Post by: Commando on June 05, 2020, 12:03:12 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on June 05, 2020, 05:01:59 AM
Post by: adamR on June 05, 2020, 05:31:33 AM
Post by: CP on June 05, 2020, 05:33:48 AM
In diving into the ar world and I’ve got a pretty stupid sbr question. I was talking to my brother and them and he was saying I need to fill out a form sent it in and get a stamp on the rifle. Cool. But than he goes on to say that if I want to go out and shoot it I need to notify some one I’m going to do that before I go to the range? Is this true? Again sorry for the question but I can’t find a straight answer on it.
No, that is not true. Once your SBR is approved you do not need inform anyone before shooting it at the range. There are restrictions on taking it across state lines. I suggest you get more, and better, info before tackling this. There are some good youtube videos that are a place to start.
Post by: CP on June 05, 2020, 05:35:51 AM
If you go with a 10.5" barrel or shorter it is classified as a pistol.
That isn't true either. The difference between an SBR and an AR pistol boils down to one thing; a Short Barrel Rifle is designed to be fired from the shoulder, a pistol is not.
Post by: Russ McDonald on June 05, 2020, 08:43:49 AM
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Post by: Commando on June 05, 2020, 08:54:24 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on June 05, 2020, 08:57:53 AM
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Post by: STEVO85 on June 05, 2020, 09:10:28 AM
Post by: b23 on June 05, 2020, 12:32:45 PM
If you go with a 10.5" barrel or shorter it is classified as a pistol. Don't have to go through all of that then. I have a AR pistol
Pretty sure it has to come from the manufacturer as a pistol in order for it not to be classified as a SBR. You put a short barrel or even a short barrel upper and an arm brace on an AR that was sold by the manufacture as a rifle, you better have it engraved as an SBR and have a tax stamp for it because you just made a short barreled rifle.
AR pistols made and sold as pistols, regardless of barrel length and even if they have an arm brace, are considered pistols and don't require a tax stamp. The ATF has a memo on arm braces and how they can be fired from the shoulder. It's been awhile since I read it but I recall it leaves a lot of room for interpretation. If I remember it read something like you can occasionally shoot an AR pistol with an arm brace from the shoulder but if you intend to shoot it from the shoulder all the time, then not so much. Like I said, it's worded kind of odd and leaves it open to interpretation with a lot of grey area.
Post by: Russ McDonald on June 05, 2020, 04:01:00 PM
I bought mine as a pistol but it was only the lower kit that was labeled as a pistol. Which as far as I can tell with the naked eye is the buffer tube is a different size where standard rifle stocks won't fit on it. The upper seems to be standard to any upper just has a 10.5" barrel.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200605/f120c98852084d6d2a11a8041435cf87.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200605/803e53f5c88c09527a27bd4ec0fe7b1b.jpg)If you go with a 10.5" barrel or shorter it is classified as a pistol. Don't have to go through all of that then. I have a AR pistol
Pretty sure it has to come from the manufacturer as a pistol in order for it not to be classified as a SBR. You put a short barrel or even a short barrel upper and an arm brace on an AR that was sold by the manufacture as a rifle, you better have it engraved as an SBR and have a tax stamp for it because you just made a short barreled rifle.
AR pistols made and sold as pistols, regardless of barrel length and even if they have an arm brace, are considered pistols and don't require a tax stamp. The ATF has a memo on arm braces and how they can be fired from the shoulder. It's been awhile since I read it but I recall it leaves a lot of room for interpretation. If I remember it read something like you can occasionally shoot an AR pistol with an arm brace from the shoulder but if you intend to shoot it from the shoulder all the time, then not so much. Like I said, it's worded kind of odd and leaves it open to interpretation with a lot of grey area.
