Post by: BA Mongor on November 01, 2020, 01:42:56 PM
To the (2) young guys and (1) middle age guy, Sierra doesn't allow e-bikes. Even though you both had Weyerhauser access permits which gets you closer to prime Sierra land, it's not legal to use them on Sierra thinking you won't get caught.
And, I highly doubt that both you kids had drive in Weyerhaeuser permits. So, that means you probably loaded up your buddy and road your fancy, new orange and black e-bikes from the gate. And your lies about you not knowing, and saying Hancock allows it were lies, you knew it and I told you.
For the other guy I caught in there, telling me it was ok as well, I talked with both Sierra and Weyerhaeuser and I'm looking forward to you all getting caught and getting your bikes taken and hopefully permits taken as well. If a 60-year old guy can walk in 3-9 miles so can you!!!
Post by: teanawayslayer on November 01, 2020, 01:52:19 PM
Post by: Sundance on November 01, 2020, 02:15:49 PM
Post by: MADMAX on November 01, 2020, 02:57:23 PM
if it’s an issue pictures are worth taking
:twocents:
Post by: trophyhunt on November 01, 2020, 03:03:50 PM
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on November 01, 2020, 03:05:51 PM
I can guarantee they wouldn’t be taking my e bike, I follow the rules anyway, but if I didn’t and the security caught me, they can have my sticker and that’s it.
:chuckle: Yea they can’t steal people’s bikes. People should follow the rules, but security isn’t able to seize someone’s property.
Post by: Wazukie on November 01, 2020, 03:09:04 PM
Post by: Stein on November 01, 2020, 03:12:42 PM
Post by: BA Mongor on November 01, 2020, 03:27:16 PM
I don't own a phone. But I do know both of the security guys who patrol for both companies.
As far as not being able to take your bike, I realize it they can't, but it sure would be nice. As far as taking a sticker, not sure what that means? What sticker? If it was legal to remove it from your possession Trophy, then they would take it ! To bad there are no reprucussions for blatantly breaking the rules.
And I own a very nice M2S e-bike and would love to take it in there...But can't.
Post by: trophyhunt on November 01, 2020, 04:25:46 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on November 01, 2020, 04:31:14 PM
Post by: actionshooter on November 01, 2020, 07:00:17 PM
Post by: Stein on November 01, 2020, 07:39:36 PM
I don’t think e bikes are that big of an advantage, not what people think. Before I owned one I also thought they were like motor cycles, not even close. I had to pedal the whole way when I got my deer this weekend, battery died 4 miles in because the steepness and my cart. Still took 1.5 hours to get to the top, 5 miles in. I don’t take it where I’m not supposed to, but feel like I should when I’m in a walk in only gate and trucks drive by me.
Honestly, I don't care that guys are getting somewhere before me. E-bikes aren't the same as a guy in a quad running all over every trail and road at half throttle all day nonstop. Either way, it's poor form to break the law but one messes up my hunt and the other one is just that guy.
I would also bet that a large chunk of the access to private land that gets shut off (not including sales of property) is because the landowner is tired of misbehavior like trash, tracks around gates, ripping up off trail ground, getting calls and complaints and the like.
Post by: High Climber on November 01, 2020, 08:10:54 PM
Post by: furbearer365 on November 01, 2020, 08:24:50 PM
Post by: BA Mongor on November 02, 2020, 07:34:03 AM
I get that e-bikes are far less of an impact, but it doesn't really matter. They don't allow it. And as far as it not really being an advantage to using one, I totally disagree. I would love to cruise back to my areas doing 20mph-30mph, bone out my deer and make a couple of very fast trips with my e-bike, versus boning it out and packing it out by foot. :twocents:
Post by: Akroyd on November 03, 2020, 10:40:46 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on November 03, 2020, 10:44:40 AM
If there is state land (state of Washington is okay with E-bikes) beyond these gates that the timber company's have control of I will use the right-of-way or easement to get to said state land on my E-bike. I'm sorry if I ride by someone and you get mad but I'm tired of all this state land being land locked that is to far to get to by walking. If I get in trouble so be it. There is a RCW for e-bike use on state land.nice, I never thought of that! I'll have to do some searching for state land in Hancock or other properties! Thanks
Post by: Sundance on November 03, 2020, 10:48:24 AM
If there is state land (state of Washington is okay with E-bikes) beyond these gates that the timber company's have control of I will use the right-of-way or easement to get to said state land on my E-bike. I'm sorry if I ride by someone and you get mad but I'm tired of all this state land being land locked that is to far to get to by walking. If I get in trouble so be it. There is a RCW for e-bike use on state land.
So if there is a postage stamp of state land behind a timber company gate, you are ok with taking your ebike behind the gate? Will you then hunt animals on the private timber company land that you used the ebike for access or only restrict yourself to hunting the state land since you used the ebike?
*edit*
I ask because there is a spot I hunt where there is a 600 acre parcel of state land in the middle of thousands of acres of private timber company. I ride my pedal bike in 14 miles which takes me 3+ hours and spike out on the state land for a day or so to hunt. I then hunt the private timber company land that's 10+ miles from the gates and and legally camping on state land.
Post by: b0bbyg on November 03, 2020, 10:53:28 AM
I don't have an Ebike…. yet, but I know if 2 areas where there is a mile or so of timber land that blocks access to a lot of state land. I would ride through these and hunt the state land in a heart beat if there was any sort of easement. In this case it might be that the blocked land allows ebikes so non issue, but I would not have a problem with people doing this if they hunted the state land.If there is state land (state of Washington is okay with E-bikes) beyond these gates that the timber company's have control of I will use the right-of-way or easement to get to said state land on my E-bike. I'm sorry if I ride by someone and you get mad but I'm tired of all this state land being land locked that is to far to get to by walking. If I get in trouble so be it. There is a RCW for e-bike use on state land.
So if there is a postage stamp of state land behind a timber company gate, you are ok will with taking your ebike behind the gate? Will you then hunt animals on the private timber company land that you used the ebike for access or only restrict yourself to hunting the state land since you used the ebike?
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on November 03, 2020, 11:00:49 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 03, 2020, 11:05:44 AM
Curious if there are timber companies that allow e bikes behind their gates?If they're operated as a motorized vehicle--CB, fire gear, speed limit, decals and only stay on the roads used by cars.
Post by: pd on November 03, 2020, 11:52:10 AM
I don't have an Ebike…. yet, but I know if 2 areas where there is a mile or so of timber land that blocks access to a lot of state land. I would ride through these and hunt the state land in a heart beat if there was any sort of easement. In this case it might be that the blocked land allows ebikes so non issue, but I would not have a problem with people doing this if they hunted the state land.If there is state land (state of Washington is okay with E-bikes) beyond these gates that the timber company's have control of I will use the right-of-way or easement to get to said state land on my E-bike. I'm sorry if I ride by someone and you get mad but I'm tired of all this state land being land locked that is to far to get to by walking. If I get in trouble so be it. There is a RCW for e-bike use on state land.
So if there is a postage stamp of state land behind a timber company gate, you are ok will with taking your ebike behind the gate? Will you then hunt animals on the private timber company land that you used the ebike for access or only restrict yourself to hunting the state land since you used the ebike?
All of you guys raise really interesting points. This is actually a much bigger issue (not just regarding e-bikes), but a question about easements and rights-of-way. Not every logging road (behind a gate on private timber land) will have an easement. And not every road will have a public right-of-way. There are very clear legal definitions as to what those are.
The next question comes from the discussion above. "Can a private timber company, with a gate on their logging road, restrict the use of e-bikes on said logging road if that road has an easement or a known public right-of-way, when the destination of the e-bike rider is public land?"
Interesting question. I would love to know the answer.
Post by: Stein on November 03, 2020, 11:52:39 AM
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Post by: trophyhunt on November 03, 2020, 12:34:38 PM
Curious if there are timber companies that allow e bikes behind their gates?Hancock doesn't even allow e bikes in your truck on their property.
Post by: trophyhunt on November 03, 2020, 12:36:24 PM
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: We need to research this and then PM each other!!! It would be a good secret to have, then all a sudden e bike haters would be like, "oh I love my ebike"!I don't have an Ebike…. yet, but I know if 2 areas where there is a mile or so of timber land that blocks access to a lot of state land. I would ride through these and hunt the state land in a heart beat if there was any sort of easement. In this case it might be that the blocked land allows ebikes so non issue, but I would not have a problem with people doing this if they hunted the state land.If there is state land (state of Washington is okay with E-bikes) beyond these gates that the timber company's have control of I will use the right-of-way or easement to get to said state land on my E-bike. I'm sorry if I ride by someone and you get mad but I'm tired of all this state land being land locked that is to far to get to by walking. If I get in trouble so be it. There is a RCW for e-bike use on state land.
So if there is a postage stamp of state land behind a timber company gate, you are ok will with taking your ebike behind the gate? Will you then hunt animals on the private timber company land that you used the ebike for access or only restrict yourself to hunting the state land since you used the ebike?
All of you guys raise really interesting points. This is actually a much bigger issue (not just regarding e-bikes), but a question about easements and rights-of-way. Not every logging road (behind a gate on private timber land) will have an easement. And not every road will have a public right-of-way. There are very clear legal definitions as to what those are.
The next question comes from the discussion above. "Can a private timber company, with a gate on their logging road, restrict the use of e-bikes on said logging road if that road has an easement or a known public right-of-way, when the destination of the e-bike rider is public land?"
Interesting question. I would love to know the answer.
Post by: huntnfmly on November 03, 2020, 12:40:54 PM
Are there actual access easements or assumed easements?If assumed easement @Akroyd you are still ok with doing that?
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Post by: Akroyd on November 03, 2020, 01:19:53 PM
Post by: hunthard on November 03, 2020, 03:08:16 PM
Curious if there are timber companies that allow e bikes behind their gates?
Blakely does.
Post by: JakeLand on November 03, 2020, 05:02:22 PM
yes there are several go online to each company and see the rules or a call helps too that’s what I’ve done
Curious if there are timber companies that allow e bikes behind their gates?
Blakely does.
Post by: furbearer365 on November 03, 2020, 06:44:20 PM
If there is state land (state of Washington is okay with E-bikes) beyond these gates that the timber company's have control of I will use the right-of-way or easement to get to said state land on my E-bike. I'm sorry if I ride by someone and you get mad but I'm tired of all this state land being land locked that is to far to get to by walking. If I get in trouble so be it. There is a RCW for e-bike use on state
I agree with you, on a small level. I don't like state land being blocked off to the people of this state. Timber companies aren't denying you access to state land, they are setting rules to THEIR land. Just because they dont give you complete access in the means that you wish, doesn't mean they are blocking you from state land. I live on the Cowlitz River, and by no means own the river, but using your reasoning, I would have to allow anybody to park their truck on my land and walk across my property to access the river, simply because its public owned. If a person can access the river legally from other means, I have no say so as to what they do. But it also doesn't mean I owe people access to it from my property. The same goes for Timber company's. If you have a way to access state land by following the rules of adjacent land owners, then they dont care what you do once on said State ground.
Post by: BA Mongor on November 04, 2020, 06:49:08 AM
As someone said, each "Owner" of that land has their own rules in place. And in this case, Hancock and Sierra Pacific don't allow e-bikes. I would assume that If I removed my battery from my e-bike it would be ok. Either way, you can't use e-bikes on their land. Period!
It doesn't matter if your trying to get to State Land or as someone said "My Land", they don't allow it. We should be grateful that they still allow us to freely access their land to hunt and fish or whatever.
Be grateful for that, as it could end at anytime they wish and there would be nothing we can do about it. Unless your like a couple people on this site and just don't care and will do whatever you want, anytime you want !!! Like I said previously, I wish there was a greater punishment for those that blatantly disregard the land Owners rules. :twocents:
Post by: Stein on November 04, 2020, 11:26:54 AM
Support organizations that buy access, RMEF does some.
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Post by: walt on November 04, 2020, 12:18:46 PM
If there is a legal easement allowing vehicular access, go for it. If not, it’s not legal. Landlocked public sucks, but that doesn’t justify trespassing.
Support organizations that buy access, RMEF does some.
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:yeah: Easements are also typically written as to the what not the how, providing for ingress/egress, utilities....not what method of travel is acceptable. The land owner still owns the land the easement passes over and they can (usually) dictate what method of travel is acceptable on their land.
Post by: bbarnes on November 05, 2020, 10:36:54 AM
Post by: BA Mongor on November 05, 2020, 04:40:54 PM
Get over what? Obeying private property rules and regulations?
You're on private land, and they "Sierra Pacific and Hancock" don't allow e-bikes on their property. Deal with it. I still don't understand how some don't or can't understand that. It's not hard to understand.
If you owned a couple hundred thousand acres, you might allow it, but you don't. Or at least I assume you don't, and if you do, can I use my e-bike on your land?
If you use their lands like I do, we are guests and should respect their rules. :twocents:
Post by: bbarnes on November 05, 2020, 08:04:53 PM
Post by: bbarnes on November 05, 2020, 08:06:13 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on November 05, 2020, 08:31:31 PM
If they allow bicycles then certain e bikes fall under that rule that's what I'm saying.:yeah:
Post by: High Climber on November 05, 2020, 08:38:17 PM
If they allow bicycles then certain e bikes fall under that rule that's what I'm saying.:yeah:
Guys that’s BS. They can allow access in whatever fashion they choose. What the state recognizes as a bicycle has no bearing on what a private landowner has to recognize.
Post by: MtnMuley on November 05, 2020, 08:55:40 PM
If they allow bicycles then certain e bikes fall under that rule that's what I'm saying.:yeah:
Guys that’s BS. They can allow access in whatever fashion they choose. What the state recognizes as a bicycle has no bearing on what a private landowner has to recognize.
:yeah:
Post by: JakeLand on November 05, 2020, 09:38:59 PM
Post by: SGTDuffman on November 05, 2020, 10:38:34 PM
This stuff isn’t that complicated. If you don’t own it or have explicit permission from the owner to be there doing what you’re doing, how you’re doing it, then you’re wrong. There’s no gray area to debate. And the more people who disregard simple rules, the more likely we all lose what little access we have.
I have zero tolerance for people who didregard the posted rules. I report all of them I come across, because I’m not willing to risk losing access for me, my kids, or my friends. We’re all supposed to be conservationists. If you guys like having places and animals to hunt you better weed out every bad actor you can, or you’ll lose access to both.
Post by: BA Mongor on November 05, 2020, 11:44:47 PM
Well said.
It would be great if everyone thought like this. And with that, elk opener is Saturday and I'll be up in that area I was previously and can't wait to see how many of the rule breakers I run into. They're all going to be in for a surprise!!
Even if they do try going in really early, they pretty much have to come in off of a Weyerhaeuser mainline using an access pass and they'll be in for a rude awakening.
Post by: Bullkllr on November 06, 2020, 05:29:33 AM
Why does this topic keep coming up? If it’s closed to motorized access, it’s closed to e-bikes, period. An e-bike has a motor. Bikes are allowed places e-bikes are not for this exact reason. The motor is the difference, and private land owners get to dictate the conditions of entry, if any, for their property. If you violate those conditions you’re guilty of criminal trespass. You likewise have no “right” to use private property as an easement to otherwise inaccessible public land. You must obtain easement rights from the property owner to have access.Well said. I don't get it either.
This stuff isn’t that complicated. If you don’t own it or have explicit permission from the owner to be there doing what you’re doing, how you’re doing it, then you’re wrong. There’s no gray area to debate. And the more people who disregard simple rules, the more likely we all lose what little access we have.
I have zero tolerance for people who didregard the posted rules. I report all of them I come across, because I’m not willing to risk losing access for me, my kids, or my friends. We’re all supposed to be conservationists. If you guys like having places and animals to hunt you better weed out every bad actor you can, or you’ll lose access to both.
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 06, 2020, 06:15:31 AM
Why does this topic keep coming up? If it’s closed to motorized access, it’s closed to e-bikes, period. An e-bike has a motor. Bikes are allowed places e-bikes are not for this exact reason. The motor is the difference, and private land owners get to dictate the conditions of entry, if any, for their property. If you violate those conditions you’re guilty of criminal trespass. You likewise have no “right” to use private property as an easement to otherwise inaccessible public land. You must obtain easement rights from the property owner to have access.
This stuff isn’t that complicated. If you don’t own it or have explicit permission from the owner to be there doing what you’re doing, how you’re doing it, then you’re wrong. There’s no gray area to debate. And the more people who disregard simple rules, the more likely we all lose what little access we have.
I have zero tolerance for people who didregard the posted rules. I report all of them I come across, because I’m not willing to risk losing access for me, my kids, or my friends. We’re all supposed to be conservationists. If you guys like having places and animals to hunt you better weed out every bad actor you can, or you’ll lose access to both.
:yeah: Its really not that confusing.
Post by: The Marquis on November 06, 2020, 08:12:19 AM
Post by: hunter399 on November 06, 2020, 08:20:09 AM
And not really wanting to post.
But will anyway the signage in some of these area is pretty cut and dry.
Is all in saying.
Post by: Aginor on November 06, 2020, 08:29:24 AM
Post by: chiwawadan on November 06, 2020, 08:51:08 AM
The signs into Sierra property say e-bikes are NOT allowed. It doesn't say what kind, when, etc etc. That settles that debate. Don't know about Hancock as I've never stepped foot on their property, but Sierra signage I've seen is clear.This is 100% correct.
Post by: nwmein199 on November 06, 2020, 08:53:37 AM
Post by: Will on November 06, 2020, 09:34:29 AM
Post by: bigbore40 on November 06, 2020, 07:10:30 PM