Post by: Ridgeratt on June 16, 2021, 07:58:55 AM
STEVENS COUNTY, Wash. — A breeding female wolf was illegally shot and killed in Stevens County at the end of May, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife has confirmed.
According to the monthly wolf report, the female wolf was found dead from a gunshot wound in the Wedge pack territory, specifically on private property in the Sheep Creek area.
Anyone with information about the poaching is asked to call WDFW at 360-902-2928 or by texting WDFWTIP to 847411.
Anyone who provides information that helps lead to an arrest may be eligible for a cash reward of up to $7,500 (CNW) or bonus points for special permit hunting opportunities.
This was the third wolf mortality documented by WDFW in 2021. A report released earlier this year indicated the state’s wolf population increased by an estimated 33 animals in 2020, with fewer lethal removals due to wolf-livestock conflict.
Post by: cem3434 on June 16, 2021, 08:00:09 AM
Post by: KFhunter on June 16, 2021, 08:25:24 AM
Post by: fishngamereaper on June 16, 2021, 08:31:25 AM
Post by: bearpaw on June 16, 2021, 08:34:37 AM
Post by: huntnnw on June 16, 2021, 08:37:12 AM
Post by: Ridgeratt on June 16, 2021, 08:38:28 AM
I don't know anything about this.
I have only been as far east as Elbow lake. Was going to do a little fishing, but had a purist flogging the water and his significant other in her kayak puttering around singing and chanting. :dunno:
I sort of like the solitude of the sounds of the woods around me. I didn't spend much time.
Post by: ne kid on June 16, 2021, 08:39:44 AM
Post by: KFhunter on June 16, 2021, 08:43:22 AM
I seen a wolf the other day staning in the middle of hwy 395 and my first thought was bear it was so black.
But it turned and buggered off before I could get a much closer inspection, maybe if I were in a hellcat I could have gotten close enough to inspect it.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on June 16, 2021, 08:44:02 AM
I don't know anything about this.
:yeah: Check my cell phone records. Haven't been in that area this year. Quarantined alone, so no witnesses. :dunno:
Post by: KFhunter on June 16, 2021, 09:23:50 AM
Problem is there's no cell reception in much of that area, so that's not going to absolve you from suspicion. ;)I don't know anything about this.
:yeah: Check my cell phone records. Haven't been in that area this year. Quarantined alone, so no witnesses. :dunno:
Post by: Ridgeratt on June 16, 2021, 09:27:36 AM
Problem is there's no cell reception in much of that area, so that's not going to absolve you from suspicion. ;)I don't know anything about this.
:yeah: Check my cell phone records. Haven't been in that area this year. Quarantined alone, so no witnesses. :dunno:
And if you are able to get service, chances are you will show roaming from North of the border.
Post by: KFhunter on June 16, 2021, 09:31:40 AM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on June 16, 2021, 09:52:55 AM
Anyone who provides information that helps lead to an arrest may be eligible for a cash reward of up to $7,500 (CNW) or bonus points for special permit hunting opportunities.
This was the third wolf mortality documented by WDFW in 2021. A report released earlier this year indicated the state’s wolf population increased by an estimated 33 animals in 2020, with fewer lethal removals due to wolf-livestock conflict.
Bonus points for wolf? Now there is some motivation.
Post by: Special T on June 16, 2021, 09:58:46 AM
Post by: baker5150 on June 16, 2021, 10:02:00 AM
Suicide
Must have had some dirt on the Clintons
Post by: Ridgeratt on June 16, 2021, 10:16:06 AM
The Canadians did it!
KF you might be onto something. When the WDFW first started tracking the population they refused to acknowledge any animal that crossed back and forth across the border the considered them a transit pack and didn't count towards their management goals.
I remember this last summer they eradicated the remaining members' of this pack.
But I also saw where a person on here posted during Spring bear a notification that the WDFW had live catch traps out and to call them if anyone came across a trapped animal and to keep your pets in your control while in the area.
Post by: trophyhunt on June 16, 2021, 10:19:28 AM
Post by: bearpaw on June 16, 2021, 10:43:51 AM
The Canadians did it!
KF you might be onto something. When the WDFW first started tracking the population they refused to acknowledge any animal that crossed back and forth across the border the considered them a transit pack and didn't count towards their management goals.
I remember this last summer they eradicated the remaining members' of this pack.
But I also saw where a person on here posted during Spring bear a notification that the WDFW had live catch traps out and to call them if anyone came across a trapped animal and to keep your pets in your control while in the area.
There is no one wedge pack, or any other pack for that matter, numerous wolves are scattered throughout our whole region!
Post by: NRA4LIFE on June 16, 2021, 10:47:14 AM
Post by: bearpaw on June 16, 2021, 11:01:14 AM
Touche to all the wolf lovers that frequented this forum! I was exactly right!
We have a lot of new members in the last 5 years, thanks for joining, you missed a lot of the past discussions about wolves, but if you were to dig deep you can find those discussions, those of us who warned what would happen were spot on!
Post by: HAGEMANIAC on June 16, 2021, 11:27:49 AM
Anyone who provides information that helps lead to an arrest may be eligible for a cash reward of up to $7,500 (CNW) or bonus points for special permit hunting opportunities.
This was the third wolf mortality documented by WDFW in 2021. A report released earlier this year indicated the state’s wolf population increased by an estimated 33 animals in 2020, with fewer lethal removals due to wolf-livestock conflict.
Bonus points for wolf? Now there is some motivation.
Points are so worthless. They are so oblivious, even to their own system
Post by: bearpaw on June 16, 2021, 11:32:27 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on June 16, 2021, 11:59:32 AM
Post by: Colville on June 16, 2021, 12:48:09 PM
Post by: birddogdad on June 16, 2021, 01:03:18 PM
Burning and looting a city, civil disobedience no arrests. Shoot a wolf, prison. These are the times we live in.
not so much the "times", rather the idiots electing other idiots into the pipeline....
Post by: Widgeondeke on June 16, 2021, 01:29:17 PM
Burning and looting a city, civil disobedience no arrests. Shoot a wolf, prison. These are the times we live in.
This right here is pathetic & true :bash:
Post by: greenhead_killer on June 16, 2021, 01:39:22 PM
Is it just me, but illegally shot wolves seem to be breeding females.how else will they stir up emotions from these brain dead sheeple if they dont put that?!?
we need to cull about 90% of what is here, following idahos program.
the population only grew by 33 last year, ha! do these morons even get away from their desk long enough to look outside, let alone put boots on the ground and 'attempt' to do an honest count?!?
glad to see they have money for wolf removal* rewards but cant fix a road in this state...carry on
Post by: Ridgeratt on June 16, 2021, 01:43:56 PM
Is it just me, but illegally shot wolves seem to be breeding females.
In the culture that we have now. Perhaps that's how the wolf identified it self. 🤔🤔🤔
Post by: KFhunter on June 16, 2021, 04:03:49 PM
Just to clarify something else, today we are exactly where I said we would be with wolves 10 years ago! Today wolves have seriously depleted our moose herds, wolves ate the caribou into extinction, some ranchers have been run out of business, all our ungulates are struggling in the wolf infested areas, and we are still not hunting them in WA and probably never will.and we're all better hunters for it /sarc
Touche to all the wolf lovers that frequented this forum! I was exactly right!
We have a lot of new members in the last 5 years, thanks for joining, you missed a lot of the past discussions about wolves, but if you were to dig deep you can find those discussions, those of us who warned what would happen were spot on!
Post by: Watimberghost on June 16, 2021, 05:21:00 PM
Suicide
Must have had some dirt on the Clintons
:chuckle:
Post by: jason stevens on June 16, 2021, 05:23:09 PM
Post by: grundy53 on June 16, 2021, 05:48:23 PM
Burning and looting a city, civil disobedience no arrests. Shoot a wolf, prison. These are the times we live in.Well said!
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: hunthard on June 16, 2021, 06:34:59 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on June 16, 2021, 07:23:49 PM
Post by: ne kid on June 16, 2021, 07:30:55 PM
Post by: Taco280AI on June 16, 2021, 07:51:42 PM
Post by: Go Blue on June 16, 2021, 07:59:24 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on June 16, 2021, 08:13:51 PM
Suicide
Must have had some dirt on the Clintons
Most likely felt compelled based on the pressure that goes along with being labeled a breeding female... it's possible that she self identified as an Alfa male and couldn't handle the pressure from the pack pushing her back to strictly breeder status...
Post by: Fl0und3rz on June 17, 2021, 08:21:39 AM
Post by: Ridgeratt on June 18, 2021, 06:22:49 AM
https://www.kxly.com/conservation-groups-offer-15k-reward-for-info-on-wolf-death/
SPOKANE, Wash. (AP) — A coalition of conservation groups is offering a $15,000 reward for information on the poaching of the breeding female of the Wedge wolf pack in northeastern Washington state.
The wolf was found dead of a gunshot wound May 26 in the Sheep Creek area of Stevens County.
Conservation groups say the slain wolf had given birth to pups earlier this year. Because her death occurred when the pups would not yet have been fully weaned, her litter has likely starved to death. Her death also marks the demise of the Wedge pack, which consisted of just two wolves.
While gray wolves were recently stripped of their federal Endangered Species Act protections, they remain protected under state law in Washington. Amaroq Weiss of the Center for Biological Diversity says poachers have killed far too many of Washington’s wolves without consequence.
There were 132 wolves living in Washington at the end of 2020. There are 24 packs and 13 confirmed breeding pairs on lands managed by the state.
Post by: Miles on June 18, 2021, 06:26:47 AM
Post by: hunter399 on June 18, 2021, 06:30:56 AM
Lost cause, isn't nobody in this county giving any info.
I would wish them Goodluck with there cause ,but they won't get any.
Post by: hunter399 on June 18, 2021, 06:33:30 AM
Someone got their money’s worth for that one bullet. Even with today’s ammo prices. LolSo funny ,because it's so true. :chuckle:
Post by: Southpole on June 18, 2021, 08:20:05 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 18, 2021, 09:02:05 AM
Suicide
Must have had some dirt on the Clintons
Damn, you beat me to it!
Post by: Goshawk on June 18, 2021, 10:22:28 PM
Is it just me, but illegally shot wolves seem to be breeding females.
It's like the drug crazed gang banger who gets shot by a cop. "He had just turned his life around and was a great father to his 23 *censored* children."
Post by: HighlandLofts on June 20, 2021, 09:58:50 AM
Post by: Ridgeratt on June 20, 2021, 10:05:10 AM
Conservation groups say the slain wolf had given birth to pups earlier this year. Because her death occurred when the pups would not yet have been fully weaned, her litter has likely starved to death. Her death also marks the demise of the Wedge pack, which consisted of just two wolves.
If they really have no clue how many are in the state, just how can they make this statement. There are more then those 2 in the wedge.
The WDFW moves the goal post on the wedge more than Fauci does on his position on masks.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on June 20, 2021, 10:11:35 AM
Post by: idaho guy on June 20, 2021, 10:19:12 AM
Just to clarify something else, today we are exactly where I said we would be with wolves 10 years ago! Today wolves have seriously depleted our moose herds, wolves ate the caribou into extinction, some ranchers have been run out of business, all our ungulates are struggling in the wolf infested areas, and we are still not hunting them in WA and probably never will.
Touche to all the wolf lovers that frequented this forum! I was exactly right!
We have a lot of new members in the last 5 years, thanks for joining, you missed a lot of the past discussions about wolves, but if you were to dig deep you can find those discussions, those of us who warned what would happen were spot on!
:yeah: Funny how the pro wolf crowd never come back to comment on wolf threads anymore! I would l
Post by: jstone on June 20, 2021, 12:21:31 PM
Post by: xX Let ER Rip Xx on June 20, 2021, 08:26:41 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on June 25, 2021, 03:06:15 PM
Post by: jason stevens on June 25, 2021, 05:54:42 PM
Post by: ducks4days on June 25, 2021, 05:55:41 PM
Post by: elkrack on June 27, 2021, 10:28:58 PM
The Canadians did it!
:chuckle:
Post by: hunter399 on June 28, 2021, 01:35:03 AM
Damm border jumping wolves.The Canadians did it!
:chuckle:
Post by: bobdog86 on July 04, 2021, 07:59:20 PM
Post by: COOPDUCK on July 04, 2021, 08:28:03 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 04, 2021, 08:57:16 PM
Elk calving areas were utterly empty, no tracks, no scat no deer just knee high lush clover
All day long bro and I were like "if this were Idaho, there'd be elk everywhere here" but not a dam thing, checking mud puddles for tracks..nothing, check springs for wallows, nothing, no tracks through the lush clover and grasses.
Used to be elk all through here, there's a few left down on private near people's homes, but up hete nadadam.
Post by: Ridgeratt on July 04, 2021, 09:06:23 PM
I put a bunch of miles last few days in that area and east and omg its a wasteland devoid of animals until you get down near people, its just sickening.
Elk calving areas were utterly empty, no tracks, no scat no deer just knee high lush clover
All day long bro and I were like "if this were Idaho, there'd be elk everywhere here" but not a dam thing, checking mud puddles for tracks..nothing, check springs for wallows, nothing, no tracks through the lush clover and grasses.
Used to be elk all through here, there's a few left down on private near people's homes, but up hete nadadam.
When you live there and see how barren it is makes you want to throw a bunch of money into the wdfw tag system to hunt those areas to support their agenda.
Post by: KFhunter on July 04, 2021, 09:44:48 PM
Post by: timberfaller on July 04, 2021, 09:51:07 PM
Post by: hunter399 on July 05, 2021, 06:00:19 AM
I put a bunch of miles last few days in that area and east and omg its a wasteland devoid of animals until you get down near people, its just sickening.I have areas to the south of ya that has the same exact @$!#
Elk calving areas were utterly empty, no tracks, no scat no deer just knee high lush clover
All day long bro and I were like "if this were Idaho, there'd be elk everywhere here" but not a dam thing, checking mud puddles for tracks..nothing, check springs for wallows, nothing, no tracks through the lush clover and grasses.
Used to be elk all through here, there's a few left down on private near people's homes, but up hete nadadam.
Going on.
It's really sad and BS at the same time!.
Post by: Ridgeratt on July 05, 2021, 06:29:33 AM
https://www.kxly.com/one-wolf-was-poached-in-wa-heres-why-its-a-big-deal/
By Hannah Weinberger / Crosscut.com
July 2, 2021
When wolf biologist Trent Roussin first saw the gray wolf on May 26 in the Sheep Creek area of Washington’s Stevens County, it wasn’t immediately apparent that she had been shot. The wolf was lying on the ground miles behind a locked gate; it was quiet, Roussin says, and not particularly messy or bloody. When he and his colleagues realized she had been poached, he wasn’t surprised. But he was disappointed.
“It’s really a bummer, is the first thing you think,” says Roussin, who works at the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. State-endangered gray wolves, once extirpated from the area, started recovering in Washington in 2008. Apex predators like wolves help keep forest populations of deer and small predators like coyotes in check. But with increasing overlaps between ranching and wolf territory, many people in Eastern Washington see the wolves as headaches at best and threats to life and business at worst.
“We can definitely live with wolves, but we think right now we have an oversaturation of them,” says Scott Nielsen, president of the Stevens County Cattlemen’s Association. “They’re not dispersing as fast as we would like.”
At least seven wolf packs attacked livestock in 2020. Washington saw at least 12 wolf poachings between 2010 and 2018, with the latest known incident in May 2019 in Stevens County. As of April, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife estimates that there are at least 178 wolves spread across 29 packs in the state, the majority of which are in Eastern Washington; that’s up from an estimated 145 wolves across 26 packs in 2019.
Wolf poachers go mostly undiscovered — but that hasn’t stopped nonprofit organizations from putting up significant cash rewards for information about these incidents. While rewards generally don’t lead to convictions, Defenders of Wildlife’s Gwen Dobbs says reward offers in cases of wildlife poaching can help raise public awareness, “hopefully serving as a deterrent against potential future incidents, even if a reward does not directly lead to a conviction.”
Department of Fish and Wildlife wolf coordinator Julia Smith says the public is key to helping understand when and why these killings happen. “Even if we don’t ever find the person who did it, at least we were able to document and understand what happened here in this particular area,” she says.
The increasing size of the award — $15,000 for information related to the gray wolf Roussin found — doesn’t necessarily indicate anything about what the loss of one wolf means to the pack, to wolf conservation or to ecosystems. The true value of one wolf, those closest to the issue say, depends upon the context in which the loss happens and the scope in which you consider it.
Pack impacts
On a pack level, losing one wolf can seriously threaten the pack’s future. The wolf poached in May wasn’t just any wolf. She was a breeding female in the Wedge Pack, a small pack still establishing itself. After a series of livestock predations in 2012, Washington state killed most, if not all, of the pack, says Paula Sweeden, policy director of Conservation Northwest. New wolves colonized the area within a year or two, and things were quiet until last year, when members of the pack were lethally removed after again killing cattle. According to the 2020 annual population survey, the pack had a minimum count of two wolves.
Given the time of year, it’s likely that the wolf had had pups within the past few months, and it’s also likely they won’t survive. “Wolf pups have a high level of mortality anyway,” Smith says. The pups have roughly 50% chance of surviving their first year, even with their mothers present. The pack won’t be able to produce new pups until next spring at the earliest.
When the Smackout Pack lost a female breeder in 2015, her partner stepped in to care for the pups, Sweeden says. When the state culled a breeding female in the Huckleberry Pack during a lethal removal in August 2014, it was late enough in the season that pups were likely old enough to make it on their own.
For small packs, losing breeding females can mean the pack not only loses pups, but dissolves entirely.
In a recent research paper exploring breeder loss to packs in Denali National Park, co-written by University of Washington researchers, breeder loss preceded pack dissolution in 77% of cases.
“Breeding females tend to be the glue of the pack,” Roussin says. “On a local scale, if we lose just one breeding female in a certain recovery region, that can be a huge deal.” He points to the south Cascades, where there currently aren’t any breeding pairs.
Members of dissolved packs may stay in the area and wait for another breeding female to join them, or seek out existing members of the pack to start breeding the next season. They may also disperse in search of other packs, or to find new territory and start their own.
Starting new packs can be problematic in Eastern Washington, which is already saturated with wolves. Any direction they venture, the wolves are liable to run into other packs — and wolves are territorial so they could also get killed by other wolves, Roussin said.
Population impacts
Zooming out to the population level, though, the impacts of losing one wolf aren’t as substantial to recovery. “The research we’ve done shows wolf populations are pretty resilient to harvests and not as fragile as a lot of the conservation community believes them to be,” says Dr. Laura Prugh, a professor of wildlife ecology at the University of Washington.
Prugh, who helped lead the research in Denali National Park in Alaska, has found that where wolves are plentiful, there’s no population-level impact when you remove a wolf.
Denali hasn’t experienced extirpation, Prugh says, “so it’s possible that the removal of [the poached breeding female] wolf could slow down the recovery a bit.”
However, when the Department of Fish and Wildlife removed wolves from the Wedge Pack last summer, within about two months Roussin started hearing reports of wolves recolonizing the area. “It just goes to show that if a pack blinks out for any reason at the stage of recovery that we’re in, at least in the northeast part of the state, those territories usually fill back in fairly quickly,” he says.
While the wolf population is resilient to losing one wolf, packs disbanded in their wake can affect the way statewide recovery unfolds in space and time.
The state is already behind on its recovery goal of having packs and breeding pairs established in all three recovery zones, initially projected to be met in 2021. Researchers say dispersing wolves may not explore new territories and where there are fewer pups, there are fewer opportunities to establish new packs.
“Folks who want to see wolves removed from the state endangered species list should be vehemently opposing poaching, which is just going to prolong reaching their statewide recovery objectives,” says Zoe Hanley, Defenders of Wildlife’s Northwest representative, who works with communities on the ground to further human-wildlife coexistence and conservation goals.
Nielsen of the Stevens County Cattlemen’s Association agrees. The ranching community, he says, was content to leave alone the wolf poached in May. As far as the community knows, the wolf wasn’t predating on livestock. He acknowledged that breeding females are essential to increasing the population, and young wolves leave home to find new territory. “One of our goals is to get them to numbers [and distribution] where they can be delisted,” he says.
UW’s Prugh says researchers are still exploring how many wolves are needed to maintain the ecosystem benefits they bring to landscapes.
“Having wolves present is one thing, but having them perform their ecological function is another, and [how many wolves you need] is a real open question right now,” she says.
Because wolves target primarily the most vulnerable animals as prey, Defender of Wildlife’s Hanley says, they can help those prey populations remain healthier and more vigorous. Wolf predation also regulates prey distribution and group size, which can impact the diversity of that entire ecosystem over time. “It’s just so important to maintain wolves and other apex predators, so that we can ensure ecosystem health during this crazy time of climate change,” Hanley says.
Human impacts
Washingtonians may feel the loss of one wolf more deeply than the wolf population itself, conservationists say.
“The wolves will recover. But it’s just unfortunate from a human perspective that folks are out there doing this,” Roussin says. Wolves die all the time: The way that this wolf died is what’s making it an issue for people.
Wolf advocates were already primed to take the May poaching hard. The state-led use of lethal removal of wolves in the Wedge Pack last summer is a sticking point for those who think any form of killing is wrong, and the pack had only just started reestablishing at the time of this poaching. A federal-level decision to delist gray wolves from the federal endangered species list in January exacerbated hard feelings.
“There’s a significant segment of the population, I think, that cares about wolves as individual animals. And it’s so heartbreaking to think about the fact that someone so dislikes those animals that they would go out of their way to kill one, especially when the population is still recovering and especially when it’s a protected species,” Conservation Northwest’s Sweeden says. “And anytime that vulnerable young animals die, that’s also very upsetting.”
Prugh says she’s amazed by the impact one poaching can have on the human political ecosystem. “They just evoke such a strong emotional response, I think, that’s really disproportionate to their actual threat or their actual benefit,” Prugh says. “I feel like in the human realm they’ve almost become just another thing to fight over, and I’ve definitely heard people say things like, ‘Well, wolves are Democrats.’ They’ve become very symbolic of the larger polarization in our society.”
Omens of serious recovery setbacks
Experts within both conservation groups and the Department of Fish and Wildlife say human-wolf relations have been trending positively since recovery started, despite a few incidences of poaching and discontent within ranching communities. Breeding pairs have increased each year since Washington started counting them. “There’s a lot of folks who might want to paint [conservation] like it’s doom and gloom, but to me from a purely biological perspective we see our wolf population trending in the direction that we want it to go… and they’re largely coming back on their own,” says Smith, the Department of Fish and Wildlife wolf coordinator.
“Most of the wolves are good wolves, and they’re not out there depredating. And [the poached wolf] wasn’t one of the bad ones,” Nielsen of the rancher association says, noting that the Wedge Pack had been pretty well-behaved up until last year. “So as long as they’re behaving themselves, for ranchers, I don’t think there’s a negative impact.”
To be concerned for recovery at the population level, there would have to be pretty severe mortality, about 30% — or 50 to 60 wolves — based on recovery developments seen elsewhere, Roussin says. Smith says that last year there was a mortality rate of 9%; the year before, it was 14%. Lethal removal by the state has averaged 3% of the population each year, with the most removal occurring in 2012 at 14% of the minimum population count. Poaching hasn’t gotten to a point where it would affect population-level recovery.
“After living alongside wolves for 10 years now, I think a lot of the myths are falling away,” Roussin says of living with wolves. Livestock producers who used to talk about killing wolves, he says, realize that taking one won’t do much to the population as a whole. “Another wolf is going to be right back in there, within months or shorter,… They realize they’re not going to be able to kill all the wolves to solve the problems they think they have.”
Nielsen agrees that while tensions remain, coexisting with wolves — and interacting with the state Department of FIsh and Wildlife — has been generally positive for ranchers since recovery started. But, while there’s a lower percentage of wolves creating problems, there are more wolves out there, and the problems seem to continue, he says, despite most ranchers investing in nonlethal deterrence tools. Nielsen doesn’t condone poaching, but says poaching likely happens when people feel frustrated about how wolves are being managed.
“I know social tolerance cuts two ways, but it’s not acceptable to have them eating our livestock. And we think part of why they don’t move on is because they have an abundant food supply here. And unfortunately part of that food supply is our livestock,” Nielsen says.
Post by: hunter399 on July 05, 2021, 07:12:06 AM
One wolf was poached in WA. Here’s why it’s a big deal
https://www.kxly.com/one-wolf-was-poached-in-wa-heres-why-its-a-big-deal/
By Hannah Weinberger / Crosscut.com
July 2, 2021
When wolf biologist Trent Roussin first saw the gray wolf on May 26 in the Sheep Creek area of Washington’s Stevens County, it wasn’t immediately apparent that she had been shot. The wolf was lying on the ground miles behind a locked gate; it was quiet, Roussin says, and not particularly messy or bloody. When he and his colleagues realized she had been poached, he wasn’t surprised. But he was disappointed.
“It’s really a bummer, is the first thing you think,” says Roussin, who works at the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. State-endangered gray wolves, once extirpated from the area, started recovering in Washington in 2008. Apex predators like wolves help keep forest populations of deer and small predators like coyotes in check. But with increasing overlaps between ranching and wolf territory, many people in Eastern Washington see the wolves as headaches at best and threats to life and business at worst.
“We can definitely live with wolves, but we think right now we have an oversaturation of them,” says Scott Nielsen, president of the Stevens County Cattlemen’s Association. “They’re not dispersing as fast as we would like.”
At least seven wolf packs attacked livestock in 2020. Washington saw at least 12 wolf poachings between 2010 and 2018, with the latest known incident in May 2019 in Stevens County. As of April, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife estimates that there are at least 178 wolves spread across 29 packs in the state, the majority of which are in Eastern Washington; that’s up from an estimated 145 wolves across 26 packs in 2019.
Wolf poachers go mostly undiscovered — but that hasn’t stopped nonprofit organizations from putting up significant cash rewards for information about these incidents. While rewards generally don’t lead to convictions, Defenders of Wildlife’s Gwen Dobbs says reward offers in cases of wildlife poaching can help raise public awareness, “hopefully serving as a deterrent against potential future incidents, even if a reward does not directly lead to a conviction.”
Department of Fish and Wildlife wolf coordinator Julia Smith says the public is key to helping understand when and why these killings happen. “Even if we don’t ever find the person who did it, at least we were able to document and understand what happened here in this particular area,” she says.
The increasing size of the award — $15,000 for information related to the gray wolf Roussin found — doesn’t necessarily indicate anything about what the loss of one wolf means to the pack, to wolf conservation or to ecosystems. The true value of one wolf, those closest to the issue say, depends upon the context in which the loss happens and the scope in which you consider it.
Pack impacts
On a pack level, losing one wolf can seriously threaten the pack’s future. The wolf poached in May wasn’t just any wolf. She was a breeding female in the Wedge Pack, a small pack still establishing itself. After a series of livestock predations in 2012, Washington state killed most, if not all, of the pack, says Paula Sweeden, policy director of Conservation Northwest. New wolves colonized the area within a year or two, and things were quiet until last year, when members of the pack were lethally removed after again killing cattle. According to the 2020 annual population survey, the pack had a minimum count of two wolves.
Given the time of year, it’s likely that the wolf had had pups within the past few months, and it’s also likely they won’t survive. “Wolf pups have a high level of mortality anyway,” Smith says. The pups have roughly 50% chance of surviving their first year, even with their mothers present. The pack won’t be able to produce new pups until next spring at the earliest.
When the Smackout Pack lost a female breeder in 2015, her partner stepped in to care for the pups, Sweeden says. When the state culled a breeding female in the Huckleberry Pack during a lethal removal in August 2014, it was late enough in the season that pups were likely old enough to make it on their own.
For small packs, losing breeding females can mean the pack not only loses pups, but dissolves entirely.
In a recent research paper exploring breeder loss to packs in Denali National Park, co-written by University of Washington researchers, breeder loss preceded pack dissolution in 77% of cases.
“Breeding females tend to be the glue of the pack,” Roussin says. “On a local scale, if we lose just one breeding female in a certain recovery region, that can be a huge deal.” He points to the south Cascades, where there currently aren’t any breeding pairs.
Members of dissolved packs may stay in the area and wait for another breeding female to join them, or seek out existing members of the pack to start breeding the next season. They may also disperse in search of other packs, or to find new territory and start their own.
Starting new packs can be problematic in Eastern Washington, which is already saturated with wolves. Any direction they venture, the wolves are liable to run into other packs — and wolves are territorial so they could also get killed by other wolves, Roussin said.
Population impacts
Zooming out to the population level, though, the impacts of losing one wolf aren’t as substantial to recovery. “The research we’ve done shows wolf populations are pretty resilient to harvests and not as fragile as a lot of the conservation community believes them to be,” says Dr. Laura Prugh, a professor of wildlife ecology at the University of Washington.
Prugh, who helped lead the research in Denali National Park in Alaska, has found that where wolves are plentiful, there’s no population-level impact when you remove a wolf.
Denali hasn’t experienced extirpation, Prugh says, “so it’s possible that the removal of [the poached breeding female] wolf could slow down the recovery a bit.”
However, when the Department of Fish and Wildlife removed wolves from the Wedge Pack last summer, within about two months Roussin started hearing reports of wolves recolonizing the area. “It just goes to show that if a pack blinks out for any reason at the stage of recovery that we’re in, at least in the northeast part of the state, those territories usually fill back in fairly quickly,” he says.
While the wolf population is resilient to losing one wolf, packs disbanded in their wake can affect the way statewide recovery unfolds in space and time.
The state is already behind on its recovery goal of having packs and breeding pairs established in all three recovery zones, initially projected to be met in 2021. Researchers say dispersing wolves may not explore new territories and where there are fewer pups, there are fewer opportunities to establish new packs.
“Folks who want to see wolves removed from the state endangered species list should be vehemently opposing poaching, which is just going to prolong reaching their statewide recovery objectives,” says Zoe Hanley, Defenders of Wildlife’s Northwest representative, who works with communities on the ground to further human-wildlife coexistence and conservation goals.
Nielsen of the Stevens County Cattlemen’s Association agrees. The ranching community, he says, was content to leave alone the wolf poached in May. As far as the community knows, the wolf wasn’t predating on livestock. He acknowledged that breeding females are essential to increasing the population, and young wolves leave home to find new territory. “One of our goals is to get them to numbers [and distribution] where they can be delisted,” he says.
UW’s Prugh says researchers are still exploring how many wolves are needed to maintain the ecosystem benefits they bring to landscapes.
“Having wolves present is one thing, but having them perform their ecological function is another, and [how many wolves you need] is a real open question right now,” she says.
Because wolves target primarily the most vulnerable animals as prey, Defender of Wildlife’s Hanley says, they can help those prey populations remain healthier and more vigorous. Wolf predation also regulates prey distribution and group size, which can impact the diversity of that entire ecosystem over time. “It’s just so important to maintain wolves and other apex predators, so that we can ensure ecosystem health during this crazy time of climate change,” Hanley says.
Human impacts
Washingtonians may feel the loss of one wolf more deeply than the wolf population itself, conservationists say.
“The wolves will recover. But it’s just unfortunate from a human perspective that folks are out there doing this,” Roussin says. Wolves die all the time: The way that this wolf died is what’s making it an issue for people.
Wolf advocates were already primed to take the May poaching hard. The state-led use of lethal removal of wolves in the Wedge Pack last summer is a sticking point for those who think any form of killing is wrong, and the pack had only just started reestablishing at the time of this poaching. A federal-level decision to delist gray wolves from the federal endangered species list in January exacerbated hard feelings.
“There’s a significant segment of the population, I think, that cares about wolves as individual animals. And it’s so heartbreaking to think about the fact that someone so dislikes those animals that they would go out of their way to kill one, especially when the population is still recovering and especially when it’s a protected species,” Conservation Northwest’s Sweeden says. “And anytime that vulnerable young animals die, that’s also very upsetting.”
Prugh says she’s amazed by the impact one poaching can have on the human political ecosystem. “They just evoke such a strong emotional response, I think, that’s really disproportionate to their actual threat or their actual benefit,” Prugh says. “I feel like in the human realm they’ve almost become just another thing to fight over, and I’ve definitely heard people say things like, ‘Well, wolves are Democrats.’ They’ve become very symbolic of the larger polarization in our society.”
Omens of serious recovery setbacks
Experts within both conservation groups and the Department of Fish and Wildlife say human-wolf relations have been trending positively since recovery started, despite a few incidences of poaching and discontent within ranching communities. Breeding pairs have increased each year since Washington started counting them. “There’s a lot of folks who might want to paint [conservation] like it’s doom and gloom, but to me from a purely biological perspective we see our wolf population trending in the direction that we want it to go… and they’re largely coming back on their own,” says Smith, the Department of Fish and Wildlife wolf coordinator.
“Most of the wolves are good wolves, and they’re not out there depredating. And [the poached wolf] wasn’t one of the bad ones,” Nielsen of the rancher association says, noting that the Wedge Pack had been pretty well-behaved up until last year. “So as long as they’re behaving themselves, for ranchers, I don’t think there’s a negative impact.”
To be concerned for recovery at the population level, there would have to be pretty severe mortality, about 30% — or 50 to 60 wolves — based on recovery developments seen elsewhere, Roussin says. Smith says that last year there was a mortality rate of 9%; the year before, it was 14%. Lethal removal by the state has averaged 3% of the population each year, with the most removal occurring in 2012 at 14% of the minimum population count. Poaching hasn’t gotten to a point where it would affect population-level recovery.
“After living alongside wolves for 10 years now, I think a lot of the myths are falling away,” Roussin says of living with wolves. Livestock producers who used to talk about killing wolves, he says, realize that taking one won’t do much to the population as a whole. “Another wolf is going to be right back in there, within months or shorter,… They realize they’re not going to be able to kill all the wolves to solve the problems they think they have.”
Nielsen agrees that while tensions remain, coexisting with wolves — and interacting with the state Department of FIsh and Wildlife — has been generally positive for ranchers since recovery started. But, while there’s a lower percentage of wolves creating problems, there are more wolves out there, and the problems seem to continue, he says, despite most ranchers investing in nonlethal deterrence tools. Nielsen doesn’t condone poaching, but says poaching likely happens when people feel frustrated about how wolves are being managed.
“I know social tolerance cuts two ways, but it’s not acceptable to have them eating our livestock. And we think part of why they don’t move on is because they have an abundant food supply here. And unfortunately part of that food supply is our livestock,” Nielsen says.
This is the part of the artical that is the most concerned......
UW’s Prugh says researchers are still exploring how many wolves are needed to maintain the ecosystem benefits they bring to landscapes.
“Having wolves present is one thing, but having them perform their ecological function is another, and [how many wolves you need] is a real open question right now,” she says.
This is a huge difference between Idaho and Washington.
Idaho says they only need 150 wolves for the whole state,and will put all wolves over that number on the choping block.
Yet here is Washington ,We have 150 wolves in one county,
But we just can't figure out how many wolves we should have. Just stupid.
Post by: MeepDog on July 07, 2021, 02:04:54 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 07, 2021, 02:09:35 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on July 07, 2021, 02:13:54 PM
Post by: ducks4days on July 07, 2021, 02:43:27 PM
Does Washington state have a population objective where they no longer will consider them endangered?
You know how sometimes you look up at a blue sky, and you see one of those weird squiggly dots just off center of your focus point? And when you go to look at it, it moves just slightly out of the way of your focus. So you try it again and it moves again.
The population objective in this state is an imaginary number. It only exists as the next goal to get to before it increases again, the "no longer will consider them endangered" part of that sentence doesn't exist.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 07, 2021, 03:53:05 PM
Does Washington state have a population objective where they no longer will consider them endangered?
Three recovery regions were delineated for the state: (1) Eastern Washington, (2) Northern Cascades, and (3) Southern Cascades and Northwest Coast. Target numbers and distribution for downlisting and delisting within the three recovery regions are:
To reclassify from state endangered to state threatened status: 6 successful breeding pairs present for 3 consecutive years, with 2 successful breeding pairs in each of the three recovery regions.
To reclassify from state threatened to state sensitive status: 12 successful breeding pairs present for 3 consecutive years, with 4 successful breeding pairs in each of the three recovery regions.
To delist from state sensitive status: 15 successful breeding pairs present for 3 consecutive years, with 4 successful breeding pairs in each of the three recovery regions and 3 successful breeding pairs anywhere in the state.
In addition to the delisting objective of 15 successful breeding pairs distributed in the three geographic regions for 3 consecutive years, an alternative delisting objective is also established whereby the gray wolf will be considered for delisting when 18 successful breeding pairs are present, with 4 successful breeding pairs in the Eastern Washington region, 4 successful breeding pairs in the Northern Cascades region, 4 successful breeding pairs distributed in the Southern Cascades and Northwest Coast region, and 6 anywhere in the state.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00001
The wolves will be unable to meet this distribution and population goals because the plan's authors either didn't understand how wolves populate a given area (our state, specifically), or (more likely) they completely understood and purposely made the goals unattainable. Having participated in the process way back, as many on this forum had, and following it through to today, I suspect the latter. The USFWS lied about environmental and economic impacts and diseases to push introduction into the GYA. The WDFW, either willfully ignorant or co-conspirators, followed the USFWS guidance without question.
In direct contrast to the cuck-like coalescence of the DFW and our Governor to the feds, WY all but ignored the USFWS demands and manages wolves as needed for their wildlife and economy. ID and MT did set statewide population goals (not distribution guidelines and not what the USFWS wanted), but started managing as soon as those were met. I believe that the ID Governor at one point declared a state of emergency to take out wolves that were decimating ungulate populations, especially in the panhandle. It may not have been an emergency declaration, but he took definite measures to take out wolves. Our Governor enjoys far too much the financial attention he receives from animal rights groups and panders openly to them.
Post by: Dan-o on July 07, 2021, 05:32:52 PM
Does Washington state have a population objective where they no longer will consider them endangered?
Three recovery regions were delineated for the state: (1) Eastern Washington, (2) Northern Cascades, and (3) Southern Cascades and Northwest Coast. Target numbers and distribution for downlisting and delisting within the three recovery regions are:
To reclassify from state endangered to state threatened status: 6 successful breeding pairs present for 3 consecutive years, with 2 successful breeding pairs in each of the three recovery regions.
To reclassify from state threatened to state sensitive status: 12 successful breeding pairs present for 3 consecutive years, with 4 successful breeding pairs in each of the three recovery regions.
To delist from state sensitive status: 15 successful breeding pairs present for 3 consecutive years, with 4 successful breeding pairs in each of the three recovery regions and 3 successful breeding pairs anywhere in the state.
In addition to the delisting objective of 15 successful breeding pairs distributed in the three geographic regions for 3 consecutive years, an alternative delisting objective is also established whereby the gray wolf will be considered for delisting when 18 successful breeding pairs are present, with 4 successful breeding pairs in the Eastern Washington region, 4 successful breeding pairs in the Northern Cascades region, 4 successful breeding pairs distributed in the Southern Cascades and Northwest Coast region, and 6 anywhere in the state.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00001
The wolves will be unable to meet this distribution and population goals because the plan's authors either didn't understand how wolves populate a given area (our state, specifically), or (more likely) they completely understood and purposely made the goals unattainable. Having participated in the process way back, as many on this forum had, and following it through to today, I suspect the latter. The USFWS lied about environmental and economic impacts and diseases to push introduction into the GYA. The WDFW, either willfully ignorant or co-conspirators, followed the USFWS guidance without question.
In direct contrast to the cuck-like coalescence of the DFW and our Governor to the feds, WY all but ignored the USFWS demands and manages wolves as needed for their wildlife and economy. ID and MT did set statewide population goals (not distribution guidelines and not what the USFWS wanted), but started managing as soon as those were met. I believe that the ID Governor at one point declared a state of emergency to take out wolves that were decimating ungulate populations, especially in the panhandle. It may not have been an emergency declaration, but he took definite measures to take out wolves. Our Governor enjoys far too much the financial attention he receives from animal rights groups and panders openly to them.
Generally speaking, I am very much not a conspiracy theorist.
However, in this case I think you hit the nail n the head, PMan.
I especially think this to be true:
The wolves will be unable to meet this distribution and population goals because the plan's authors either didn't understand how wolves populate a given area (our state, specifically), or (more likely) they completely understood and purposely made the goals unattainable. Having participated in the process way back, as many on this forum had, and following it through to today, I suspect the latter.
I just can't find a way to give them the benefit of the doubt that they made this plan in good faith.
The western recovery region just seems like it had to be put into the plan intentionally in order to eternally protect wolves in Western Washington.
I'd love to be wrong on this one.
Post by: jstone on July 07, 2021, 05:46:34 PM
Post by: Loup Loup on July 07, 2021, 06:41:38 PM
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Post by: jstone on July 07, 2021, 06:46:00 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 08, 2021, 09:32:57 AM
Dan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Post by: ducks4days on July 08, 2021, 10:03:27 AM
Dan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Very few people actually wish ill on other people. Everybody believes that their own motives are good. I would bet money that these people are not delighted that rural people are suffering from the effects of unmanaged wolves on the landscape. Most dont know, dont believe it, or dont care, but it doesnt help anybody to make up a boogeyman standing on an ivory tower and wringing their hands over your suffering.
Post by: ribka on July 08, 2021, 10:15:30 AM
There has been a huge culture war going on now in the US and it has spilled over into fishing and hunting
Dan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Very few people actually wish ill on other people. Everybody believes that their own motives are good. I would bet money that these people are not delighted that rural people are suffering from the effects of unmanaged wolves on the landscape. Most dont know, dont believe it, or dont care, but it doesnt help anybody to make up a boogeyman standing on an ivory tower and wringing their hands over your suffering.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 08, 2021, 10:34:39 AM
Dan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Very few people actually wish ill on other people. Everybody believes that their own motives are good. I would bet money that these people are not delighted that rural people are suffering from the effects of unmanaged wolves on the landscape. Most dont know, dont believe it, or dont care, but it doesnt help anybody to make up a boogeyman standing on an ivory tower and wringing their hands over your suffering.
All due respects, but that's incredibly naïve. Quite a few people from King Co. have not only called for an end to cattle ranching to "save the wolves", but have also called for the deaths of cattle ranchers, Like McErvin, because of wolf culling to save their livestock. King and Thurston counties are a hotbed of extremist views. We're not just talking about a few people. We're talking about enough people to elect idiots like Inslee and Ferguson.
Post by: idaho guy on July 08, 2021, 02:00:31 PM
Well, thats not even close to being true. Go on social media on wolf hunting groups, read the comments after articles on wolve management in Seattle Times , Portland, Minnesota, Montana news etc etc . This contempt, threats and hatred is even very evident on hunting sites like rockslide, go hunt and on BHA social media. etc Go read the comments. There is an intense hatred and contempt for those living a rural lifestyle and the hate for the ranchers is even worse, Go take a look if you don't believe me.
There has been a huge culture war going on now in the US and it has spilled over into fishing and huntingDan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Very few people actually wish ill on other people. Everybody believes that their own motives are good. I would bet money that these people are not delighted that rural people are suffering from the effects of unmanaged wolves on the landscape. Most dont know, dont believe it, or dont care, but it doesnt help anybody to make up a boogeyman standing on an ivory tower and wringing their hands over your suffering.
100 percent that lots of people hate the rural lifestyle and the people who live it. hunt talk is another hunt website i watch the contempt for ranchers on some of there threads is really sad. and thats coming from hunters. I dont want to believe it either but the fact is a lot of people hate the rural lifestyle and love to see others suffer. Its shocking and depressing
Post by: ducks4days on July 08, 2021, 02:12:45 PM
Well, thats not even close to being true. Go on social media on wolf hunting groups, read the comments after articles on wolve management in Seattle Times , Portland, Minnesota, Montana news etc etc . This contempt, threats and hatred is even very evident on hunting sites like rockslide, go hunt and on BHA social media. etc Go read the comments. There is an intense hatred and contempt for those living a rural lifestyle and the hate for the ranchers is even worse, Go take a look if you don't believe me.
There has been a huge culture war going on now in the US and it has spilled over into fishing and huntingDan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Very few people actually wish ill on other people. Everybody believes that their own motives are good. I would bet money that these people are not delighted that rural people are suffering from the effects of unmanaged wolves on the landscape. Most dont know, dont believe it, or dont care, but it doesnt help anybody to make up a boogeyman standing on an ivory tower and wringing their hands over your suffering.
Social media gives a voice to the people which a community would normally shun for being an idiot, a liar, a crazy, or all of the above. There is over a million people living in king county, 150 idiots being loud on social media still meets the definition of "very few". There's plenty I dont like about them that actually applies to the group as a whole, but claiming that the majority of them wish you ill is a lie.
Post by: ducks4days on July 08, 2021, 02:19:00 PM
Dan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Very few people actually wish ill on other people. Everybody believes that their own motives are good. I would bet money that these people are not delighted that rural people are suffering from the effects of unmanaged wolves on the landscape. Most dont know, dont believe it, or dont care, but it doesnt help anybody to make up a boogeyman standing on an ivory tower and wringing their hands over your suffering.
All due respects, but that's incredibly naïve. Quite a few people from King Co. have not only called for an end to cattle ranching to "save the wolves", but have also called for the deaths of cattle ranchers, Like McErvin, because of wolf culling to save their livestock. King and Thurston counties are a hotbed of extremist views. We're not just talking about a few people. We're talking about enough people to elect idiots like Inslee and Ferguson.
Its a commonly understood principle in psychology above a high school level, niave might not be the right word. See my other commend about social media amplifying voices which would normally be ignored. It might seem like a lot because 150 people are saying something crazy but 150/1,300,000 is so small it statistically doesnt matter. If you are trying to win the fight, youre not going to do it by wearing yourself out against a group that barely exisits.
Post by: huntnphool on July 08, 2021, 02:48:46 PM
Dan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Very few people actually wish ill on other people. Everybody believes that their own motives are good. I would bet money that these people are not delighted that rural people are suffering from the effects of unmanaged wolves on the landscape. Most dont know, dont believe it, or dont care, but it doesnt help anybody to make up a boogeyman standing on an ivory tower and wringing their hands over your suffering.
All due respects, but that's incredibly naïve. Quite a few people from King Co. have not only called for an end to cattle ranching to "save the wolves", but have also called for the deaths of cattle ranchers, Like McErvin, because of wolf culling to save their livestock. King and Thurston counties are a hotbed of extremist views. We're not just talking about a few people. We're talking about enough people to elect idiots like Inslee and Ferguson.
Its a commonly understood principle in psychology above a high school level, niave might not be the right word. See my other commend about social media amplifying voices which would normally be ignored. It might seem like a lot because 150 people are saying something crazy but 150/1,300,000 is so small it statistically doesnt matter. If you are trying to win the fight, youre not going to do it by wearing yourself out against a group that barely exisits.
Really? What percentage of the population is the LGBTQRSTUV group in this country?...yet it now “statistically matters”. ;)
Post by: ducks4days on July 08, 2021, 03:43:13 PM
Dan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Very few people actually wish ill on other people. Everybody believes that their own motives are good. I would bet money that these people are not delighted that rural people are suffering from the effects of unmanaged wolves on the landscape. Most dont know, dont believe it, or dont care, but it doesnt help anybody to make up a boogeyman standing on an ivory tower and wringing their hands over your suffering.
All due respects, but that's incredibly naïve. Quite a few people from King Co. have not only called for an end to cattle ranching to "save the wolves", but have also called for the deaths of cattle ranchers, Like McErvin, because of wolf culling to save their livestock. King and Thurston counties are a hotbed of extremist views. We're not just talking about a few people. We're talking about enough people to elect idiots like Inslee and Ferguson.
Its a commonly understood principle in psychology above a high school level, niave might not be the right word. See my other commend about social media amplifying voices which would normally be ignored. It might seem like a lot because 150 people are saying something crazy but 150/1,300,000 is so small it statistically doesnt matter. If you are trying to win the fight, youre not going to do it by wearing yourself out against a group that barely exisits.
Really? What percentage of the population is the LGBTQRSTUV group in this country?...yet it now “statistically matters”. ;)
>1%, which this number is nowhere close to
Post by: ribka on July 08, 2021, 05:55:22 PM
Well, thats not even close to being true. Go on social media on wolf hunting groups, read the comments after articles on wolve management in Seattle Times , Portland, Minnesota, Montana news etc etc . This contempt, threats and hatred is even very evident on hunting sites like rockslide, go hunt and on BHA social media. etc Go read the comments. There is an intense hatred and contempt for those living a rural lifestyle and the hate for the ranchers is even worse, Go take a look if you don't believe me.
There has been a huge culture war going on now in the US and it has spilled over into fishing and huntingDan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Very few people actually wish ill on other people. Everybody believes that their own motives are good. I would bet money that these people are not delighted that rural people are suffering from the effects of unmanaged wolves on the landscape. Most dont know, dont believe it, or dont care, but it doesnt help anybody to make up a boogeyman standing on an ivory tower and wringing their hands over your suffering.