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Post by: NWShooter on June 05, 2020, 04:08:51 PM
Post by: STEVO85 on June 05, 2020, 04:28:45 PM
If the lower was purchased as a complete rifle or rifle lower then it can't be made into a pistol. If the lower was purchased as a pistol lower or a striped lower purchased as a "other" then you can build it as a pistol without issue. You must also stay under 26" from the end of the muzzle threads to the end of the buffer tube otherwise it would be a firearm. Your muzzle devise and brace are not factored into that length unless permanently attached, pinned muzzle device for instance. You can't use a vertical fore grip, but you can use a angled for grip. If you do some searching you can find all of the specs that it has to fit into to be a pistol, or what you need to do to register it as a sbr. There is some risky gray area on what is defined as a firearm and how your gun might be looked at if enforcement ever decided to take issue with it if it is more than 26". My 5.56 10.5" barrel is 25.5" oal and works very well suppressed or unsuppressed. If you went with a 300blk you could go 7.5 or 8.5 but guys have mixed reliability under 10.5 with a 5.56. Just my experience with them anyway.
Mine is set up similar to the pic Russ posted. It uses the kak super tube and blade brace. The newer sba 3 and sba 4 braces use a carbine buffer tube and you can adjust the "length of pull" on your brace. There are some good youtube videos that explain the differences between the two a little easier to understand than what the atf paper reads. I would still recommend building a pistol instead of a sbr just because it's less of a hassle.
Post by: grundy53 on June 05, 2020, 04:43:12 PM
Most stripped lowers come as "other".If you go with a 10.5" barrel or shorter it is classified as a pistol. Don't have to go through all of that then. I have a AR pistol
Pretty sure it has to come from the manufacturer as a pistol in order for it not to be classified as a SBR. You put a short barrel or even a short barrel upper and an arm brace on an AR that was sold by the manufacture as a rifle, you better have it engraved as an SBR and have a tax stamp for it because you just made a short barreled rifle.
AR pistols made and sold as pistols, regardless of barrel length and even if they have an arm brace, are considered pistols and don't require a tax stamp. The ATF has a memo on arm braces and how they can be fired from the shoulder. It's been awhile since I read it but I recall it leaves a lot of room for interpretation. If I remember it read something like you can occasionally shoot an AR pistol with an arm brace from the shoulder but if you intend to shoot it from the shoulder all the time, then not so much. Like I said, it's worded kind of odd and leaves it open to interpretation with a lot of grey area.
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Post by: Russ McDonald on June 05, 2020, 05:49:12 PM
Yup that is how I got mine. Stripped lower as other than a pistol lower kit.Most stripped lowers come as "other".If you go with a 10.5" barrel or shorter it is classified as a pistol. Don't have to go through all of that then. I have a AR pistol
Pretty sure it has to come from the manufacturer as a pistol in order for it not to be classified as a SBR. You put a short barrel or even a short barrel upper and an arm brace on an AR that was sold by the manufacture as a rifle, you better have it engraved as an SBR and have a tax stamp for it because you just made a short barreled rifle.
AR pistols made and sold as pistols, regardless of barrel length and even if they have an arm brace, are considered pistols and don't require a tax stamp. The ATF has a memo on arm braces and how they can be fired from the shoulder. It's been awhile since I read it but I recall it leaves a lot of room for interpretation. If I remember it read something like you can occasionally shoot an AR pistol with an arm brace from the shoulder but if you intend to shoot it from the shoulder all the time, then not so much. Like I said, it's worded kind of odd and leaves it open to interpretation with a lot of grey area.
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Post by: huntandjeep on June 05, 2020, 05:53:46 PM
My 10.5" Pistol started as an " other " lower . I can cross state lines with it without hassle , it rides around loaded in my truck . One thing people don't think about with 556 SBRs or pistols is they are loud as hell , unless you suppress them ( which I do ) my pistol unsupressed will give me a headache and make my ears ring ( even with EarPro ) after a mag or two with a regular muzzle device . You can get blast comps ( SLR makes a nice one $$ ) that directs the blast away from the shooter . I put one on my brother's 10.5" Pistol and it's not bad to shoot . As far as not shouldering the brace no LEO will hassle you , I've shot mine and my brother his numerous times with Leo's that my brother works with and not 1 has said a thing .
Post by: Russ McDonald on June 05, 2020, 05:56:15 PM
Not worth the $200 for the stamp to have an SBRInteresting. I never noticed how load mine was compared to my ar rifles, I use Walker Silencers.
My 10.5" Pistol started as an " other " lower . I can cross state lines with it without hassle , it rides around loaded in my truck . One thing people don't think about with 556 SBRs or pistols is they are loud as hell , unless you suppress them ( which I do ) my pistol unsupressed will give me a headache and make my ears ring ( even with EarPro ) after a mag or two with a regular muzzle device . You can get blast comps ( SLR makes a nice one $$ ) that directs the blast away from the shooter . I put one on my brother's 10.5" Pistol and it's not bad to shoot . As far as not shouldering the brace no LEO will hassle you , I've shot mine and my brother his numerous times with Leo's that my brother works with and not 1 has said a thing .
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Post by: NWShooter on June 05, 2020, 06:09:24 PM
https://www.sb-tactical.com/blog/sb-tactical-announces-reversal-atf-open-letter-use-sb-tactical-pistol-stabilizing-braces/
Post by: huntandjeep on June 05, 2020, 06:28:37 PM
The SB Tactical AR Pistol brace can be placed against the should. The ATF sent SB Tactical a letter stating such. The brace just cannot be modified in any way or the strap completely removed. This letter only covers the SB braces. It is not a “Blanket” letter covering all AR braces. SB Tactical went at them with attorneys.And the SB Tacticals are the nicest braces on the market . I have an SBA3 and we put an SBA4 on my brother's. I had a Kac blade before and it sukd .
https://www.sb-tactical.com/blog/sb-tactical-announces-reversal-atf-open-letter-use-sb-tactical-pistol-stabilizing-braces/
Post by: CP on June 05, 2020, 06:58:53 PM
I had a Kac blade before and it sukd .
:yeah:
Post by: mountainman on June 05, 2020, 07:32:30 PM
"Pretty sure it has to come from the manufacturer as a pistol in order for it not to be classified as a SBR."This covers legalities pretty thouroughly👍
If the lower was purchased as a complete rifle or rifle lower then it can't be made into a pistol. If the lower was purchased as a pistol lower or a striped lower purchased as a "other" then you can build it as a pistol without issue. You must also stay under 26" from the end of the muzzle threads to the end of the buffer tube otherwise it would be a firearm. Your muzzle devise and brace are not factored into that length unless permanently attached, pinned muzzle device for instance. You can't use a vertical fore grip, but you can use a angled for grip. If you do some searching you can find all of the specs that it has to fit into to be a pistol, or what you need to do to register it as a sbr. There is some risky gray area on what is defined as a firearm and how your gun might be looked at if enforcement ever decided to take issue with it if it is more than 26". My 5.56 10.5" barrel is 25.5" oal and works very well suppressed or unsuppressed. If you went with a 300blk you could go 7.5 or 8.5 but guys have mixed reliability under 10.5 with a 5.56. Just my experience with them anyway.
Mine is set up similar to the pic Russ posted. It uses the kak super tube and blade brace. The newer sba 3 and sba 4 braces use a carbine buffer tube and you can adjust the "length of pull" on your brace. There are some good youtube videos that explain the differences between the two a little easier to understand than what the atf paper reads. I would still recommend building a pistol instead of a sbr just because it's less of a hassle.
Post by: Bango skank on June 05, 2020, 07:36:45 PM
I would still recommend building a pistol instead of a sbr just because it's less of a hassle.
Also because you can carry it loaded in your vehicle
Post by: Commando on June 05, 2020, 11:14:59 PM
Post by: NWShooter on June 05, 2020, 11:49:51 PM
I would still recommend building a pistol instead of a sbr just because it's less of a hassle.
Also because you can carry it loaded in your vehicle
I completely agree. I keep a 12.5” 6.8 SPC, built of a 80% lower with a SBA3 brace and a LAW folder. Gassed up in the truck at all times. Makes for a small package and the 95gr Barnes TTSX’s are wicked in short barrels.
Post by: STEVO85 on June 06, 2020, 11:33:22 AM
Post by: konradcountry on June 06, 2020, 11:48:34 AM
The blast on the AR pistol isn't that bad if you are outside. I wouldn't go to 7.5" with 223 like someone else said though.
Fun stuff
10.5 with a jcomp
Post by: mountainman on June 06, 2020, 12:17:55 PM
Post by: fowl smacker on June 06, 2020, 12:19:10 PM
SBA3 tough to beat!Yep, all my AR pistols have wear an SBA3
Post by: zwickeyman on June 06, 2020, 12:34:21 PM
I agree with the guys that say build a pistol over a SBR