Post by: cavemann on August 12, 2020, 09:19:20 AM
Do these things have a master computer module?? It doesn't seem like it does. There are only about 6-7 relays and 10 fuses. Any suggestions, I know electrical issues can be chasing ghost.
Post by: Sandberm on August 12, 2020, 09:37:03 AM
Post by: cavemann on August 12, 2020, 10:22:33 AM
It turns over and cranks, just wont fire up
Post by: Sutherland on August 12, 2020, 10:42:37 AM
Post by: cavemann on August 12, 2020, 10:58:39 AM
Post by: Buckhunter24 on August 12, 2020, 11:08:11 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 12, 2020, 11:44:01 AM
Post by: cavemann on August 12, 2020, 11:44:45 AM
Post by: 92xj on August 12, 2020, 11:48:10 AM
Also, is there a fuel rail with a valve at the end you can push in and get sprayed with fuel?
Does that year have a distributor for the spark plugs?
Post by: callturner on August 12, 2020, 11:53:08 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 12, 2020, 11:53:20 AM
no chip, its 2004 wrangler.. basically mid 80's technology. It's looking more and more like possible PCM
Rgr. Thought those TJs had coils.
Fuel pressure would a suspect
Post by: jackelope on August 12, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
no chip, its 2004 wrangler.. basically mid 80's technology. It's looking more and more like possible PCM
It's OBD2, not mid 80's technology. Mid 80's seats, but modern electronics. Chrysler calls the security keys "SKIM" keys(security key interface module) and plenty of Wranglers of that vintage have SKIM keys. Is the key black or gray? I will virtually guarantee you it's not a key problem, even if it does have a SKIM key.
What makes you think it's a bad PCM?
Also it should be a 2.5, right? Not a 2.4.
Does it have fuel pressure? You can see if you have fuel at the rail by depressing the schrader valve at the test port, but you won't be able to tell if it's adequate fuel pressure without a fuel pressure gauge.
Crank sensors are common issues. Might have a bad crank sensor.
If you're going to throw parts at it, I'd throw a crank sensor at it as a guess. Really without being able to check fuel pressure and/or check for fault codes, you're guessing.
Post by: bustedoldman on August 12, 2020, 12:07:44 PM
Post by: cavemann on August 12, 2020, 12:17:55 PM
Post by: cavemann on August 12, 2020, 12:35:38 PM
no chip, its 2004 wrangler.. basically mid 80's technology. It's looking more and more like possible PCM
It's OBD2, not mid 80's technology. Mid 80's seats, but modern electronics. Chrysler calls the security keys "SKIM" keys(security key interface module) and plenty of Wranglers of that vintage have SKIM keys. Is the key black or gray? I will virtually guarantee you it's not a key problem, even if it does have a SKIM key.
What makes you think it's a bad PCM?
Also it should be a 2.5, right? Not a 2.4.
Does it have fuel pressure? You can see if you have fuel at the rail by depressing the schrader valve at the test port, but you won't be able to tell if it's adequate fuel pressure without a fuel pressure gauge.
Crank sensors are common issues. Might have a bad crank sensor.
If you're going to throw parts at it, I'd throw a crank sensor at it as a guess. Really without being able to check fuel pressure and/or check for fault codes, you're guessing.
Thanks Jackelope. I was tongue in cheek about 80's tech. The key is not chipped, it's old school all metal key. Fuel issues seem to be what I need to confirm before anything else. I suspected the PCM because gauges don't work now even with key on and engine cranking. But, I'm not good with cars at all and going off of some youtube stuff with similar issues. We don't want to throw money at it but was thinking about seeing if I could find a PCM at junkyard for cheap as a hail Mary. I found some that can ship for $75. Going to give it my college try with all the suggestions on here so far.
Thanks again to you and everyone's ideas. Need to try these and see if I can narrow down a bit.
Post by: jackelope on August 12, 2020, 12:51:00 PM
The starting fluid/gas into the throttle body would be a quick way to tell if it's a fuel delivery issue. Spray a little in while someone is cranking the engine over and see what happens. If it starts briefly, you know you've got fuel delivery issues. More than likely a fuel pump. It would take me zero hands to count how many clogged fuel filters I've seen.
Post by: Buckmark on August 12, 2020, 12:57:08 PM
Yep a PCM will need to be programmed to the vehicle.
Fuel issue like others have mentioned, easy check.
Post by: Sutherland on August 12, 2020, 02:19:49 PM
Post by: cavemann on August 12, 2020, 03:47:41 PM
No start even with starter fluid..
The bigger issue that is the frustrating one is the gauges. A lot of videos on electrical issues with gauge cluster not working. with key in and cranking gauges don't work. they were fine. now that it won't start, gauges are bad as well. Leads me to believe they are related.
Post by: Buckmark on August 12, 2020, 04:15:44 PM
If you did it could be a bad part or you got a wire close to something that took a bit to short it out.
You said it was running for just a little while and flat died (like the key was shut off) now you have no ignition (did not fire off with starting fluid means no sparky) and no gauges activate with key on.
Check all those fuses, if you find one bad replace it and try again, if it fails disconnect the new Alt and try it again, if it does not fail viola...
Thats what i would be doing......actually i would be having my guys do it :chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on August 12, 2020, 04:27:42 PM
Doesn't that key have a gray head? If so it is a SKIM key. Do you have a spare to try?
Yep a PCM will need to be programmed to the vehicle.
Fuel issue like others have mentioned, easy check.
You're late to the skim key party, buddy.
:chuckle:
Post by: Buckmark on August 12, 2020, 04:31:48 PM
Yep saw he said it was not, but you know about people asking for diagnostics on HW are like.Doesn't that key have a gray head? If so it is a SKIM key. Do you have a spare to try?
Yep a PCM will need to be programmed to the vehicle.
Fuel issue like others have mentioned, easy check.
You're late to the skim key party, buddy.
:chuckle:
Atleast i did not try to change what engine he has :chuckle:
Post by: cavemann on August 13, 2020, 09:24:08 AM
So, the new alternator tested bad after trying to get it going. Neighbor is OK with cars and metered it thinking maybe got a bad one. O'Reiley's and Pep Boys bench test both said its bad. Battery tested good but will not take a good charge. Putting new battery and alternator in again today. Thinking there is a short or electrical issue frying both?? Funny story, her battery was stolen while she was at work about 9 months ago so it should have been fine. Had never been run dead. Alternator was replaced 2 years ago. Seems odd both could be failing being relatively new.
Grounds at PCM plug tested good, all frame grounds are good after pulling off and I cleaned good anyway. It's getting fuel.
Alternators are warrantied so money lost there. Just $150 in with the battery. It's looking like it might be a lost cause if it gets too involved, not looking to throw a ton of money at it.
2004 Jeep Wrangler SE 2.4L (man. 5) (model since mid-year 2003 for North America U.S.) car specifications & performance data review
Specs datasheet with technical data and performance data plus an analysis of the direct market competition of Jeep Wrangler SE 2.4L (man. 5) in 2004 the model with 2-door sport-utility soft-top body and Line-4 2429 cm3 / 148 cui engine size, 109.5 kW / 149 PS / 147 hp (SAE net) of power, 224 Nm / 165 lb-ft of torque, 5-speed manual powertrain offered since mid-year 2003 for North America U.S.. Specifications listing with the outside and inside dimensions, fuel economy, top speed, performance factory data and ProfessCars™ estimation: this Jeep would accelerate 0-60 mph in 9.8 sec, 0-100 km/h in 10.5 sec and quarter mile time is 17.4 sec.
Post by: Buckmark on August 13, 2020, 09:31:43 AM
On a side note, if you throw in the towel and want to get rid of it my step daughter wants a jeep wrangler and im looking for a project one (like i need more projects :rolleyes :)
Post by: Woodchuck on August 13, 2020, 09:43:50 AM
:twocents:
Or a main fuse blown from a jump start.
:twocents:
That's my SWAG anyway. :dunno:
Post by: cavemann on August 13, 2020, 09:48:16 AM
You did check all the fuses etc in the PDC correct?
On a side note, if you throw in the towel and want to get rid of it my step daughter wants a jeep wrangler and im looking for a project one (like i need more projects :rolleyes :)
If you are interested I'll let you know. Her mom just put new allterain tires on and black wheels. It's yellow hard top.
Post by: cavemann on August 13, 2020, 09:49:08 AM
https://www.amazon.com/APDTY-56041552AD-Crankshaft-2002-2003-2003-2004/dp/B006ZO3066
:twocents:
Or a main fuse blown from a jump start.
:twocents:
That's my SWAG anyway. :dunno:
Thanks Woodchuck!! Would you know, if this was bad would it still crank?
Post by: Woodchuck on August 13, 2020, 09:57:21 AM
Post by: cavemann on August 13, 2020, 10:01:09 AM
Yes it would, it kills spark and injector pulse when they die. You will also not see the tach(if it has one) move while cranking. The fact that none of your gauges move KOEO is a little odd to me but crank sensor is very common.
This is sounding promising.. Going to track one down. Thanks!!!!!
Post by: ballpark on August 13, 2020, 10:09:53 AM
P0336 Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Signal Problem with voltage signal from CKP
P0387 Crankshaft Position Sensor Supply Voltage Too Low CKP sensor voltage input below the minimum acceptable voltage.
P0388 Crankshaft Position Sensor Supply Voltage Too High
https://www.quadratec.com/jeep_knowledgebase/article-39.htm
Post by: cavemann on August 13, 2020, 12:06:33 PM
Are you throwing codes? OBDII reader?
P0336 Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor Signal Problem with voltage signal from CKP
P0387 Crankshaft Position Sensor Supply Voltage Too Low CKP sensor voltage input below the minimum acceptable voltage.
P0388 Crankshaft Position Sensor Supply Voltage Too High
https://www.quadratec.com/jeep_knowledgebase/article-39.htm
trying to track one down without buying one.. but might be time to just get one. Can't get it to store/shop for reading
Post by: Buckmark on August 13, 2020, 12:18:50 PM
Post by: jackelope on August 13, 2020, 12:22:58 PM
Yes it would, it kills spark and injector pulse when they die. You will also not see the tach(if it has one) move while cranking. The fact that none of your gauges move KOEO is a little odd to me but crank sensor is very common.
Extra points for fancy acronyms.
Post by: jackelope on August 13, 2020, 12:24:56 PM
You guys crack me up... For what its worth, the motor cover says 2.4L.. My 2004 I had years ago was 2.4 and below are some specs. I'm just going off of that. Tried spare key and original and yes both are bare metal no chip keys. In fairness, yes I'm coming to HW for help and by no means a mechanic so deserve all the ribbing!! :chuckle:
So, the new alternator tested bad after trying to get it going. Neighbor is OK with cars and metered it thinking maybe got a bad one. O'Reiley's and Pep Boys bench test both said its bad. Battery tested good but will not take a good charge. Putting new battery and alternator in again today. Thinking there is a short or electrical issue frying both?? Funny story, her battery was stolen while she was at work about 9 months ago so it should have been fine. Had never been run dead. Alternator was replaced 2 years ago. Seems odd both could be failing being relatively new.
Grounds at PCM plug tested good, all frame grounds are good after pulling off and I cleaned good anyway. It's getting fuel.
Alternators are warrantied so money lost there. Just $150 in with the battery. It's looking like it might be a lost cause if it gets too involved, not looking to throw a ton of money at it.
2004 Jeep Wrangler SE 2.4L (man. 5) (model since mid-year 2003 for North America U.S.) car specifications & performance data review
Specs datasheet with technical data and performance data plus an analysis of the direct market competition of Jeep Wrangler SE 2.4L (man. 5) in 2004 the model with 2-door sport-utility soft-top body and Line-4 2429 cm3 / 148 cui engine size, 109.5 kW / 149 PS / 147 hp (SAE net) of power, 224 Nm / 165 lb-ft of torque, 5-speed manual powertrain offered since mid-year 2003 for North America U.S.. Specifications listing with the outside and inside dimensions, fuel economy, top speed, performance factory data and ProfessCars™ estimation: this Jeep would accelerate 0-60 mph in 9.8 sec, 0-100 km/h in 10.5 sec and quarter mile time is 17.4 sec.
