Post by: Alchase on April 13, 2009, 03:15:27 PM
If they have their way Trail Blazers are history.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009027452_apwafishstockingcascades.html
Post by: rasbo on April 13, 2009, 03:32:30 PM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on April 13, 2009, 03:46:39 PM
This is the same dam debate that get's me upset about hatcheries being evil, every last ounce of salmonid's in this State has already been affected by hatcheries in one way or another, the gene pool is already mixed, the important thing now, is to view our resources as a whole and not to experience a net loss. This is a net loss, plain and simple. One of my fondest memories as a kid was mountain lake fishing with pops, where?? In a mountain lake in MRNP with no fish historically. If the lakes are not connected by stream to an affected watershed, than there is no scientific support to back up their position.
Post by: Mauser on April 13, 2009, 04:00:33 PM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on April 13, 2009, 04:08:01 PM
I didn't even think of that, -by the way, let's pollute the hell out of the water.... :mor:
Post by: Happy Gilmore on April 13, 2009, 05:06:57 PM
Post by: wazzuhunter on April 13, 2009, 05:18:45 PM
Quote
every last ounce of salmonid's in this State has already been affected by hatcheries in one way or another, the gene pool is already mixed, the important thing now, is to view our resources as a whole and not to experience a net loss.
:yeah:
The gene pool has already been messed with so much that hatcheries are the only way to reestablish fisheries in some streams.
Post by: clindsayrun on April 13, 2009, 05:51:17 PM
I can't stand these people.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on April 13, 2009, 06:48:13 PM
Post by: chukarchaser on April 13, 2009, 07:37:50 PM
Post by: Curly on April 13, 2009, 07:57:57 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on April 13, 2009, 08:03:12 PM
My bad! Did I just say that?
Post by: fishing is for fools on April 13, 2009, 08:48:03 PM
Post by: Jerbear on April 13, 2009, 11:15:39 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on April 14, 2009, 12:33:55 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on April 14, 2009, 12:34:23 AM
Since humans are not native to North America until they were unnaturally moved here 10K years ago, can I poison some of them?
Ecosystems are living, fluid, things. Today's invasive species is tomorrow's cornerstone of the local system.
Post by: Alchase on April 14, 2009, 11:35:16 AM
If they are allowed to do this, they will have an indirect precedent to shutting down all lake plants and river hatchery's for the same logic.
And yes this "is" the agenda being pushed.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on April 14, 2009, 12:03:34 PM
It is probably partially a cost issue. Without planting, the fish probably wouldn't maintain on their own. This probably isn't true with all mountain lakes but, he said many of the lakes he plants don't have very many carryover fish because of the low food content in the lakes.
Post by: Buckshot Bill on April 14, 2009, 12:25:46 PM
Post by: TONTO on April 14, 2009, 02:20:45 PM
Post by: boneaddict on April 14, 2009, 02:49:15 PM
Post by: fishing is for fools on April 15, 2009, 06:20:29 PM
Post by: rasbo on April 15, 2009, 06:23:28 PM
Next thing you know they will want you to pack out you own poop.what you dont :yike: :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on April 15, 2009, 06:27:03 PM
Post by: fishseeker on April 15, 2009, 06:27:11 PM
Post by: Alpine Mojo on April 15, 2009, 07:07:26 PM
One of my best friends works for F&W at the Chelan Hatchery as a fish hatchery tech and is responsible for planting many of the high lakes. The fish are usually backpacked or dropped from small planes. He said the mortality of the fingerling plants is high when dropped or backpacked.
It is probably partially a cost issue. Without planting, the fish probably wouldn't maintain on their own. This probably isn't true with all mountain lakes but, he said many of the lakes he plants don't have very many carryover fish because of the low food content in the lakes.
Mortality of those planted fish is dependent on how they are handled in transit. Airborne plants have shown a very high success rate. I would be curious to know what your friend considers high mortality.
The WDFW high lake stocking program is the most cost effective of any around. Raised in the hatchery only to fry stage and planted by volunteers, it has the lowest cost per fish of any stocking program in the state.
Also, there are more carryover fish than you may realize. When you factor in the rather low supply of available food in some alpine lakes and the short summer season, a carryover fish several years old may have reached only 5 or 6 inches in length. If you compare that to the carryover trout you are used to catching in the lowland lakes, it is apples and oranges.
If it was up to me, I would continue stocking inside the park boundary. Keep in mind that when the NCNP was formed in 1968, one of the provisions in the legislation was that the park service was to allow continued stocking of specific lakes. Lakes that had been stocked for generations. If you are to consider these fish "unnatural" then you must consider boot tracks and tire tread unnatural just the same. Since human presence is not a part of the natural ecology up there, does that mean that some day we may find the whole of the Cascades fenced off to keep society out? How far do these people want to go in the name of preservation?
Post by: Smokepole on April 16, 2009, 05:46:30 PM
1- Removing trout from our high lakes will damage our Pacific Northwest heritage. High lake trout fishing is an historic cultural tradition in Washington State.
2- Planting of trout in our northwest high lakes has been performed by volunteers for over 100 years, and funded by our WDFW license purchases. The trout do not belong to the park... they are property of us sportsman, and the men and women who donated their time and sweat to create this unique fishing opportunity.
3- It is known that trout have been sporadically introduced to many bodies of water by birds, animals, and man for centuries without undue harm to fragile ecosystems. Therefore, removing trout for environmental reasons is mute.
4- It will cost taxpayer dollars to "renovate" these lakes. The last I heard, our country was broke, isn't it?
To all my friends here on Hunting-Washington, please put your foot down. Encourage your congressman to protect our traditions. Contact the highest authority in the Parks Service you can, and be heard. I have studied the high lake program, and researched/written magazine articles about this fishery, so if I can help in any way please site mail me.
Disappointed, mostly for my children and grandchildren.
Kevin Miller
Post by: woodswalker on April 16, 2009, 05:48:01 PM
If there was ever a gene pool in trouble it's ours these people are whack jobs.I am a conservationist,it's these damn preservationists that cause all the problems.I don't give a damn how pristine the waters are if there are no fish why would I even want to hike in there.Next will be a buffer zone to keep the hikers from getting too close to the water.Assanine is about the only word I can come up with to describe this way of thinking.Already THERE with camping...please follow the following regulations: Cross-country zones begin a mile from designated camps and a half mile from trails—out of site as well. When traveling cross-country, camping is allowed only on durable surfaces such as snow, rock, or bare ground. Camping in meadows or within 100 feet of water sources is not allowed. Fires are not allowed. Human waste must be buried in a cathole or (when above treeline in snow or on glaciers) carried out in a blue bag.
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on April 17, 2009, 01:05:17 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on April 20, 2009, 12:56:27 PM
One of my best friends works for F&W at the Chelan Hatchery as a fish hatchery tech and is responsible for planting many of the high lakes. The fish are usually backpacked or dropped from small planes. He said the mortality of the fingerling plants is high when dropped or backpacked.
It is probably partially a cost issue. Without planting, the fish probably wouldn't maintain on their own. This probably isn't true with all mountain lakes but, he said many of the lakes he plants don't have very many carryover fish because of the low food content in the lakes.
Mortality of those planted fish is dependent on how they are handled in transit. Airborne plants have shown a very high success rate. I would be curious to know what your friend considers high mortality.
The WDFW high lake stocking program is the most cost effective of any around. Raised in the hatchery only to fry stage and planted by volunteers, it has the lowest cost per fish of any stocking program in the state.
Also, there are more carryover fish than you may realize. When you factor in the rather low supply of available food in some alpine lakes and the short summer season, a carryover fish several years old may have reached only 5 or 6 inches in length. If you compare that to the carryover trout you are used to catching in the lowland lakes, it is apples and oranges.
If it was up to me, I would continue stocking inside the park boundary. Keep in mind that when the NCNP was formed in 1968, one of the provisions in the legislation was that the park service was to allow continued stocking of specific lakes. Lakes that had been stocked for generations. If you are to consider these fish "unnatural" then you must consider boot tracks and tire tread unnatural just the same. Since human presence is not a part of the natural ecology up there, does that mean that some day we may find the whole of the Cascades fenced off to keep society out? How far do these people want to go in the name of preservation?
First drives a truck to the location nearest possible to the lake with a tank truck. Tank truck sits while guy hikes to dump backpack of a hundred fish.
Guy #2 guy drives tens of thousands of fish to a lake, dumps it. Drives back to hatchery picks up another 10K fish and drives to another lake and dumps the whole load.
There are not many guys responsible for planting every lake within a reasonable distance to the hatcheries. I think the Chelan hatchery only has about 5 employees' right now. They do it all. Hatching, raising, sorting and planting. When you drive by the hatchery, you'll see one, sometimes two green trucks parked at the end of the main building. They pretty much plant all the fish in the entire region. That isn't alot of man power to be sending a guy and a truck off into the woods for an all day backbacking event to plant 100 fish. When there could be a few hundred thousand which need to be planted at the right time.
As far as the air drop mortality rates, he is just going by what the state F&W biologists tell him. Apparently, many lakes can't be air dropped because it is far too risky to fly. The lakes must be long enough for the plane to fly low to the water and slow as possible for the drop while still maintaining enough room to regain airspeed and fly out safely. These are state pilots, not bush planes. Ryan is a technician who raises the fish from eggs. He's been on a few drops. Usually only lakes which are too far to back pack in fish. They have a limited life span due to the lack of O2 in the packs and temperature.
I wish they could stock more fish in more lakes but, we all know there are budget cuts being made which will prioritize programs.....
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on April 20, 2009, 01:58:05 PM
Yikes- like knapweed up here... Hopefully they don't kill the fish, but I can see the point in wanting a more native environment. Maybe limit the # of lakes stocked?
Today's invasive species is tomorrow's cornerstone of the local system.
We have lots of brook trout up in Pend Oreille County, there are lots of folks that want them gone because they likely compete with the native trout (of which we have very few) for resources- the same thing happens all the time with bass and perch- they get wiped out to restore trout to a lake. :dunno:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 20, 2009, 02:32:16 PM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on April 21, 2009, 08:10:06 AM
We Hi-lakers are working on getting a bill that would allow stocking to continue as long as the fish are sterile. It made it thru the House last time but died before it made it into the Senate due to the incomming congress. So there is hope
Please send me the info on that if you don't mind, thanks.
Post by: Smokepole on April 21, 2009, 06:18:05 PM
Post by: TONTO on April 21, 2009, 08:28:59 PM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 01, 2009, 08:03:37 AM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 01, 2009, 08:27:06 AM
Post by: deaddog on May 01, 2009, 10:04:23 AM
Funny thing is we employ these people.Yea, the same folks that spent our money to stock the lakes in the first place, now will spend more to take them out, Can you guess what they will want to do in a few years, put the fish back in the lakes. Sounds like quite the racket to me. wdfg sucks
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 01, 2009, 08:23:30 PM