Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: BULLBLASTER on April 26, 2009, 04:21:42 PM
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does anyone know what the winter kill was like in the coweeman?
thanks!!!
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We found more dead elk last year than any year before. And what we noticed is that there were less spikes than in years prior. And less calves. So the rags that you used to see will not be there. No spikes equals no 3 or 4 points.
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Just got an email from the biologist and here is a quote from him about the winter kill I asked about in the Coweeman since that is where I hunt also. I asked about a specific drainage, but he said they don't do surveys in that area. I deleted the name of the specific drainage I asked about :)
Generally we think the winter was not harsh. We do conduct surveys in the Toutle drainage and they are not completed for this year. Preliminary information looks like we had few elk die as a result of winter conditions.
This year was a bit milder than the preceding one when we lost many elk in SW Washington. I suspect that this loss influenced elk numbers to the point that marginal animals died in the 2007-08 winter and the resulting animals are probably in better condition.
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Probably the same bio that was denying mass winter kill up in lewis river/marble area...
I am telling you we found more dead elk than the last 10 years combined. And we hunt every drainage in the coweeman.
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my sons and i have'nt found as many as last year :twocents:
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The correct answer is don't ask don't tell, they don't want people to know there's nothing left.I personally saw over 1000 dead elk last year,and there starting to die off this year again.Ive been talking with these folks at the commission,and the WDFW biologists not to metion all the politions in the state.The general consensus is if we tell people whats really wrong they wont buy tags.This would mean a even broker WDFW, so i encourage you guys to get on the phone and call your state reps. The signs of sickness to elk and deer in our state all point to Disease, one the WDFW does not talk about called Necrotic Stomatitis, also called Fusobacterium necrophorum, it produces, hoof rot, calf diphtheria, oral cavity infections and can affect almost any body organ or joint. It is caused from animals being in poor health. Most of Washington elk are in poor health due to poor winter and summer habitat combined with over population. The disease stays with the animals all year, they never get well. The cure is Penacilen/Triamenic, or by increasing dietary protein levels to increase body condition. It was first discovered in Washington State, in Roosevelt elk, in the Olympic Peninsula in 1945. At that time they concluded that losses to this disease resulted both directly and indirectly from overpopulation and poor habitat. I urge you all to google Necrotic Stomatitis and learn for your self the symptoms and relate it to the elk dying in your area. We need to urge the WDFW spend some money to conduct a detailed study on elk an deer, before they are gone.B Barnes keeping public lands public.
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For those that might be interested
from and article I found dealing with pronghorns but has some infor on elk and deer
In elk that congregated on the winter feeding grounds of the National Elk Refuge, Jackson, Wyoming, necrobacillosis was identified as the principal cause of 409 deaths. The syndrome in elk primarily involved necrotic stomatitis, and calves were affected in two-thirds of these cases. Oral lesions involved the tongue, cheek, and gingiva and were thought to originate from the ulcerated, periodontal gingiva. Lesions of the forestomachs, liver, spleen, and lung were observed. Epizootics of necrobacillosis in deer have been reported in California and Canada.10 In California, hundreds of mule deer with lesions of necrobacillosis were found dead near mud holes, which served as their only water source. In Canada, groups of white-tailed and mule deer with lesions of necrobacillosis were found in areas associated with feeding cattle. These deer had necrotic stomatitis. The disease in wildlife is probably more prevalent than is reflected in published reports. The effects of autolysis and predation on carcasses often preclude accurate documentation in free-roaming ruminants.
full article here
http://www.vetpathology.org/cgi/content/full/38/5/549 (http://www.vetpathology.org/cgi/content/full/38/5/549)
and no point reinventing the wheel seems they have done a fair amount of study in Jackson hole dealing with the issues of disease in elk especially elk being artificially fed feedlot style.
very long read for those with time on their hands
http://www.fws.gov/bisonandelkplan/Draft%20EIS/Chapter_4-2_Elk.pdf (http://www.fws.gov/bisonandelkplan/Draft%20EIS/Chapter_4-2_Elk.pdf)
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last winter was not as harsh as others, we were able to work most of the winter in that unit, probably more elk died from being poached than from starving.
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Last winter was one of the harshest winters those animals have seen. There was snow at 1500 feet untill mid april. When there is no browse there is no food. We did have nice green summer so the animals that made it through were definatly healthier.
And if you saw the amount of dead animals we found your tune would be different. No way the animals we found were poached.
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So I suppose this bad news would apply to the Toutle GMU as well? :bash:
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Bobcat, cousin had the ML bull tag and we found alot of dead animals up in the toutle also.
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:dunno: i look at these post and wonder if all the elk in washington died i hunt close to the coweeman but wont hunt it because of the amount of people and just not enough mature bulls its a meat unit i hunt archery we found 3 or for winter kills a 6by 7 and 6 by 5 and a smaller bull but not a 1000 did someone dump a truck load some where they die every year a few more or a few less we brought hay in for the one in cougar and few other places we had bulls screaming everyday so we were not lacking elk due to winter kill this should be a good fun site but its kinda a downer and all about how big it is and not how much fun we have ive killed several bulls i cant get my hand around between the second and third point but none have hit that magical number everyone dreams of but when i close my and dream i still hear them when i sleep
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Bigbeamhunter, not trying to be a downer, trying to be a realist. And the 1000 stated was probably from the toutle river valley. There was a mass die off up on cedar flats that nobody wants to talk about, where you might find 3 or 4 dead elk a year, last year there were 3-4 per group found dead. And the game department decides to keep the cow tags as they are.
I guess we could just not say anything and stick our heads in the sand and be happy with the way things are or we can talk about it and try to get the situation fixed before it arises. A little more proactive instead of reactive.
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My understanding is that the WDFW's goal is to reduce the St. Helens elk herd, so isn't that exactly what they're doing? If their is an excessive number of animals dying every winter then it makes sense to use hunters to bring numbers down with the use of cow tags.
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less elk more feed for the ones strong enough to make it makes sense to me its the process of life you might not see as many as in years past but for me its because clearcuts are fewer and and more grown up but in sept. there always seems to be elk in every drainage .. i think in certain places there are more elk they are spreading to where there were not many if any elk before probaly because of so many elk and not enough food ..so instead of thinking a 1000 elk died think the ones that are still there and are healthier with more feed to eat because of it ..circle of life..
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WDFW Hates Me,
Have you been up there this year to see any winter kill? From reading your posts, I'm not sure if you're talking 2008/09 winter or the 2007/08 winter. I thought the 07/08 winter was worse this winter.
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I am talking about 07/08 winter. 09 not as bad.
But the 07/08 effects will be felt for a few years.
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WOOPS... wasnt trying to open a can of worms here, just trying to decide on archery or rifle this year, made up my mind... september is always the best anyway. talked to some people near where i hunt and there are still plenty of elk. try for bull #2 on the xforce!!!! :drool:
