Post by: Wetwoodshunter on November 18, 2021, 05:48:30 AM
I'm making a move to the dry side of the state. My current lab is not up to the task of hunting (12 years young) and I was thinking about getting another companion when he passes on. What are some good breeds to look at for a family/hunting dog?
I anticipate hunting pheasant, quail, ducks and geese so water affinity would be good. This dog would also be spoiled and be a full member of my family sleeping on my couch, rolling in the mud with his mancub (my son is currently 3), you know that good dog life. My new place is 20 acres with lots of room to run.
Breeds I have been considering are Tollers, golden retrievers, and black labs. I prefer dogs with softer hair, I am fine with excess shedding and maintenence.
Post by: metlhead on November 18, 2021, 06:00:00 AM
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on November 18, 2021, 06:04:16 AM
Are you set on the the retriever breeds? 20 acres is plenty of room for versatile breeds such as a wirehair.
I am not set at all on a retriever breed. I am so new to upland I don't even know where to start. My only big criteria is the dogs temperament must be family oriented too.
Post by: 2MANY on November 18, 2021, 06:05:07 AM
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on November 18, 2021, 06:08:50 AM
Get a Chessie and never look back.
My soon to be upland mentor has a Chessie. I will be able to see one in action in the next few months.
Post by: Dhoey07 on November 18, 2021, 07:20:03 AM
Post by: Shannon on November 18, 2021, 07:27:06 AM
Post by: 2MANY on November 18, 2021, 07:39:24 AM
Get a Chessie and never look back.
My soon to be upland mentor has a Chessie. I will be able to see one in action in the next few months.
Loyal, protective, best retriever, upland, waterfowl, and family.
The End.
Post by: greenhead_killer on November 18, 2021, 07:56:36 AM
Post by: mcrawfordaf on November 18, 2021, 09:12:17 AM
We landed on a GSP having found a good bloodline up in Bonners Ferry.
Post by: rasbo on November 18, 2021, 09:13:12 AM
We just got a wirehaired pointing griffon this early fall. Def a handful right now but should pay off in the long run. Versatile and family/kid friendly dogs. Just crazy high motor but having 20 acres will help burn that off!got a griffon pup right now,a rat on acid,lol love this lil guy.
Post by: 2MANY on November 18, 2021, 09:43:18 AM
I'm new to upland and dog training but I was recommended any breed from the NAVHDA recognized list. https://www.navhda.org/recognized-breeds/
We landed on a GSP having found a good bloodline up in Bonners Ferry.
If you want a pointer this is a great idea.
Post by: Smokeploe on November 18, 2021, 10:34:57 AM
Good luck
Smokeploe
Post by: 10mmg on November 18, 2021, 10:46:27 AM
Regardless of breed get em some solid training and bird exposure early and often.
Post by: RobinHoodlum on November 18, 2021, 11:21:55 AM
Another griffon owner. In our 3rd hunting season and very happy with her field work on both upland and waterfowl. Even as a pup, ours has always had a solid "off switch" in the house. Always friendly and playful with people and dogs.
As others have indicated, there a lot of great breeds to choose from. If you can get out and see some of them hunting, training, or testing you'll learn a lot from both dog and owner.
Feel free to pm me if you want more specifics about our experience with this breed
Post by: Big6bull on November 18, 2021, 11:47:43 AM
Post by: Special T on November 18, 2021, 11:51:47 AM
Not super common in the PNW so you would likely have to search hard for a litter. I know of a couple that are planned for after season. I have hunted the release site with his 2 GWP after the feild has been marched with6 labs and 8 shooters. We kicked up and killed 2 birds5 min after they were gone. Drathars are the German registration.
Additionally I have a friend in AK that waterfowl, permanent, and snow shoe hair hunts with his.
Post by: follow maggie on November 18, 2021, 12:29:41 PM
Bottom line- there are a lot of great dog breeds. The key with any of them is time on birds. And match their strengths with how you like to hunt.
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on November 18, 2021, 12:51:44 PM
Post by: Rutnbuxnbulls on November 18, 2021, 01:55:44 PM
Post by: Gettin Birdie on November 18, 2021, 03:28:27 PM
Post by: shootem on November 21, 2021, 08:44:19 PM
Post by: limpy4 on November 27, 2021, 06:14:00 PM
They can do everything a lab can do. For upland hunting their noses have got to be the best, they amaze me every hunting trip.
Post by: Lady Grouse hunter on January 13, 2022, 11:24:03 PM
In this area state too many "typical" breeds here...
The Small Munsterlander & Irish RED setter will doo the job. One must NOT be a couch/internet addictive person.. though...
Are You looking for a POINTER or A Flusher ( if wanting a flusher, you'd better be ready to RUN!)
Post by: GWP on January 14, 2022, 01:02:04 AM
We have owned (own one now) and trained GWP’s, but there are traits that won’t work for everybody. They ‘generally’ are fanatical hunters of fur or feather with no quit, injured or not, and if it happens to be in the water, even better.
Without consistent training (never really stops) they have been known to kill cats, or any fur critter, and once they get into that mode it can be difficult to break them of it.
I have wanted to try a ‘Pointing Lab’, and have hunted with people that had them. Pretty sure any Lab would be a good upland dog with training, but most only use them for waterfowl, and train that way.
Best of luck!
Post by: C-Money on January 14, 2022, 07:24:54 AM
Post by: UplandSetter on January 14, 2022, 09:52:40 AM
I'm an English setter guy personally and wouldn't be able to sleep if I didn't give them a plug though. Definitely an upland specific breed but they're great dogs. My setter is old school though and doesn't retrieve worth a lick ;D
Post by: 2MANY on January 14, 2022, 10:45:48 AM
I got my first Chessy at the age of 16. On my 4th now. All have been great upland dogs. My current pup is 2yo, and she started dove hunting this past season. Mine have just seemed understand the task. Had a lot of great hunts behind a brillo butt...
X2
On my 4th as well.
Post by: birddogdad on January 14, 2022, 02:08:25 PM
Post by: Lady Grouse hunter on January 17, 2022, 12:03:03 PM
Setters have a coat that does NOT STINK!!!
Wirehairs, Griffon's, Labs, Chessie's, Boykins ALL STINK will Ruin ones Couch, Carpets, :yike:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 17, 2022, 12:12:35 PM
Post by: metlhead on January 17, 2022, 12:28:12 PM
Post by: C-Money on January 17, 2022, 12:32:44 PM
Post by: rainshadow1 on January 17, 2022, 02:17:15 PM
I just have a hard time putting any gun dog ahead of a Lab!
Post by: kselkhunter on January 17, 2022, 02:54:30 PM
My advice is get two!
Post by: Lady Grouse hunter on January 18, 2022, 01:42:00 AM
BUT This Original poster was just asking ("What breed do YOU all recommend for upland birds?)
Stay on-topic people! :bash:
Post by: Lady Grouse hunter on January 18, 2022, 01:44:07 AM
Post by: metlhead on January 18, 2022, 05:36:50 AM
Post by: tank21 on January 18, 2022, 07:41:22 AM
Look at the Pudelpointer. I have had three and probably will never own a different hunting breed. They have the temperament of labs, love the water, and point upland birds. They are the best of both worlds. I use to be a lab guy but I don't see myself ever owning another one.
HERE HERE. Pudelpointer. 100% I have a pointing lab and a PP. Should've got the PP first.
Post by: J-Bone on January 27, 2022, 10:46:03 PM
No matter what people say, IMO no dog is truly 50/50 waterfowl or upland. And if they are, you hit the lotto. A couple of things you should figure out
1 - is your priority waterfowl or upland?
2 - what size?
3 - what type of coat?
4 - do you want a dog to point instinctually.
5 - what range do you want to hunt at?
6 - what weather will you hunt at?
Also, narrow breeds down based upon breeders close to you. All breeds have variance among them, best thing you can do to zero in on the personality and skills of your dog is hang out with the breeders dogs as much as possible. if they don't allow it, that's a red flag and move on. Another thing I would look for is a personable breeder that will answer all your questions before and after you bring the pup home. some breeders/trainers are really bizarre.
I have a griff. He has an off switch, until new people come over to the house. then he gets a bit jumpy and annoying. Nothing horrible. if the new people aren't dog people, I just crate him. otherwise he sleeps and lounges all the time, has great recall, and an instinctual hunter. He won't stay super still in a duck blind, but he'll retrieve anything, wherever. Nothing against Griffs, but I reckon when it is time to get another one I'll go Small Munsterlander or a Drentsche Patrijshond just bc I want to try something new.
Post by: mcrawfordaf on January 28, 2022, 12:28:33 PM
Buy Craig koshyk's pointing dog book called "the continentals" will everything you want to know.
No matter what people say, IMO no dog is truly 50/50 waterfowl or upland. And if they are, you hit the lotto. A couple of things you should figure out
1 - is your priority waterfowl or upland?
2 - what size?
3 - what type of coat?
4 - do you want a dog to point instinctually.
5 - what range do you want to hunt at?
6 - what weather will you hunt at?
Also, narrow breeds down based upon breeders close to you. All breeds have variance among them, best thing you can do to zero in on the personality and skills of your dog is hang out with the breeders dogs as much as possible. if they don't allow it, that's a red flag and move on. Another thing I would look for is a personable breeder that will answer all your questions before and after you bring the pup home. some breeders/trainers are really bizarre.
I have a griff. He has an off switch, until new people come over to the house. then he gets a bit jumpy and annoying. Nothing horrible. if the new people aren't dog people, I just crate him. otherwise he sleeps and lounges all the time, has great recall, and an instinctual hunter. He won't stay super still in a duck blind, but he'll retrieve anything, wherever. Nothing against Griffs, but I reckon when it is time to get another one I'll go Small Munsterlander or a Drentsche Patrijshond just bc I want to try something new.
Agree to disagree but the GSP can and DOES excel at both Waterfowl and Upland hunting. Versatility being the exact objective they were bred for.
https://projectupland.com/hunting-dogs/german-shorthaired-pointers-for-waterfowl-hunting/#:~:text=The%20GSPs%20were%20bred%20to,when%20they%20have%20a%20job.
Any dog from this https://www.navhda.org/recognized-breeds/ list would perform ideally at both tasks. And if trained to NAVDHA standards would go even further.
The sire of my pup retrieves limits of green heads every year in N Idaho.
Post by: MeepDog on January 28, 2022, 02:05:27 PM
Post by: 2MANY on January 28, 2022, 05:03:02 PM
Post by: builtfordtough on January 28, 2022, 06:31:49 PM
Post by: huntnfmly on January 28, 2022, 08:33:00 PM
Interesting thread for me for sure. I finally agreed to get another dog (my springer passed 2.5 yrs ago) kids and wife been talking hard about a new puppy for some time now. I told her, dog has to be able to hunt and I'd like a female. Like the OP, she will be a spoiled dog that hopefully my son and I can do some upland bird hunting. Can't remember the breeders name but its outta chelan. we are getting a English cream retriever. Her parents are all top show. Get to bring her home around first of April
Congrats on the new pup
Post by: J-Bone on January 28, 2022, 11:18:24 PM
Buy Craig koshyk's pointing dog book called "the continentals" will everything you want to know.
No matter what people say, IMO no dog is truly 50/50 waterfowl or upland. And if they are, you hit the lotto. A couple of things you should figure out
1 - is your priority waterfowl or upland?
2 - what size?
3 - what type of coat?
4 - do you want a dog to point instinctually.
5 - what range do you want to hunt at?
6 - what weather will you hunt at?
Also, narrow breeds down based upon breeders close to you. All breeds have variance among them, best thing you can do to zero in on the personality and skills of your dog is hang out with the breeders dogs as much as possible. if they don't allow it, that's a red flag and move on. Another thing I would look for is a personable breeder that will answer all your questions before and after you bring the pup home. some breeders/trainers are really bizarre.
I have a griff. He has an off switch, until new people come over to the house. then he gets a bit jumpy and annoying. Nothing horrible. if the new people aren't dog people, I just crate him. otherwise he sleeps and lounges all the time, has great recall, and an instinctual hunter. He won't stay super still in a duck blind, but he'll retrieve anything, wherever. Nothing against Griffs, but I reckon when it is time to get another one I'll go Small Munsterlander or a Drentsche Patrijshond just bc I want to try something new.
Agree to disagree but the GSP can and DOES excel at both Waterfowl and Upland hunting. Versatility being the exact objective they were bred for.
https://projectupland.com/hunting-dogs/german-shorthaired-pointers-for-waterfowl-hunting/#:~:text=The%20GSPs%20were%20bred%20to,when%20they%20have%20a%20job.
Any dog from this https://www.navhda.org/recognized-breeds/ list would perform ideally at both tasks. And if trained to NAVDHA standards would go even further.
The sire of my pup retrieves limits of green heads every year in N Idaho.
I think there is a difference to being a versatile dog and excelling equally at upland and water which is the point i'm making. I agree GSPs are a versatile dog, but I don't think they are equally skilled at both water and upland. Example, GSPs dominate upland field trials, that is absolutely not the case for water. Their chest shape + long legs also impacts their ability to swim. Of course there are exceptions to this rule, but how do you know if you are buying an exception.
So if you favor upland and want a dog you can take water duck hunting every now and then (aka versatile dog) buy a pointer of whatever variety suits. If the inverse is true, buy a retriever.
I've seen border collies point and a dachshund sniff grouse. Point is basically any dog can do anything, but I'm feeling really good about my chances of a lab retrieving ducks and a GSP pointing birds. Your chances of getting a lab to point and a GSP to crush waterfowl go down.
Post by: mcrawfordaf on January 31, 2022, 08:44:54 AM
Buy Craig koshyk's pointing dog book called "the continentals" will everything you want to know.
No matter what people say, IMO no dog is truly 50/50 waterfowl or upland. And if they are, you hit the lotto. A couple of things you should figure out
1 - is your priority waterfowl or upland?
