Post by: bowhunterforever on April 08, 2009, 10:19:01 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on April 08, 2009, 10:25:24 PM
Post by: wackmaster on April 08, 2009, 11:10:58 PM
Post by: yelp on April 09, 2009, 06:40:41 AM
Post by: Gobble on April 09, 2009, 06:52:46 AM
Post by: yelp on April 09, 2009, 06:57:19 AM
Post by: Gobble on April 09, 2009, 07:18:38 AM
Post by: fishunt247 on April 09, 2009, 08:52:51 AM
Post by: turkeydancer on April 09, 2009, 12:08:45 PM
Post by: Tom Tamer on April 09, 2009, 04:00:04 PM
Another one I saw was across the street from the Black Diamond gas station, a lone hen standing in a guys yard. A feelow that helps at our Jakes event seen it too and stopped at the farm house and asked about it. They'd never seen her before she stayed for four days then left?? WIld or domestic :dunno: hoping wild that would cut down my drive time from 2 hours to 2 minutes :chuckle:
Post by: Wacenturion on April 09, 2009, 04:50:27 PM
Best thing is observation by someone knowledgable enough who knows what they are looking at....or al least a educated guess and some pictures as far as subspecies. The way the birds react.....standing around in someone's yard might lead me to believe that it was somewhat domesticated...game farm stock...perhaps.
I only am pointing out possibilities....anyone's guess at this point without a credible sighting of what they are subspecies wise. I would not venture a guess without knowing more. Any pictures from anyone....anyone actually pull off and watch for awhile...anything that could narrow it down?
As far as the NWTF saying that Merriam's would crest over and take over western Washington.....what crystal ball are they looking into....lol. God I just love the unscientific reasoning that that statement reaks of. If that were the case then ask yourself why SW Washington has not been "taken over" by Merriams expanding from Klickitat County.... probably because.....oh I know ........they have only had like 49 years to do so....lol.
The reason is that when they expanded westward from Klickitat to say Carson...you know where one begins to sense you're back in western Washington because of all the green trees and green brush and green everything from all the rain......they stopped there because they don't like it....plain and simple....not Merriams habitat.
Post by: turkeydancer on April 09, 2009, 05:41:44 PM
Post by: Tom Tamer on April 10, 2009, 10:02:42 AM
Quote
As far as the NWTF saying that Merriam's would crest over and take over western Washington.....what crystal ball are they looking into....lol. God I just love the unscientific reasoning that that statement reaks of. If that were the case then ask yourself why SW Washington has not been "taken over" by Merriams expanding from Klickitat County.... probably because.....oh I know ........they have only had like 49 years to do so....lol.
I agree with that statement more.....the way it was said did sounded like just hypothetical to me also. I was told by NWTF RD at the time they had a picture of one in Issaquah that had the markings of a Merriam's but then why was that picture never publicized? The ones I mentioned seeing around other than the white phase all had buff tails looked very much like Merriams but then again so do a lot of Domestics. If you look at the harvest report the 454 ( Issaquah) unit always has a kill report of around 10. But then again the question is Wild or Farm........yet to be determined. Should we all hold our breath for either WDFW or NWTF to make the call :dunno:
Post by: Ray on April 10, 2009, 10:06:15 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on April 10, 2009, 10:59:21 AM
Issaquah....9 birds....2004
4 birds....2007
Island........3 birds.... 2005
1 bird......2006
1 bird......2007
Northsound.6 birds.....2005
3 birds.....2006
The Issaquah GMU runs from Everitt to Duvall, to Fall City and south then back west the north to point of orgin. A portion of Snohomish county is in 454. Easterns were released near Arlington in the late 90's....one possibility. Another...with all those people living in King County...I would tend to think that there may be one or two helpful types that may have released some game farm stock....happens quite frequently. Last....Merriams from up above expanding and coming over and down.
All possibilities....oh...one more....expansion of easterns from Pierce...possible also...birds have had lots of years to do so and 20 years ago eastern escapees from NW Trek were reported outside the park......as well as expanding wild released Easterns in Thurston (near Pierce) from the mid 80's on.
GMU 407 Northsound is Whatcom and Snohomish counties....part of which includes the Arlington area where a couple release of Easterns were made.
Gmu 410 Islands...is just that..San Juans. Those birds have been there for years and years. From Eastern turkeys raised years ago...50's-60's on WDFW..then Dept. of Game game farms and released on one or two of the islands. There were also a few Merriam's that were caught in Klickitat and also released way back then. For the most part...a nuisance problem....too tame. For all intents and purposes they appear to have dominate eastern traits...coloration etc....unless that has changed.
Although they count as an Eastern if harvested.....they are not even in the same class as our real easterns....lol.
Post by: Tom Tamer on April 10, 2009, 09:16:37 PM
Quote
All possibilities....oh...one more....expansion of easterns from Pierce...possible also...birds have had lots of years to do so and 20 years ago eastern escapees from NW Trek were reported outside the park......as well as expanding wild released Easterns in Thurston (near Pierce) from the mid 80's on.
That could be a possibility there, I know my Dad( Logger) had seen birds right acoss from the Tanawax golf course about five years ago, and another newspaper article had spotted some off 8th ave outside of Roy.... Plus theres the talk of some bieng on Ft. Lewis? Did they plant any on base? Or I figured that could be some wanderers from the Johnson creek flock???? But I think it's feral birds let go by someone up in the Issaquah :twocents:
Post by: Wacenturion on April 11, 2009, 03:43:21 AM
Granted some of those sightings might well be wandering birds rather than actual expansion, but in the case of the Lake Sinclair area birds, there were also sightings in several areas all the way back south to Ranier/Tenino at the same time.
Post by: Tom Tamer on April 12, 2009, 06:55:55 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on April 12, 2009, 07:25:19 PM
A whole lot easier on the bird and their eventual survivability. Any time you put anything on a bird such as radio gear it impacts the birds ability to make it....mortality goes way up, therefore the use of bib mounts. They are cut to just slide over the birds neck tightly and just hang down in front of the neck, kind of like the plastic thingie you hang on your motel door...you know......do not disturb. Of course most states still use wing mount collars....personally I wouldn't waste a transmitter or a bird like that....dead bird 7 out of ten times.
Not sure about what you say someone described as happening on a bunker creek bird. The closest to that that I recall is that there was a Bunker Creek or Lincoln Creek bird did end up fairly fast in the area above Doty and settled in. Thats not to say it didn't happen....there were some senior vounteers that were providing assistance by doing some monoritoring work back then. Some of those birds (a couple) did indeed move out from the release site and eventually return......but generally not in a two day stint.
Post by: Tom Tamer on April 12, 2009, 07:34:59 PM
Post by: gasman on April 12, 2009, 07:43:40 PM
Post by: WABONEHNTR on April 14, 2009, 08:45:08 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on April 14, 2009, 09:03:00 AM
I am from North Bend and have seen a lot of the turkeys there. Most of those turkeys were released and they are merriams. 99% of them came from kettle falls area. Seems that most of them hang out in the houses where they are getting fed. You can see them along the highway also but mostly in the houses.
You say the turkeys around North Bend were released and that 99% of them came from the Kettle Falls area.
QUESTION...........Who released them.....WDFW? What about the other 1%? What is your source....were you there for any of those releases? Please fill us in.
Post by: fishunt247 on April 14, 2009, 10:30:56 AM
Post by: WABONEHNTR on April 14, 2009, 10:36:35 AM
Post by: Gobble on April 14, 2009, 10:40:19 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on April 14, 2009, 11:43:36 AM
The WDFW was not involved. I am not going to name names. But I am more then sure there are a few barn yard raised turks walking around in the area.
Thanks...appreciate you clarifying your statement. Most folks would have read your comment and thought WDFW had released birds there. I knew they did not release Merriam's or any other subspecies anywhere near North Bend. I figured it was probably game farm stock, but I gather some locals must have caught some over in the NE and brought them over...poults most likely or otherwise trapped some birds.
Appreciate your commenting, as that clears up the mystical Merriams coming down from above. The way you describe them hanging around houses where they are fed is typical of game farm stock, or in this case imprinted poults or tamed down older birds. That jives with comments from Turkey Tamer and others regarding birds hanging around houses, across from gas stations, and so on.
Thanks again...,.....
Post by: Wacenturion on April 14, 2009, 11:46:34 AM
The birds in North Bend have migrated from the Teanaway flock
Not if what WABONEHNTR says is true. Pretty well says it all about where they came from.....at least the majority of sightings that is. Part way down the pass...wild acting bird....maybe from above. Standing around town.....don't think so.
Post by: WABONEHNTR on April 14, 2009, 11:54:08 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on April 14, 2009, 12:00:21 PM
It does a real dis-service to the overall program, and probably stimulates others to think they can help by doing the same.....buying game farm birds and releasing the subspecies they see, because the WDFW will not. Last but not least it turns off non hunters and property owners because these birds end up crapping on their roof or decks. That gives turkeys a bad name and could potentially nix any release in that area. Just food for thought.........
Post by: WABONEHNTR on April 14, 2009, 12:03:46 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on April 14, 2009, 12:07:58 PM
I would say most of the birds are of pure wild stock. I have heard there were more than 150 total released over a couple years. The people around here love them and feed them year around. Last year I saw a flock of over 40. There arent a lot of good places to hunt them but you never know where they might be.
If poults were caught and brought over, then wild stock doesn't mean much, once they are imprinted on people. You know, feeding and caring until big enough to turn loose. Even being from wild stock in a situation as you describe, they are tame turkeys and will get tamer. There will be people eventually in the neighborhoods that will get tired of the mess....scratchings in flower beds, droppings on sidewalks, roofs, decks....cars...yep sitting on the top of cars. With that you probably gets scratches too....lol.
As I said before, those kinds of turkeys give turkeys a bad name.
Post by: Tom Tamer on April 14, 2009, 08:08:49 PM
I agree.
:yeah:
And right now we need all the positive support we can muster because the turkey's biggest enemy right now is the WDFW.... we need to do all we can to either shake up the hierarchy or at least the mentality there in order to move forward :twocents: