Post by: idahohuntr on July 18, 2021, 09:04:02 AM
I'd suggest submitting comments by the Jul 28 deadline if you are inclined: https://wdfw.wa.gov/licenses/environmental/sepa/open-comments
A couple points I've thought of:
1. Baiting is regulated to 10 gallons, a small quantity which is very unlikely to concentrate animals to any degree
2. There is no scientific evidence of small bait quantities leading to the spread of CWD
3. CWD is not even in the state (or neighboring state ID)...so a preemptive ban is ridiculous.
4. Banning baiting is racist, sexist, and discriminatory against disabled hunters.
Post by: huntnnw on July 18, 2021, 09:06:21 AM
Post by: buckfvr on July 18, 2021, 09:24:33 AM
If you think success rates are low now, just wait and see what happens when all the guys who cant scout also cant dump food on the ground.
Ill add its been in the works for several years and theyve already got their minds made up on this.
Post by: hunter399 on July 18, 2021, 09:58:43 AM
WDFW ready for the loss of revenue that may be caused from there rule change.
Sounds like no more deer urine too.
NE Washington the wolves will save us all ,they only kill the sick ones right. What a joke.
First you decrease hunters by taking the bait option away.
Then CWD hits even more hunters drop out of the game.
Then what no revenue to deal with the problem.
Sounds like them elk feeding station gone.
Them elk herds will be gone by damage permits in no time.
Post by: Taco280AI on July 18, 2021, 10:06:39 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 18, 2021, 10:22:04 AM
"To Whom It May Concern,
Suggesting a preemptive ban on baiting for deer and elk, when there is no CWD in WA (or ID for that matter), is ridiculous. You’ve already limited the amount of bait allowed. We stood by and accepted it. Now, you want to ban it completely and for no justifiable reason? Your proposal would further reduce the ability of hunters in this state to fill their tags and feed their families. How about instead of yearly changes to the rules and seasons which negatively affect the people who pay your bills, you give us a break. Hunting in our state should not be as restricted as it already is. Do you want to encourage fewer and fewer people to take up hunting here? Because that’s what you’ve been doing. Stop the trend to discourage our state’s hunters and start with this idiotic proposal.
Pianoman
Master Hunter
Hunter Education Instructor
Conservationist and Ethical Hunter
License Holder for 26 Years
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on July 18, 2021, 10:26:16 AM
SEPAdesk2@dfw.wa.gov
Subject: Comment on SEPA No. 2021033
Post by: bullfever on July 18, 2021, 10:41:26 AM
Post by: hunter399 on July 18, 2021, 11:45:39 AM
This not only hurts the hunter but deer as well.
Post by: Special T on July 18, 2021, 12:53:35 PM
Post by: HAGEMANIAC on July 18, 2021, 01:45:42 PM
I don't really do Alot of feeding Durring the season ,I'm really too busy hunting. Pre-season and after the seasons through the winter.
This not only hurts the hunter but deer as well.
I'm with you. I bait to take inventory and see if an area is worth hunting, rarely do I hunt anywhere near the bait.
Post by: brokentrail on July 18, 2021, 02:10:43 PM
Where do they find these people?
Post by: Meathunter06 on July 18, 2021, 02:21:06 PM
Post by: HillHound on July 18, 2021, 03:46:08 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on July 18, 2021, 04:15:00 PM
Post by: johnaferrera on July 18, 2021, 06:21:27 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 18, 2021, 06:35:24 PM
Post by: huntnfmly on July 18, 2021, 06:42:35 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on July 18, 2021, 06:43:28 PM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.Can you point to any actual scientific evidence that placing small quantities of bait in dispersed areas concentrates the deer in a way that allows CWD to spread at a greater than "normal" rate? I've found no such evidence, just a general notion that "anything that might concentrate deer could increase spread of CWD".
I guess I'm trying to understand the logic in banning very small quantities of bait in a state with agriculture, orchards, and livestock operations that have a far greater effect in concentrating deer than a bucket of apples. To be fair, I did not read the entire document, perhaps WDFW is also recommending we eliminate all agriculture, livestock, and orchards in the state?? If they are not, then this is nothing but a slimy way of eliminating a hunting method...one that is so blatantly discriminatory that its supporters should be ashamed of themselves.
Post by: buckfvr on July 18, 2021, 07:27:12 PM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
Maybe you need to have a close look over here at all the deer that share the mineral tubs all spring and summer with the cows, and in the winter wind up cleaning up alfalfa after the cows are fed, literally scores even hundreds of deer lick the same spot over and over year in and year out. Im not young either but this is what I see season after season as I live with the whitetail. Baiting ban is for one thing and one thing alone.......appeasing the anti constituency. You are reading and believing agenda driven bs. And no, I dont use bait all the time but Ill be damned if I think I need to be told I cant if I deem it necessary.
Post by: emac on July 18, 2021, 07:37:29 PM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.Guys don't fall into this trolls lap!!!
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Post by: mburrows on July 18, 2021, 07:49:45 PM
Plus if you can only set out 10 gallons of apples, I’ve seen 5-6 deer wipe that out in 1 or 2 days. Not like we’re talking about 50-60 spending weeks at a bait pile in 90% of baiting scenarios.
Post by: hunter399 on July 18, 2021, 08:40:29 PM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
Then every private property owner in the state will still bait deer on there property,and the only person not able to is the public land hunter.
I will also add, depending on where you hunt on the east side for whitetail there's a pretty good chance that the deer you harvest was eating on "someones" minerals or bait at one time or another. I hate to break it to ya ,the deer you got was big and fat or even in the area was cause a guy like me made it so.
Post by: huntnnw on July 18, 2021, 09:42:32 PM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
from that response you obviously have 0 knowledge of ungulate behavior. Or you are a troll with your 3 posts on this forum
Post by: Lucky1 on July 18, 2021, 09:44:03 PM
Post by: bigmacc on July 18, 2021, 09:55:37 PM
Does not surprise me one bit, we haven't had a "Game Department" in a long time folks, when we did are herds were in a lot better shape, they had their flaws for sure but at least most of them actually cared AND the majority of them were sportsmen and hunters themselves. Its a whole new breed now, this truly does not surprise me.
Post by: bbarnes on July 18, 2021, 10:22:09 PM
Post by: duckmen1 on July 18, 2021, 10:37:59 PM
Post by: Twispriver on July 18, 2021, 10:57:07 PM
Post by: huntnnw on July 18, 2021, 11:09:53 PM
Post by: hunter399 on July 19, 2021, 02:56:29 AM
Post by: rasbo on July 19, 2021, 03:11:01 AM
Post by: Jingles on July 19, 2021, 05:51:19 AM
Post by: bigtex on July 19, 2021, 06:19:13 AM
There are hundreds of WDFW management plans which each have dozens of recommendations of which very few are actually implemented.
Is WDFW currently enacting a rule to ban baiting? NO
Is there a current proposal to ban baiting in front of the Commission? NO
What we have here is simply a draft management plan with recommendations. When you read the document numerous times you see "the Department recommends" that simply means the three individuals (Mansfield, DeVivo, and Hansen) who wrote the report. The report basically adopted the recommendations that the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies put out for reducing CWD.
Personally, I'd keep it on my radar but I wouldn't get all worked up thinking a baiting ban is in the imminent future :twocents:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 19, 2021, 06:27:15 AM
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2021, 06:48:03 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on July 19, 2021, 08:10:53 AM
I wanted to add some insight into this.Folks - Don't get complacent. While Bigtex is technically correct, I'd strongly advise we not find ourselves playing checkers when the opponents are playing chess. This is exactly how bureaucrats pull this stuff off. It was a hard fight 4 or 5 years ago when baiting was before the Commission. If this CWD plan gets approved it will make it extremely easy for the Commission to ban baiting. "We are just following the science" will be the mantra and with the current Commission make up it will likely be a unanimous vote.
There are hundreds of WDFW management plans which each have dozens of recommendations of which very few are actually implemented.
Is WDFW currently enacting a rule to ban baiting? NO
Is there a current proposal to ban baiting in front of the Commission? NO
What we have here is simply a draft management plan with recommendations. When you read the document numerous times you see "the Department recommends" that simply means the three individuals (Mansfield, DeVivo, and Hansen) who wrote the report. The report basically adopted the recommendations that the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies put out for reducing CWD.
Personally, I'd keep it on my radar but I wouldn't get all worked up thinking a baiting ban is in the imminent future :twocents:
Lacking any credible evidence that small quantities of bait in dispersed areas increases CWD disease transmission...there should be NO recommendation from the Department to ban baiting...especially if they are not recommending immediate changes to the myriad of other actions that have a far greater effect in concentrating deer.
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2021, 08:54:02 AM
I'll be doing my part and firing off a letter. Ending baiting will hurt archery the most.
Post by: huntnnw on July 19, 2021, 03:07:19 PM
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on July 19, 2021, 03:56:08 PM
Herds are collapsing, ending baiting helps keep a few more deer for predators
The mule deer herd that I have fed for 14 years has really taken a hit since Feb. Seven of the dominant breeding does have all gone missing ( two of them were over 14 years old ). they would all have twins every year....one quarter of the fawns would survive. I also had 5 yearling spike bucks that all but one has gone missing. Neighbor has a pic of the collared cougar that jrebel has on his cam from 3 miles away. Also 4 other individual cats. They are wiping out the local mulies. Sickening. Started 14 years ago with 34 deer and today have about 12. That is not counting the whitetail.
Post by: idaho guy on July 19, 2021, 05:04:08 PM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
That’s a discouraging statement to hear from another hunter. I don’t do it so screw the other guys ? It’s already been stated that this will have NO effect on cwd deer and elk congregate in way larger numbers for many things beyond a bucket of apples. This was the attitude people probably had with bear baiting and hounds. I’m sure there were “superior” bear hunters who didn’t need bait or dogs back then too.
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2021, 05:06:31 PM
Post by: KB88 on July 19, 2021, 05:23:02 PM
Just like covid they use mandates to push agendas. I still call for mass exodus and stop hunting/fishing for a year. Only way we stand a chance anymore, since public stoning is apparently frowned upon in today’s society.
Post by: BNAElkhntr on July 19, 2021, 05:42:12 PM
Done
"To Whom It May Concern,
Suggesting a preemptive ban on baiting for deer and elk, when there is no CWD in WA (or ID for that matter), is ridiculous. You’ve already limited the amount of bait allowed. We stood by and accepted it. Now, you want to ban it completely and for no justifiable reason? Your proposal would further reduce the ability of hunters in this state to fill their tags and feed their families. How about instead of yearly changes to the rules and seasons which negatively affect the people who pay your bills, you give us a break. Hunting in our state should not be as restricted as it already is. Do you want to encourage fewer and fewer people to take up hunting here? Because that’s what you’ve been doing. Stop the trend to discourage our state’s hunters and start with this idiotic proposal
Pianoman
Master Hunter
Hunter Education Instructor
Conservationist and Ethical Hunter
License Holder for 26 Years
Thanks Piano Copy and pasted added my name and address for realism[/size]
Post by: ducks4days on July 19, 2021, 06:58:27 PM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
That’s a discouraging statement to hear from another hunter. I don’t do it so screw the other guys ? It’s already been stated that this will have NO effect on cwd deer and elk congregate in way larger numbers for many things beyond a bucket of apples. This was the attitude people probably had with bear baiting and hounds. I’m sure there were “superior” bear hunters who didn’t need bait or dogs back then too.
I dont personally bait, and I dont hold the same respect for people who hunt over bait as I do for people who go pay more in sweat equity for their kills. That said, a ban on any existing hunting technique is a ban on all hunting techniques, and I sure as hell dont support it. Keep in mind that the strategy we are fighting against is the "death by a thousand cuts" play. We need to be vigilant and support all ethical forms of our hunting heritage, irrelevant of whether or not we hunt that specific game or in that specific way.
Post by: jrebel on July 19, 2021, 07:35:23 PM
Herds are collapsing, ending baiting helps keep a few more deer for predators
The mule deer herd that I have fed for 14 years has really taken a hit since Feb. Seven of the dominant breeding does have all gone missing ( two of them were over 14 years old ). they would all have twins every year....one quarter of the fawns would survive. I also had 5 yearling spike bucks that all but one has gone missing. Neighbor has a pic of the collared cougar that jrebel has on his cam from 3 miles away. Also 4 other individual cats. They are wiping out the local mulies. Sickening. Started 14 years ago with 34 deer and today have about 12. That is not counting the whitetail.
I have two females (at least I believe they are female based on size) on camera over the last two weeks. Bears are running rampant in all of the NE as well.......AND OUR WDFW IS WORRIED ABOUT CWD AND BAIT PILES!!!!! If it wasn't so serious....it would almost be laughable. WDFW SUCKS (insert middle finger emoji here).
I'm tired of WDFW and our state taking, taking, taking and taking some more with no concessions. Kill the predators and then we can talk CWD, until then you can suck an egg.
Post by: hunter399 on July 19, 2021, 08:41:37 PM
Herds are collapsing, ending baiting helps keep a few more deer for predators
The mule deer herd that I have fed for 14 years has really taken a hit since Feb. Seven of the dominant breeding does have all gone missing ( two of them were over 14 years old ). they would all have twins every year....one quarter of the fawns would survive. I also had 5 yearling spike bucks that all but one has gone missing. Neighbor has a pic of the collared cougar that jrebel has on his cam from 3 miles away. Also 4 other individual cats. They are wiping out the local mulies. Sickening. Started 14 years ago with 34 deer and today have about 12. That is not counting the whitetail.
I have two females (at least I believe they are female based on size) on camera over the last two weeks. Bears are running rampant in all of the NE as well.......AND OUR WDFW IS WORRIED ABOUT CWD AND BAIT PILES!!!!! If it wasn't so serious....it would almost be laughable. WDFW SUCKS (insert middle finger emoji here).
I'm tired of WDFW and our state taking, taking, taking and taking some more with no concessions. Kill the predators and then we can talk CWD, until then you can suck an egg.
Knowing your local area and I have a pretty good idea.
Wolves are up high and have ran cougar everywhere.
I Agree with both your statement . The mule deer are getting hit very hard. Up high in the mountains/down low/everywhere. Pretty much to the point of extinction. But it's ok for WDFW to eliminate mule deer in Stevens county for wolves and cougar. I can guarantee that there predator/prey study is not show the extinction of mule deer in there traditional areas,there gonna act like the mule deer was never there. It's sickening. I'm trying to say wolves have started a chain reaction of moving animals to a pile of dust.
Just remember them wolves are just a few miles up the mountain from you guys. Those wolves will push there competition down. It's taken a few years to see the total repercussions wolves have brought, hopefully now your eyes are open. Mule deer in Stevens county are dead or as good as dead. Now you know. WDFW won't make any special regulations,The only regulations we get is no antlerless harvest of whitetail or mule deer. And Now that you guys can see more clearly,by the time WDFW does anything to help mule deer they will be gone.And only old timers like us will remember they where even here. Really just a sad story.
Just to add most of the mule deer are gone up in the mountain,where the wolf territory is. Cougar have no choice in being in low elevation. But don't be surprised here soon when you hear them howling at your backdoor. It will come soon there is nothing up high for them to eat. They are not far behind those cougar.
Post by: jrebel on July 19, 2021, 09:01:30 PM
Herds are collapsing, ending baiting helps keep a few more deer for predators
The mule deer herd that I have fed for 14 years has really taken a hit since Feb. Seven of the dominant breeding does have all gone missing ( two of them were over 14 years old ). they would all have twins every year....one quarter of the fawns would survive. I also had 5 yearling spike bucks that all but one has gone missing. Neighbor has a pic of the collared cougar that jrebel has on his cam from 3 miles away. Also 4 other individual cats. They are wiping out the local mulies. Sickening. Started 14 years ago with 34 deer and today have about 12. That is not counting the whitetail.
I have two females (at least I believe they are female based on size) on camera over the last two weeks. Bears are running rampant in all of the NE as well.......AND OUR WDFW IS WORRIED ABOUT CWD AND BAIT PILES!!!!! If it wasn't so serious....it would almost be laughable. WDFW SUCKS (insert middle finger emoji here).
I'm tired of WDFW and our state taking, taking, taking and taking some more with no concessions. Kill the predators and then we can talk CWD, until then you can suck an egg.
Knowing your local area and I have a pretty good idea.
Wolves are up high and have ran cougar everywhere.
I Agree with both your statement . The mule deer are getting hit very hard. Up high in the mountains/down low/everywhere. Pretty much to the point of extinction. But it's ok for WDFW to eliminate mule deer in Stevens county for wolves and cougar. I can guarantee that there predator/prey study is not show the extinction of mule deer in there traditional areas,there gonna act like the mule deer was never there. It's sickening. I'm trying to say wolves have started a chain reaction of moving animals to a pile of dust.
Just remember them wolves are just a few miles up the mountain from you guys. Those wolves will push there competition down. It's taken a few years to see the total repercussions wolves have brought, hopefully now your eyes are open. Mule deer in Stevens county are dead or as good as dead. Now you know. WDFW won't make any special regulations,The only regulations we get is no antlerless harvest of whitetail or mule deer. And Now that you guys can see more clearly,by the time WDFW does anything to help mule deer they will be gone.And only old timers like us will remember they where even here. Really just a sad story.
Just to add most of the mule deer are gone up in the mountain,where the wolf territory is. Cougar have no choice in being in low elevation. But don't be surprised here soon when you hear them howling at your backdoor. It will come soon there is nothing up high for them to eat. They are not far behind those cougar.
Yes, very sad indeed. I have had 3 wolves on camera over the last three years too. :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: idaho guy on July 19, 2021, 09:19:45 PM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
That’s a discouraging statement to hear from another hunter. I don’t do it so screw the other guys ? It’s already been stated that this will have NO effect on cwd deer and elk congregate in way larger numbers for many things beyond a bucket of apples. This was the attitude people probably had with bear baiting and hounds. I’m sure there were “superior” bear hunters who didn’t need bait or dogs back then too.
I dont personally bait, and I dont hold the same respect for people who hunt over bait as I do for people who go pay more in sweat equity for their kills. That said, a ban on any existing hunting technique is a ban on all hunting techniques, and I sure as hell dont support it. Keep in mind that the strategy we are fighting against is the "death by a thousand cuts" play. We need to be vigilant and support all ethical forms of our hunting heritage, irrelevant of whether or not we hunt that specific game or in that specific way.
:tup: :tup: It doesn’t even affect me and I will fight for it to stay too! I don’t even hunt Washington but stumbled on this sight years ago and it’s been hard to leave. It’s scary to watch what they have done in Washington just since I got on here. unfortunately the same tactics are being tried in all western states they just don’t have the political capital to make it work in other states outside Oregon,California and Washington. YET we need to stand together and quit saying bullcrap like” I have never needed to-(insert hunting method)” it’s an ignorant sort of pride and it will be the end of our heritage that for many of us has been passed down for generations.
Post by: jrebel on July 19, 2021, 09:47:00 PM
Post by: idaho guy on July 19, 2021, 10:01:00 PM
Herds are collapsing, ending baiting helps keep a few more deer for predators
The mule deer herd that I have fed for 14 years has really taken a hit since Feb. Seven of the dominant breeding does have all gone missing ( two of them were over 14 years old ). they would all have twins every year....one quarter of the fawns would survive. I also had 5 yearling spike bucks that all but one has gone missing. Neighbor has a pic of the collared cougar that jrebel has on his cam from 3 miles away. Also 4 other individual cats. They are wiping out the local mulies. Sickening. Started 14 years ago with 34 deer and today have about 12. That is not counting the whitetail.
I have two females (at least I believe they are female based on size) on camera over the last two weeks. Bears are running rampant in all of the NE as well.......AND OUR WDFW IS WORRIED ABOUT CWD AND BAIT PILES!!!!! If it wasn't so serious....it would almost be laughable. WDFW SUCKS (insert middle finger emoji here).
I'm tired of WDFW and our state taking, taking, taking and taking some more with no concessions. Kill the predators and then we can talk CWD, until then you can suck an egg.
Knowing your local area and I have a pretty good idea.
Wolves are up high and have ran cougar everywhere.
I Agree with both your statement . The mule deer are getting hit very hard. Up high in the mountains/down low/everywhere. Pretty much to the point of extinction. But it's ok for WDFW to eliminate mule deer in Stevens county for wolves and cougar. I can guarantee that there predator/prey study is not show the extinction of mule deer in there traditional areas,there gonna act like the mule deer was never there. It's sickening. I'm trying to say wolves have started a chain reaction of moving animals to a pile of dust.
Just remember them wolves are just a few miles up the mountain from you guys. Those wolves will push there competition down. It's taken a few years to see the total repercussions wolves have brought, hopefully now your eyes are open. Mule deer in Stevens county are dead or as good as dead. Now you know. WDFW won't make any special regulations,The only regulations we get is no antlerless harvest of whitetail or mule deer. And Now that you guys can see more clearly,by the time WDFW does anything to help mule deer they will be gone.And only old timers like us will remember they where even here. Really just a sad story.
Just to add most of the mule deer are gone up in the mountain,where the wolf territory is. Cougar have no choice in being in low elevation. But don't be surprised here soon when you hear them howling at your backdoor. It will come soon there is nothing up high for them to eat. They are not far behind those cougar.
Yes, very sad indeed. I have had 3 wolves on camera over the last three years too. :bash: :bash: :bash:
It wasn’t very long ago many on here would argue tooth and nail that wolves were not going to be a problem 😂 If you raised the concerns about wolves they said we were wearing tin foil hats and that we would just have to hunt harder or become better hunters lol. Don’t see them commenting much on that anymore. This was at the height of unmanaged or lightly managed wolves in Idaho and they were just showing up in Washington. The reason our Idaho elk herds disappeared in the presence of large predator numbers was strictly HABITAT. What do you say now pro-wolfers? It’s usually crickets now days. One of the biggest pro wolf they won’t be a problem members is commenting on this thread. Follow the science they said! Look I have all this data and peer reviewed studies you superstitious redneck! I wish I and others would have been wrong. Predators eat deer and elk. You can’t avoid that fact no matter what the biologists say in there peer reviewed studies and charts of endless data. Baiting is the same tactic-just keep taking away opportunities when even a blind man can see deer and elk gathering in huge numbers for everything BUT a 5 gallon bucket of apples. Sorry for the rant but you can see these tactics slowly moving to places like Colorado. It’s time to fight this crap together. I have tried to leave this site many times but it’s a great site really and I have gotten caught up in Washington’s game management even though I have yet to hunt Washington myself. It’s irritating to see game intentionally mis-managed even if it doesn’t affect me.YET I think anyone who doesn’t care because it doesn’t affect them should remember it doesn’t affect them yet. Off my soap box for the evening I probably got a little bit too righteous :chuckle: sorry for the major derail to wolves. By the way whatever happened to aspen bud ? That guy loved wolves!🤔😂 I am sending e mail. Carry on
Post by: huntnnw on July 19, 2021, 10:34:48 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 19, 2021, 10:37:13 PM
pretty sad to see whats happened in parts of 105 that I grew up hunting. There use to be muleys everywhere we hunted, whitetails everywhere and elk were starting to take hold. Fast forward 25 years later and seeing a muley is now a rarity and whitetails are not far behind. When I grew up hunting there we could bait bears and run hounds and there was very few wolves. There seem to be a good balance of predators and prey in those hills. Now its a predator pit with almost everything wiped out.
the upshot is I haven't smoked a deer in my grill in years
25 years ago lot's of roadkill
Post by: hunter399 on July 20, 2021, 06:11:38 AM
But I really do think that hunters and just kind people feeding the deer through the winter has really one thing that has kept deer population ok in NE Washington. Without winter feeding predators will have a hay day.
Post by: KFhunter on July 20, 2021, 07:56:30 AM
I scout for lions *a lot* and always finds tracks on the road when I drive by someone feeding deer after a snow
Post by: jrebel on July 20, 2021, 08:24:15 AM
I dunno, I kinda think feeding through the winter concentrate deer and make it easier for predators
I scout for lions *a lot* and always finds tracks on the road when I drive by someone feeding deer after a snow
Cats will always congregate where deer populations are highest…..feed or no feed the deer bunch up in the winter. The only difference is deer have food to keep them healthy and hopefully fend off predators. Feed has nothing to do with predators during the winter months in my opinion.
Post by: hunter399 on July 20, 2021, 08:35:30 AM
Thanks jrebelI dunno, I kinda think feeding through the winter concentrate deer and make it easier for predators
I scout for lions *a lot* and always finds tracks on the road when I drive by someone feeding deer after a snow
Cats will always congregate where deer populations are highest…..feed or no feed the deer bunch up in the winter. The only difference is deer have food to keep them healthy and hopefully fend off predators. Feed has nothing to do with predators during the winter months in my opinion.
I was just gonna say the same thing.
I have pics of cats in summer,and on the same cam deer with claw marks in its side. The only feed was a salt block.
Was the deer attacked cause of the salt or because the cougar was hungry.
In the winter your always gonna find predator tracks where the deer are the most. If there eating natural food or feed.
Your gonna notice it a little more when it comes to feed.
I really do love tracking stuff in the winter though ,you do get to see into what's going on exactly.
It's like the glass half full or half empty ,still water in there.
Cougar hungry or not hungry but there still there.
I have the pic of the cats.
I might have to look for the deer with the claw marks.
But a friend that lives in the area,told me he seen three cats jump the road the other day. So I'm kinda thinking almost a year later they are still with there mommy.
Post by: Rainier10 on July 20, 2021, 08:41:25 AM
Post by: hunter399 on July 20, 2021, 09:01:22 AM
But I think I ran five cams last year ,all of them had a big block of salt ,and I just leave them. And like this year my cams are all in different spots . That happens Alot with me from year to year . There are spots I haven't been to in years and there probably is still salt there.
Post by: bullfever on July 20, 2021, 09:26:00 AM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
That’s a discouraging statement to hear from another hunter. I don’t do it so screw the other guys ? It’s already been stated that this will have NO effect on cwd deer and elk congregate in way larger numbers for many things beyond a bucket of apples. This was the attitude people probably had with bear baiting and hounds. I’m sure there were “superior” bear hunters who didn’t need bait or dogs back then too.
I dont personally bait, and I dont hold the same respect for people who hunt over bait as I do for people who go pay more in sweat equity for their kills. That said, a ban on any existing hunting technique is a ban on all hunting techniques, and I sure as hell dont support it. Keep in mind that the strategy we are fighting against is the "death by a thousand cuts" play. We need to be vigilant and support all ethical forms of our hunting heritage, irrelevant of whether or not we hunt that specific game or in that specific way.
Let me enlighten you -
Maintaining a bait site properly requires a serious amount of work and dedication. The enormous amount of feed you bring in with you to then navigate off road off trail is overwhelming for most.
Setting up and changing your stand (if you have one) from tree to tree to account for the direction of thermals based on what direction game will likely come in from.
What some don't realize is that by running a site like this, it allows the hunter to be very selective. For example, since we're talking about deer/elk bait rules here, a hunter can wait for a mature buck to show up and harvest it if he chooses. This is the best scenario from a game management perspective. Typically people running dedicated bait sites are only going to be harvesting mature animals. I can't say the same for those that don't.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 20, 2021, 09:34:43 AM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
That’s a discouraging statement to hear from another hunter. I don’t do it so screw the other guys ? It’s already been stated that this will have NO effect on cwd deer and elk congregate in way larger numbers for many things beyond a bucket of apples. This was the attitude people probably had with bear baiting and hounds. I’m sure there were “superior” bear hunters who didn’t need bait or dogs back then too.
I dont personally bait, and I dont hold the same respect for people who hunt over bait as I do for people who go pay more in sweat equity for their kills. That said, a ban on any existing hunting technique is a ban on all hunting techniques, and I sure as hell dont support it. Keep in mind that the strategy we are fighting against is the "death by a thousand cuts" play. We need to be vigilant and support all ethical forms of our hunting heritage, irrelevant of whether or not we hunt that specific game or in that specific way.
Let me enlighten you -
Maintaining a bait site properly requires a serious amount of work and dedication. The enormous amount of feed you bring in with you to then navigate off road off trail is overwhelming for most.
Setting up and changing your stand (if you have one) from tree to tree to account for the direction of thermals based on what direction game will likely come in from.
What some don't realize is that by running a site like this, it allows the hunter to be very selective. For example, since we're talking about deer/elk bait rules here, a hunter can wait for a mature buck to show up and harvest it if he chooses. This is the best scenario from a game management perspective. Typically people running dedicated bait sites are only going to be harvesting mature animals. I can't say the same for those that don't.
I've never baited. I've also never proposed that my fellow hunters be banned from it, especially when we don't have CWD in WA. If it shows up in WA, perhaps an immediate ban, to include DFW feeding sites, may be a prudent step. However, with the absence of a reason to do so, I'm disappointed in hunters who would seek to limit the legal activities of other hunters because of personal bias and choice. We have enough restriction in this state without stabbing each other in the back to create further, unwarranted regulation.
Post by: Special T on July 20, 2021, 10:01:35 AM
Ive put out some apples before but not shot anything overthem....
Post by: ctwiggs1 on July 20, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
I don't think throwing apples and corn on the ground is going to bring several hundred deer into your stand.
Post by: hunter399 on July 20, 2021, 10:11:20 AM
I'm almost sure many deer that are harvested every year , are just coming and going from someones bait site.Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
That’s a discouraging statement to hear from another hunter. I don’t do it so screw the other guys ? It’s already been stated that this will have NO effect on cwd deer and elk congregate in way larger numbers for many things beyond a bucket of apples. This was the attitude people probably had with bear baiting and hounds. I’m sure there were “superior” bear hunters who didn’t need bait or dogs back then too.
I dont personally bait, and I dont hold the same respect for people who hunt over bait as I do for people who go pay more in sweat equity for their kills. That said, a ban on any existing hunting technique is a ban on all hunting techniques, and I sure as hell dont support it. Keep in mind that the strategy we are fighting against is the "death by a thousand cuts" play. We need to be vigilant and support all ethical forms of our hunting heritage, irrelevant of whether or not we hunt that specific game or in that specific way.
Let me enlighten you -
Maintaining a bait site properly requires a serious amount of work and dedication. The enormous amount of feed you bring in with you to then navigate off road off trail is overwhelming for most.
Setting up and changing your stand (if you have one) from tree to tree to account for the direction of thermals based on what direction game will likely come in from.
What some don't realize is that by running a site like this, it allows the hunter to be very selective. For example, since we're talking about deer/elk bait rules here, a hunter can wait for a mature buck to show up and harvest it if he chooses. This is the best scenario from a game management perspective. Typically people running dedicated bait sites are only going to be harvesting mature animals. I can't say the same for those that don't.
And these hunters didn't even know it.
:tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil:
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 20, 2021, 10:13:52 AM
The most concentrated I ever saw whitetail was over alfalfa pastures.
I don't think throwing apples and corn on the ground is going to bring several hundred deer into your stand.
Perhaps we should ban any agricultural product which attracts deer. :dunno:
Post by: hunter399 on July 20, 2021, 10:17:14 AM
The science say we should. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:The most concentrated I ever saw whitetail was over alfalfa pastures.
I don't think throwing apples and corn on the ground is going to bring several hundred deer into your stand.
Perhaps we should ban any agricultural product which attracts deer. :dunno:
Post by: ctwiggs1 on July 20, 2021, 10:27:45 AM
This is all just another cut in the death by 1000, and it will gain some hunter support from those who don't bait. I have baited (don't anymore) and would bait again, but I don't need to in the areas I hunt.
If I were hunting a high concentration area with doe tags to fill the freezer on small plot, I wouldn't think twice.
Curtis
Post by: Ghost Hunter on July 20, 2021, 10:28:48 AM
Herds are collapsing, ending baiting helps keep a few more deer for predators
The mule deer herd that I have fed for 14 years has really taken a hit since Feb. Seven of the dominant breeding does have all gone missing ( two of them were over 14 years old ). they would all have twins every year....one quarter of the fawns would survive. I also had 5 yearling spike bucks that all but one has gone missing. Neighbor has a pic of the collared cougar that jrebel has on his cam from 3 miles away. Also 4 other individual cats. They are wiping out the local mulies. Sickening. Started 14 years ago with 34 deer and today have about 12. That is not counting the whitetail.
I have two females (at least I believe they are female based on size) on camera over the last two weeks. Bears are running rampant in all of the NE as well.......AND OUR WDFW IS WORRIED ABOUT CWD AND BAIT PILES!!!!! If it wasn't so serious....it would almost be laughable. WDFW SUCKS (insert middle finger emoji here).
I'm tired of WDFW and our state taking, taking, taking and taking some more with no concessions. Kill the predators and then we can talk CWD, until then you can suck an egg.
Knowing your local area and I have a pretty good idea.
Wolves are up high and have ran cougar everywhere.
I Agree with both your statement . The mule deer are getting hit very hard. Up high in the mountains/down low/everywhere. Pretty much to the point of extinction. But it's ok for WDFW to eliminate mule deer in Stevens county for wolves and cougar. I can guarantee that there predator/prey study is not show the extinction of mule deer in there traditional areas,there gonna act like the mule deer was never there. It's sickening. I'm trying to say wolves have started a chain reaction of moving animals to a pile of dust.
Just remember them wolves are just a few miles up the mountain from you guys. Those wolves will push there competition down. It's taken a few years to see the total repercussions wolves have brought, hopefully now your eyes are open. Mule deer in Stevens county are dead or as good as dead. Now you know. WDFW won't make any special regulations,The only regulations we get is no antlerless harvest of whitetail or mule deer. And Now that you guys can see more clearly,by the time WDFW does anything to help mule deer they will be gone.And only old timers like us will remember they where even here. Really just a sad story.
Just to add most of the mule deer are gone up in the mountain,where the wolf territory is. Cougar have no choice in being in low elevation. But don't be surprised here soon when you hear them howling at your backdoor. It will come soon there is nothing up high for them to eat. They are not far behind those cougar.
Yes, very sad indeed. I have had 3 wolves on camera over the last three years too. :bash: :bash: :bash:
I've had four in last 2 years. Let's see if what happened to the first two happen to the latest ones. Had a cougar cruise my food plot just a few days after the wolves.
Post by: KFhunter on July 20, 2021, 10:52:32 AM
I have my feeders in open areas hoping that the deer will see a predator coming and have lots of escape routes.
Great idea
Post by: bearpaw on July 20, 2021, 10:58:46 AM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
That is a false statement, the fact is that until CWD is actually in Washington baiting or any other activity for that matter has absolutely no impact on the spread of CWD. As far as I know the nearest CWD is in Montana, there is no baiting allowed in Montana, it's been that way for as long as I can remember, so right there is proof that baiting by hunters most likely did not cause the spread of CWD into Montana!
This is just another attempt to ban baiting for no biological reason!
Post by: jrebel on July 20, 2021, 11:05:58 AM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
That is a false statement, the fact is that until CWD is actually in Washington baiting or any other activity for that matter has absolutely no impact on the spread of CWD. As far as I know the nearest CWD is in Montana, there is no baiting allowed in Montana, it's been that way for as long as I can remember, so right there is proof that baiting by hunters most likely did not cause the spread of CWD into Montana!
This is just another attempt to ban baiting for no biological reason!
This is my understanding also. I included all of that information in the e-mail I sent off. Washington keeps taking and taking and taking...... :bash:
Post by: buckfvr on July 20, 2021, 11:46:58 AM
If you dont think wdfw is laying the ground work, you havent been paying attention. This is how they sleaze their agenda.
Post by: hunter399 on July 20, 2021, 11:50:56 AM
Its not the wolves running the cougars out of the hills, its just the cougars following the deer. Same results either way.I can agree that.
Post by: mburrows on July 20, 2021, 03:05:01 PM
Cwd is literally 2 countys away. 70 miles as the crow flys. It probably just a matter of time before its here. Banning baiting would slow it down. i never had a problem harvesting a whitetail on public land without bait and i am not young. From what i read it really spreads were deer are concentrated together. I personally dont relish the idea of eating a cwd deer.
That’s a discouraging statement to hear from another hunter. I don’t do it so screw the other guys ? It’s already been stated that this will have NO effect on cwd deer and elk congregate in way larger numbers for many things beyond a bucket of apples. This was the attitude people probably had with bear baiting and hounds. I’m sure there were “superior” bear hunters who didn’t need bait or dogs back then too.
I dont personally bait, and I dont hold the same respect for people who hunt over bait as I do for people who go pay more in sweat equity for their kills. That said, a ban on any existing hunting technique is a ban on all hunting techniques, and I sure as hell dont support it. Keep in mind that the strategy we are fighting against is the "death by a thousand cuts" play. We need to be vigilant and support all ethical forms of our hunting heritage, irrelevant of whether or not we hunt that specific game or in that specific way.
Let me enlighten you -
Maintaining a bait site properly requires a serious amount of work and dedication. The enormous amount of feed you bring in with you to then navigate off road off trail is overwhelming for most.
Setting up and changing your stand (if you have one) from tree to tree to account for the direction of thermals based on what direction game will likely come in from.
What some don't realize is that by running a site like this, it allows the hunter to be very selective. For example, since we're talking about deer/elk bait rules here, a hunter can wait for a mature buck to show up and harvest it if he chooses. This is the best scenario from a game management perspective. Typically people running dedicated bait sites are only going to be harvesting mature animals. I can't say the same for those that don't.
Ill second that, I baited last year (whitetail) and it was a ton work. A) deer dont just show up to bait out of no where, you still have to scout and find an area that holds deer, especially one you'd like to put tag on which isnt saying much by my standards. Like anything else, these spots are hard to find. B) they go through 10 gallons of apples or corn FAST. Stop checking your site and you're back to square one (at least where I hunted). C) if a single bear comes in your "bait" is gone in an hour.
I set up my pile in a national forest on public ground. Each time I had to re-bait, my butt had to hike in with 50~ pounds of apples or corn for one spot and I ran multi spots. Its not as easy as it sounds to have a productive bait site. Certainly helpful once you find a spot that things work out but definitely not a drop apples opening morning and boom there's your buck sort of deal.
Also, I used to think it was cool to have wolves here, I was on board with the plan of let them get to a certain level then lets manage them. But that level is a moving target now and its clear there are no plans to address that in the near future. I was wrong my initial opinion on the wolves. If we were to manage them and other predators like we should be able to it might be a different story but the way things are, no such thing as a good wolf in this state if they are unchecked much in the way that cats are and G-bears will be.
Post by: bigmacc on July 20, 2021, 06:21:17 PM
The most concentrated I ever saw whitetail was over alfalfa pastures.
I don't think throwing apples and corn on the ground is going to bring several hundred deer into your stand.
Perhaps we should ban any agricultural product which attracts deer. :dunno:
Maybe thats why our boy Bill Gates is buying up all the farm land, you know he says we can make our own food through science, we don't need farm land, AG land and livestock.....The pieces of the puzzle just keep falling into place.
Post by: Bob33 on July 20, 2021, 06:45:19 PM
Would you rather have the Chinese own it?The most concentrated I ever saw whitetail was over alfalfa pastures.
I don't think throwing apples and corn on the ground is going to bring several hundred deer into your stand.
Perhaps we should ban any agricultural product which attracts deer. :dunno:
Maybe thats why our boy Bill Gates is buying up all the farm land, you know he says we can make our own food through science, we don't need farm land, AG land and livestock.....The pieces of the puzzle just keep falling into place.
https://www.ifiberone.com/columbia_basin/foreign-countries-buy-more-local-farmland-newhouse-s-plan-to-prevent-chinese-monopoly-gains-traction/article_d1e10770-e985-11eb-902d-6758cc975178.html
Post by: Special T on July 20, 2021, 07:48:50 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 03, 2021, 12:07:43 PM
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02110-8
Post by: TheStovePipeKid on August 03, 2021, 01:23:28 PM
This will be used.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02110-8
They're really doubling down on this COVID thing. They could ride this out for at least the rest of the decade doing studies and getting grant money.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 12, 2022, 10:45:34 AM
They retained, unedited, the sections calling for banning baiting for deer/elk hunting.
I'd still really like to have one of these authors explain to me how placing a regulated small quantity of bait is going to increase spread of CWD if/when it gets to WA...unless they are also proposing to ban all ag and livestock production in the state :bash:
Post by: Farmer72 on January 12, 2022, 11:22:41 AM
FYI. The CWD plan was finalized. https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/02292
They retained, unedited, the sections calling for banning baiting for deer/elk hunting.
I'd still really like to have one of these authors explain to me how placing a regulated small quantity of bait is going to increase spread of CWD if/when it gets to WA...unless they are also proposing to ban all ag and livestock production in the state :bash:
I was barely able to read it I was laughing to hard at the first sentence in the Executive Summary purpose and goals.
Post by: lokidog on January 12, 2022, 11:25:41 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on January 12, 2022, 12:37:10 PM
And the last item in the report is banning the use of commercial deer urine sales in the state.
I guess I better get to planting apple trees and food plots.
Post by: Special T on January 12, 2022, 12:51:44 PM
Post by: buckfvr on January 12, 2022, 01:23:00 PM
WDFW knows this, and if they dont, they are far too stupid to be on the payroll.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on January 12, 2022, 01:45:07 PM