Post by: Blacktail135 on October 04, 2020, 06:32:03 PM
Post by: Lucky1 on October 04, 2020, 06:41:05 PM
Post by: buckfvr on October 04, 2020, 06:54:35 PM
When I finally caught up with the two causing the most grief for my neighbor and her lambs this past spring, first was at 389 yards other was 517. I rarely get shots under 350, so yes challenging and fun. Ive removed 6 of her problem yotes in the last year, ,many sightings, few shot opportunities.
Post by: Bob33 on October 04, 2020, 06:58:22 PM
Post by: Hilltop123 on October 04, 2020, 06:58:51 PM
Post by: nwwanderer on October 04, 2020, 07:48:19 PM
Post by: Blacktail135 on October 05, 2020, 08:31:36 AM
Seeing them and killing them are two entirely different things. Very challenging once you make up your mind to kill them. First one may seem easy but each subsequent dog will be more difficult.Hoping to shoot only singles and to make sure I get that one. One at a time. I don’t want to educate any of them. I’ve got 180 degrees of shooting ops from house out to 350 yds. Could shoot out to 900 yds if I shoot on neighbors place (which he wouldn’t mind) but minimal backstops and chance of miss and educate too high. Thanks for reply.
When I finally caught up with the two causing the most grief for my neighbor and her lambs this past spring, first was at 389 yards other was 517. I rarely get shots under 350, so yes challenging and fun. Ive removed 6 of her problem yotes in the last year, ,many sightings, few shot opportunities.
Post by: Blacktail135 on October 05, 2020, 08:32:29 AM
What do you do with them when you kill a mouse or rat?Good point. 🙂 Thanks.
Post by: Blacktail135 on October 05, 2020, 08:33:45 AM
Well as unpleasent as it sounds, I hang the whole coyote on the fence. Granted, I'm the only one that will see it. But I'm a firm believer in that when coyotes see dead freinds, displayed they steer clear. We have never lost a cat, chicken, calf or any other animal to coyotes. Matter of fact, we very rarely see an adult dog, only young of the year. And I clean them up when they show.Good idea. Didn’t think of that. Thanks.
Post by: Blacktail135 on October 05, 2020, 08:35:41 AM
The good news it is great fun trying. The bad news is the more you kill the more pups they have. Certainly worth keeping some fear in them. Pelts are like hay prices, up and down and quality is everything. Good luck!!Don’t care to skin them. Like the hay analogy! 🙂 Thanks.
Post by: millerwheeler on October 05, 2020, 09:55:55 AM
Post by: konradcountry on November 04, 2020, 07:33:56 PM
The bad news is the more you kill the more pups they have.
That is what environmentalists tell us but it doesn't make any sense. Perhaps it is true that if you shoot the alpha female then the beta will have more pups. Well there isn't always another female and if you shoot both females then there won't be more pups. In some areas the packs are isolated and don't have access to other coyotes.
Environmentalists say the same thing about wolves but also tell us that hunting will reduce their numbers.
Not convinced.
Post by: Jingles on November 04, 2020, 07:47:52 PM
Post by: Norman89 on November 05, 2020, 07:24:04 PM
Post by: Lucky1 on November 05, 2020, 07:53:52 PM
I agree. How can killing them make more of them. We manage the deer population by killing a bunch of them every year. Does it not work the same with coyotes?The bad news is the more you kill the more pups they have.
That is what environmentalists tell us but it doesn't make any sense. Perhaps it is true that if you shoot the alpha female then the beta will have more pups. Well there isn't always another female and if you shoot both females then there won't be more pups. In some areas the packs are isolated and don't have access to other coyotes.
Environmentalists say the same thing about wolves but also tell us that hunting will reduce their numbers.
Not convinced.
I would like to see the study that scientifically proves that they have more pups when the population is lower and how that will make the population of coyotes grow.
I shoot all of them that I can in my neighborhood. I feel like I am helping keep the population down. I know that every one that I kill will not be able to kill our little dog or any cats, or fawns.
Post by: BlackRiverTaxidermy on November 05, 2020, 09:03:29 PM
I think that is a total coincidence of environmental situations when I hear about ‘the more you shoot the more pups they have’. Here’s what I mean....just like some of their primary food source (rabbits, voles/mice, etc) they is rotational population cycles for good years. Typically you get a rabbit boom every 3-5 years and it seems that either that year or definitely the following, the coyotes population is incredible. I’ve heard the ‘shoot some and more pop up’ and I think it’s due to more being shot because their numbers are already on a rise due to nutrition which then lays the groundwork for high litter numbers and frequency. Therefore more yotes getting shot due to raised population secondary to good nutrition appears as tho they produce more when their getting killed. Hope that makes sense. I agree, would like to see the scientific proof of more breeding secondary to yotes getting shot. I think it more lends to better conditions means more breeding this higher numbers and harvest kills appearing like they are breeding more when bullets fly. LolI agree. How can killing them make more of them. We manage the deer population by killing a bunch of them every year. Does it not work the same with coyotes?The bad news is the more you kill the more pups they have.
That is what environmentalists tell us but it doesn't make any sense. Perhaps it is true that if you shoot the alpha female then the beta will have more pups. Well there isn't always another female and if you shoot both females then there won't be more pups. In some areas the packs are isolated and don't have access to other coyotes.
Environmentalists say the same thing about wolves but also tell us that hunting will reduce their numbers.
Not convinced.
I would like to see the study that scientifically proves that they have more pups when the population is lower and how that will make the population of coyotes grow.
I shoot all of them that I can in my neighborhood. I feel like I am helping keep the population down. I know that every one that I kill will not be able to kill our little dog or any cats, or fawns.
Post by: nwwanderer on November 07, 2020, 05:27:44 AM
Post by: MHWASH on November 08, 2020, 03:21:08 PM
The good news it is great fun trying. The bad news is the more you kill the more pups they have. Certainly worth keeping some fear in them. Pelts are like hay prices, up and down and quality is everything. Good luck!!
It’s called carrying capacity. If you kill 5, there will 5 more to replace them the following year. Same with deer/elk. It’s just a lot harder to do with coyotes. In order to make an impact on coyote populations, you need to over 10% of the population in their home range.
Post by: konradcountry on December 22, 2020, 11:00:03 AM
Boat load of coyote research out there, might start with Guy Connolly. Have read a fair bit but mostly have watched the dogs and research mostly agrees, when coyote numbers are down pup numbers go up. Whether you shot them, mange wiped out a bunch, distemper killed them, parvo showed up or APHIS was involved coyotes are amazing at filling as void
I honestly haven't seen any good research on this. The articles I have read source the same study from an anti-wolf hunting scientist and just assume it is true for coyotes.
The big problem I see is in assuming that coyotes are all in packs. That isn't the case. In urban areas there will sometimes only be a pair. If you shoot a female there is no guarantee that one is available to take its place and have more pups. If shooting them always increased their numbers then we would hear about farmers with hundreds of them.
Like I said before there is contradictory statement being made by environmentalists. There tell us that hunting almost wiped out wolves but that we shouldn't hunt them because it actually increases their numbers. That doesn't make any sense.
When Idaho reopened wolf hunting the environmentalists said that hunting could take them back to being endangered. In fact the pro-wolf side changed their justification for wanting to end hunting. First they said the numbers were too low and then later they said well the numbers look good on paper but a buffer is now needed because their population is so sensitive to hunting.
It all stinks to high heaven.
Post by: ThomMedic on December 22, 2020, 11:13:37 AM
Post by: nwwanderer on December 22, 2020, 11:35:52 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 22, 2020, 11:51:06 AM
I shoot a LOT of them from my place and yes the numbers never really seem to go down much. However, I've noticed they seem less packed-up and confrontational after the mature males are shot. We had a pack that was taunting and luring our dogs and passing through our yard on a routine basis. I shot the big male that was deep chested and rounder of tooth and we never heard from them again. Other hand, once we had a taunting pack and I shot the decoy (male of the year - odd because it's usually a bitch). That pack kept coming around until I'd shot an older female a week later.
I think the pack dynamics depend on the mature animals and if I can keep it a revolving door of younger coyotes, so much the better for the deer and domestic dogs. They pack up pretty hard with the winter cold but after a few big ones get shot, it's more often that I seem them alone and mousing.
Post by: JakeLand on December 22, 2020, 12:13:06 PM
I have coyote problems where small livestock, dogs and cats have been picked off over the years.thanks for the insight ! It makes sense to me take out the Alpha and scatters the rest
I shoot a LOT of them from my place and yes the numbers never really seem to go down much. However, I've noticed they seem less packed-up and confrontational after the mature males are shot. We had a pack that was taunting and luring our dogs and passing through our yard on a routine basis. I shot the big male that was deep chested and rounder of tooth and we never heard from them again. Other hand, once we had a taunting pack and I shot the decoy (male of the year - odd because it's usually a bitch). That pack kept coming around until I'd shot an older female a week later.
I think the pack dynamics depend on the mature animals and if I can keep it a revolving door of younger coyotes, so much the better for the deer and domestic dogs. They pack up pretty hard with the winter cold but after a few big ones get shot, it's more often that I seem them alone and mousing.
Post by: WSU on December 22, 2020, 12:55:45 PM
They are smart cookies!
Post by: konradcountry on December 22, 2020, 11:51:23 PM
Well how do know if you killed the alpha female? Odds are you didn't. This argument also makes a strange assumption that you just kill one female and then you are done hunting. Wouldn't the conclusion be that you need to either kill at least 2 females or not hunt them?
It just seems awfully convenient. Killing them increases their population? So doing nothing will reduce their population? How did their population expand in the first place?
The anti-hunting Humane Society makes this argument and they don't provide a source.
https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/why-killing-coyotes-doesnt-work
Smells like BS.
Post by: idaho guy on December 23, 2020, 05:35:58 AM
The anti-hunting argument is that they have more pups if you kill the alpha female.
Well how do know if you killed the alpha female? Odds are you didn't. This argument also makes a strange assumption that you just kill one female and then you are done hunting. Wouldn't the conclusion be that you need to either kill at least 2 females or not hunt them?
It just seems awfully convenient. Killing them increases their population? So doing nothing will reduce their population? How did their population expand in the first place?
The anti-hunting Humane Society makes this argument and they don't provide a source.
https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/why-killing-coyotes-doesnt-work
Smells like BS.
Wow so killing coyotes increase there numbers ha ha that’s so ridiculous it gives me a headache :chuckle I seen that same type of argument used on another predator. It’s kinda like their argument of hunting lions leads to more problem lions. It’s hard to believe they have the guts to say that stuff out loud much less print it.
An old freind of mine who ran a huge ranch in Idaho always told me if we shoot every coyote we see maybe we will keep their numbers the same as last year. Coyotes are just pretty amazing animals with their ability to adapt and survive. I have seen for a fact trapping coyotes you can reduce numbers to almost nothing but they always rebuild in a few years.
Post by: Onewhohikes on December 23, 2020, 07:06:18 AM
Post by: Kain on December 23, 2020, 04:46:02 PM
At some point though the hunting pressure will outpace reproduction. It would just take killing lots more than most areas get and would probably need trapping and hunting to reach that level of population control. The argument from anti hunters is that is a reason to stop hunting them. An unhunted population will mean more competition for resources, fighting, smaller litters, lower pup survival and disease spread. Pretty *censored*ty to wish that on coyotes in my opinion. Better to harvest the abundant resource leaving healthier more people weary coyotes behind.
Post by: KFhunter on December 23, 2020, 04:54:13 PM
You kill the adults and the pups get dumber, so you see more, so you think there are more.
Its like wolves, they enter an area then a few years later..."OMG there's more elk than ever!" ya no, you're just seeing more.
You wanna slaughter a herd of elk take out the lead cow and they all run around stupid letting you kill more.
The older yotes dominate areas and keep others out, you kill a few suddenly there's a vacuum. You've upset the balance.
Just gotta keep at it, there were more than you thought all along
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: Alchase on December 23, 2020, 06:51:09 PM
The anti-hunting argument is that they have more pups if you kill the alpha female.
Well how do know if you killed the alpha female? Odds are you didn't. This argument also makes a strange assumption that you just kill one female and then you are done hunting. Wouldn't the conclusion be that you need to either kill at least 2 females or not hunt them?
It just seems awfully convenient. Killing them increases their population? So doing nothing will reduce their population? How did their population expand in the first place?
The anti-hunting Humane Society makes this argument and they don't provide a source.
https://www.humanesociety.org/resources/why-killing-coyotes-doesnt-work
Smells like BS.
Causation without correlation!
Or just typical liberal BS or like the WDFW describing what it takes to acknowledge a pack of wolves.
So shoot 3 or 4 (even better all) females in the pack. Then no females left, to have litters.
Since I could not tell you how to identify the females, just shoot them all.
Problem solved even if it is temporary before another pack comes in, the deer, elk, and other critters will thank you!
:tup:
Post by: konradcountry on December 24, 2020, 06:52:55 AM
So shoot 3 or 4 (even better all) females in the pack. Then no females left, to have litters.
Since I could not tell you how to identify the females, just shoot them all.
Problem solved even if it is temporary before another pack comes in, the deer, elk, and other critters will thank you!
And you can shoot females in the new pack as well. That is why this argument stinks. It assumes you went and shot the alpha female and now there is nothing else you can do.
In semi-urban area it could take a while to get a new pack or breeding pair since a lot of these areas are isolated by highways.
Post by: idaho guy on December 24, 2020, 09:21:56 AM
Killing more leads to more coyotes..,to a point. In some cases that is true but its not so linear. LOTS of coyotes in an area compete for resources. That can lead to more stress and less food. In turn leading to smaller litter sizes. So you kill off a few coyotes in an area. Well that means more resources for the ones that are left and litter sizes increase. More resources can lead to better pup survival rates and so on.
At some point though the hunting pressure will outpace reproduction. It would just take killing lots more than most areas get and would probably need trapping and hunting to reach that level of population control. The argument from anti hunters is that is a reason to stop hunting them. An unhunted population will mean more competition for resources, fighting, smaller litters, lower pup survival and disease spread. Pretty *censored*ty to wish that on coyotes in my opinion. Better to harvest the abundant resource leaving healthier more people weary coyotes behind.
thats the real point :tup: not that killing 1 or 2 might actually lead to larger litters(can be true). You have to shoot more coyotes not less and the population will be controlled and the deer and elk will thank you. The surviving coyotes should thank us too :chuckle: I have seen enough coyotes with bad mange and I gaurantee they would rather take a bullet to the head. The argument that hunting coyotes leads to more coyotes is absurd. Maybe ineffecient hunting where you dont kill enough could lead to temporarily larger litters mother nature will solve that problem with a mange outbreak among other diseases.
Post by: hunter399 on December 24, 2020, 10:06:38 AM
You guys talk as if we need coyote mangement.
Only good coyote is a dead one.
Post by: buckfvr on December 24, 2020, 10:36:16 AM