Post by: yotesnmore on January 14, 2020, 08:22:53 PM
Post by: bear on January 14, 2020, 08:36:17 PM
Post by: 300rum on January 14, 2020, 08:39:49 PM
surrounding his property..
Post by: h2ofowlr on January 14, 2020, 08:47:35 PM
Post by: millerwheeler on January 14, 2020, 08:48:10 PM
Post by: JakeLand on January 14, 2020, 09:29:14 PM
Post by: Jingles on January 15, 2020, 07:08:35 AM
Post by: Tracker0721 on January 15, 2020, 08:02:34 AM
Post by: Jingles on January 15, 2020, 08:14:30 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 15, 2020, 08:46:35 AM
Post by: deereman on January 15, 2020, 10:01:48 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 15, 2020, 10:26:45 AM
Post by: Curly on January 15, 2020, 10:34:56 AM
I'm also curious to hear more of the story.......like how was he caught? Was he bragging on social media or did he catch a neighbor's dog, or what? :dunno:
Post by: JakeLand on January 15, 2020, 12:05:47 PM
Post by: Cougartail on January 15, 2020, 12:23:40 PM
Coyotes are a unclassified nuisance everything should be legal except poison to control the population
:yeah:
Post by: lewy on January 15, 2020, 12:38:30 PM
Post by: Machias on January 15, 2020, 12:43:03 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 15, 2020, 12:45:45 PM
Post by: Humptulips on January 15, 2020, 07:43:53 PM
If it was me I would be worried.
Post by: Special T on January 15, 2020, 07:50:58 PM
How many times have we seen or heard of guys poaching cats or some other predator then go full rogue and poach deer or elk. Because of the lack of movement by the department I have noticed sportsmen be more vocal in the passive acceptance of it. When sportsmen in large numbers quit caring the "sport" is over then it becomes an outlaw battle.
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Post by: getreal711 on January 15, 2020, 07:53:29 PM
Post by: Bango skank on January 15, 2020, 07:55:10 PM
Many of the responces are indicative of the slippery slope we are on. The longer the rules protect predators the less folks will view them as part of the ecology.
How many times have we seen or heard of guys poaching cats or some other predator then go full rogue and poach deer or elk. Because of the lack of movement by the department I have noticed sportsmen be more vocal in the passive acceptance of it. When sportsmen in large numbers quit caring the "sport" is over then it becomes an outlaw battle.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
If the state wont get their act together and manage predators reasonably, widespread civil disobedience will be the new normal. Its getting there. Lot of very unhappy folks who have had enough, that are fed up with what wdfw is doing. There cones a point where otherwise law abiding people just say screw it and start doing whst needs to be done.
Post by: MtnMuley on January 15, 2020, 08:00:23 PM
I hope they don't hammer him but based on the one other case I know of that was similar each snare will be a separate offense. Other guy I know had 13 traps out. $1000 fine per trap, total $13000.
If it was me I would be worried.
You're telling me that a guy paid $13K for some traps he had set of the wrong kind, yet there's several cases each year of several poached animals/fish/shellfish that get a slap on the wrist with fines in the hundreds? This pathetic state gets worse every day.
Post by: Humptulips on January 15, 2020, 08:27:55 PM
Is there a link that talks about the law against snares? I haven't read the rules so ignorant about it.https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.194
Here's the key sentences.
"(1) It is unlawful to use or authorize the use of any steel-jawed leghold trap, neck snare, or other body-gripping trap to capture any mammal for recreation or commerce in fur."
"(3) It is unlawful to use or authorize the use of any steel-jawed leghold trap or any other body-gripping trap to capture any animal, except as provided in subsections (4) through (6) of this section."
"(7) A person violating this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor."
Also to learn what constitutes a bodygripping trap read,
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.192
(2) "Body-gripping trap" means a trap that grips an animal's body or body part. Body-gripping trap includes, but is not limited to, steel-jawed leghold traps, padded-jaw leghold traps, Conibear traps, neck snares, and nonstrangling foot snares. Cage and box traps, suitcase-type live beaver traps, and common rat and mouse traps are not considered body-gripping traps.
Post by: getreal711 on January 15, 2020, 08:37:20 PM
Post by: Humptulips on January 15, 2020, 08:49:08 PM
Does (recreation or commerce in fur) apply to protecting your livestock? But I see section 3 says only in exceptions 4-6. Glad my last yote was caught chasing one of my turkeys with my .223 and NV scope Christmas eve.If you read the entire thing there is no avenue to get a permit for neck snares. Likely what he was using. Even if he was using foot snares he would need to have a permit and he would be in the clear if he had a permit. You wouldn't be hearing about it if he had a permit.
Bottom line, Gross Misdemeanor for every snare.
Gross misdemeanors in Washington are punishable by up to 364 days in county jail, or a fine of up to $5,000, or both
Post by: huntnphool on January 15, 2020, 09:37:57 PM
Does (recreation or commerce in fur) apply to protecting your livestock? But I see section 3 says only in exceptions 4-6. Glad my last yote was caught chasing one of my turkeys with my .223 and NV scope Christmas eve.If you read the entire thing there is no avenue to get a permit for neck snares. Likely what he was using. Even if he was using foot snares he would need to have a permit and he would be in the clear if he had a permit. You wouldn't be hearing about it if he had a permit.
Bottom line, Gross Misdemeanor for every snare.
Gross misdemeanors in Washington are punishable by up to 364 days in county jail, or a fine of up to $5,000, or both
If he gets a liberal judge (likely) and is not a illegal or homeless, he will get the max!
Post by: idaho guy on January 16, 2020, 06:09:38 AM
Many of the responces are indicative of the slippery slope we are on. The longer the rules protect predators the less folks will view them as part of the ecology.
How many times have we seen or heard of guys poaching cats or some other predator then go full rogue and poach deer or elk. Because of the lack of movement by the department I have noticed sportsmen be more vocal in the passive acceptance of it. When sportsmen in large numbers quit caring the "sport" is over then it becomes an outlaw battle.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
If the state wont get their act together and manage predators reasonably, widespread civil disobedience will be the new normal. Its getting there. Lot of very unhappy folks who have had enough, that are fed up with what wdfw is doing. There cones a point where otherwise law abiding people just say screw it and start doing whst needs to be done.
That’s what needs to happen. People at some point need to stand up and fight for whats right.
Post by: hunter399 on January 16, 2020, 06:29:30 AM
I agree with skankMany of the responces are indicative of the slippery slope we are on. The longer the rules protect predators the less folks will view them as part of the ecology.
How many times have we seen or heard of guys poaching cats or some other predator then go full rogue and poach deer or elk. Because of the lack of movement by the department I have noticed sportsmen be more vocal in the passive acceptance of it. When sportsmen in large numbers quit caring the "sport" is over then it becomes an outlaw battle.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
If the state wont get their act together and manage predators reasonably, widespread civil disobedience will be the new normal. Its getting there. Lot of very unhappy folks who have had enough, that are fed up with what wdfw is doing. There cones a point where otherwise law abiding people just say screw it and start doing whst needs to be done.
That’s what needs to happen. People at some point need to stand up and fight for whats right.
Real problem is with rouge trapping is now the animals are just wasted ,people set traps to lower predator numbers never to return to check them.when if it was legal to foothold trap you have more responsible people that are willing to check traps and skin and use the animal.But I'm sure bango is right ,we will see more of this as time goes on public or private property.
Post by: elkboy on January 16, 2020, 08:06:52 AM
Attitudes like some of those reflected in this thread are as much of a threat as habitat loss, predation, or anything else to our continued ability to hunt. The rest of society is watching, and they will judge whether our community is a trustworthy group of stewards of the wildlife resource. And I don't mean WDFW. I mean us, the ones out there with gun or bow in hand. I think the vast majority of us are, but you might not know it by some opinions expressed. And hunting has enemies who are all too happy to take advantage of whatever propaganda they are provided with, even if it is not representative of hunters at large.
And parenthetically, I too am frustrated by "slap on the wrist" punishment of poachers. We need to build the bandwidth in our legal system so that courts aren't so overwhelmed with non-wildlife cases that they can't address fish and wildlife crime.
Post by: JakeLand on January 16, 2020, 08:14:42 AM
Post by: elkboy on January 16, 2020, 08:18:09 AM
Ok here’s one for you 2 years ago a “defender of wildlife “ released a bobcat and destroyed my cage . I followed his tracks in the snow to his house and got him, long story short with confession to the warden and a “slam dunk case “ it’s still in the courts system waiting ! HmmmmAlso very wrong! Hope you get your day in court. Glad the tracking snow was good... and you sent the "defender of wildlife" a strong message.
Post by: Curly on January 16, 2020, 08:22:11 AM
Can't coyotes be trapped with other trap types? I presume this fellow in Moses Lake wasn't trying to trap out a ravenous wolf pack.
Not really... nothing that works anyway. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
Post by: Special T on January 16, 2020, 08:25:52 AM
Civil disobedience over coyotes? Which already have a 365 day open season? Can't coyotes be trapped with other trap types? I presume this fellow in Moses Lake wasn't trying to trap out a ravenous wolf pack.Cage traps dont work on coyotes, and that is all that is legal.
Attitudes like some of those reflected in this thread are as much of a threat as habitat loss, predation, or anything else to our continued ability to hunt. The rest of society is watching, and they will judge whether our community is a trustworthy group of stewards of the wildlife resource. And I don't mean WDFW. I mean us, the ones out there with gun or bow in hand. I think the vast majority of us are, but you might not know it by some opinions expressed. And hunting has enemies who are all too happy to take advantage of whatever propaganda they are provided with, even if it is not representative of hunters at large.
And parenthetically, I too am frustrated by "slap on the wrist" punishment of poachers. We need to build the bandwidth in our legal system so that courts aren't so overwhelmed with non-wildlife cases that they can't address fish and wildlife crime.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: Cougartail on January 16, 2020, 08:59:39 AM
Attitudes like some of those reflected in this thread are as much of a threat as habitat loss, predation, or anything else to our continued ability to hunt.
Gee, I wonder where rural people got the attitude laws can be ignored? Maybe if the government and leftist types would stop marginalizing laws they don't like (i.e. Immigration.) this attitude wouldn't be so prevalent. :dunno:
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 16, 2020, 09:16:17 AM
Attitudes like some of those reflected in this thread are as much of a threat as habitat loss, predation, or anything else to our continued ability to hunt.
Gee, I wonder where rural people got the attitude laws can be ignored? Maybe if the government and leftist types would stop marginalizing laws they don't like (i.e. Immigration.) this attitude wouldn't be so prevalent. :dunno:
For many, ignoring game laws has been a "tradition" long before we started ignoring our immigration laws. I don't know about this specific case, but elkboy's point is well-taken - if you have the attitude that games laws are there to be broken, the North American Game Management Model ceases to exist.
Post by: Bill W on January 16, 2020, 09:25:49 AM
Post by: Cougartail on January 16, 2020, 10:01:12 AM
Attitudes like some of those reflected in this thread are as much of a threat as habitat loss, predation, or anything else to our continued ability to hunt.
Gee, I wonder where rural people got the attitude laws can be ignored? Maybe if the government and leftist types would stop marginalizing laws they don't like (i.e. Immigration.) this attitude wouldn't be so prevalent. :dunno:
For many, ignoring game laws has been a "tradition" long before we started ignoring our immigration laws. I don't know about this specific case, but elkboy's point is well-taken - if you have the attitude that games laws are there to be broken, the North American Game Management Model ceases to exist.
"Tradition" for some, yes but never has the WDFW provided "sanctuary" to those that violate game laws thus encouraging it. Ignoring immigration laws will be the end of our country which is far more important than any "Game Management Model".
As for the "NAGMM".. It has changed from providing hunting opportunities for Americans to feeding predators for "bio-diversity". What is the difference between predators wiping out all the deer and elk and poachers doing the same. Either way hunters lose..
I notice nobody is very vocal when the "Wolf SSS" crowd talks about breaking the law. :twocents:
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 16, 2020, 10:20:16 AM
Attitudes like some of those reflected in this thread are as much of a threat as habitat loss, predation, or anything else to our continued ability to hunt.
Gee, I wonder where rural people got the attitude laws can be ignored? Maybe if the government and leftist types would stop marginalizing laws they don't like (i.e. Immigration.) this attitude wouldn't be so prevalent. :dunno:
For many, ignoring game laws has been a "tradition" long before we started ignoring our immigration laws. I don't know about this specific case, but elkboy's point is well-taken - if you have the attitude that games laws are there to be broken, the North American Game Management Model ceases to exist.
