Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: Recon on September 16, 2021, 08:50:04 AM
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I have a few questions that some of you with more knowledge may be able to help with. I am new to muzzleloaders, I am shooting the CVA optima with peep sights. I bought a bunch of different types of bullets and powders to try. Barnes tmz 290gr seems to shoot the best for me. When I zeroed this round I was using 2 777 pellets so 100gr. Easily able to hit the 200yard pie plate with this setup. However, I was told by someone that has more experience than me that I should be using 3 pellets of white hots. He said 2 is not enough powder. He also mentioned I should ditch the Barnes and get like an all lead for elk. Should I switch my setup to 3 pellets instead of 2 for elk? Are all copper sabots not good for elk?
Thanks for any insight.
kyle
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Neither of my 2 elk objected to being shot with 110gr T7 powder and Barnes 290 copper bullets.
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What are you using for ignition?
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I have a few questions that some of you with more knowledge may be able to help with. I am new to muzzleloaders, I am shooting the CVA optima with peep sights. I bought a bunch of different types of bullets and powders to try. Barnes tmz 290gr seems to shoot the best for me. When I zeroed this round I was using 2 777 pellets so 100gr. Easily able to hit the 200yard pie plate with this setup. However, I was told by someone that has more experience than me that I should be using 3 pellets of white hots. He said 2 is not enough powder. He also mentioned I should ditch the Barnes and get like an all lead for elk. Should I switch my setup to 3 pellets instead of 2 for elk? Are all copper sabots not good for elk?
Thanks for any insight.
kyle
You're probably looking at 250-300 fps difference between 2 pellets and 3. I don't know what your gun is rated for as far as max charge. Right now I'd guess you're in the neighborhood of 1650-1700 fps with the 2, so you can plug that into a ballistic calculator to get a guess of what your ballistics and energy are out to 200 yards. Another option if you want a little more oomf could be switching to the magnum 777 pellets.
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RWS Musket caps. I use the T7 FFF powder.
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That will kill elk just fine. I wouldn't change a thing if its working. I've used the same or very similar load (same bullets and between 100-120) grains 777 and have killed a handful of bulls in the past 5 or 6 years (one a year). I usually find the bullet under the hide on the far side but did get one pass through.
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RWS Musket caps. I use the T7 FFF powder.
My apologies I was asking the OP what he was using. I never had good luck with pellets and musket caps because the burn was so inconsistent. I’m talking like 8” variance between impacts. My buddy is using my ML and put a 209 conversion on it and it’s shooting the 777 pellets great. Musket cap I had to use the 777 loose.
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RWS Musket caps. I use the T7 FFF powder.
My apologies I was asking the OP what he was using. I never had good luck with pellets and musket caps because the burn was so inconsistent. I’m talking like 8” variance between impacts. My buddy is using my ML and put a 209 conversion on it and it’s shooting the 777 pellets great. Musket cap I had to use the 777 loose.
I also prefer loose but never had all that many ignition issues with 777 pellets. I did have issues with blackhorn.
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What are you using for ignition?
Im using 209 Primers.
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I have a few questions that some of you with more knowledge may be able to help with. I am new to muzzleloaders, I am shooting the CVA optima with peep sights. I bought a bunch of different types of bullets and powders to try. Barnes tmz 290gr seems to shoot the best for me. When I zeroed this round I was using 2 777 pellets so 100gr. Easily able to hit the 200yard pie plate with this setup. However, I was told by someone that has more experience than me that I should be using 3 pellets of white hots. He said 2 is not enough powder. He also mentioned I should ditch the Barnes and get like an all lead for elk. Should I switch my setup to 3 pellets instead of 2 for elk? Are all copper sabots not good for elk?
Thanks for any insight.
kyle
You're probably looking at 250-300 fps difference between 2 pellets and 3. I don't know what your gun is rated for as far as max charge. Right now I'd guess you're in the neighborhood of 1650-1700 fps with the 2, so you can plug that into a ballistic calculator to get a guess of what your ballistics and energy are out to 200 yards. Another option if you want a little more oomf could be switching to the magnum 777 pellets.
You know I did know the exact FPS because I shot through my chrono but of course, I can't find where I wrote it down at.
The rifle is rated for a magnum charge. I believe the book says 150gr pelletized or equivalent. the only reason I didn't want to change is I didn't want to rezero it. But I think maybe I will anyways just to be safe and know.
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Thanks for the responses great info. One other thing I forgot is during zeroing I was told I shouldn't clean but every 4 or so rounds. However, when you do this the rifle is shooting faster every time and I was getting inconsistent groups. Once I started cleaning before every shot I was able to get down to 1" groups at 100yards. Do most of you clean after every shot to establish zero?
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Thanks for the responses great info. One other thing I forgot is during zeroing I was told I shouldn't clean but every 4 or so rounds. However, when you do this the rifle is shooting faster every time and I was getting inconsistent groups. Once I started cleaning before every shot I was able to get down to 1" groups at 100yards. Do most of you clean after every shot to establish zero?
In your scenario I'd zero off of a clean barrel because that's what you'll be hunting with and your first shot is what counts with a muzz. After zeroing then I'd figure out what it does dirty incase of a follow up shot when hunting. My gun holds zero well for 3 or 4 shots dirty but I have friends who get a poi shift after the 1st shot like you are explaining.
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Thanks for the responses great info. One other thing I forgot is during zeroing I was told I shouldn't clean but every 4 or so rounds. However, when you do this the rifle is shooting faster every time and I was getting inconsistent groups. Once I started cleaning before every shot I was able to get down to 1" groups at 100yards. Do most of you clean after every shot to establish zero?
In your scenario I'd zero off of a clean barrel because that's what you'll be hunting with and your first shot is what counts with a muzz. After zeroing then I'd figure out what it does dirty incase of a follow up shot when hunting. My gun holds zero well for 3 or 4 shots dirty but I have friends who get a poi shift after the 1st shot like you are explaining.
Cool thanks I think that makes the most sense too. I mean the poi isn’t horrible but the group at a 100 yards opens up to 3-5” by the 4th shot. Good point about tracking follow up shots in case one is required at least the. I can Kentucky windage it.
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That Barnes is a great bullet. Our 3 bulls in the last two years all agree they do a great job infront of 110gr of pyrodex loose powder.
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I don’t know if I shared this before here. 290 grain Barnes tez
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I've got a few Barnes bullets like that. Including the one in my avatar.
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My setup:
110Gr loose 777 powder
LeHigh Defense controlled fracture 265gr
MMP Sabots
My cow two years ago dropped in her tracks
My bull last year made it to a ditch about 30 yards away and then he fell.
Both had injuries to all thoracic organs. These bullets are downright devastating.
I have never had problems with loose powder. I've had several issues with pellets.
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My setup:
110Gr loose 777 powder
LeHigh Defense controlled fracture 265gr
MMP Sabots
And that is a very good load, bullet, accurate, and will thump the heck out of an animal!
Not quite the same load as yours but equal results!
(https://i.postimg.cc/7LGFwhDY/265-Misc-Pics.jpg)
My cow two years ago dropped in her tracks
My bull last year made it to a ditch about 30 yards away and then he fell.
Both had injuries to all thoracic organs. These bullets are downright devastating.
I have never had problems with loose powder. I've had several issues with pellets.
I tried pellets for awhile... a short while but have always been more than satisfied with good old volume loads of loose powder - either T7 or BH
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My setup:
110Gr loose 777 powder
LeHigh Defense controlled fracture 265gr
MMP Sabots
And that is a very good load, bullet, accurate, and will thump the heck out of an animal!
Not quite the same load as yours but equal results!
(https://i.postimg.cc/7LGFwhDY/265-Misc-Pics.jpg)
My cow two years ago dropped in her tracks
My bull last year made it to a ditch about 30 yards away and then he fell.
Both had injuries to all thoracic organs. These bullets are downright devastating.
I have never had problems with loose powder. I've had several issues with pellets.
I tried pellets for awhile... a short while but have always been more than satisfied with good old volume loads of loose powder - either T7 or BH
I'd hope you'd say that considering you're the one I learned it from! :chuckle:
:kneel: