Post by: Utah on August 20, 2020, 08:19:20 PM
Post by: fowl smacker on August 20, 2020, 08:33:40 PM
Post by: Utah on August 20, 2020, 10:10:50 PM
Post by: Romulus1297 on August 20, 2020, 10:35:26 PM
Post by: fowl smacker on August 21, 2020, 05:43:38 AM
Is there an advantage to 115’s?I mainly use 115's for consistency. The target ammo I shoot are 115, so I keep it that way for my self defense. Not that going heavier is going to change much at self defense ranges, but I like consistency.
Post by: SGTDuffman on August 21, 2020, 05:54:48 AM
Post by: 300rum on August 21, 2020, 06:54:24 AM
Post by: jasnt on August 21, 2020, 08:05:01 PM
Post by: Badhabit on August 25, 2020, 04:51:02 PM
For a OMG that's huge look at the .45ACP expansion results. Holy cow 1", that will leave a mark.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
Post by: magnanimous_j on August 25, 2020, 05:56:58 PM
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
This is a fantastic resource and the takeaway is that almost all the defense ammo in the "service caliber" range: .380 through .45 ACP is going to do the job just fine. No pistol is a one-hit death ray and you also wouldn't want to get shot with any of them.
Gold Dot is good stuff. If your gun likes it, use it.
Post by: JJB11B on August 25, 2020, 06:02:08 PM
Post by: Stein on August 25, 2020, 06:09:31 PM
Many LE organizations will only use one of a very few choices, they go with what the big departments spec out.
From that, I only consider ammo that has been used and documented and proven. I think there are many other good choices, but they haven't and likely won't ever be proven because the use cases are so small relatively. I placed zero credibility on jello tests, phone books, milk jugs, cow bones or whatever else has been thought up.
The ammo is often very expensive and somewhat difficult to find, but a small box or two will last a very long time. Run a magazine or two to verify operation in your mag/gun combo and then rest assured you did the best preparation possible. I went an extra step and ran a couple of tests with near full and near empty mags and limp wrist, but there is only so much you can do. My view is to find something that is known to work and then go about your business.
Post by: Bango skank on August 25, 2020, 06:38:06 PM
From my perspective, it isn't like hunting ammo where there are hundreds of thousands of cases every year along with personal experience. 99.9% of people won't ever use self defense ammo. Thus, the only thing available is very thin data virtually exclusively from LEO encounters where sufficient documentation exists.
Many LE organizations will only use one of a very few choices, they go with what the big departments spec out.
From that, I only consider ammo that has been used and documented and proven. I think there are many other good choices, but they haven't and likely won't ever be proven because the use cases are so small relatively. I placed zero credibility on jello tests, phone books, milk jugs, cow bones or whatever else has been thought up.
The ammo is often very expensive and somewhat difficult to find, but a small box or two will last a very long time. Run a magazine or two to verify operation in your mag/gun combo and then rest assured you did the best preparation possible. I went an extra step and ran a couple of tests with near full and near empty mags and limp wrist, but there is only so much you can do. My view is to find something that is known to work and then go about your business.
Well said
Post by: C-Money on August 26, 2020, 08:52:21 AM
Post by: stlusn30-06 on August 26, 2020, 11:17:57 AM
Post by: Igor on August 26, 2020, 11:35:17 AM
I went back and forth with a guy that does testing for the FBI and a bunch of other LEO services. Specifically he tests how deadly specific rounds are, how they perform in various conditions, penetrate armor, etc...He recommended Winchester Ranger 127gr +p+ for 9mm. So that is what I use. For what it's worth.
Winchester Ranger is used by a number of law enforcement agencies. I have a number of boxes of Ranger 9mm, and it is marked Law Enforcement Ammunition right on the box.
Post by: Stein on August 26, 2020, 12:01:41 PM
I went back and forth with a guy that does testing for the FBI and a bunch of other LEO services. Specifically he tests how deadly specific rounds are, how they perform in various conditions, penetrate armor, etc...He recommended Winchester Ranger 127gr +p+ for 9mm. So that is what I use. For what it's worth.
Winchester Ranger is used by a number of law enforcement agencies. I have a number of boxes of Ranger 9mm, and it is marked Law Enforcement Ammunition right on the box.
I use that in one of my handguns, but it doesn't load well in the other 9mm I have. The bullets are a bit longer and different shaped than most and every once in a while it would hang up on the lip of the hollow point when feeding. It's actually the only bullet that gun has ever had a problem with and I've probably put at least 20-30 different bullet types through it - factory and reloads shooting IDPA several years ago.
Post by: stlusn30-06 on August 26, 2020, 12:16:24 PM
I went back and forth with a guy that does testing for the FBI and a bunch of other LEO services. Specifically he tests how deadly specific rounds are, how they perform in various conditions, penetrate armor, etc...He recommended Winchester Ranger 127gr +p+ for 9mm. So that is what I use. For what it's worth.
Winchester Ranger is used by a number of law enforcement agencies. I have a number of boxes of Ranger 9mm, and it is marked Law Enforcement Ammunition right on the box.
I use that in one of my handguns, but it doesn't load well in the other 9mm I have. The bullets are a bit longer and different shaped than most and every once in a while it would hang up on the lip of the hollow point when feeding. It's actually the only bullet that gun has ever had a problem with and I've probably put at least 20-30 different bullet types through it - factory and reloads shooting IDPA several years ago.
That is interesting. +p+ will also throw certain guns off, and many are not rated to run it. A lot of pressure, slide racks super fast. I've put a 150, or so, of them through my 19 w out issue. But good call out in general. Not everything acts the same. Get time in with what you are planning on carrying.