Hunting Washington Forum

Other Activities => Fishing => Topic started by: fireweed on July 29, 2020, 02:10:06 PM

Title: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: fireweed on July 29, 2020, 02:10:06 PM: I was just looking through the next wdfw commission meeting agenda, and to save money, looks like they are proposing to close many fish Hatcheries. YEEKS
Hatcheries listed:

Close six salmon and steelhead hatcheries, including:
Forks Creek, Nemah, Reiter, Tokul Creek, Mayr Bros, and
Whitehorse hatcheries

Closure of Elwha, Toutle, and Skamania hatcheries

Close four trout hatcheries, including: Arlington, Chelan,
Naches, and Mossyrock hatcheries.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-07/7_july31_2020_2021-23perflevel.pdf
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: Mfowl on July 29, 2020, 02:13:45 PM: F that! They should forego the wolf research and channel those funds in to hatchery production!
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: Special T on July 29, 2020, 02:17:23 PM: I wonder what the Tribes are gonna say about that... Didnt they just have some kind of agreement to get past ESA fish requirements?
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: duckmen1 on July 29, 2020, 02:22:04 PM: That's pretty typical. Keep limiting fish production and oh now we got no fish to fish for. Bye bye salmon and steelhead. Seems like salmon and steelhead are always first on the list to reduce opportunity. Also get rid of warmwater species because they compete with salmon. Now we just have nothing to fish for. Hurray wdfw for a great job managing money and your wildlife.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: fireweed on July 29, 2020, 02:28:42 PM: I hope this is just a scare tactic. Last year they were all set to boost chinook for the orcas.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: WSU on July 29, 2020, 02:37:24 PM: It's a scare tactic, just like every time they want more money. They never threaten to cut things nobody cares about.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: duckmen1 on July 29, 2020, 02:45:37 PM: The one thing I can say about the tokul hatchery is steelhead returns in my opinion arent even worth it. Look at the returns. They aren't even getting 100 fish a year to return to the hatchery.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: TriggerMike on July 29, 2020, 02:49:24 PM: What would a scare tactic like this accomplish?
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: WSU on July 29, 2020, 03:19:38 PM: To try and get the legislature to give them general fund money and/or strong arm the legislature into passing the fee increase that has gotten requested but rejected the last few years.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: duckmen1 on July 29, 2020, 03:23:52 PM: Scare tactic. Good thought but I'm not convinced. Usually seems like when a thought or proposal is put out there its either everything listed or more. Once its put out there usually it happens.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: duckmen1 on July 29, 2020, 03:24:19 PM: Hope for the best but fear the worst.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: Bill W on July 29, 2020, 03:31:47 PM: Budget issues were caused by Inslee screwing with the state economy. He caused the shortage.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: WSU on July 29, 2020, 03:34:20 PM: Look at the cuts to hatcheries: Forks Creek, Nemah, and Mayr Brothers. All mainly benefit commercial fishers and are located in Brian Blake's district. Brian Blake is a known commercial fisheries advocate and chairs the house Rural Development, Agriculture, and Natural Resources Committee. Brian Blake has historically been the bread winner for WDFW and, in exchange, WDFW scratched his back by providing for his pet constituents. That's been changing.

Tokul and Reiter are important to Puget Sound fishers as basically the only steelhead hatcheries left in PS that may support a fishery.

Whitehorse is stilly chinook? Without those fish, PS fisheries would be almost impossible (for example, they are the purported reason all blackmouth fishing was closed this year) and that hatchery is keeping that strain alive. Is it even feasible to do away with it? Can WDFW let those ESA listed fish go extinct? I think not and I suspect we'll see.

The list has little to do with cost savings and everything to do with make sure the outcry is too big to allow the cut. It's all about the money.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: duckmen1 on July 29, 2020, 03:45:05 PM: WSU that's a lot of good points.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: fowl smacker on July 29, 2020, 03:47:16 PM: Doubt it's a scare tactic. They're trying to make the Toutle a "Natural Native" river and have been. Eliminate the hatchery, accomplish "their" goal! Very sad!
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: Pegasus on July 29, 2020, 03:55:37 PM: Quote from: Mfowl on July 29, 2020, 02:13:45 PM
F that! They should forego the wolf research and channel those funds in to hatchery production!

:yeah:
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: Dslayer on July 29, 2020, 03:56:36 PM: While a supporter of all hatcheries, I've been heavily involved in the battle to save the Naches Hatchery over the past six years, this is the third time it's been threatened with closure. The link will take you to the thread from 2019 if you care to go back and time and read it-but all the salient points are still relevant. The Naches Hatchery provides tremendous economic and recreational benefit not only to Region 3, but to business and anglers all over the state-as do all the hatcheries. If you look at their presentation that the OP posted, WDFW claims that the closures of the trout hatcheries will save 2 million dollars annually, at the loss of 61 million dollars of economic benefit annually. As other posters have noted, it is a game they play-they can count on a huge public pushback when hatcheries are threatened. DON'T assume that pushback will happen-contact your legislators, the Wildlife Commission, the Director Kelly Susewind, and others in Fisheries management. Certainly it is game-but it's a game we can't afford to lose.

https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,227660.msg3030679.html#msg3030679
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: WSU on July 29, 2020, 04:00:12 PM: I don't think contacting WDFW matters one bit. Contact your legislatures directly. Inslee and WDFW don't care one bit other than getting the funding and making it through the legislative session unscathed.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: j_h_nimrod on July 29, 2020, 04:42:23 PM: Quote from: duckmen1 on July 29, 2020, 02:45:37 PM
The one thing I can say about the tokul hatchery is steelhead returns in my opinion arent even worth it. Look at the returns. They aren't even getting 100 fish a year to return to the hatchery.

