Post by: Diehard0123 on April 29, 2009, 06:47:09 AM
Post by: CP on April 29, 2009, 07:02:15 AM
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-12-264
Post by: yelp on April 29, 2009, 07:30:24 AM
Many people feed to attract for the purposes of hunting however and this is unethical even if the laws give them ten days. It is using feed to attract for the purposes of grouping and keeping flocks on their property for the sole purpose of harvesting them.
alternatives to feeding are.. Food plots grown with farming practices with the focus of providing habitat for wildlife year round. Food plots that contain forbs that attract insects for turkey poults. Or a field of uncut oats left for wintering wildlife. Its definately a grey area sometimes..especially in the waterfowl areas. :twocents:
Post by: CP on April 29, 2009, 07:44:10 AM
Post by: Intruder on April 29, 2009, 07:59:14 AM
Diehard I agree..Wild birds do not need to be fed they can survive on their own. Some people I know feed out of compassion and spent hundreds of dollars every winter when they don't need to.
Many people feed to attract for the purposes of hunting however and this is unethical even if the laws give them ten days. It is using feed to attract for the purposes of grouping and keeping flocks on their property for the sole purpose of harvesting them.
alternatives to feeding are.. Food plots grown with farming practices with the focus of providing habitat for wildlife year round. Food plots that contain forbs that attract insects for turkey poults. Or a field of uncut oats left for wintering wildlife. Its definately a grey area sometimes..especially in the waterfowl areas. :twocents:
Agree whole heartidly with about 95+% of your take. I do think in some cases supplementing turkeys in the dead of winter can be beneficial... especially during winters like the last 2. In areas were birds have access to cattle operations and feed the birds have fared much better than in other areas. I've talked to 3 land owners who have witnessed turkeys being preyed upon in deep snow over the last 2 winters because they were so weak they could barely fly into the roost. The turkey numbers on these places is way down. I can't help but think that some situational feeding would have been advantageous.
Baiting has no place in Turkey Hunting, period. Be it legal or not.... it isn't ethical. Bear, cats are different ball of wax. Turkeys, deer, elk.... it's BS IMO.
Post by: yelp on April 29, 2009, 08:11:20 AM
There is nothing unethical about feeding wild turkeys or other game birds. What is perceived as ethical varies from person to person based on their beliefs and experiences. Baiting turkeys is legal and accepted practice in many states. Same issue as baiting bears, deer, elk etc. For some reason WA has declared baiting birds and bears to be illegal but baiting deer & elk to be OK. Different rules in ID, TX or AL. That doesn’t make it unethical.
Without pissing off the baiters out there...
I want to go on record that I don't need bait to kill turkeys, elk, deer, bear, ducks, geese, etc.. If you need it to be successful...I feel sorry for ya. (bear baiting has a different argument however). I can't imagine sending my kid to bait pile #3 to harvest Mr. Longbeard..It not hunting the way I learned it. Whatever happened to fair chase? I guess the definition has changed? Both turkeys I got this year were shot on DNR and without bait.
Post by: CP on April 29, 2009, 08:29:02 AM
We are all hunters and we have to be tolerant of each other’s methods whether we agree with them or not, unless those methods are illegal or there is sound biological reasons why they should be changed.
Post by: fishunt247 on April 29, 2009, 08:56:19 AM
I don't think its wrong to call a practice unethical because that just means I won't do it, ever. They are a morally guiding principle that can be seen as personal law I guess.
And I it's not pious to discuss our ethics, its our beliefs and this is a discussion board. :twocents:
Post by: Intruder on April 29, 2009, 09:00:30 AM
I don’t bait turkeys either. But I’m not going to be so bold and pious as to say baiting this animal is OK, baiting that one is bad. When I first moved to this state I was shocked to find that people “hunted” pheasants that were raised in captivity and released the day before the hunt. That’s not exactly “fair chase” the way I learned it, but again, I’m not going to label those that participate in this practice as unethical.I'm not sure it's really being pious to hold yourself to a standard and express your opinion on that standard with others. It's not illegal to ride around on a 4 wheeler (in places where 4 wheelers are allowed) and screech on a crow or woodpecker call and generally be a major pain in the ass to everyone who's really hunting. But, it's certainly unethical, wouldn't you say?
We are all hunters and we have to be tolerant of each other’s methods whether we agree with them or not, unless those methods are illegal or there is sound biological reasons why they should be changed.
There are IMO a lot of legal things in hunting that I don't necessarily think are right or necessary or ethical... as well as some illegal things that shouldn't be. I'm not going to bust someone's chops if they are within the law but it doesn't mean I gotta agree with em, engage in the practice or blindly support it. I do agree with your point about biological reasons playing a primary role in management and rule setting.
And, I would add that released pheasants is a poor use of $, isn't really "fair chase" and isn't really biologically sound but that's another subject.
Post by: clindsayrun on April 29, 2009, 09:04:00 AM
Not to hijack a turkey baiting post, but I don't think you need to bait bears to be successful. Study the bears, learn their natural food sources. Set up on those food sources, and at some point you'll see a bear. If you're worried about shooting a sow, then you need to learn how to better identify a sow.
Isn't it the same as hunting any other animal? Learn their range, their food and water source and scout like crazy. Seems to work fine for most people on Turkey, Deer and Elk.
Post by: jackelope on April 29, 2009, 09:08:57 AM
it's just like western U.S. hunters talking smack about eastern U.S. hunters because they hunt out of treestands a couple hundred yards from the road. it's simply the way things are done back there.
i don't think it's unethical to bait turkeys where it has it's place. personally i don't know why anyone would have to do it or want to do it on multiple levels, but it is what it is. doesn't mean i agree with everything, but don't really want division among hunters either. us hunters have enough problems facing us in the world :twocents:
Post by: turkeydancer on April 29, 2009, 12:29:25 PM
All I really know is that Safeways has banned me for life for blasting the frozen ones out of the freezer ... go figure. LOL
Post by: elkkiller on April 29, 2009, 05:46:49 PM
Why does everyone feel that bear should be an exception to the baiting rules?Have you ever hunted the coast out of Gray's Harbor? Their are spots that a bear could be 10 feet away and you wouldn't be able to see him. Some spots, baiting would be the best choice if legal.
Not to hijack a turkey baiting post, but I don't think you need to bait bears to be successful. Study the bears, learn their natural food sources. Set up on those food sources, and at some point you'll see a bear. If you're worried about shooting a sow, then you need to learn how to better identify a sow.
Isn't it the same as hunting any other animal? Learn their range, their food and water source and scout like crazy. Seems to work fine for most people on Turkey, Deer and Elk.
Post by: MuleySniper on April 29, 2009, 05:58:58 PM
MS
Post by: robb92 on April 29, 2009, 06:19:30 PM
whats right and ethical in some places of this country are not considered ethical in other parts. whats ethical for some is not for others.
it's just like western U.S. hunters talking smack about eastern U.S. hunters because they hunt out of treestands a couple hundred yards from the road. it's simply the way things are done back there.
i don't think it's unethical to bait turkeys where it has it's place. personally i don't know why anyone would have to do it or want to do it on multiple levels, but it is what it is. doesn't mean i agree with everything, but don't really want division among hunters either. us hunters have enough problems facing us in the world :twocents:
Couldn't have said it better!!!!
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on April 29, 2009, 09:02:52 PM
Post by: robodad on April 29, 2009, 09:17:32 PM
There are no baiters/feeders only farmers/butchers. I just wished folks would leave the wild animals wild !! :twocents:
Post by: shoot-em-dead on April 29, 2009, 09:32:12 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on April 29, 2009, 09:45:10 PM
Post by: cohoho on April 30, 2009, 06:41:55 AM
Post by: CP on April 30, 2009, 07:05:09 AM
Confession time; I have shot turkeys over bait and over food plots. I have called to turkeys in the spring pretending to be one of them and shot them out of hiding when they came close. I have even snatched turkeys out of their pens and decapitated them with a hatchet. I see now that all those methods are wrong, unsporting, and unethical.
The only sporting way to hunt turkeys is to sneak up on them in the predawn darkness and shoot them off their roost at first light. True spot and stalk, that’s my method from now on. No one can argue the ethics of the spot and stalk. :hunt2:
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on April 30, 2009, 07:23:19 AM
1. If someone enjoys doing something, they call it ethical.
2. If someone ejoys doing something, and it interferes with someone else doing something they enjoy, that second person will find the first one unethical.
3. The more competition there is for a limited resource, the more unethical other people are perceived to be.
4. #2 - interference includes pissing off third parties (in our case, nonhunters), potentially jeopardizing the future legal status of things we enjoy doing.
5. I am absolutely as judgemental as anyone else when it comes to ethics. Washington is chock full of unethical hunters and fishermen compared to other places where I've lived. The degree of competition for scarce resources seems to be the driver behind the degree of unethical behavior.
Post by: yelp on April 30, 2009, 08:00:32 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on April 30, 2009, 08:07:57 AM
Yeah that argument is an old one in some circles. Comes out of not understanding that removing toms during the spring has little impact on the population....more of a knee jerk argument and unfounded in biological fact.
"
CP also said............The only sporting way to hunt turkeys is to sneak up on them in the predawn darkness and shoot them off their roost at first light. True spot and stalk, that’s my method from now on. No one can argue the ethics of the spot and stalk."
I'm assuming you're trying to be funny....but if not.....I'm sure that you'll make a lot of future friends out there in the turkey woods. :bdid:
Post by: jackelope on April 30, 2009, 11:49:59 AM
Post by: fishunt247 on April 30, 2009, 03:14:07 PM
Post by: CP on April 30, 2009, 03:36:46 PM
I’ll leave you all to determine what you feel is right and wrong.
Post by: Wacenturion on April 30, 2009, 04:15:30 PM
I was just giving this thread one last :stirthepot:
I’ll leave you all to determine what you feel is right and wrong.
Already know....just hope you do....if not I guess I'll give you a pass based on your age and corresponding level of maturity...lol.