Social media gives a voice to the people which a community would normally shun for being an idiot, a liar, a crazy, or all of the above. There is over a million people living in king county, 150 idiots being loud on social media still meets the definition of "very few". There's plenty I dont like about them that actually applies to the group as a whole, but claiming that the majority of them wish you ill is a lie.
Post by: ducks4days on July 08, 2021, 06:06:57 PM
nothing personal but you're living in a disconnected reality if you think social media doesnt influence our culture, hunting and games laws now.Well, thats not even close to being true. Go on social media on wolf hunting groups, read the comments after articles on wolve management in Seattle Times , Portland, Minnesota, Montana news etc etc . This contempt, threats and hatred is even very evident on hunting sites like rockslide, go hunt and on BHA social media. etc Go read the comments. There is an intense hatred and contempt for those living a rural lifestyle and the hate for the ranchers is even worse, Go take a look if you don't believe me.
There has been a huge culture war going on now in the US and it has spilled over into fishing and huntingDan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Very few people actually wish ill on other people. Everybody believes that their own motives are good. I would bet money that these people are not delighted that rural people are suffering from the effects of unmanaged wolves on the landscape. Most dont know, dont believe it, or dont care, but it doesnt help anybody to make up a boogeyman standing on an ivory tower and wringing their hands over your suffering.
Social media gives a voice to the people which a community would normally shun for being an idiot, a liar, a crazy, or all of the above. There is over a million people living in king county, 150 idiots being loud on social media still meets the definition of "very few". There's plenty I dont like about them that actually applies to the group as a whole, but claiming that the majority of them wish you ill is a lie.
You quoted me but failed to show where I said it did
Post by: huntnphool on July 08, 2021, 11:23:53 PM
Dan-0: The Coast recovery region goals are in the plan to make the delisting of the Wolf unattainable for the WHOLE state.
It doesnt matter how many wolves are in Eastern Wa.
The entire plan is a moving mirage, smoke and mirrors, shell game.
I believe residents in areas where their world has changed for the worse because of uncontrolled wolves are finally figureing this out, and are frustrated knowing there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I believe the killing of wolves in Eastern Wa will increase. For these residents its not about the state its about protecting their County, Valley, Range, Ranch, and Hunting area.
Unfortunately, a majority of our state's population is uneducated about the wolves' impact, are educated and delighted at the effect on our rural economies and communities, or just don't care.
Very few people actually wish ill on other people. Everybody believes that their own motives are good. I would bet money that these people are not delighted that rural people are suffering from the effects of unmanaged wolves on the landscape. Most dont know, dont believe it, or dont care, but it doesnt help anybody to make up a boogeyman standing on an ivory tower and wringing their hands over your suffering.
All due respects, but that's incredibly naïve. Quite a few people from King Co. have not only called for an end to cattle ranching to "save the wolves", but have also called for the deaths of cattle ranchers, Like McErvin, because of wolf culling to save their livestock. King and Thurston counties are a hotbed of extremist views. We're not just talking about a few people. We're talking about enough people to elect idiots like Inslee and Ferguson.
Its a commonly understood principle in psychology above a high school level, niave might not be the right word. See my other commend about social media amplifying voices which would normally be ignored. It might seem like a lot because 150 people are saying something crazy but 150/1,300,000 is so small it statistically doesnt matter. If you are trying to win the fight, youre not going to do it by wearing yourself out against a group that barely exisits.
Really? What percentage of the population is the LGBTQRSTUV group in this country?...yet it now “statistically matters”. ;)
>1%, which this number is nowhere close to
Yet the entire country is being indoctrinated to bow down! :chuckle:
Thanks for being honest! ;)
Post by: hunter399 on July 09, 2021, 05:12:04 AM
Basically every hunter said ,"I see a wolf it's dead".
Look real hard wolf population in Idaho still grows to what it is today. This one wolf shot in Washington won't stop the master plan that is ahead of us. I'm fine with x amount of wolves in Washington,Not to manage them,refusing to document packs, allowing them to strip the hillsides of deer and elk is a pisser. Last year and this year deer and elk have moved to lower lands closer to people than ever before. And that will continue. As the prey animals move closer to people the wolves will move closer and conflicts such as this will continue.
Now on the other hand , I've heard some pretty crazy stuff here in Eastern WA .Some people have a hate for wolves that I don't think will ever end till every wolf is dead.
I will give one example .....
"Gut shot or shoot them in the rear end"
I've heard that more times than I can count on both hands.
The longer the state refuses to manage wolves on this side of the state,new management plan,wolf hunting season, or something the more this hate builds. The "conflicts"-Wolf killings we will see. The refuseal to manage wolves will be the end of hunting in this state. It's a very slow process of ending hunting.
I'm not claiming to be a biologist.
But I do believe wolves are similar to coyote.
We have a sustainable population on the dry side. The state could sell wolf tags for this side of the state. And never hurt the current population we have.With traditional hunt seasons,weapons,ect. But I will say this.
A wolf that doesn't fear man,will be a dead wolf.
Here on the dry side,and not by my hand,but by hate that grows by the day.
Post by: Whitpirate on July 09, 2021, 10:53:05 AM
Anyone who provides information that helps lead to an arrest may be eligible for a cash reward of up to $7,500 (CNW) or bonus points for special permit hunting opportunities.
This was the third wolf mortality documented by WDFW in 2021. A report released earlier this year indicated the state’s wolf population increased by an estimated 33 animals in 2020, with fewer lethal removals due to wolf-livestock conflict.
That is what I find ridiculous.... special points on a non-game animal to benefit harvest of a game animal is beyond the pale and highlights WDFW's predator first policies.
Bonus points for wolf? Now there is some motivation.
Post by: KFhunter on July 09, 2021, 11:10:05 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 09, 2021, 11:16:20 AM
Post by: hunter399 on July 09, 2021, 11:21:25 AM
Anyone who provides information that helps lead to an arrest may be eligible for a cash reward of up to $7,500 (CNW) or bonus points for special permit hunting opportunities.
This was the third wolf mortality documented by WDFW in 2021. A report released earlier this year indicated the state’s wolf population increased by an estimated 33 animals in 2020, with fewer lethal removals due to wolf-livestock conflict.
That is what I find ridiculous.... special points on a non-game animal to benefit harvest of a game animal is beyond the pale and highlights WDFW's predator first policies.
Bonus points for wolf? Now there is some motivation.
It's like that old saying...........
If a tree falls in the woods ,does it make a sound,if nobody see or hear it fall.
Same can be said about wolves.
With that said....
I have no intention of killing any wolves in tell a hunting season is in place.
But sometimes what happens in those woods stays in the woods.
Like my post above .....too much HATE.
If WDFW wants to stop this wolf killing crap ,they need to change there management plan ,slow down the hate that some people have here.
Post by: JohnVH on July 09, 2021, 11:44:43 AM
Post by: HighlandLofts on July 28, 2021, 06:09:47 AM
We at least have one person on our side with this increasing wolf problem.
Kudos for him.