I’m not familiar with the hatchery or program, but the return to hatchery alone is not indicative of the true success of a facility. What is the overall contribution of the hatchery to sport and commercial fisheries?
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: j_h_nimrod on July 29, 2020, 04:45:56 PM: Quote from: duckmen1 on July 29, 2020, 03:45:05 PM
WSU that's a lot of good points.

:yeah:
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: duckmen1 on July 29, 2020, 05:02:16 PM: This is a question more than a statement? I know with the dams and such is a requirement to have salmon trout and steelhead management put forth by the cowlitz river project. Does the trout stocking program get any funding from the dam projects for mossyrock hatchery in aid to stock Mayfield and Riffe lake? If so I think that would be money not being taken from wdfw budget and would make me question reasons behind the closure of this trout hatchery.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: fireweed on July 29, 2020, 05:28:17 PM: Quote from: fowl smacker on July 29, 2020, 03:47:16 PM
Doubt it's a scare tactic. They're trying to make the Toutle a "Natural Native" river and have been. Eliminate the hatchery, accomplish "their" goal! Very sad!

I know. They dumped the spring chinook there, and have cut way back on the S. Toutle summer steelhead. But with the sediment dam blocking the upper Toutle and ruining the old spawning grounds the system can never be "Natural". PS. The Elwa, Toutle and Skamania were proposed for closure because of less federal money.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: HntnFsh on July 29, 2020, 06:10:48 PM: Quote from: duckmen1 on July 29, 2020, 05:02:16 PM
This is a question more than a statement? I know with the dams and such is a requirement to have salmon trout and steelhead management put forth by the cowlitz river project. Does the trout stocking program get any funding from the dam projects for mossyrock hatchery in aid to stock Mayfield and Riffe lake? If so I think that would be money not being taken from wdfw budget and would make me question reasons behind the closure of this trout hatchery.

I'm pretty sure that TPU pays for fish from the Mossyrock hatchery. But I'm not sure how much. I'll see what I can find out tomorrow.

Fowl Smacker is correct about the Toutle hatchery. They designated it a gene bank over other better qualified rivers. I think, so they could use it as an excuse to shut it down. WDFW also designated several rivers as gene bank rivers and I think most if not all had hatcheries on them. I remember hearing a representative from I think it was Native fish society touting the Toutle as a perfect habitat for native fish at one of the public gene bank hearings. Obviously he had never been up on the Toutle!
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: Dslayer on July 29, 2020, 06:16:10 PM: Quote from: WSU on July 29, 2020, 04:00:12 PM
I don't think contacting WDFW matters one bit. Contact your legislatures directly. Inslee and WDFW don't care one bit other than getting the funding and making it through the legislative session unscathed.

Absolutely true about Inslee and some of WDFW 'leadership.' (Pretty loose use of the term) I think the Commission, at least certain members, and some WDFW do care or at least it's fun to bug the heck out of them by inundating them with emails. There were a number of comments from both the Commission and WDFW staff about the amount of feedback they had received in 2018 about the Naches Hatchery in particular. One comment was,"I got a call from some lady from Zillah. She didn't know a thing about fishing, but she was mad as hell about the hatchery being closed." Those things matter, maybe not a lot, but they add to the collective weight to achieving an outcome you want. I thought the Commission responded very positively to Sen. King from Yakima when he spoke to them about keeping the Naches Hatchery open back in 2018. Of course, it would be pretty stupid to tell a state senator to bleep off. Along those lines, contacting your legislators, particularly in the 14th and 15th will have an impact and even if you're not a resident of those districts, those legislators and their staffs are already on it.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: fireweed on July 30, 2020, 07:44:02 AM: To save money I would sure like to see the agency cut PLANS and PROCESS. They plan, and plan to plan- 3 yr plans, 5 yr plans, 10 year plans, 25 year plans. Habitat plans, Wildlife area plans, PR plans, Outreach plans, and every time they get a new leader, they start over. These plans then sit on the shelf. How about no new planning until the old plans are completed. I've seen the same goals in plans get carried forward for decades, with no movement on the ground. All this "outreach" and "writing" takes real money.
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: Stein on July 30, 2020, 08:46:34 AM: I agree that putting heat on our legislators is the best option. Inslee has a 95% chance of reelection, no lever to pull there. Anyone know which committees interact with WDFW?
Title: Re: WDFW proposed Hatchery Closure
Post by: WSU on July 30, 2020, 09:31:55 AM: Senate Ways and Means is an important one for the budget. Start with Senator Rofles, the committee chair:

http://leg.wa.gov/Senate/Committees/WM/Pages/MembersStaff.aspx