2 - what size?
3 - what type of coat?
4 - do you want a dog to point instinctually.
5 - what range do you want to hunt at?
6 - what weather will you hunt at?
Also, narrow breeds down based upon breeders close to you. All breeds have variance among them, best thing you can do to zero in on the personality and skills of your dog is hang out with the breeders dogs as much as possible. if they don't allow it, that's a red flag and move on. Another thing I would look for is a personable breeder that will answer all your questions before and after you bring the pup home. some breeders/trainers are really bizarre.
I have a griff. He has an off switch, until new people come over to the house. then he gets a bit jumpy and annoying. Nothing horrible. if the new people aren't dog people, I just crate him. otherwise he sleeps and lounges all the time, has great recall, and an instinctual hunter. He won't stay super still in a duck blind, but he'll retrieve anything, wherever. Nothing against Griffs, but I reckon when it is time to get another one I'll go Small Munsterlander or a Drentsche Patrijshond just bc I want to try something new.
Agree to disagree but the GSP can and DOES excel at both Waterfowl and Upland hunting. Versatility being the exact objective they were bred for.
https://projectupland.com/hunting-dogs/german-shorthaired-pointers-for-waterfowl-hunting/#:~:text=The%20GSPs%20were%20bred%20to,when%20they%20have%20a%20job.
Any dog from this https://www.navhda.org/recognized-breeds/ list would perform ideally at both tasks. And if trained to NAVDHA standards would go even further.
The sire of my pup retrieves limits of green heads every year in N Idaho.
I think there is a difference to being a versatile dog and excelling equally at upland and water which is the point i'm making. I agree GSPs are a versatile dog, but I don't think they are equally skilled at both water and upland. Example, GSPs dominate upland field trials, that is absolutely not the case for water. Their chest shape + long legs also impacts their ability to swim. Of course there are exceptions to this rule, but how do you know if you are buying an exception.
So if you favor upland and want a dog you can take water duck hunting every now and then (aka versatile dog) buy a pointer of whatever variety suits. If the inverse is true, buy a retriever.
I've seen border collies point and a dachshund sniff grouse. Point is basically any dog can do anything, but I'm feeling really good about my chances of a lab retrieving ducks and a GSP pointing birds. Your chances of getting a lab to point and a GSP to crush waterfowl go down.
Yeah definitely agree with ya there.
Post by: 2MANY on January 31, 2022, 10:31:40 AM
You hunt upland cover that the birds will hold in BUT isn't so thick that them thin skin stubby tails won't hunt it for hours and hours.
Not to mention a pointing dog in heavy cover is like a ghost unless of course you run them new fangled electronic tracking gadgets.
Pointers are great if you limit yourself to the perfect pointer cover.
Post by: Shannon on January 31, 2022, 10:57:12 AM
Post by: metlhead on January 31, 2022, 11:11:01 AM
Post by: 2MANY on January 31, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
Just going by what I've seen during my lifetime.
*****Results may not be indicative of your personal experiences or future*****
Post by: bigdub257 on January 31, 2022, 01:16:57 PM
I completely disagree with 2MANY. There is a reason pointers are called upland specialist. The average well bred pointer will do better than the average retriever for upland bird hunting. I’ve had pointers that would go into any cover to look for birds. A good pointer will hunt any cover as hard as any retriever ever will. Retrievers have the edge over pointers in waterfowl hunting especially in cold weather but saying you have to limit where you upland hunt with pointers is a joke.I disagree also. I've had lots of pointers over the years. Switched from GSP to GWP about 12 years ago. My current GWP female who weighs about 60 pounds will bust the heaviest brush all day long. Some of the birds will flush in cattails although she is an excellent pointer. Retrieves birds on land and water like crazy and is an excellent house dog who is pretty spoiled. Retrieved over 25 ducks and a goose from the Columbia over the weekend in 20 degree temps. Hunted with my buddy and his male lab one day and really didn't notice any difference between the dogs except the lab can swim a bit faster. She also sits in the blind and behaves amazingly well. It's almost comical how still and serious she is in the duck blind.
Post by: 2MANY on January 31, 2022, 01:54:59 PM
IMHO
Post by: 509 on January 31, 2022, 09:04:03 PM
Buy Craig koshyk's pointing dog book called "the continentals" will everything you want to know.
No matter what people say, IMO no dog is truly 50/50 waterfowl or upland. And if they are, you hit the lotto. A couple of things you should figure out
I have had two labs and two German Longhair Pointers.
The Labs were great family dogs.
The German Longhair Pointers out-hunted the labs both on upland and waterfowl by a significant margin. Their hunting drive was just light years ahead of the Labs.
BUT, they were definitely not the family dogs that the Labs were. They are ONE PERSON dogs.