Post by: 7mmfan on January 16, 2020, 10:20:25 AM
I always have tried to pick a camo that I feel best matches the surrounding landscape. Lately I've been trying to buy more clothing in solid colors, and I'm trying to get away from browns for obvious safety reasons. I've been looking at slate grays as a good happy medium but am worried that it will standout a little to much. It seems from what I've read though that anything in the green/gray range is all just shades of gray to deer and elk. My question is, do you think that the shade of gray matters? Does a darker gray like the Kuiu Vias camo, or the Grays that Kuiu, Firstlite, tone Glacier are using on their puffies will standout from surrounding green vegetation because it is a darker shade of the gray than what the deer views the sagebrush or grass as?
I'll also note that at this point, I exclusively rifle hunt. I'm not worried about close quarters profile breakup that an archery hunter would. I just don't want to be a moving dark spot on the other side of the gully 250 yards from animals that I'm trying to get into shooting position on.
Thoughts?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 16, 2020, 10:34:37 AM
Post by: Stein on January 16, 2020, 10:39:21 AM
For rifle hunting, I don't think it matters at all, focus on staying still, not on the ridgeline and being behind cover.
Post by: 7mmfan on January 16, 2020, 10:46:13 AM
If you are moving they will spot you, if you aren’t moving they likely won’t spot you in general rifle ranges. I say the color makes little difference. :twocents:
Both of those have always been my viewpoint and practice. I hunt little in WA anymore so I don't wear an orange vest much.
I guess I'm not really asking on opinions of if I'm moving will they see me, I know they will. It's if someone thinks a darker gray is going to be more visible than a natural color, assuming all they see in those colors is shades of gray? Does the science behind cervid eyesight lead us to believe that these two colors will be viewed essentially the same to a deer? Lets use these 2 as examples.
Post by: Stein on January 16, 2020, 10:51:04 AM
I would get whatever is available at the best price, I don't think it matters at all.
Post by: CastleRocker on January 16, 2020, 11:26:23 AM
I like certain lighter color camo patterns, as it seems like when I see another hunter all camoed out, they look like a dark blob, especially from a distance. Marsh patern Sitka is my personal favorite.
All that being said, I've had deer, and elk both walk within feet of me while I'm wearing red and black plaid wool, and the old grey Woolrich bib pants that had the red pinstripes. Don't know why I still buy expensive camo, but I do.
Post by: Mtnwalker on January 16, 2020, 12:13:15 PM
A wise man (my Dad), told me long ago..."you can fool their eyes, but you can never fool their nose...and they always believe their nose".
I like certain lighter color camo patterns, as it seems like when I see another hunter all camoed out, they look like a dark blob, especially from a distance. Marsh patern Sitka is my personal favorite.
All that being said, I've had deer, and elk both walk within feet of me while I'm wearing red and black plaid wool, and the old grey Woolrich bib pants that had the red pinstripes. Don't know why I still buy expensive camo, but I do.
:yeah:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on January 16, 2020, 12:14:27 PM
Post by: idaho guy on January 16, 2020, 12:33:05 PM
A wise man (my Dad), told me long ago..."you can fool their eyes, but you can never fool their nose...and they always believe their nose".
I like certain lighter color camo patterns, as it seems like when I see another hunter all camoed out, they look like a dark blob, especially from a distance. Marsh patern Sitka is my personal favorite.
All that being said, I've had deer, and elk both walk within feet of me while I'm wearing red and black plaid wool, and the old grey Woolrich bib pants that had the red pinstripes. Don't know why I still buy expensive camo, but I do.
red and black plaid wool is the original digital camo! It is what I mostly wear rifle hunting it hasn't let me down yet! I was archery hunting with a friend and he was coming to me in the brush wearing Kuiu camo and I could see the brush moving but couldn't really see him so I vote for that pattern in the thick stuff. In the end I don't think it matters much but depends on the wind and your movement.
Post by: 7mmfan on January 16, 2020, 12:51:36 PM
A wise man (my Dad), told me long ago..."you can fool their eyes, but you can never fool their nose...and they always believe their nose".
I like certain lighter color camo patterns, as it seems like when I see another hunter all camoed out, they look like a dark blob, especially from a distance. Marsh patern Sitka is my personal favorite.
All that being said, I've had deer, and elk both walk within feet of me while I'm wearing red and black plaid wool, and the old grey Woolrich bib pants that had the red pinstripes. Don't know why I still buy expensive camo, but I do.
:yeah:
This is the point I'm getting at. What we as people see is starkly different than what the animals we hunt see. I see a guy in Kuiu Vias across the canyon against a light background and to me I think an animal should be able to see him from a mile away. The SCIENCE behind cervid eyesight says differently though. Does that gray that stands out to humans so vividly disappear into a sea of other gray tones and shades for a deer or elk? Should I confidently walk into the woods in a color that per human eyesight blends into nothing around me, with the confidence that deer and elk see it as basically the same color as any other tree or rock or bush on the mountain?
I'm not asking how to blend in, or what will hide me while moving, I know they can see me while moving. I know I can't fool their nose. What does the science say regarding gray scale eyesight and what is your opinion on how the translates into hunting camo/color patterns.
Post by: theleo on January 16, 2020, 01:05:21 PM
Moving through sagebrush and dried grass, you'll look like a black bear. Sitting 100+ yards away looking at them through a scope, you'll look like a rock on the hillside. Move accordingly.If you are moving they will spot you, if you aren’t moving they likely won’t spot you in general rifle ranges. I say the color makes little difference. :twocents:
Both of those have always been my viewpoint and practice. I hunt little in WA anymore so I don't wear an orange vest much.
I guess I'm not really asking on opinions of if I'm moving will they see me, I know they will. It's if someone thinks a darker gray is going to be more visible than a natural color, assuming all they see in those colors is shades of gray? Does the science behind cervid eyesight lead us to believe that these two colors will be viewed essentially the same to a deer? Lets use these 2 as examples.
Post by: Stein on January 16, 2020, 01:28:46 PM
Pretty much anything a coyote size or bigger is a threat, I think they flee because there is danger well before they ponder whether that is a guy, bear, wolf or whatever.
What do I know though? My guess is as good as anyone else's. All I know is that the people really leading the charge on camo patterns are the ones that charge the most for their pattern and those they pay to be spokespeople. It's so great and ground breaking that they dump it in a year or two for something else that looks pretty much the same but just different enough that your old stuff doesn't match.
Post by: 7mmfan on January 16, 2020, 01:41:00 PM
So I guess the consensus is that despite gray scale vision, a darker shade of gray is still going to stand out to them, especially when movement is thrown in. A guy is probably better off for overall concealment going with a base color that is close to the color of the surrounding landscape.
Post by: Jingles on January 16, 2020, 02:22:02 PM
Post by: OltHunter on January 16, 2020, 02:29:08 PM
I think this should help answer some questions, best I've found. Hope it can help.
Overall I don't think it matters if you blend in color wise to your surroundings, you need something that can break out your outline farther away and not reflect blue/yellow/UV rays.
Really according to this, patterns like ASAT are the best since they try to limit that "blob" appearance have large coarse areas of breakouts. Kuiu and First Lite are better choices due to the larger areas of breakout and less fine detail. Sitka i think is more blob like closer up. Still, i'm not sure if it matters 200+ yards for rifle hunters, considering you have 400 sq inches of blob showing up.
Those super fine leaf like camos like Realtree effectively are great for us to look at and hard to see someone up close, blob like to deer, not as good.
Far away, everything will appear as a blob, that is why limiting movement is the most effective.
If you use something that enhances UV like detergents or reflects UV, that is going to be bad. So no shiny stuff. This is also an unmentioned benefit of wool products vs poly/synthetic fabrics. I think Kryptek uses some type of cold press camo printing or something like that, which supposedly limits any dye reflection as dyes can reflect.
So in a nut shell, prior posts aren't trying to be funny or something, it really doesn't matter. Especially at 200+ yards, pick what you like. Deer will see anything pretty much the same as long as it's not blue or yellow and not reflecting UV light.
I don't like black (looks like bear), brown tops (looks like a deer) only for safety from other "hunters".
I prefer darker camo only cause it won't look so terrible when dirty! I do like that FL gray though, and will be tempted to pick one up in the uncompaghre 2.0 on a pro discount.
If you are a bow hunter, I think you can get some benefit to a better camo pattern that follows what was mentioned. If you get spotted the deer/elk can't make out what you are as quickly as someone in an all gray jumpsuit which may buy you some more time or they lose interest and don't spook. But most likely no matter what, they are keying in your movements and smell.
Post by: jackelope on January 16, 2020, 02:45:01 PM
I wish one of the camo makers would come out with a snowy brush pattern, that was reasonably priced, for those of us that spend more time in the woods in the winter than other seasons.
@Jingles
Here you go.
https://www.kingscamo.com/collections/snow-shadow
Post by: Switchback on January 16, 2020, 03:52:29 PM
Also, something to maybe think about that's related to your question. Grays can have two different color bases - blue and brown. One's called 'cold' and one's called 'warm' I think. Anyway, deer see blue really really well, like anything blue sticks out like a sore thumb, even at distance. So if you buy a gray jacket and that particular shade of gray is blue based, that might actually be a negative thing.
If I were picking solid colors, I'd do a light green (think olive, not forest). If green looks like gray to deer, just match the shade of green to the shade of gray you'd typically buy and then you don't have to worry about having a blue-based color that sticks out to deer. I'd also be wary of some synthetics, as they can be really reflective compared to natural fabrics. All just depends on the fabric tho. But for sure, I think the shade of the color, and the material, are the biggest things to consider at rifle distance.
Post by: Okanagan on January 16, 2020, 06:38:50 PM
I wish one of the camo makers would come out with a snowy brush pattern, that was reasonably priced, for those of us that spend more time in the woods in the winter than other seasons.
Gamehide snow camo. About $30 each for jacket and pants, and I got mine on a sale for about $20. I bought two of each.
https://gamehide.com/product/ambush-snow-camo-jacket/?attribute_pa_color=0wc&attribute_pa_size=large
My favorite. It is low cost, thin synthetic material that wads up into a small ball to go in pack or pocket. I put it on over layers of warm clothes as needed. Sometimes don't put it on till I select a calling stand. I mostly wear it for calling cats but where legal wore it for hunting deer, moose, as well as calling predators. With thin compact camo, I carry both dry ground and snow pattern and use what best fits the calling spot, sometimes white on top, dry ground camo below, etc. It does make me look fat, however.
(https://i.imgur.com/Z3HAVCt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/34ZhKTt.jpg)
The coyote above stopped 200 yds out, 100 yds out and then about 30 yds away to stare at me hunkered in full camo; hands, face and body. He would look away at an experimental decoy I was trying and had set 15 yds to one side, Then he would look back at me, squinting as if to figure out just what I was. I lifted my rifle and shot when he looked away the second time.
Post by: Miles on January 17, 2020, 05:41:45 AM
Post by: Jingles on January 18, 2020, 07:40:42 PM
I am not trying to offend anyone and if I do I apologize in advance
Yes everyone can at one time or other get lucky and kill something wearing everyday street clothes adapted for hunting and there are those that insist on using blinds instead of learning to blend in or make a blind out of material already in the woods, however consider me not only old but old school where a hunter uses every advantage he/she can to put the odds in their favor so if it means wearing camo that is close to what is in the area he/she is hunting that is what I'll do BUT I'm not going to spend $250.00 for the top and another $200.00 for bottoms
Post by: storyteller on January 18, 2020, 07:54:56 PM
Post by: Bango skank on January 18, 2020, 08:11:35 PM
A thank you to those that suggested a location / manufacturer of a snowny brush pattern
I am not trying to offend anyone and if I do I apologize in advance
Yes everyone can at one time or other get lucky and kill something wearing everyday street clothes adapted for hunting and there are those that insist on using blinds instead of learning to blend in or make a blind out of material already in the woods, however consider me not only old but old school where a hunter uses every advantage he/she can to put the odds in their favor so if it means wearing camo that is close to what is in the area he/she is hunting that is what I'll do BUT I'm not going to spend $250.00 for the top and another $200.00 for bottoms
So how often does a guy have to do that before it is regular occurence, and not dumb luck? I dont wear camo. My big game kills last season were at 15, 40, 17 and 5 yards. No "scent control" either. Luck every time? Or maybe, just maybe, camo isnt all that important? It might just be a way to get guys to spend more money on stuff. But if it makes you feel more confident, i guess that counts for something too.
Here is a picture of a mountain lion. One of natures most capable close range ambush predators. Notice, they wear solids. :chuckle:
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 18, 2020, 11:29:05 PM
Whether or not camo, or certain clothes of any sort helps in concealment is a discussion that often illicits a lot of one dimensional opinions. Just reading some of the comments it would appear that unless your running thru the forest animals never see you, and if your still and have good wind you are invisible. My experience is different species and adaptations within species often put eyesight right up there with scent, different hunting tactics may dictate a different level of concealment as well.
Post by: Okanagan on January 19, 2020, 09:28:50 AM
My experience is different species and adaptations within species often put eyesight right up there with scent, different hunting tactics may dictate a different level of concealment as well.
If I understand you, :) I agree!
Some species are more visually oriented than others. Camo works better on them because they depend on their eyes a lot. Camo works well on humans! The only kind of animals I hunt that get me serious about wearing camo is any of the cat family. They are intently focused on seeing their prey and they see extremely well.
I've called critters in T-shirt and jeans, especially coyotes, deer and elk. Called a cougar close to my 4x4 one afternoon and don't recall what I was wearing while sitting in it. ;)
Having said that however, even with coyotes I prefer my hands concealed and/or camoed when using a hand call, and usually add a face net to camo gloves when rattling deer. I've had coyotes stare at me and do a double take at me in full camo, so it does help sometimes, especially at bow ranges, but...
coyotes, deer, elk etc. never seem to look as hard nor see as well as cats IME.
We/I have wandered from the original grey-camo-for-cervid-hunting topic. Most of my comments are for calling stuff up close, especially cats. For deer and elk hunting with a rifle, it is hard to beat bold plaid shirts and medium toned pants. They blend in to most backgrounds at any distance, especially in any kind of forest, even red and black in many sunlight conditions. For hunting pants I prefer thin wool dress pants in greens and greys.
Post by: jackelope on January 19, 2020, 10:30:17 AM
Post by: Smossy on January 19, 2020, 10:42:10 AM
I posted a photo as an example of what I mean by stripes.
Post by: idaho guy on January 19, 2020, 04:35:22 PM
I bought lots of camo stuff mostly because of the quality of the gear at the time. I did most of my bigger hiking and backpacking trips in camo mostly because I wasn’t interested in spending the money twice. Now the quality hunting clothing manufacturers are making lots of solid colors too. My go-to pants are solid gray now and I’ve got a few solid color top layers too. Folks can talk all they want about some blue jeans and a flannel shirt but you won’t catch me in that stuff 5 miles from the truck in a white out. Mostly you won’t catch me because I would have to head back to said truck so I don’t die of hypothermia.
Who said anything about hunting in blue Jean s :chuckle: All I have seen is pro and cons of is camo really that important? I think wool is better than any synthetic they have ever made and will continue with my green woolies and plaid red and black jacket till I die or they actually come up with something better. It’s quiet warm and mostly a lot less expensive 👍 lion from last week it was freezing outside I was warm
Post by: follow maggie on January 19, 2020, 04:47:23 PM
https://www.scheels.com/p/mens-scheels-outfitters-musselshell-pant/17708-18MUSBWR.html#q=musselshel&lang=en_US&start=1
Post by: jackelope on January 20, 2020, 09:34:59 AM
I bought lots of camo stuff mostly because of the quality of the gear at the time. I did most of my bigger hiking and backpacking trips in camo mostly because I wasn’t interested in spending the money twice. Now the quality hunting clothing manufacturers are making lots of solid colors too. My go-to pants are solid gray now and I’ve got a few solid color top layers too. Folks can talk all they want about some blue jeans and a flannel shirt but you won’t catch me in that stuff 5 miles from the truck in a white out. Mostly you won’t catch me because I would have to head back to said truck so I don’t die of hypothermia.
Who said anything about hunting in blue Jean s :chuckle: All I have seen is pro and cons of is camo really that important? I think wool is better than any synthetic they have ever made and will continue with my green woolies and plaid red and black jacket till I die or they actually come up with something better. It’s quiet warm and mostly a lot less expensive 👍 lion from last week it was freezing outside I was warm
I'm totally with you on the wool. I use several different wool pieces.
As far as the blue jeans comment, it seems like every time this topic comes up, someone chimes in how all you need is a good pair of blue jeans and a flannel shirt to kill all the animals you want. It was more meant to be a joke than anything else but anyway...
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 20, 2020, 10:05:13 AM
Post by: mossback91 on January 20, 2020, 10:09:36 AM
I bought lots of camo stuff mostly because of the quality of the gear at the time. I did most of my bigger hiking and backpacking trips in camo mostly because I wasn’t interested in spending the money twice. Now the quality hunting clothing manufacturers are making lots of solid colors too. My go-to pants are solid gray now and I’ve got a few solid color top layers too. Folks can talk all they want about some blue jeans and a flannel shirt but you won’t catch me in that stuff 5 miles from the truck in a white out. Mostly you won’t catch me because I would have to head back to said truck so I don’t die of hypothermia.
Who said anything about hunting in blue Jean s :chuckle: All I have seen is pro and cons of is camo really that important? I think wool is better than any synthetic they have ever made and will continue with my green woolies and plaid red and black jacket till I die or they actually come up with something better. It’s quiet warm and mostly a lot less expensive 👍 lion from last week it was freezing outside I was warm
I'm totally with you on the wool. I use several different wool pieces.
As far as the blue jeans comment, it seems like every time this topic comes up, someone chimes in how all you need is a good pair of blue jeans and a flannel shirt to kill all the animals you want. It was more meant to be a joke than anything else but anyway...
Love my Wool stuff from Filson, wool rich, codet etc.... warm when wet and also heavy! But the stuff is great on late season November and December hunts but it has its place. The newer synthetics also have their places earlier in the year and usually farther from the truck! I won’t go anywhere without wool base layers though. Either way both have their places. As far as camo or color? Pick whichever appeals to you because you care a whole lot more about what you look like than the animals do.
Post by: Okanagan on January 20, 2020, 10:11:58 AM
- whether camo is needed to shoot a critter,
- and whether it is a good idea to wear cotton when hunting much of the PNW.
Re the first topic: Critters can be hunted successfully sometimes when wearing non-camo clothes (I came across a buck one morning while wearing a sports jacket on my way to church).
Re the second: I don't wear a stitch of cotton when deliberately hunting or hiking etc. in the PNW.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 20, 2020, 10:24:54 AM
If you hear elk chuckling a lot during the season, it's because your camo doesn't match. Just FYI.
Post by: idaho guy on January 20, 2020, 11:29:19 AM
I bought lots of camo stuff mostly because of the quality of the gear at the time. I did most of my bigger hiking and backpacking trips in camo mostly because I wasn’t interested in spending the money twice. Now the quality hunting clothing manufacturers are making lots of solid colors too. My go-to pants are solid gray now and I’ve got a few solid color top layers too. Folks can talk all they want about some blue jeans and a flannel shirt but you won’t catch me in that stuff 5 miles from the truck in a white out. Mostly you won’t catch me because I would have to head back to said truck so I don’t die of hypothermia.
Who said anything about hunting in blue Jean s :chuckle: All I have seen is pro and cons of is camo really that important? I think wool is better than any synthetic they have ever made and will continue with my green woolies and plaid red and black jacket till I die or they actually come up with something better. It’s quiet warm and mostly a lot less expensive 👍 lion from last week it was freezing outside I was warm
I'm totally with you on the wool. I use several different wool pieces.
As far as the blue jeans comment, it seems like every time this topic comes up, someone chimes in how all you need is a good pair of blue jeans and a flannel shirt to kill all the animals you want. It was more meant to be a joke than anything else but anyway...
:tup: I get it I have seen those comments in other threads as well. We have all probably managed to harvest some nice animals In jeans but I agree wouldn’t want to be way back in bad weather with them lol. I was just promoting the best hunting clothes wool! I feel like some hunters are being taken advantage of by some of the high dollar new camouflage clothing companies. The old red and black plaid jacket is the original digital camo in my opinion. :chuckle:I think it breaks up your outline but the red might keep an idiot from shooting you in states like Idaho where orange is not required. The truth for me and my experience in really nasty weather is a combination of some of the newer stuff paired with the old school wool has been best. Back to the original question I don’t think the shade of grey jacket matters but green wool pants blend in well in most of Idaho!
Post by: idaho guy on January 20, 2020, 11:33:35 AM
I bought lots of camo stuff mostly because of the quality of the gear at the time. I did most of my bigger hiking and backpacking trips in camo mostly because I wasn’t interested in spending the money twice. Now the quality hunting clothing manufacturers are making lots of solid colors too. My go-to pants are solid gray now and I’ve got a few solid color top layers too. Folks can talk all they want about some blue jeans and a flannel shirt but you won’t catch me in that stuff 5 miles from the truck in a white out. Mostly you won’t catch me because I would have to head back to said truck so I don’t die of hypothermia.
Who said anything about hunting in blue Jean s :chuckle: All I have seen is pro and cons of is camo really that important? I think wool is better than any synthetic they have ever made and will continue with my green woolies and plaid red and black jacket till I die or they actually come up with something better. It’s quiet warm and mostly a lot less expensive 👍 lion from last week it was freezing outside I was warm
I'm totally with you on the wool. I use several different wool pieces.
As far as the blue jeans comment, it seems like every time this topic comes up, someone chimes in how all you need is a good pair of blue jeans and a flannel shirt to kill all the animals you want. It was more meant to be a joke than anything else but anyway...
Love my Wool stuff from Filson, wool rich, codet etc.... warm when wet and also heavy! But the stuff is great on late season November and December hunts but it has its place. The newer synthetics also have their places earlier in the year and usually farther from the truck! I won’t go anywhere without wool base layers though. Either way both have their places. As far as camo or color? Pick whichever appeals to you because you care a whole lot more about what you look like than the animals do.
:tup:
Post by: Okanagan on January 20, 2020, 03:18:25 PM
If you hear elk chuckling a lot during the season, it's because your camo doesn't match. Just FYI.
;) Re, making sure your clothes and camo match when in the woods...
When our younger son was about 6, he was going with me to take a load to the dump, then cut a load of firewood to bring home. I waited for him to get ready and finally said, “C'mon, D, let's go.”
In tears he called from his room, “My socks don't match my pants!”
I looked at his mother, and she said, “Maybe I have overdone it in teaching the boys to wear clothes that match.”
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 20, 2020, 05:45:19 PM
Post by: Aginor on August 03, 2020, 03:39:28 PM
😂 😂A thank you to those that suggested a location / manufacturer of a snowny brush pattern
I am not trying to offend anyone and if I do I apologize in advance
Yes everyone can at one time or other get lucky and kill something wearing everyday street clothes adapted for hunting and there are those that insist on using blinds instead of learning to blend in or make a blind out of material already in the woods, however consider me not only old but old school where a hunter uses every advantage he/she can to put the odds in their favor so if it means wearing camo that is close to what is in the area he/she is hunting that is what I'll do BUT I'm not going to spend $250.00 for the top and another $200.00 for bottoms
So how often does a guy have to do that before it is regular occurence, and not dumb luck? I dont wear camo. My big game kills last season were at 15, 40, 17 and 5 yards. No "scent control" either. Luck every time? Or maybe, just maybe, camo isnt all that important? It might just be a way to get guys to spend more money on stuff. But if it makes you feel more confident, i guess that counts for something too.
Here is a picture of a mountain lion. One of natures most capable close range ambush predators. Notice, they wear solids. :chuckle:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Alchase on August 04, 2020, 08:31:13 AM
But then I shot a buck at 25 yards, while I was sitting in plain sight, wearing blue jeans and a solid white T-shirt, as it was walking down draw totally oblivious.