Apologies from me. It's a 2.4. I think if it was a year older it would have been a 2.5. Maybe 2 years older.
My bad.
Post by: Woodchuck on August 13, 2020, 12:27:43 PM
That's why I got the avatar, 8)Yes it would, it kills spark and injector pulse when they die. You will also not see the tach(if it has one) move while cranking. The fact that none of your gauges move KOEO is a little odd to me but crank sensor is very common.
Extra points for fancy acronyms.
Post by: Buckmark on August 13, 2020, 12:39:42 PM
Would of been cooler if he used CKP also :chuckle:Yes it would, it kills spark and injector pulse when they die. You will also not see the tach(if it has one) move while cranking. The fact that none of your gauges move KOEO is a little odd to me but crank sensor is very common.
Extra points for fancy acronyms.
Post by: Rutnbuxnbulls on August 13, 2020, 12:41:08 PM
Post by: cavemann on August 13, 2020, 02:49:50 PM
Post by: cavemann on August 13, 2020, 02:51:16 PM
Apologies from me. It's a 2.4. I think if it was a year older it would have been a 2.5. Maybe 2 years older.
My bad.
[/quote]
No apologies needed. I was ribbing you back. You guys are awesome, thanks for all the help/suggestions.. And PM's offering help as well. You know who you are.
Post by: Buckmark on August 13, 2020, 03:16:13 PM
So, it is running... Crank Sensor was the trick!! Thanks Woodchuck!!!:tup: Glad to hear, did the gauges come back alive?
Post by: Woodchuck on August 13, 2020, 03:43:24 PM
So, it is running... Crank Sensor was the trick!! Thanks Woodchuck!!!Good news. :tup: Giving credit where it is due, The antlered rabbit called it earlier.. :hello:
Post by: Buckmark on August 13, 2020, 03:46:18 PM
Now his head wont fit through the door... :chuckle: but he did call it earlySo, it is running... Crank Sensor was the trick!! Thanks Woodchuck!!!Good news. :tup: Giving credit where it is due, The antlered rabbit called it earlier.. :hello:
Post by: cavemann on August 13, 2020, 03:48:23 PM
Post by: jackelope on August 13, 2020, 05:19:13 PM
.
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 13, 2020, 05:48:43 PM
#Toyota
:stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot:
Post by: Sandberm on August 13, 2020, 06:53:56 PM
Pretty sure if i started a thread about my Chevy S-10 having some issues it would not get to 3 pages in responses.
Carcists!
Post by: jackelope on August 13, 2020, 08:49:30 PM
I think there is some systemic carsism going on here!
Pretty sure if i started a thread about my Chevy S-10 having some issues it would not get to 3 pages in responses.
Carcists!
It needs the injector replaced. And the intake resealed.
Post by: Caseyd on August 13, 2020, 09:11:45 PM
I think there is some systemic carsism going on here!
Pretty sure if i started a thread about my Chevy S-10 having some issues it would not get to 3 pages in responses.
Carcists!
V8 swap
It needs the injector replaced. And the intake resealed.
Post by: Buckmark on August 13, 2020, 09:36:12 PM
It still runs :yike:
S10’s made a few mortage payments cause of those
Post by: Sandberm on August 14, 2020, 07:52:32 AM
I think there is some systemic carsism going on here!
Pretty sure if i started a thread about my Chevy S-10 having some issues it would not get to 3 pages in responses.
Carcists!
It needs the injector replaced. And the intake resealed.
I enjoyed doing that intake manifold gasket job so much I did it twice! :rolleyes:...second time I made sure and put the metal gasket from Felpro in instead of the rubber one...
And if i read one more post from a Toyota owner who said they have 300,000 miles on their Tacoma and all they have replaced is the tires I will have a melt down. >:(
Get your jeep running?
Post by: jackelope on August 14, 2020, 08:29:30 AM
Post by: coachcw on August 14, 2020, 09:30:13 PM
Post by: kball4 on August 20, 2020, 12:56:16 PM