
Post by: gee_unit360 on January 31, 2020, 08:53:59 AM
Good read. I carry a .40 cal
Post by: OutHouse on January 31, 2020, 12:30:03 PM
When I carried my 9mm, it was virtually exclusively for four leg problems and I used one of a couple of well known and proven rounds. Law enforcement actual shooting data as well as test data exists and is easy to find. I would use bear spray as my 1st choice if having animal problems.
Now, I carry a .357 snub usually with hard cast figuring it would at least poke a small hole in a person and get decent penetration on a bear, much better than 9 mm. This would be 2nd choice with spray still being the go-to. I don't hunt in grizz areas, so it's more of a feel good thing for the most part.
I'm considering branching out to grizz areas and will likely pick up a 10mm as backup to the spray.
Anyway, more info than asked for but that is my philosophy.
My woods carry is a .357 with HSM bear loads.👍
This. I have the HSM bear loads in 180 grain for my .357, not sure if they make them heavier but they impact like a mule's kick. Flat top and pure lead I think.
Post by: HighlandLofts on February 01, 2020, 04:10:26 AM
When thing go bad every thing goes by very quickly and your shootingvwill be all over the place. The more bullet capacity the better. Look how many shoots cops take when things go down and how many hits they actually hit the intended target.
One of my friends wife hit a deer with her full size van and crippled the deer, broke the deers back right by the back hips.
Called 911, Sherrif comes, shoot a full.magazine at the deer.
Put one bullet through an antler, one bullet through an ear another in the gut sack.
Second magazine about the third shot finely connected and killed the deer.
In my oppinion this should of been a low preasure use of a firearm and should of only required aone shot, maybe two.
When bad things happen fast you shooting will SUCK.
Don't limit yourself to five or six shots in a revolver. I use to csrry a 357mag or a 44ma revolver and went out and bought a Glock 20 in 10mm with the fifteen round magazines.
I have three friends who have come across tweekers way back in the woods. Two of them needed a change of britches. One was a total anti-gun liberal which changed in to a EVERYDAY/ALLDAY CARRY GUY.
They were very lucky guns were not needed to get the hell out of Dodge.
The only person I kmow personally that had a bear encounter goes bow hunting for Elk over by Mt. Adams.
He hikes in a couple of miles and will hunt deeper back in the woods.
He has always borrowed one of my Ruger 44 magnum revolvers to carry back in the woods.
Two years ago he didn-t borrow a side arm.
He was set up and waiting when he heard a strange noise which wasn't that far away.
It turned out to be a small black bear cub which was making it's way towards him.
It finely got close and seen him standing there and headed to him to check him out.
It didn't take the mama bear long to come and investigate. When the mother bears registered what was going on she became agitated and started huffing, sucking in large amoutsof are winding him and really acting aggressive.
She did a fake charge, stopped and went through the snouting, pawing the ground and charged again and stopped about thirty-five feet away. The little cub ran and climbed a tree. After a couple mintes of sucking in ait, tearing up some real estate and accesing him she went to the tree the cub climbed up. Be sliwly kept backing up away from her when she was focused on the cub. After about twenty minutes he made some good distence from the mother & cub bear.
When he got home the following payday he went out and bought himself a 44 magnum rebolver.
He hss been bow hunying for elk for twenty-five years with out any problems, the one time he went unarmed he should of had a back up.
Tweeker incidents are on the rise, we have some very serious predators out in the woods depending on where you go.
Grizzly bears, black bears, cougars and wolves.
Cougar attacks are becoming more popular.
It can be deadly out there if you are unaware of what's taking place and are under armed for the situation.
For the cost of a right sized sidearm and proper ammunition is eell worth in inverstment. You can equip yourself for under $700.
Sell one of your less used firearms to buy a side arm, trade one in or just put a reliable handgun on lay-away for your back woods handgun.
Your life might depend upon it one of these days.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on February 01, 2020, 10:22:10 AM