"Tradition" for some, yes but never has the WDFW provided "sanctuary" to those that violate game laws thus encouraging it. Ignoring immigration laws will be the end of our country which is far more important than any "Game Management Model".
As for the "NAGMM".. It has changed from providing hunting opportunities for Americans to feeding predators for "bio-diversity". What is the difference between predators wiping out all the deer and elk and poachers doing the same. Either way hunters lose..
I notice nobody is very vocal when the "Wolf SSS" crowd talks about breaking the law. :twocents:
You're all over the place. You seem to be saying that because the predators are wiping out all the ungulates, poachers should be free to do the same and we should ignore the NAGMM. That's a ridiculous connection. The immigration thing really has nothing to do with this thread - off on a tangent. And, when people make posts about illegal activities, such as SSS for wolves in WA, they're warned that posts promoting illegal activities are against the forum rules. If you haven't seen them, you haven't been paying attention.
Post by: Humptulips on January 16, 2020, 11:12:03 AM
Wonder why trappers get so upset about mole trapping. Everybody, LE and yes even this forum turn a blind eye to blatant illegal activity. There are threads on here with guys bragging about it.
If the law were enforced equally the law would have been changed long ago. The unequal enforcement took away our biggest bargaining chip for change in the law.
Result, trappers get hammered if we break the law, everybody else get a free pass.
Post by: Cougartail on January 16, 2020, 11:35:58 AM
As for game laws, I try not to violate any intentionally myself. However I won't give the State $94.00 to hunt animals that don't exist due to predators and mismanagement. The Department of Fish and Game worked for the benefit of my interest, hunting. The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife works for all users groups which is fine but will not get money from me to feed predators. The powers to be in this state are destroying hunting so why should I care how it happens? (Predators/Poachers) I don't!
:mgun2: was posted on this website numerous times when referencing wolves. Were they shooting rubber bullets? lol
Post by: elkboy on January 16, 2020, 11:48:47 AM
Real change takes hard work, not a string of broken laws. We will never get the changes that we might want as a hunting public if we don't spend some sweat in education, political activity, volunteerism.'
I'm not here to start fights, or come off as a higher-ground kind of guy. Sorry if either is occurring. I passionately care about hunting as conservation, as a strong tie to the land, as a source of food for a lot of us, and so much more. I just want us to go about advocating for it in the best way possible, and for the rest of society to see us as responsible stewards of the resource we directly use.
Post by: Cougartail on January 16, 2020, 11:49:35 AM
Might I remind people that the same exact law applies to mole traps. Every mole trap you set is potentially a Gross Misdemeanor.
Wonder why trappers get so upset about mole trapping. Everybody, LE and yes even this forum turn a blind eye to blatant illegal activity. There are threads on here with guys bragging about it.
If the law were enforced equally the law would have been changed long ago. The unequal enforcement took away our biggest bargaining chip for change in the law.
Result, trappers get hammered if we break the law, everybody else get a free pass.
:yeah: Pretty lawns, smooth golf greens and safe, smooth soccer fields are justification to violate the law by special people who are above the law.
Post by: Special T on January 16, 2020, 12:00:46 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2019-12/final_inslee_gray_wolf_response_with_attachment_112719.pdf
Pman
The rule of law is important. I believe the last line from the Directors response to the Governor on wolves is recognition of this slippery slope. Laws only have meaning when people believe in them. The widened disconnect on wolves WILL spread. When the discontent spreads enough the rule of law will have no force. At some point the heavy hand of $1k per illegal trap will be less of a deterrent and more of a justification for rebellion. I don't want this, and I know you don't either. As long as the state ignores those effected by these bad laws the more it will fester until it implodes.
Post by: Machias on January 16, 2020, 02:28:47 PM
Post by: Machias on January 16, 2020, 02:30:29 PM
Might I remind people that the same exact law applies to mole traps. Every mole trap you set is potentially a Gross Misdemeanor.
Wonder why trappers get so upset about mole trapping. Everybody, LE and yes even this forum turn a blind eye to blatant illegal activity. There are threads on here with guys bragging about it.
If the law were enforced equally the law would have been changed long ago. The unequal enforcement took away our biggest bargaining chip for change in the law.
Result, trappers get hammered if we break the law, everybody else get a free pass.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: